Eight marines charged with Iraq murder - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lebell · 10-19-2003, 07:34 PM

First, everyone needs to calm down, because no one is listening anymore when tempers ignite and the name calling starts.

Well that has to stop before something unfortunate happens, because some of you have recieved warnings about this before.

So please, less "You liberals" and "You conservatives".

Second, I see a couple of issues that have been mixed together:

-Did the troops recieve proper training?

-If not, what is the root cause and can it be linked to current DOD policy?

-And is one side of the spectrum using this to make political hay?

Food Eater Lad · 10-19-2003, 07:56 PM

I still say keep in mind that all this is comming from their defence lawyers.

filtherton · 10-19-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

But lets assume they didn't get the training, just for fun. Do you really think they didn't get the training budget because of Rumsfeld, or more likely because someone screwed up and they got out of it?

In my above post you may notice that i didn't say anything about rumsfeld other than the fact that i didn't know if it could be linked to him. Clearly someone has fucked up.

Quote:

Boy, you are touchy, just because I see your agument differently they you do, doesn't mean I am wrong. I think the most important thing you said was According to their lawyer which I pointed out as questionable. The lawyer said they didn't get the right training, which in terms of debate means nothing. Now if it turns out they didn't get the training then we can talk about it, but debating the merits of a case based on the words of a defense lawyer is futile. Have you ever heard a lawyer say 'Its all my clients fault, I don't know what got into them.' or the like?

It depends on how you look at it. I know we can't necessarily trust lawyers, but that doesn't mean they always lie. Half empty v. half full. Call me naive, but i don't have a hard time believing that these folks were undertrained.

debaser · 10-20-2003, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by debaser
As reservists they went through the exact same basic training as every other member of their branch of the armed forces (in this case Marines). They recieved the training.

The responsibility for this act rests on the individuals and their immediate commanders.

onetime2 · 10-20-2003, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Astrocloud
Strange how the thread has been jacked from about some soldiers in Iraq -to a Straw Man argument about "What Liberals think".

I would love to speak up but the quality of conversation just isn't to par with what certain people claim their IQ to be.

Can it really be considered highjacking the thread when the person that starts it changes it to talk about our troops living in poverty? I think not. You may not agree with the message but I'm replying to what was already posted by the thread starter. Perhaps if the original poster stayed on topic then the thread would stay on target. Nah, that can't be it.

onetime2 · 10-20-2003, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
Oh, one more thing. edit by rogue49 My dad was a Master Tank Gunner in the army, I have an uncle that died from a land mine in Korea, and I have ALWAYS supported the troops on the ground. I don't support the war, but I support the troops. I am not a "they" I am a "me" with my own opinions and thoughts.

The Bush Administration has asked more of this military while treating the troops like crap, cutting troop pay, extending their tour of duty, and generally showing a lot of contempt for an all-volunteer, mostly-poor, mostly-minority army. I can care about the troops while thinking the policy of the administration towards the troops and the war is wrong.

edited by rogue49

You portend to speak for the liberal side, I commented about the new liberal strategy that they've been extolling over the last year or so, if you don't like it too damn bad. You choose to insult me personally, I didn't insult you. Just like you I have an opinion. If you can't hack it without resorting to name calling then you need help. You know nothing about me yet want to label me a bigot and a troll. Your family history in the military has nothing to do with the discussion. I too have quite a few family members in the military, I have also spent time under military command.

That's all I have to say to you. Good luck to you in life.

rogue49 · 10-20-2003, 05:05 AM

Keep your comments under control,
and your passions in check

Last Warning

seretogis · 10-20-2003, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue49
Keep your comments under control,
and your passions in check

Last Warning

I like grape jelly. *drool*

filtherton · 10-20-2003, 09:13 AM

Quote:

As reservists they went through the exact same basic training as every other member of their branch of the armed forces (in this case Marines). They recieved the training.

No offense, but why should i trust the mighty debaser any more than some random defense lawyer? I know you aren't claiming that you have definite direct knowledge of the training these particular reservists undertook.

Ustwo · 10-20-2003, 09:56 AM

Maybe because debaser isn't paid to lie

debaser · 10-20-2003, 02:03 PM

Because I am currently in the military, and I know what the required training is to make it out of Basic Training/Boot Camp. If these people were Marines, then I assure you they had that training, as does every enlisted member of every branch. Officers have absolutely no excuse, since a large portion of their initial training consists of ethics and LOLW.

filtherton · 10-20-2003, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Maybe because debaser isn't paid to lie

Maybe, maybe not. You aren't really in any postition to comment on that. Maybe he is one of those people who makes statements of fact without really having any basis for them. I don't know debaser from my uncle at this point.
Based on his above post i believe that he knows what he is talking about on this matter.

So yeah, if these soldiers did what they are accused of them they will get what they deserve.

Ustwo · 10-20-2003, 08:15 PM

I'll take the odds.

I KNOW defense laywers lie.

I am not SURE if debaser lies.

So the smart money is on debaser

10-19-2003, 07:34 PM	#41 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	First, everyone needs to calm down, because no one is listening anymore when tempers ignite and the name calling starts. Well that has to stop before something unfortunate happens, because some of you have recieved warnings about this before. So please, less "You liberals" and "You conservatives". Second, I see a couple of issues that have been mixed together: -Did the troops recieve proper training? -If not, what is the root cause and can it be linked to current DOD policy? -And is one side of the spectrum using this to make political hay? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! Last edited by rogue49; 10-20-2003 at 04:43 AM..

10-20-2003, 09:56 AM	#50 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Maybe because debaser isn't paid to lie __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-20-2003, 02:03 PM	#51 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	Because I am currently in the military, and I know what the required training is to make it out of Basic Training/Boot Camp. If these people were Marines, then I assure you they had that training, as does every enlisted member of every branch. Officers have absolutely no excuse, since a large portion of their initial training consists of ethics and LOLW. __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

10-20-2003, 08:15 PM	#53 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I'll take the odds. I KNOW defense laywers lie. I am not SURE if debaser lies. So the smart money is on debaser __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-19-2003, 07:56 PM	#42 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	I still say keep in mind that all this is comming from their defence lawyers.

10-20-2003, 05:05 AM	#47 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	Keep your comments under control, and your passions in check Last Warning