Liquor Dealer

I'm sorry I can't quote the source but this was discussed on Fox this morning. A Congressman from Texas is proposing that the US withdraw from the UN. They gave the bill number but I didn't catch it and haven't been able to find out anymore about it. This idea is nothing new but to my knowledge this is the first attempt to legally divorce the UN. In our part of the country there are large numbers of Birchers ( the John Birch Society) and they are capable of exerting influence on local politics in some areas. They are very strong in the far western parts of the Oklahoma Panhandle. The Birch Society has been very active for years in trying to get the US out of the UN. I don't know of any connection between this and the proposed legislation - just a coincidence as far as I know. But! There are problems with the UN and perhaps us getting our butts out of it isn't such a bad idea. The UN has never displayed anything close to an ability to effectively deal with any of it's stated purposes. It seems it was designed to failure from the beginning. The Security Council is utterly ridiculous with the way its veto policy is implemented. The rotating committee assignments are ludicrous. Syria heads the committee on terrorism and Iraq the committee on weapons of mass destruction? This is an organization that needs to be revamped or allowed to just go away. Your turn.

The_Dude

hell no!

it's the only organization that has world membership and is doing a whole bunch of good things.

w/o the strongest country on earth, the organization would have no legitamacy at all.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

maximusveritas

This would be another step towards isolating ourselves from the rest of the world. After 9-11, I thought people would have realized how disastrous such a policy can be.

stan the man

ive writen four diffrent responses to this thread and deleated them all

make that five now

no they shouldnt pull out period

if that where to happen millions would die of stavation without the un's food aid and no one would be around to step in when little skirmishes brake out around the world

once all hell broke loose the most of the world would turn to war and with the us's economy based so heavily on imports the american people would feel what its like to be a second world country

no president gets reelected on that platform

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crewsor

The sooner we are out of the U.N. the better. It needs to be scrapped and rebuilt as strictly a humanitarian organization. It is worthless as is. The way it is designed now, nothing worthwhile can be accomplished because most of the members are more concerned with their own interests, or playing tit for tat and proving they are not weak or irrelevant, than trying to do the jobs they should be doing.
Nations should have to earn the right via human rights performance and responsible govornment actions to participate in an organization which has the power to affect world situations. When I see the countrys that are wielding diplomatic power as members of the U.N. I can only shake my head and wonder what the hell we are doing as part of that sorry group.

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The_Dude

you have to remember that the purpose of the US was to prevent a third world war, and not to prevent measly conflicts like the ones now.

to me, it's doing it's job

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

crewsor

Right now its more likely to create a third world war than prevent one.

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The_Dude

how?

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

crewsor

Look at the Iraqi conflict, did the U.N. create unity or division? Do you think most members voted their consciense or just figured it was payback time for the US not going along with them the last time they wanted something?

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The_Dude

so?? just cuz the rest of the world doesnt agree w/ the US on something means that UN is creating division?

this is just ONE issue.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

crewsor

It just doesn't work. Its nothing but a huge clusterfuck. Most of the members can't govern their own countries much less handle others concerns.

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Dragonlich

The UN is not perfect. They do nice work in some cases, and fuck up massively in others. The main problem they have is actually *doing* something.

But unfortunately, unless anyone else has any ideas, it's the best we've got. Just don't expect miracles from the UN, and don't expect them to do the right thing. They cannot fight wars, they cannot stop wars, they can only clean up afterwards; and there they usually do a good job.

Liquor Dealer

I think that perhaps the issue that causes much of their do nothingness is that many nations look at the organization as being nothing more than an interantional debating society where one goes to show the flag. I don't think that any type of reorganization could help this organization. Eliminating the Security Council might make the rest of the organization more functional. The concept under which it operates doomed it to nothingness from the beginning. I do not claim to be an expert on anything - muchless the United Nations, but anyone with one good eye and half a brain can see that this concept simply doesn't work, has never worked, and will never work in the future. At its very best it has resembled a camel - an animal designed and built by a committee and at its worst it is like the story of the blind men describing an elephant. I have never been able to determine exactly what the whole concept behind the security council is but one can see, if one only looks, that the power of the veto is used in this body in much the same manner as that in which a drunk selects his favorite woman for the evening at two in the morning. Being willing to settle for anything whatsoever just as time runs out is most often far worse than nothing at all.

Perhaps two changes might make the thing work:

1. Get it out of the United States.
This physical location has caused it to become the location for nation bashing. Locate it somewhere in Europe - preferably in Switzerland or Belgium. Put it in a nation that is neutral at least in appearance. Do not put it in any nation that sees itself as a world power or has ambitions to become one.

2. Eliminate the Security Council

The idea of allowing a small group of unequal nations with absolute veto power to control the actions of the entire organization are what has doomed the thing from its very conception. Set it up like it was a demcratic government - I don't know which form it should take - they all have their own good and their own bad points but it does need to be a form of government that is capable of saying what it means and meaning what it says - not just a mouth in the talking head of a spindoctor as it its now.

Your turn

The_Dude

yes, i agree w/ the unequal representaion in the security council.

the power has shifted greatly from ww2 and it should be equal representation in the council w/o vetoes.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Liquor Dealer

I cannot believe that you actually agreed with anything I've ever said! I may faint! Or is that feint?

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

mean-spirited

Was the congressman out of Texas Ron Paul ? I would like to see the US pull out of the UN but don't see how that is possible. I disagree with the one country one vote especially when we're paying for about 40% of the cost.(read that number someplace don't remember where though.) Too much bureaucracy for my taste. We have a Constitution that we were founded on. We do not need the UN to alter are rules and regulations. Like we don't have enough of them already without UN envolvement.

The_Dude

so, the % of vote you get should depend on your contributions?

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

mean-spirited

Why not spred the cost as equally as the vote. If everyone paid the same it would be one less bitch I had with the UN.

Liquor Dealer

I believe it was Ron Paul and yes, payment should be equal - if they expect us to continue paying the lion's share then we should also get an equal percentage of the vote - whatever that percent might be. Getting out would probably be the best in the long run because the UN will never be anything other than a huge bureaucracy or an international debating society - probably both.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

KillerYoda

Remember the time we left the "League of Nations?"

World War 2 sure was awesome, right?

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Daval

I think that pulling out of the UN would be disastorous, and I also agree that the UN is not working as well as it could do.

I agree wholeheartedly with BastardStepChilds solutions for improving the UN. The idea of one of 5 countries able to veto any resolution just like that is ridiculous.

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crumbbum

Whatever... a world vote is no moral authority, since when is a majority of governments with seriously non-objective opinions about things somehow more "right" than anything else? All the UN countries have vested economic and political motivations for every vote (see France and Russia). The UN should be defanged, since it has failed miserably at "uniting" anything. It should be preserved for humanitarian work, but as it is now, it just hamstrings the US, which is the only real guarantor of world peace and security. (whether you like us or not, US power holds things in line and keeps things from getting out of control. The iraq war was a positive development because psycho-dictators and nutty regimes will think twice before messing with us.)

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Liquor Dealer

[SIZE=6
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The US was never a member nation of the League of Nations.[/SIZE]

The inability of the League of Nations to function allowed member nations of the League of Nations to demand reparation payments from Germany that were totally unrealistic - these demands and attempts to force Germany to pay led to worldwide depression which eventually allowed Hitler to take over the German government and Hitler figured out how you end depression - War

The inability of the UN to control anything could lead to the same result.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

KillerYoda

No shit, that's what I meant, guess I didn't phrase it right enough for you. I figured since President Wilson wanted to be in it, while congress rejected it (for not having a congressman present at the proceedings for the Treaty of Versailles) we sort of "left" it.

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Mr. Mojo

Lets hear it for common sense -
<a target=new href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20030429/ts_nm/rights_un_dc"><b>U.S. Enraged as Cuba Returned to U.N. Rights Body</b></a>

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Cuba was reelected without opposition on Tuesday to the United Nations (news - web sites)' top human rights body, prompting a fierce response by Washington that it was "like putting Al Capone in charge of bank security."

The voting took place in the 54-nation U.N. Economic and Social Council, which two years ago ousted the United States from the Human Rights Commission for the first time since Washington helped found it in 1947. The United States was returned to the body in a vote the following year.

In Washington, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer (news - web sites) told reporters: "Cuba does not deserve a seat on the Human Rights Commission. Cuba deserves to be investigated by the Human Rights Commission."

In the last month, the Cuban authorities have rounded up 75 dissidents and imprisoned them for terms of up to 28 years. As part of the crackdown, Cuba also executed three men who hijacked a ferry in a failed bid to reach the United States....

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When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

Grothendieck

I do wonder at times. There is a question I ask myself often, when I think about things, and my point of view. It's: How does the other person think? Why would they have a different point of view?

Now this idea of the US leaving the UN to me seems like brainwash. There is only one country that seems to think the UN is worthless/wrong/bad. This country has a growing tendency of thinking it has solutions to everything, and that if a majority of its citizens has been influenced to think in one way about things, then THAT must be way to do it. This country also has the tendency to think that there are easy solutions to everything, and that things that don't work perfectly must be eliminated and replaced by something new -- something new that is, more often than not, something worse than before. This country, to me, seems to be losing contact to common sense, and it is called the US.

"How does the other person think?" I really don't know why there is so much anti-UN-ism in the US. Maybe you can help. I can't personally help but attribute it to a mixture of stupidity and media brain-wash.

"Why would they have a different point of view?" This is the question I wish a lot of Americans would ask themselves when they are faced with a world-wide majority of opposing views.

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