stan the man

i saw this and thought you all might put your two cents in on it



The Economist has suggested that SARS could be China's Chernobyl. When the Soviet nuclear reactor exploded in 1986, it accelerated glasnost and perestroika. Three years later, the Soviet Union collapsed. The Economist asks: can a SARS chain-reaction lead to reforms in China? They remind us that the events of the last few days have been momentous, and write

"The Chinese government has been forced to admit that it has been lying, understating the number of SARS cases in Beijing more than tenfold. And the Chinese health minister made history when he was forced to resign the first minister since the Communists seized power in 1949 to be sacked mid-crisis on a policy matter."

Lebell

Dunno.

The Chinese have been their usual calculating selves throughout the last 20 years or so. The lessons of the collapse of the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe were not lost on them. They've slowly been introducing western style capitalism while keeping a very tight lid on protest and dissent. Any thing that even remotely threatens the Party is dealt with harshly (e.g. Falun Gong). I think it would be great if it happened, but I don't think it will.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

Liquor Dealer

I agree with Lebell - I think they have pretty well covered their butts in most instances - I think North Korea could have a bigger effect on them that SARS.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

The_Dude

na, i dont think the CCP is going out of power anytime soon.

they're in it too deep to be rooted out.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Lebell

The CCCP was the USSR, not China. You want PRC.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

The_Dude

no, russia it was CPSU (communist part of the soviet union)

china, it's chinese communist party (ccp)

we're studying this in class right now about china.

PRC is the offical name of the country, people's republic of china.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Lebell

My mistake.

I thought your were talking about the CCCP which is a rough english representation of the Crylic translation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

The_Dude

i know what you're talking about, that's what it says on the soviet stamps.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

james t kirk

Well, the funny thing about SARS is it can pop up and bite you in the ass pretty easily.

Toronto has been turned into an international leper colony it would seem.

People travel, disease spreads.

If it can come to Toronto, it can come to New York.

But at least your doctors won't miss it (i hope) when they get some guy coming in with the symptoms. Assuming he hasn't already infected 20 people.

KillerYoda

Supposedly SARS might fuck up the Canadian healthcare system more, according to the news. The, I guess, socialist system they running gave them poor response time to the epidemic.

__________________
"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

james t kirk

If you had a clue of what you were talking about you would be dangerous.

At the peak, there were 200 and some odd people in Toronto with SARS or suspected of having SARS. The number is now less than 100.

I think our system can handle 100 or 200 sick people.


Re poor response time:

One old lady who was 78 came back from Hong Kong with it. She went home, infected her son. She gets sick, they take her to the hospital.

Meanwhile the son infects 22 other people, then they take him to the hospital.

They both end up dying.

Now in Vancouver, there was one guy who came back from Hong Kong and they caught him right off the bat.

The toronto instance was unfortunate that they didn't catch the old lady in time, but that's the bad luck of the draw.

American phobia of a national health care system stems from what you have been lead to believe by private insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals who dont' want to end the gravy train.

Keep in mind that every other G-7 nation has a national health care system. Only the USA does not.

You will be hard pressed to find too many Canadians who would trade our system for yours.

KillerYoda

Whoa now, I was just stating what the news said. And I said "I guess" because I <i>really</i> don't know how the Canadian healthcare system works. So before you attack the US healthcare system, let me just clear up, I wasn't attacking yours.

__________________
"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

james t kirk

No problem.

As one who has lived in the USA before i will give you the overview of how it works / doesn't

The doctors and hospitals are paid by the gov't.

The provinces all run their own programs with money received from the Federal gov't and their own taxes. Employers have to pay health care premiums also. (I think in Alberta, people have to pay a certain premium, i dunno for sure)

Everyone gets a health card, looks just like a driver's licence only it's green instead of blue.

You go to the doctor, you give them your card, you get the treatment - that's that's all. You don't pay anything ever for any medical anything, except for plastic surgery, etc. Though if you have a big nose, or a disfigurement, then plastic surgery is covered.

There are certain set amounts that the gov't pays the doctors for certain work.

Doctors still make an excellent living, albeit, probably not as good as the US. BUt, they don't have to worry about being a business, or having accountants, etc. I am not sure how the malpractice thing works to be honest. Doctors are free to be doctors.

The draw backs are that sometimes you have to wait for a certain proceedure if it is not life threatening. For example, a hip replacement, you may (or may not) have to wait a year.

The big bitch that i hear about is wait times. But wait times are part of medicine and no-one who NEEDS treatment has to wait.

The other problem is that modern medicine is getting expensive, so there are always more and more demands for more money. The money has to come from somewhere.

The bonus is that you are never denied medical treatment, you don't have to mortgage your house for a bypass surgery. And you can never have your premiums hiked ever (since there are none)

No-one goes without health care ever. It's the law of the land.

Given the size of the USA, there is no reason why the US couldn't set up a similar system, but, I don't see that happening.

KillerYoda

Thanks for the overview kirk. Do you guys get like a paid-stay at a spa too or something? I read somewhere about one of the nations (maybe the Swiss) who had the same healthcare system and government run spas were one of the benefits.

__________________
"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

The_Dude

heard toronto got the warning lifted by the world health org.


i dont think such a big national scale system would be good. w/o competition, there is no need for improvement.

i think a mixture of govt and private healthcare co-existing would be nice.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

james t kirk

I wish....

Employers often times have health benefit packages that include things like private rooms at the hospitals instead of semi private, or massage therapy, or marital conciling, etc.

I just wish that they had a program that would give you visits to our more erotic massage parlours. It is after all beneficial to one's health.

Yes, the WHO lifted their warning on visiting toronto. Thanks, but something tells me it will be months before the leper colony feeling has gone away.

And that assumes there are no more outbreaks of SARS. Hasn't been a new case in 20 days apparently.

Problem is people come and go every day from Asia.

KillerYoda

Shit, if that happened, it'd be good bye red, white and blue, and hello maple leaf.
<img src="http://conference.inria.fr/MS4CMS/Icon/Canada-flag.gif">

__________________
"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

MSD

Reading the title, I assumed that it would be about the origin of SARS. I personally believe that virus is an escaped bioweapon. It' based on the common cold, it can easily put a city on hold for weeks, it affects humans and animals exactly the same way, and it originated in an area where terrorist groups exist along with Chinese research facilities. That's a recipe for disaster. I'll dig up the source articles for that stuff tomorrow.

Dr Evil

I bet there are a few alkaida guys wanting to cach this desease and make a quick trip to the USA

Chug

I don 'thtink the SARS situation in China will be as big as disasterious as Chernobyl. But as stated before, the situation as pointed out some of the problems that exists in the Chinese goverment (i.e. the understating of SARS cases). China will probably have some reforms in the government get stronger as their stand point globally stregthens through globization.