Davis OUT : Schwarzenegger IN :( - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-07-2003, 09:30 PM

From what it sounds like Davis had a piss poor grip on how to handle the economy shipping out jobs and raising taxs on business doesn't encourage growth...

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-07-2003, 09:39 PM

You know what else is funny, apperently Bustamante is going to be on Arnold's staff as his Lt. Gov (not by choice obviously), is there anyway that Arnold could get rid of him?

MuadDib · 10-07-2003, 09:50 PM

I don't know. Davis gets no love from me, but still I see the Cali economy as the legislatures failure and beyond that I still can't see a bad economy as a reason for recalling an official. Hell, the economy of this country has sucked for over a year but we aren't recalling Bush.

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-07-2003, 09:57 PM

Sadly nothing will get done because of the legislature, despite Ahhnold's economic staff which could help the situation, the Dems will cock block.

The_Dude · 10-07-2003, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Sadly nothing will get done because of the legislature, despite Ahhnold's economic staff which could help the situation, the Dems will cock block.

by economic staff, u mean warren buffet, right?

MuadDib · 10-07-2003, 10:01 PM

I don't know. He's a moderate and he has Buffet's support and chair of the California Women's League. Partisanism isn't as overblown as a lot of the press would have you believe. Its mostly just of the war and exacerbated by the upcoming elections and the democratic primaries. Most legislation still passes without a hitch except pretty extreme stuff.

seretogis · 10-07-2003, 10:19 PM

Davis had a 28% approval rating, and yet the recall process is somehow being misused?

WHAT?!

How low of an approval rating does someone need to justify being recalled? Perhaps 5% approval rating if it's a Democrat in office, and 49% if it's a Republican?

If Schwarzenegger wins, he has won legitimately. For Democrats to organize a recall of him with absolutely no reason other than "waah, he booted our buddy out of office" will be misuse of the recall process.

Phaenx · 10-07-2003, 10:27 PM

They won't recall him because they spent all that time bitching over it in the first place. They'll look silly if they started one.

What they'll do is have the ACLU and people file lawsuits about hanging chads and disenfranchised voters. They'll still look silly but whatever.

Halx · 10-07-2003, 10:42 PM

Assuming every vote against the recall is a vote for Davis...

Davis currently has 46% of the votes
Arnold has only about 27%

go figure.

Macheath · 10-07-2003, 10:52 PM

Can any Californian tell me whether media speculation about the winner started before all of the polling places closed.

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-07-2003, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
Assuming every vote against the recall is a vote for Davis...

Davis currently has 46% of the votes
Arnold has only about 27%

go figure.

Dirty republicans stole another one from you dems!!! hahaha slowly its all coming together and the world will be ours muahahahaha!!!

Seriously though, Davis really only has Bustamante to thank for his defeat as far as this scenario goes.

Halx · 10-07-2003, 11:44 PM

I never said I was a dem
granted, I'm registered to vote as a dem
however, I registered years ago when clinton actually made them look good

I just want a good man in the office right now
I wanted only to bring attention to the percentages involved and have all of you people make your own decisions based on them.

ARTelevision · 10-07-2003, 11:57 PM

Californians voted for change.
They voted for a strong person because they wanted a strong change.
Good luck to a place I called home for one of the decades of my life!

Mitzkrieg · 10-08-2003, 12:01 AM

hal, you put the wrong spin on that percentage figure of yours. you're not considering the fact that there are other candidates. now, if Arnold was the ONLY candidate running for the recall, then you could spin it that way.

look at it this way. after 75% of the precincts reported in, 2,762,000 voted yes on recall. of those that voted yes OR no 2,320,000 voted for Arnold. then if you add up the rest of the votes towards the other candidates, you'll see it's pretty much equal to the amount of people that voted no on the recall.

Davis did NOT get 46% of the votes. most of those votes just went to those who complain that this sets an ugly precedent and just voted for someone else in case the recall did go through.

Halx · 10-08-2003, 12:45 AM

Ok.. first the vote is divided into 2 parts...

Yes
No

Those who voted 'No' are now finished.. their vote is against the recall. They may not all be for Davis, but the are definately not FOR Arnold. 46% have voted 'No'

Those who voted 'Yes' are then divided amongst the REST of the candidates.

Arnold has 48% of those votes, which is only about 26-27% of the total if my math is vaguely correct.

Now, I could be going about this all wrong because the NUMBERS don't make sense.

The number of people who voted for the recall is signifigantly less than the total of votes for the recall candidates.

It's becoming aparent to me that the people who voted 'No' also filled out the second ballot and submitted it.

Silvy · 10-08-2003, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx

It's becoming aparent to me that the people who voted 'No' also filled out the second ballot and submitted it.

Which seems to make sense...
"I don't want a recall, but if it is decided, then I want <fill in some actor's name here> to be the new governor."

Voting 'no' on the first question is not waiving your right to a contigency plan.

seretogis · 10-08-2003, 01:38 AM

As of 4:30am CST, the numbers are as follows:

Quote:

92% of precincts reporting:

Recall Governor Davis
Yes: 54%
No: 46%

Governor Candidate
Schwarzenegger: 3,278,572 (51%)
Bustamante: 2,230,016 (35%)
McClintock: 903,622 (14%)

Total: 6,412,210 votes (100%)

I think that this shows pretty overwhelmingly that Californians were looking for change, and not looking for it with the Democrats. Republican candidates had 2/3 of the votes. It's just a shame that the Republican Party is too gutless to enact any real progressive changes anywhere.

Mitzkrieg · 10-08-2003, 01:50 AM

also, i gotta say that i take offense at the comments you made Gertie, especially this one.

Quote:

What a bunch of media mesmerized sheep

personally, i researched the "name" candidates down to the green party rep, Camejo, and even a couple independants to make sure i made what i hope to be the right choice. as well as my family members, friends and lots of coworkers did the same. i will say though that i think people tend to let media and smear tactics sway their decisions.

i mean, come on though... do you really think that the more than 1.5 million people that signed the petition to recall are nothing but sheep? that's just silly. by the time the votes are in, Arnold will easily have 3 million votes for him. also, in the past 8 gubenatorial elections in california, a recall HAS been attempted. they just never amounted to anything because not enough people were unhappy. something like a 26% approval rating for Davis? NICE! shit, only 350,000 signatures are needed to start a recall, and we got 1.5 million plus! and only one recall has succeeded besides this one in the last 80 years! sheep indeed!

i believe Arnold will actually do a good job. Arnold knows more than people think. saying that he doesn't know shit is kinda ignorant in my opinion, and shows that you haven't really researched into much at all. he earned a university business degree and went into the real estate market buying property before his movie career ever went anywhere. he's the national chairman of the national youth center inner city games which first started in L.A.. he backed prop 49, big time....... i could go on.

and as for the people that bring up the US economy after 9/11 causing california's deficit, blah blah blah..... we have a 38 billion dollar deficit, MORE than 5 of the next highest states deficits ADDED TOGETHER! the next highest deficit is owned by New York with 11.5 billion and they had to deal with rebuilding after 9/11!

no, there's no doubt the Davis administration had a lot to do with cali's deficit.

Quote:

What did everyone know now that they didn't know when they reelected him?

i'll tell you one thing we didn't know.... he lied about the size of the deficit. before he was reelected, he reported the deficit to be close to 20 billion. after the election, he said "oops, tack on another 18 billion to that"

so then you got mismanagement of funds like the 35% increase in spending after Davis took office. after the internet boom took a dive and tax revenue's dropped, the spending kept happening. then there's the electricity crisis which he handled so badly..... blah blah blah.... then we've got SB60 signed in, a triple in car tax (i'm spending $600 for registration this year instead of the $240 i could be paying) that's just a little excessive, don't ya think?

nah, the people are just unhappy and they have a right to be. to me, this is sending a message to all those politicians out there that we're not gonna take no more crap! a huge reason i voted for Arnold is his stance on cutting the bullshit government special interest spending and opening up the books for an audit (something Davis was not willing to do) putting a cap on budget spending. what do we all do when we go broke? keep ourselves from spending on shit that we don't have the money for! let's see, what else.... indian tribes paying their fair share of the taxes from the gaming revenue, getting rid of SB60, getting rid of the triple on car tax (make it something reasonable) and setting up an open government ammendment so the sneaky politicians can't get their midnight crap through the door without the public knowing. and these are just some of the reason's i voted yes on the recall, and for Arnold. you should read his agenda.

you know what though, ultimately there are reason's for both sides and everyone's going to have their opinion. but bashing the new governor before he's even had a chance is silly ignorance. give him some time. if he fails, i'll whole heartedly admit i voted for the wrong guy.

Ustwo · 10-08-2003, 06:24 AM

Halx I don't understand how you got your %'s.

Quote:

Shall GRAY DAVIS be recalled (removed) from the office of Governor?

97.9 % ( 14919 of 15235 ) precincts reporting as of Oct 8, 2003 at 7:16 am
Votes Percent

Yes 4,159,686 54.6
No 3,466,233 45.4

and then

Quote:

Leading Candidates to succeed GRAY DAVIS as Governor if he is recalled:
97.9 % ( 14919 of 15235 ) precincts reporting as of Oct 8, 2003 at 7:16 am
Candidate Party Votes Percent

Arnold Schwarzenegger Rep 3,529,388 48.0
Cruz M. Bustamante Dem 2,373,015 32.3
Tom McClintock Rep 972,894 13.3
Peter Miguel Camejo Grn 206,689 2.9

More people voted for Arnold then against the recall, it wasn't a vote for the recall OR a vote for a new canidate. In fact I think Arnold got more votes then Davis got in the 'real' election.

smooth · 10-08-2003, 07:26 AM

Ustwo,

Halx probably had different numbers because they are still fluctuating (some are filtering in).

I do see now that Arnold has received more votes than the no votes which makes me very glad. Not that I support Arnold but due to the fact that I was concerned over the format of the recall ballot (the possibility that the winner could take the seat with less votes than explicit votes for the current governor--which is what no votes are).

However, I would like to see if he actually did get more votes than Davis did in the previous election. If you have a quick source I would like to see it for my own edification.

BTW, this doesn't seem to be due to the college students. Every student I spoke to voted no and either Camejo or Bustamante. The main supporters of Arnold were those who either never voted before or haven't voted in recent years. My understanding is that the majority of them were working-class, non-college educated, white males (NASCAR dads). Despite the "sky is falling" predictions this demographic still retains a majority in our society but it sure takes an earthquake to get them away from the tv and/or job and off their asses to vote.

Ustwo · 10-08-2003, 07:35 AM

Davis won the CA election with 48% of the vote (same as Arnold), but don't have exact figures. When I have more time I'll try to find it.

Quote:

BTW, this doesn't seem to be due to the college students. Every student I spoke to voted no and either Camejo or Bustamante.

Kids are stupid. I rather doubt that Arnold support is only comming from the unwashed masses.

smooth · 10-08-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Kids are stupid.

Thanks. Been a few days since I posted here, now I remember why--so much for the new spirit of TFP Politics!

Quote:

I rather doubt that Arnold support is only comming from the unwashed masses.

I didn't make a claim about who his only supporters were--just the bulk of the people he was able to mobilize. Pundits are claiming this is the same demographic Bush is aiming for in 2004.

Quote:

Orange County Returns Votes Percent

Shall Gray Davis be recalled?

Yes 375,660 73.1 73.1

No 138,644 26.9 26.9

I was only explaining what I had heard from commentators and the people I personally spoke to. But you can call us stupid if you want to, I suppose...

Ustwo · 10-08-2003, 08:13 AM

Votes from Davis-Simon

Quote:

With 99.9 percent of the state's precincts counted by dawn Wednesday, Mr. Davis had won 47.34 percent of the vote or 3,141,349 votes. Mr. Simon had 42.39 percent of the total or 2,812,822 votes.

Arnold got more votes then Davis did when he was relected

BonesCPA · 10-08-2003, 09:58 AM

CA Secretary of State Website - Recall Question Results

CA Secretary of State Website - Candidates for Governor

Here are the up to date numbers. Use them how you will - statistics don't lie, only statisticians.

mml · 10-08-2003, 10:34 AM

Reality is that some people can lead and govern and some cannot. There have been plenty of professional/career politicians who have failed at the statewide or national level. There have been others who are new to the political scene who have succeeded in those situations. Californians were tired of the career politicans and were looking for something new. Arnold provided them with an option for change that they knew, and for whatever reason trusted. It is clear that the people of California have spoken loudly and clearly that they wanted change, let's all hope that they made a good decision. Let's all also hope that there is not a serious recall movement on their new governor and that there is not a spree of recalls across the country due to this one's success.

Gortexfogg · 10-08-2003, 10:41 AM

All I hope is that Arnold can get the right people in the right places to start fixing things around California. I don't think he can do much by himself, but some people say all you need is common sense to govern. As long as more money is put into education, the budget gets balanced, and they stop spending so mcuh tax money on illegal immigrants, I'll be happy.

Conclamo Ludus · 10-08-2003, 10:57 AM

I hope Arnold knows what he's getting into. I was pretty surprised by the results. The people have spoken. It will be interesting to see how Arnold governs. People are quick to call him a dumbass, but that isn't really the greatest argument I've ever heard. Who knows, maybe he'll do some good. I don't envy him at all. It'll either make or break him.

Mitzkrieg · 10-08-2003, 11:03 AM

just fyi.... california's recall was established in 1911 and there have been a total of 31 attempts of a gubenatorial recall. this quote is from a fox news article regarding recall history.

Quote:

Throughout history, recall attempts at the state level have been largely unsuccessful, according to the National Conference of State Legislators (search). Only one governor has been recalled — North Dakota’s Lynn J. Frazier in 1921. California voters have initiated 31 recall attempts, but the current one is the first to ever reach the ballot.

Recall efforts focused on state lawmakers have been only slightly more successful. In California, 107 recall efforts were initiated between 1911 and 1994, and only four qualified for the ballot with two resulting in removal. Two other recalls have succeeded in Michigan and one in Oregon.

Sabato said that rather than an upsurge in the recall of statewide officials, a more likely result from the closely watched California race will be an increase in efforts to recall local officials. The recall is already used much more often on the local level, with at least 36 states permitting the recall of local officials

i really doubt this will become any more of a trend than it already is. only reason the recall became such a big deal is because this one actually succeeded. if it hadn't made it to the ballot this year, people would still not realize how common the attempts have been. i would hardly call the success of the second recall in 80 years abusing.

Bill O'Rights · 10-08-2003, 11:31 AM

Damn...and I was rootin' fer Mary Carey. What percentage did she get, anyway.

sky_driver · 10-08-2003, 11:33 AM

Governor Schwarzenegger....I am sorry but I just have to laugh at those crazy californians. And yes, I must agree with the-marq, in that I think our political system will now be the laughing stock. But....who the fuck cares, I sure don't... I am just gald that Arnold is a republican and he might just be able to shut the fuck up those idiot hollywood democrats like barbara strisand.

ubertuber · 10-08-2003, 11:50 AM

You know, one thing that I wonder is exactly what the Republican party is expecting to gain from this situation in the long term. The CA deficit problems are severe - but it took years of progressive tax policies and high spending to get them to where they are now. There is virtually no chance that Arnold, Davis, or anyone could fix that quagmire in two years.

By saying that Davis should be removed for not fixing the budgetary crisis, there is an implication that someone else could do better. And when that person doesn't? What will the excuse be then?

I actually like Arnold, and I think he is an intelligent man with an amazing drive and will to succeed. I just don't know that this will be the best start to a political career - seems like the deck is stacked against him in terms of producing tangible results in a quick fashion.

By the way, I saw that the proposition on racial information gathering was defeated. What about the infrastructure proposition? Was that one passed?

MuadDib · 10-08-2003, 12:56 PM

Both proposals failed. I'm worried about the 2 million absentee ballots that haven't been counted and won't be for months. Even though I really thought Davis needed to be kept I think it is time to put this behind us and move on for the sake of California and to focus democrats on the upcoming presidential election. If those ballots come back and its closer than we thought or even opposite I really hope Davis won't withdraw his concession.

Dale Kemp · 10-08-2003, 02:53 PM

"Look who the compitition was, a joke inept governor, and a racist sepratist. Arnold was the ONLY choice. That or Gary Coleman." (I don't know how you get these quotes of other posts to appear highlighted the way you do.)

I thought there were about 138 choices. California elected a very complex man who claims to be Republican but talks like a liberal Democrat. But thinking about that, that suits California perfectly. They have no clue how pinko they are.

Peryn · 10-08-2003, 03:35 PM

Everyone thinks arnold is stupid and cannot govern that state. But look at his campaign. He was by far, the smartest strategist. He figured out how to appeal to teh largest amount of voters. He took a position that republicans can respect, on his economic plans. He took a stance that democrats accept on his social issues. He was the only candidate that could adequately appeal to BOTH parties. i haven't seen recent figures but as of last night, 25% of teh people that voted no on recall voted for arnold. What other politician has been able to get that kind of cross-party support? He is also the perfect man to get california back on teh right track. He surrounded himself with very intelligent people. He can begin to get teh state back on track with the support of both republicans adn democrats. At the end of his term, he can then put himself behind a strong republican like Mcclintoch. He can succesfully transition the state over to another party without causing much damage. The voters wont go from one political extreme to another, and get angry with him and he wont polarize the state. Even if he does a bad job and teh democrats get back in, it will be better off than if he hadn't gotten elected at all. The republicans will be happier, as they had their chance in office, and teh democrats will be happier so they can say "i told you so". All around, it is a win-win situation.

As for college age student not voting for teh recall....im the exact opposite. Attending a community college, which were hit very hard, i saw first hand teh effects of davis/bustamante cutting money to teh schools. I saw many of my classes being cut, i saw tuition increase, i saw a lack of counselors, i saw almost all the of part-time faculty have their jobs threatened or lost. I saw teh computer classes not allowed to print because we couldn't afford the paper. The complaints of education cuts weren't just some bean counters talking about theory this time...

Willy · 10-08-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
Ok.. first the vote is divided into 2 parts...

Yes
No

Those who voted 'No' are now finished.. their vote is against the recall. They may not all be for Davis, but the are definately not FOR Arnold. 46% have voted 'No'

Those who voted 'Yes' are then divided amongst the REST of the candidates.

Arnold has 48% of those votes, which is only about 26-27% of the total if my math is vaguely correct.

Now, I could be going about this all wrong because the NUMBERS don't make sense.

The number of people who voted for the recall is signifigantly less than the total of votes for the recall candidates.

It's becoming aparent to me that the people who voted 'No' also filled out the second ballot and submitted it.

That's not how it worked. Even if you voted 'no' on the recall, you still got to vote on which candidate you wanted in the event the recall passed. Obviously there were a fair number of people that voted 'no' on the recall, but then went on to vote for Arnold or McClintock.

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
Californians voted for change.
They voted for a strong person because they wanted a strong change.
Good luck to a place I called home for one of the decades of my life!

Very well said.

smooth · 10-08-2003, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peryn
As for college age student not voting for teh recall....im the exact opposite. Attending a community college, which were hit very hard, i saw first hand teh effects of davis/bustamante cutting money to teh schools.

A U.C. grad student or a community college undergrad...hmm...

When you get up here we'll explain the political complexities and why your anger was misdirected. In the meantime, just focus on your intro classes

Zeld2.0 · 10-08-2003, 10:22 PM

Haha smooth i love that one

Personally doesn't mater much at the private level anyways but my friend out at the U.C.'s got the same feelings

And yes, when you vote yes/no on recall, you can vote on candidates as well. I know many who voted no yet chose say Schwarzneggar or anyone else.

As for the situation - if he's trying to get anything out of it politically, i think he chose the wrong palce to do it. When you go in with a deficit that huge, he himself won't be making all that many things that will be fixing it - it will be California itself in the end.

And boy does Oregon want a recall itself... bankrupt states anyone?

As for people who aren't from CA - its great, you've had your fun, but honestly if you ain't here, you wouldn't know.

I'll tell you the truth - there ARE many mindless sheep out there who voted Ahnold just cuz he was the governator or whatever term youwanna tack on. Its that simple - to them, who gives a fuck what happens 3 years later from him as long as it doesn't hurt 'em.

And IMO these candidates were all jokes - good thing i'm not gonna be staying in this state too long anyways when its grad time - better jump off the sinking ship! (which has, btw, been sinking for quite some time IMO despite being the best place to live in IMO - says a lot for the rest of the country

)

Zeld2.0 · 10-08-2003, 10:26 PM

Oh and Peryn - i myself know of the cuts and what not. Davis during his first term did a fine job IMO in education - hella lot of stuff i had in high school unavailable to my seniors before.

Personally i have that gut feeling things aren't going to get better until after arnold is gone himself -

And Dale Kemp - yes CA is a pretty wacko like that. The sad part, IMO, of all this is how it ends up though - the rich / already in place get the chance to get to power, while hte common people who signed up don't get a chance. Not that most deserve the job anyways, but there are those out ther who deserve the chance but can't simply because they can't bring out the money for campaigns.

Mitzkrieg · 10-08-2003, 11:20 PM

Quote:

posted by ubertuber:
but it took years of progressive tax policies and high spending to get them to where they are now. There is virtually no chance that Arnold, Davis, or anyone could fix that quagmire in two years.

it actually only took a little over a year to create the deficit california is in now. in 2000, california had a 12.3 billion SURPLUS (not deficit). in one year, tax revenue went up 23% and government spending matched that. then in 2001 when the high-tech bubble burst, tax revenue plunged 14%, but government spending went up another 12 - 15%. hence the deficit we're in now.

Quote:

posted by Zeld2.0
As for the situation - if he's trying to get anything out of it politically, i think he chose the wrong palce to do it. When you go in with a deficit that huge, he himself won't be making all that many things that will be fixing it

and as for both your comments about the deficit not being fixed any time soon, it's already been projected that by the end of the next fiscal year, the deficit will be cut by more than half of what it is now, down to 16 billion. it would be below 10 billion, but Arnold is going to remove that insane triple car tax fee, thank god. by the end of Arnold's term, if things go the way he plans, the deficit will be pretty much gone, or close to it.

we will just have to wait and see.

Gertie · 10-09-2003, 04:07 AM

Mitzkrieg - Thanks for a well thought out and articulate opinion. It's the first one I've heard from CA. I stand by my own opinion but what the hell, it's over now, let's see how he does. Clearly he has been sucessful in his life endeavors. And he's no more difficult to understand than Kissinger or Shalikashvili. BTW, the media to which I referred is Arnold's movies. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what role Maria plays. Good luck to you all!

10-07-2003, 09:30 PM	#41 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	From what it sounds like Davis had a piss poor grip on how to handle the economy shipping out jobs and raising taxs on business doesn't encourage growth... __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

10-07-2003, 09:39 PM	#42 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	You know what else is funny, apperently Bustamante is going to be on Arnold's staff as his Lt. Gov (not by choice obviously), is there anyway that Arnold could get rid of him? __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

10-07-2003, 09:50 PM	#43 (permalink)
MuadDib Psycho	I don't know. Davis gets no love from me, but still I see the Cali economy as the legislatures failure and beyond that I still can't see a bad economy as a reason for recalling an official. Hell, the economy of this country has sucked for over a year but we aren't recalling Bush. __________________ "The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

10-07-2003, 09:57 PM	#44 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Sadly nothing will get done because of the legislature, despite Ahhnold's economic staff which could help the situation, the Dems will cock block. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

10-07-2003, 10:01 PM	#46 (permalink)
MuadDib Psycho	I don't know. He's a moderate and he has Buffet's support and chair of the California Women's League. Partisanism isn't as overblown as a lot of the press would have you believe. Its mostly just of the war and exacerbated by the upcoming elections and the democratic primaries. Most legislation still passes without a hitch except pretty extreme stuff. __________________ "The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

10-07-2003, 10:19 PM	#47 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Davis had a 28% approval rating, and yet the recall process is somehow being misused? WHAT?! How low of an approval rating does someone need to justify being recalled? Perhaps 5% approval rating if it's a Democrat in office, and 49% if it's a Republican? If Schwarzenegger wins, he has won legitimately. For Democrats to organize a recall of him with absolutely no reason other than "waah, he booted our buddy out of office" will be misuse of the recall process. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames Last edited by seretogis; 10-07-2003 at 10:23 PM..

10-07-2003, 10:27 PM	#48 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	They won't recall him because they spent all that time bitching over it in the first place. They'll look silly if they started one. What they'll do is have the ACLU and people file lawsuits about hanging chads and disenfranchised voters. They'll still look silly but whatever. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

10-07-2003, 10:42 PM	#49 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Assuming every vote against the recall is a vote for Davis... Davis currently has 46% of the votes Arnold has only about 27% go figure. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-07-2003, 10:52 PM	#50 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	Can any Californian tell me whether media speculation about the winner started before all of the polling places closed.

10-07-2003, 11:44 PM	#52 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I never said I was a dem granted, I'm registered to vote as a dem however, I registered years ago when clinton actually made them look good I just want a good man in the office right now I wanted only to bring attention to the percentages involved and have all of you people make your own decisions based on them. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-07-2003, 11:57 PM	#53 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Californians voted for change. They voted for a strong person because they wanted a strong change. Good luck to a place I called home for one of the decades of my life! __________________ create evolution

10-08-2003, 12:01 AM	#54 (permalink)
Mitzkrieg Insane	hal, you put the wrong spin on that percentage figure of yours. you're not considering the fact that there are other candidates. now, if Arnold was the ONLY candidate running for the recall, then you could spin it that way. look at it this way. after 75% of the precincts reported in, 2,762,000 voted yes on recall. of those that voted yes OR no 2,320,000 voted for Arnold. then if you add up the rest of the votes towards the other candidates, you'll see it's pretty much equal to the amount of people that voted no on the recall. Davis did NOT get 46% of the votes. most of those votes just went to those who complain that this sets an ugly precedent and just voted for someone else in case the recall did go through.

10-08-2003, 12:45 AM	#55 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Ok.. first the vote is divided into 2 parts... Yes No Those who voted 'No' are now finished.. their vote is against the recall. They may not all be for Davis, but the are definately not FOR Arnold. 46% have voted 'No' Those who voted 'Yes' are then divided amongst the REST of the candidates. Arnold has 48% of those votes, which is only about 26-27% of the total if my math is vaguely correct. Now, I could be going about this all wrong because the NUMBERS don't make sense. The number of people who voted for the recall is signifigantly less than the total of votes for the recall candidates. It's becoming aparent to me that the people who voted 'No' also filled out the second ballot and submitted it. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-08-2003, 07:26 AM	#60 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Ustwo, Halx probably had different numbers because they are still fluctuating (some are filtering in). I do see now that Arnold has received more votes than the no votes which makes me very glad. Not that I support Arnold but due to the fact that I was concerned over the format of the recall ballot (the possibility that the winner could take the seat with less votes than explicit votes for the current governor--which is what no votes are). However, I would like to see if he actually did get more votes than Davis did in the previous election. If you have a quick source I would like to see it for my own edification. BTW, this doesn't seem to be due to the college students. Every student I spoke to voted no and either Camejo or Bustamante. The main supporters of Arnold were those who either never voted before or haven't voted in recent years. My understanding is that the majority of them were working-class, non-college educated, white males (NASCAR dads). Despite the "sky is falling" predictions this demographic still retains a majority in our society but it sure takes an earthquake to get them away from the tv and/or job and off their asses to vote. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

10-08-2003, 09:58 AM	#64 (permalink)
BonesCPA No. It's not done yet. Location: sorta kinda phila	CA Secretary of State Website - Recall Question Results CA Secretary of State Website - Candidates for Governor Here are the up to date numbers. Use them how you will - statistics don't lie, only statisticians. __________________ Back into hibernation. Last edited by BonesCPA; 10-09-2003 at 12:42 PM..

10-08-2003, 10:34 AM	#65 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	Reality is that some people can lead and govern and some cannot. There have been plenty of professional/career politicians who have failed at the statewide or national level. There have been others who are new to the political scene who have succeeded in those situations. Californians were tired of the career politicans and were looking for something new. Arnold provided them with an option for change that they knew, and for whatever reason trusted. It is clear that the people of California have spoken loudly and clearly that they wanted change, let's all hope that they made a good decision. Let's all also hope that there is not a serious recall movement on their new governor and that there is not a spree of recalls across the country due to this one's success. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

10-08-2003, 10:41 AM	#66 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	All I hope is that Arnold can get the right people in the right places to start fixing things around California. I don't think he can do much by himself, but some people say all you need is common sense to govern. As long as more money is put into education, the budget gets balanced, and they stop spending so mcuh tax money on illegal immigrants, I'll be happy.

10-08-2003, 10:57 AM	#67 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	I hope Arnold knows what he's getting into. I was pretty surprised by the results. The people have spoken. It will be interesting to see how Arnold governs. People are quick to call him a dumbass, but that isn't really the greatest argument I've ever heard. Who knows, maybe he'll do some good. I don't envy him at all. It'll either make or break him. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

10-08-2003, 11:31 AM	#69 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Damn...and I was rootin' fer Mary Carey. What percentage did she get, anyway. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

10-08-2003, 11:33 AM	#70 (permalink)
sky_driver Insane	Governor Schwarzenegger....I am sorry but I just have to laugh at those crazy californians. And yes, I must agree with the-marq, in that I think our political system will now be the laughing stock. But....who the fuck cares, I sure don't... I am just gald that Arnold is a republican and he might just be able to shut the fuck up those idiot hollywood democrats like barbara strisand.

10-08-2003, 11:50 AM	#71 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	You know, one thing that I wonder is exactly what the Republican party is expecting to gain from this situation in the long term. The CA deficit problems are severe - but it took years of progressive tax policies and high spending to get them to where they are now. There is virtually no chance that Arnold, Davis, or anyone could fix that quagmire in two years. By saying that Davis should be removed for not fixing the budgetary crisis, there is an implication that someone else could do better. And when that person doesn't? What will the excuse be then? I actually like Arnold, and I think he is an intelligent man with an amazing drive and will to succeed. I just don't know that this will be the best start to a political career - seems like the deck is stacked against him in terms of producing tangible results in a quick fashion. By the way, I saw that the proposition on racial information gathering was defeated. What about the infrastructure proposition? Was that one passed? __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

10-08-2003, 12:56 PM	#72 (permalink)
MuadDib Psycho	Both proposals failed. I'm worried about the 2 million absentee ballots that haven't been counted and won't be for months. Even though I really thought Davis needed to be kept I think it is time to put this behind us and move on for the sake of California and to focus democrats on the upcoming presidential election. If those ballots come back and its closer than we thought or even opposite I really hope Davis won't withdraw his concession. __________________ "The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

10-08-2003, 02:53 PM	#73 (permalink)
Dale Kemp Crazy Location: New Mexico	"Look who the compitition was, a joke inept governor, and a racist sepratist. Arnold was the ONLY choice. That or Gary Coleman." (I don't know how you get these quotes of other posts to appear highlighted the way you do.) I thought there were about 138 choices. California elected a very complex man who claims to be Republican but talks like a liberal Democrat. But thinking about that, that suits California perfectly. They have no clue how pinko they are. __________________ Trueheart

10-08-2003, 03:35 PM	#74 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	Everyone thinks arnold is stupid and cannot govern that state. But look at his campaign. He was by far, the smartest strategist. He figured out how to appeal to teh largest amount of voters. He took a position that republicans can respect, on his economic plans. He took a stance that democrats accept on his social issues. He was the only candidate that could adequately appeal to BOTH parties. i haven't seen recent figures but as of last night, 25% of teh people that voted no on recall voted for arnold. What other politician has been able to get that kind of cross-party support? He is also the perfect man to get california back on teh right track. He surrounded himself with very intelligent people. He can begin to get teh state back on track with the support of both republicans adn democrats. At the end of his term, he can then put himself behind a strong republican like Mcclintoch. He can succesfully transition the state over to another party without causing much damage. The voters wont go from one political extreme to another, and get angry with him and he wont polarize the state. Even if he does a bad job and teh democrats get back in, it will be better off than if he hadn't gotten elected at all. The republicans will be happier, as they had their chance in office, and teh democrats will be happier so they can say "i told you so". All around, it is a win-win situation. As for college age student not voting for teh recall....im the exact opposite. Attending a community college, which were hit very hard, i saw first hand teh effects of davis/bustamante cutting money to teh schools. I saw many of my classes being cut, i saw tuition increase, i saw a lack of counselors, i saw almost all the of part-time faculty have their jobs threatened or lost. I saw teh computer classes not allowed to print because we couldn't afford the paper. The complaints of education cuts weren't just some bean counters talking about theory this time... __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

10-08-2003, 10:22 PM	#77 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Haha smooth i love that one Personally doesn't mater much at the private level anyways but my friend out at the U.C.'s got the same feelings And yes, when you vote yes/no on recall, you can vote on candidates as well. I know many who voted no yet chose say Schwarzneggar or anyone else. As for the situation - if he's trying to get anything out of it politically, i think he chose the wrong palce to do it. When you go in with a deficit that huge, he himself won't be making all that many things that will be fixing it - it will be California itself in the end. And boy does Oregon want a recall itself... bankrupt states anyone? As for people who aren't from CA - its great, you've had your fun, but honestly if you ain't here, you wouldn't know. I'll tell you the truth - there ARE many mindless sheep out there who voted Ahnold just cuz he was the governator or whatever term youwanna tack on. Its that simple - to them, who gives a fuck what happens 3 years later from him as long as it doesn't hurt 'em. And IMO these candidates were all jokes - good thing i'm not gonna be staying in this state too long anyways when its grad time - better jump off the sinking ship! (which has, btw, been sinking for quite some time IMO despite being the best place to live in IMO - says a lot for the rest of the country )

10-08-2003, 10:26 PM	#78 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Oh and Peryn - i myself know of the cuts and what not. Davis during his first term did a fine job IMO in education - hella lot of stuff i had in high school unavailable to my seniors before. Personally i have that gut feeling things aren't going to get better until after arnold is gone himself - And Dale Kemp - yes CA is a pretty wacko like that. The sad part, IMO, of all this is how it ends up though - the rich / already in place get the chance to get to power, while hte common people who signed up don't get a chance. Not that most deserve the job anyways, but there are those out ther who deserve the chance but can't simply because they can't bring out the money for campaigns.

10-09-2003, 04:07 AM	#80 (permalink)
Gertie Psycho	Mitzkrieg - Thanks for a well thought out and articulate opinion. It's the first one I've heard from CA. I stand by my own opinion but what the hell, it's over now, let's see how he does. Clearly he has been sucessful in his life endeavors. And he's no more difficult to understand than Kissinger or Shalikashvili. BTW, the media to which I referred is Arnold's movies. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what role Maria plays. Good luck to you all!