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Old 08-13-2003, 10:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

Interesting story. Personally, I like Al Franken.... Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot was a funny book, and I'm looking forward to this one.

But what was O'Reilly/Fox thinking with this lawsuit? Franken's book went from pretty unknown to #1 on amazon pre-orders due to their lawsuit. Are they secretly friends with Franken and just trying to do him a favor? The book is comedy, so Fox had to know that their lawsuit doesn't have a chance in hell of sticking just on parody grounds.

http://www.drudgereport.com/bof.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/12/ny...partner=GOOGLE

http://1.junglescan.com/scan/details...5947647&days=7

Lots of underlying personal vendettas going on here. O'Reilly apparently doesn't like Franken due to some stuff he has said in the past. Drudge appears to have a grudge against O'Reilly too because he has said nasty things in the past about O'Reilly's radio show, maybe because it competes with Drudge's.

Anyway, quite a soap opera going on. Looks like Franken will end up laughing all the way to the bank.

Quote:
O'REILLY LOBBIED FOR LAWSUIT

**Exclusive**

FOX NEWS star Bill O'Reilly lobbied his network to file suit against author Al Franken and his upcoming book "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right," top sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

"For Bill, above all other things, this was a matter of honor and support," a top source explained from New York.

MORE

In his book, Franken directly challenges O'Reilly on his journalistic record and aggressively accuses cable's top-rated host of exaggeration, padding of his resume and other claims.

"He is not going to sit by and let Franken smear the hell out of him," a top FOX source said.

The lawsuit does not directly address the content of the book on charges of libel, rather it claims Fox has trademarked "Fair and Balanced" to describe its news coverage and that Mr. Franken's use of the phrase would "blur and tarnish" it.

Nearly a month before its release, the Franken work has rocketed and lodged itself at #1 on AMAZON's sales list.

Developing...
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Within a day of the lawsuit being announced, Franken's book rose to #1 on the Amazon sales chart. It had previously stood somewhere in the teens (I think).

Thanks, FOX! Free publicity for a book that makes you look bad. How dumb can you get?
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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yea, i had never heard of the guy before i saw the info on the lawsuit a couple of days ago.

i mean, it's very borderline here about the phrase "fair and balanced" as belonging to FNC. and the guy is using the phrase inside a sentance too. i'll have to side with franken.
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Old 08-13-2003, 11:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Dude
yea, i had never heard of the guy before i saw the info on the lawsuit a couple of days ago.

i mean, it's very borderline here about the phrase "fair and balanced" as belonging to FNC. and the guy is using the phrase inside a sentance too. i'll have to side with franken.
I LIVED the Al Franken decade.

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Old 08-14-2003, 04:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The book wasn't in the teens. It was up in the 200 - 700 range for much of the time preceeding the lawsuit.
It made over a 13,000% jump in one day.
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Old 08-14-2003, 05:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Pre-ordered. Done and done.

Hey Al, it's because you're good enough, you're smart enough, and dog gone it, people like you.
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Old 08-14-2003, 05:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Don't like Franken, moderately like O'Reilly, no thoughts on Drudge but I guess the lawsuit is legitimate. I mean you can sue for anything you want, it doesn't mean you will win but you can still sue.

The whole trademarking of common phrases is more outrageous to me than the lawsuit or Franken's and O'Reilly's/Fox's argument.

There needs to be a better trademark process since there have been quite a few cases of late with corporations (and individuals) taking ownership of common terms.
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Old 08-14-2003, 07:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
I LIVED the Al Franken decade.
Me too, Lebell.
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Old 08-14-2003, 08:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Having read both Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot and Why Not Me, I'll be picking this up. I think Franken's written stuff is very funny, unlike his acting stuff on SNL. As for this lawsuit, brilliant work, Fox. We like to call you "Fair and (Mentally)Unbalanced" around here.
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Old 08-14-2003, 11:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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O'Reilly and Fox News both look stupid over this. They both love conservatives who blast liberals, as I do, but they can't take it in return. What a bunch of fucking pussies!

Last edited by sixate; 08-14-2003 at 07:20 PM..
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Old 08-14-2003, 10:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The sad part, I'm told, is that because the lawsuit was filed as a trademark violation case instead of a copyright infringement or libel suit, Fox might have a chance.

If Fox can convince a judge that their trademark is 'diluted' or something to that effect by the book, then the fight is apparently on.
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Old 08-14-2003, 10:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I've seen and heard a lot of Al Franken, I must say, what a bonehead.
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Old 08-14-2003, 10:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hahaha, stick it to them.
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Old 08-15-2003, 09:08 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Definitely a frivolous lawsuit. And, because we all know that trial lawyers are usually liberal, I predict Fox will be handed its ass on a platter.
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Old 08-15-2003, 10:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by prb
we all know that trial lawyers are usually liberal
Um, I'd dearly love to see you attempt to justify this statement. What, next are you going to try to tell me the media's liberal, too?!
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Old 08-15-2003, 12:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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At least there are studies that have proven over the past 30 years the media has been more left than right.
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy4
At least there are studies that have proven over the past 30 years the media has been more left than right.
There are studies that claim tobacco is good for you, too. Pay enough money to the right think tank and you can have any study you please.
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

Quote:
Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
Lots of underlying personal vendettas going on here. O'Reilly apparently doesn't like Franken due to some stuff he has said in the past.
The vendetta is that O'Reilly has repeatedly, on the record, lied about recieving a prestigious media award (he didn't); Frankin has got stuck into him about this in the past.

Apparently exposing frauds is Bad and Wrong.
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I very much would like to see Fox take a beating for this suit. I do think it's funny that they gave him so much free publicity. Must be nice to be his publisher right about now.
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
There are studies that claim tobacco is good for you, too. Pay enough money to the right think tank and you can have any study you please.
Yeup, although 30 years of studies reaching the same conclusion must be really expensive. Anywho easiest way of noticing it is looking how they describe the parties. The democrats surge power on waves of popular support. The Republicans took over. The Democrats were elected into office. The Republicans seized office.
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Old 08-15-2003, 06:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well there's your problem right there: you consider the Democrats to be liberals.

Examine how the press treats Kucinich or Dean and then come back to us with the evidence that they pander to the liberals.
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Old 08-18-2003, 02:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Did anyone see that panel where O'Reilly and Franken were featured guests on C-Span a few months ago? It quickly degenerated into O'Reilly yelling at Franken to shut up.

I have to give props to anyone who pisses off a jackass like O'Reilly, because let's face it, pissing people off is funny.
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Old 08-18-2003, 03:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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O'Reilly has a history of telling his guests to shut up. Anyone remember his exchange with Jeremy Glick, whose father was killed in the World Trade Center, in February? Glick had the audacity to go on O'Reilly's program and not support the impending war in Iraq. O'Reilly, the Inside Edition host extraordinaire, told Glick to shut up as well.

As to the 30 years of research showing a liberal media bias, I would appreciate being directed to any of these studies.
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Old 08-18-2003, 07:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I can't really help you with those studies but this is an interesting source:

http://www.whatliberalmedia.com/
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Old 08-19-2003, 10:14 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Here's O'Reilly's lame response:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/idea...5p-99223c.html

Quote:
Calling Al Franken a satirist is a farce

In a few weeks, the Fox News Channel will celebrate its seventh birthday awash in publicity and success. From virtually nothing, the organization that employs me has risen up to become one of the most powerful news agencies in the country. This is a stunning achievement, but it's also one that has engendered bitterness and controversy.

Fox has succeeded by mixing a populist-traditional, pro-American editorial posture with lively debate that includes voices the traditional network news organizations would never allow airtime.

The accusation that Fox is a conservative network is pure propaganda. Poll after poll has demonstrated that Fox's audience is across the board, ideologically and demographically. The latest survey taken by Mediamark Research finds that more ultraconservative viewers watch CNN than Fox.

But facts don't matter to the Fox haters who are, themselves, primarily ultraliberal. The dominance of Fox in the cable news world has shattered the stranglehold the left had on TV news for decades, and that has caused fear and loathing in some political circles.

Using liberal-leaning newspapers and publishing houses, the critics of Fox have unleashed defamatory personal attacks on me and other Fox news analysts and have attempted to denigrate the entire network. If Fox News crashed and burned tomorrow, these people would toast marshmallows in the flames.

Now Fox News is striking back by putting the demonizers on notice that they will be held responsible when they violate trademarks or launch defamatory personal attacks on Fox personnel.

It is simply a sorry joke to see a political activist like Al Franken labeled a satirist by The New York Times. Attempting to smear and destroy the reputations of those with whom you politically disagree is not satire. If that were the case, Richard Nixon's Watergate plumbers would all be writing for "Saturday Night Live."

Fox News has become the highest-rated news network on cable because we feature lively debate and all honest voices are welcome. We don't do drive-by character assassinations, and we don't denigrate opposing points of view by launching gratuitous personal attacks. Fox's presentation is in the tradition of the raucous town meeting where passion and conviction are on display. We challenge people of all political persuasions.

It makes me sick to see intellectually dishonest individuals hide behind the First Amendment to spread propaganda, libel and slander. But this is a growing trend in America, where the exchange of ideas often degenerates into verbal mud wrestling with intent to injure. The poo-bahs at The Times know what a smear campaign is, but apparently, if it's directed at an enterprise the paper disapproves of, it's okay. I wonder how The Times' editorialists would react if their faces graced a book cover accompanied by the word "liar." Oh, right, they'd consider it satire.

This country is a better place because Fox News has succeeded. Now there is a wider range of thought and expression available 2-4/7. But the country is worse off because of the brutal repercussions of that success. A nation that prides itself on diversity of opinion and acceptance of differing political points of view is being subjected to an orgy of media defamation and sometimes outright hatred.

And satire has nothing to do with it.

Originally published on August 18, 2003
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:46 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Jesus, did he actually write that? I sort of expected a more polished writing style from Bill. I'd guess he hasn't read this or any of Al's other books. And all this from a guy who makes his debating point by shouting down the other guy. If Fox was really so even in their reporting, they wouldn't have to trademark "Fair and Balanced." Methinks the lady doth protest too much...
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Old 08-19-2003, 01:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Bill O'Reilly is speaking of intellectual dishonesty?

That's like OJ Simpson giving a seminar on domestic violence at a women's shelter.
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Old 08-19-2003, 04:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JumpinJesus
Bill O'Reilly is speaking of intellectual dishonesty?

That's like OJ Simpson giving a seminar on domestic violence at a women's shelter.
Someone's read Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot...
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Old 08-21-2003, 10:59 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I can be a political commentator because i'm good enough, im smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:03 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Actually, you only need about half of the people to like you. And if that half likes you, then the other side automatically hates you.
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:07 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I can't wait to read this - Franken cracks me up... and his timing is good!
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Old 08-22-2003, 04:49 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I think they arranged the publicity and are going to split the profits. If you don't want anyone to buy the book don't mention it. All it does is raise curiosity. I think Franken is an socialist ass.
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Old 08-22-2003, 02:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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haha, judge refused the lawsuit.

Quote:
Fox Loses Bid to Stop Sale of Franken Book

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge on Friday slammed Fox News' trademark infringement lawsuit against humorist Al Franken and his publisher Penguin Group and refused to stop the sale of the satirist's new book that pokes fun at Fox and host Bill O'Reilly.

Fox charged that Franken had violated its trademarked phrase "fair and balanced" by including it on the cover of his book entitled "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them." Fox is owned by News Corp and Penguin is a unit of Pearson . The book went on sale on Thursday.


"There are hard cases and there are easy cases. This is an easy case," said U.S. District Judge Denny Chin, who added that the motion for an injunction was "wholly without merit."


He said it is highly unlikely that consumers would be misled to think that Fox is sponsoring the book. He also said the trademark is weak.
long live al franken and may he publish a lot more books like this one.
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Old 08-22-2003, 04:26 PM   #34 (permalink)
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The funniest part of this whole thing is that many of FOX's pundits - O'Reilly, Hannity, Hume etc. - often condemn the litigious nature of America. Now, when things don't go the way they like, what do they do? They start litigation. It really strikes me as funny.
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Old 08-22-2003, 04:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Today's been a good day for slapping down the asshats. Not only did the Justice in Alabama get suspended, but Fox's bid to stop the publication of Al Franken's book (the media trying to chill free speech ... amazing) was slapped down by the courts. To quote the judge:

Quote:
"There are hard cases and there are easy cases. This is an easy case," said U.S. District Judge Denny Chin. "This case is wholly without merit both factually and legally."

"Parody is a form of artistic expression protected by the First Amendment. The keystone to parody is imitation. Mr. Franken is clearly mocking Fox," said Chin.
Hooray for sanity.
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Old 08-22-2003, 04:58 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Fux News latest tag line: "Without merit both factually and legally."

It would be truth in advertising at the very least.

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Old 08-25-2003, 10:49 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Regardless of who wins the suit, frankens pocket book will be the real winner. Not sure what fox was thinking with this one but holly free publicity moron man.
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Old 08-26-2003, 04:45 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I got this book yesterday and can't put it down. It is a great read! Pick it up today if you have not already.
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Old 09-01-2003, 03:15 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Al Franken is a damned funny satirist. Unfortunately he is also a socialist and a liberal (The two really are synonomous, by the way). I think this is a deliberate move on the part of Foz and o'Reilly to stir up numbers by gaining a publicity of their own. Now the liberals will want to tune in just to razx the network and in so doing will increase their viewer shares.
the name of the game is $$$.
Al Franken and Bill O'Reilly remind me of Andy Kaufman and his wrestler nemesis.
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