Are you better off? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

HarmlessRabbit · 08-08-2003, 09:08 PM

http://www.buzzflash.com/AreYouBetterOff/

A summary:

Unemployment

Under Bush and Bush Sr., unemployment has risen every year of their term. Under Clinton, unemployment dropped every year.

Job creation

Under Bush and Bush Sr., job creation was tepid or negative. Under Clinton, over 20 million jobs were created.

Stock market

Under Clinton, the market hit an all-time high. Under Bush, the market has dropped.

Deficit

Under Clinton, the budget was balanced. Under both Bush's, we have deficits.

I sure hope those Bush tax cuts start working soon!!! Also, note the nice postcards of these statistics that you can order to send to friends!

The_Dude · 08-08-2003, 09:11 PM

yeah, it sux ass right now.

i'd trade for the good ol' days!

hobo · 08-08-2003, 11:48 PM

I remember how nice everything was back when Clinton was the guy on TV from the US. Every had money, jobs, and the biggest news was that Clinton cheated on his wife (like how many other American men?) and somehow that made him unfit to lead in the public eye. I understand that he did lie, but it wasn't serious. Everyone lies, his lie didn't hurt anyone. If I recall, the real reason that people were so shocked that he cheated was because Monica was fat back then. People were saying "He is the President and he can't do better than some fat chick?" Would people have understood it better if she was hot?

I want Clinton to be President again. why can't the US be like Canada, offer unlimited terms to their leaders. We've had some Prime Ministers for like 13 years straight or something like that. If people like him, he keeps on working. Since it takes an election, it isn't like you have a dictator if he keeps winning.

Gorgo · 08-08-2003, 11:48 PM

I am definitely NOT better off.

Freaking Bushs need to stay out of politics, they come thru like Tornados and just leave a mess of broken lives and homes.

Zeld2.0 · 08-08-2003, 11:59 PM

Whats funny, of course, is the fact that people say we're better off (or they say we're not but will vote bush on party lines / stance anyways).

That being said, you know whats hilarious? Out of all the democrat candidates right now, if bill clinton was added in to the list, more than 40% would vote him than any other.

hobo · 08-09-2003, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeld2.0
Whats funny, of course, is the fact that people say we're better off (or they say we're not but will vote bush on party lines / stance anyways).

That being said, you know whats hilarious? Out of all the democrat candidates right now, if bill clinton was added in to the list, more than 40% would vote him than any other.

That is because he is a Dem that is a true leader. None of the candidates right now are really standing out. Clinton is a respected leader around the world and people want to see him. I'd vote for him if under some strange circumstances he was to become a Canadian and somehow was allowed to run for Prime Minister. I assume he'd be a Liberal. Then again, almost anyone that is Liberal can win an election in Canada. The Conservatives are not getting into power in Canada again for a long time.

The_Dude · 08-09-2003, 09:43 AM

we'll need an ammendment for clinton to run again.

and the 2 term rule was imposed of FDR. he became too much like a dictator ruling for all those years and people didnt like it.

ctembreull · 08-09-2003, 09:47 AM

hobo: It's very difficult for a "leader" to emerge in such a crowded field of candidates. For a real leader, we'll need to wait until the first few primaries; most of the bottomfeeders (e.g. Sharpton, Braun, probably Kucinich) will drop out, and there'll be a hierarchy more clearly defined in the Democratic primary race. Once that's handled, then we'll see if we've got a leader in that bunch. I think we do, in John Kerry, but that's merely my opinion. I also think you'll see Bill Clinton endorse someone after the first few primaries, and that candidate will be marked as the "leader" in the eyes of most Democrats. What he can actually *do* with the title, though, remains entirely to be seen. But you're right in stating that Clinton is a natural leader. He's a marvelous orator and a political genius to boot. And he has flaws that make him appear human, which makes him just that much more popular.

reconmike · 08-09-2003, 10:03 AM

I am much better off,

From higher wages, to lower interest on my mortgage.

I compared my tax returns from when Slick willie was in the big white house and now with GW.
Seems my tax burden is thousands less(over 3,500) now with GW.

There is plenty of work here in Jersey for anyone willing to work.

And it is pity Rabbit you failed to mention the world stage when comparing the two.

But that is par for the course though.

omnigod · 08-09-2003, 10:28 AM

Im AM better off, and im a poor college student farm boy. The last year of the clinton administration my college funds stock dropped dramaticly, so i blame clinton for that, right now i am making money again - i praise bush for that.

omnigod · 08-09-2003, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
we'll need an ammendment for clinton to run again.

and the 2 term rule was imposed of FDR. he became too much like a dictator ruling for all those years and people didnt like it.

Could you show proof that he was too much like a dictator. I did not grow up in his era, but the what was taught in school (in Nevada, and in Kansas) there was no mention of him becoming "too much like a dictator", and with everyone there are supporters and haters, i'm betting when you say "people didnt like it" you are refering to his haters.

HarmlessRabbit · 08-09-2003, 10:35 AM

And it is pity Rabbit you failed to mention the world stage when comparing the two.

You make a good point, ReconMike. It's difficult, however, to quantitize how much better Clinton was compared to Bush in international politics. I suppose maybe we could measure dislike of the USA by non-americans.

I'll start with the statistics here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in556771.shtml

and see what I can come up with. Thanks for the suggestion!

The_Dude · 08-09-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by omnigod
Could you show proof that he was too much like a dictator. I did not grow up in his era, but the what was taught in school (in Nevada, and in Kansas) there was no mention of him becoming "too much like a dictator", and with everyone there are supporters and haters, i'm betting when you say "people didnt like it" you are refering to his haters.

i'm a fan of fdr, but that's what i was taught in my high school.

look @ the things he tried to do. he increased govt spending a lot, he tried to pack the supreme court and a lot of other things that would have been something a US prez didnt do.

HarmlessRabbit · 08-09-2003, 10:48 AM

look @ the things he tried to do. he increased govt spending a lot, he tried to pack the supreme court and a lot of other things that would have been something a US prez didnt do.

add in "tried to trample existing civil rights and personal freedoms" and it sounds like Bush.

sixate · 08-09-2003, 11:39 AM

I make a little more money than I was when Clinton was in office, but that doesn't mean shit. Do any of you actually think that the economy would have been different after 9/11 if Clinton was still in office? No fucking way.

HarmlessRabbit · 08-09-2003, 11:48 AM

Do any of you actually think that the economy would have been different after 9/11 if Clinton was still in office? 

Bush was doing damage to the economy before 9/11, so your argument is a non-starter. Folllow the link and look at the data and sources.

Phaenx · 08-09-2003, 11:52 AM

Hey, the economy was doing damage to the economy before the election. I don't want to pin it on Clinton, but it was growing before he came in, and started slipping before he left. It's an erratic beast, too hard to say anything accurate about it.

skysooner · 08-09-2003, 12:14 PM

Everything in life is cyclical. That is why we go through these periods of recession and then growth. The first Bush had a war to deal with and the aftermath of the Cold War when the economy was headed south. Clinton was there during the growth of the Internet. The second Bush has had to deal with 9/11 and the slowdown in the economy from that. Clinton was so good in international politics because he did absolutely nothing unless it was completely necessary. It is amazing how politicians get away with not doing anything at all (and looking good doing it). I'm not saying this Bush is all that great, but at least we are dealing with problems instead of sweeping them under a rug. The ability of a President to control how the economy does is very limited, and we tend to overestimate this to a great degree. Good times will be coming since it is part of the cycle.

reconmike · 08-09-2003, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
And it is pity Rabbit you failed to mention the world stage when comparing the two.

You make a good point, ReconMike. It's difficult, however, to quantitize how much better Clinton was compared to Bush in international politics. I suppose maybe we could measure dislike of the USA by non-americans.

I'll start with the statistics here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in556771.shtml

and see what I can come up with. Thanks for the suggestion!

You can call me an arrogant American but,
I really do not give a rats ass about what the world thinks of me or my country.

However I do want the world to know that if you cross the US an ass whoopin is in your very immediate future.

The strongest are always envied and hated because the weak wish it was them.

edited

splck · 08-09-2003, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reconmike
You can call me an arrogant American but,
I really do not give a rats ass about what the world thinks of me or my country.

However I do want the world to know that if you cross the US an ass whoopin is in your very immediate future.

The strongest are always envied and hated because the weak wish it was them.

found this too

It's plain to see you don't give rats ass about other people in the world, but for the sake of future generations of your people it might be time to change this way of thinking.
I really don't think americans are envied as much as you think.

As for being better off with Bush as pres...I think the whole Western world is worse off with him at the helm.

Zeld2.0 · 08-09-2003, 02:23 PM

its not as much anti-american as anti-bush

its funny because it seems that if any president other than bush were at the helm, the us might actually be supported (oh the irony)

JumpinJesus · 08-09-2003, 04:44 PM

Actually, I'm better off than I was 4 years ago. But that's because I graduated college, got a much better paying job, and got married. However, I had to fork over an additional $600 to the IRS this year. It's the first time I didn't get a refund. What tax cut?

As to America being the envy of the world. I'm not so sure about that. I didn't perceive so much envy as I did disdain whilst living abroad. We're viewed as arrogant and obnoxious by many in the world. I wouldn't consider these envy-inducing qualities.

I actually heard an American say "Why don't they speak f'ing English" while in foreign speaking country after she couldn't understand what the store clerk was saying.

Xell101 · 08-09-2003, 05:05 PM

Bush didn't wreck the economy despite what you may believe.

ctembreull · 08-09-2003, 06:42 PM

Xell101

I don't think Bush "wrecked" the economy, but I'm quite sure that he or any other supply-side conservative is the wrong person to have in office when the economy is bad. If you absolutely must slum it and have a Republican, get a fiscal conservative. But any Reagan Republican will only take that soft economy and make it ten times worse than it would have been with a fiscal conservative in office. Better still is a centrist Democrat. They tend to be fiscally conservative but they also make people feel good about themselves and their future, which is one of the key pillars of a healthy economy.

irseg · 08-09-2003, 10:08 PM

Of course I'm better off.

I work my ass off. Not just as an employee, but independently as well. I don't give a fuck about what the stock market is doing or who is occupying the White House at the moment, all I care about is *MY* acheivements and success.

And considering the Democrats want to steal massive amounts of my money to give it to undeserving pieces of shit who can't be bothered to work and the president isn't that important to the economy anyway (the tech boom/bust had nothing to do with anything, it was all Clinton and Bush

), I'm glad Bush is President.

HarmlessRabbit · 08-10-2003, 08:19 AM

And considering the Democrats want to steal massive amounts of my money to give it to undeserving pieces of shit who can't be bothered to work

That's funny, considering that bush is running up massive deficits. (Who do you think has to pay those deficits back?) Bush basically just charged up the federal credit card to give you a few dollars, but the bill is going to come due soon.

Also, the republicans already stole massive amount of your money and gave it to undeserving people. One of those was Ken Lay, who still is a free multimillionaire. There are many others.

You say you don't care about the stock market. Unfortunately, your retirement depends on it. Do you have a 401(k)? If not, how do you plan on retiring?

Zeld2.0 · 08-10-2003, 11:31 AM

Ironically, Republicans who are usually anti-big gov't, only in the recent years, have turned away from that doctrine. its true that big gov't is usually associated with social programs, but big gov't now is more often the result of expansion of military programs than of anything else. The Pentagon is by far the biggest part o the U.S. gov't and it is growing so fast it is going to cost more than all other military establishments combined (in the world duh).

Personally the entire big-gov't thing has slowly slipped from the old conservative style with more bureaucracy like Homeland Security and other big parts of the gov't now.

I was always for smaller gov't but it seems people love to bash just social programs and need to realize the military itself has gone way out and above what is needed and is now soaking up more money than anything else.

Conclamo Ludus · 08-11-2003, 08:07 AM

I'm better off. But I can't say that the majority of Americans are. I'm working hard, working hard to stay working hard, and reaping the benefits of working hard.

Darkblack · 08-11-2003, 08:25 AM

Edited. Are we having fun yet? I'm not...

reconmike · 08-11-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkblack
edited...and the warnings are flying...

Why thank you very much

XenuHubbard · 08-11-2003, 11:10 PM

edited...and no "keep it nice", but a warning instead...

*Waiting for serious, bold, yellow letters telling us to keep it nice*

mystmarimatt · 08-12-2003, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reconmike
However I do want the world to know that if you cross the US an ass whoopin is in your very immediate future.

Woah dude, cuz lord knows those Iraqi's, they sure crossed us a whole lot, they completely deserved everything they got. I'm like, so totally grateful we found and got rid of all those WMP, phew, i can sleep soundly at at night.

edited...yet again

And is my life better...nope, not that much worse, other than money being tight, but my parents' jobs are pretty secure. although i can't say he same for many of my friends' family's. on a side note, you can call FDR a dictator, i don't agree whatsoever, he was reelected, he didn't exactly put on a coup de ta, and people honestly loved him as a leader, he was brilliant. But, if you insist... i'd still take a lifetime of dictatorship under FDR over a single term under Bush.

reconmike · 08-12-2003, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mystmarimatt
Woah dude, cuz lord knows those Iraqi's, they sure crossed us a whole lot, they completely deserved everything they got. I'm like, so totally grateful we found and got rid of all those WMP, phew, i can sleep soundly at at night.

edited

I am glad you agree they got what they deserved, after about 100 warnings to cooperate with the great UN and it's inspectors they still refused to.

Talking was over, GW backed up his threats.

And the arab world is saying the same about me and my country,

If I close my eyes I can still see their bodies all over from the first gulf war.

splck · 08-12-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reconmike

If I close my eyes I can still see their bodies all over from the first gulf war.

And this is a good thing?
okie dokie

sportsrule101 · 08-12-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkblack
edited..and really getting pissed off

I think what he was trying to state is .... those who want to kill us.
You start wars to prevent future wars
You cut down trees to save trees
You spend money to make money.

one other thing the economy was starting the downslide while clinton was still in charge.

HarmlessRabbit · 08-12-2003, 09:33 AM

Quote:

I think what he was trying to state is .... those who want to kill us.
You start wars to prevent future wars
You cut down trees to save trees
You spend money to make money.

This is a great theme, let's expand it:

You tax to prevent taxing.
You deficit spend to solve the deficit.
You lie to stop lying.
You rape to stop rape.
You murder to prevent murder.
You torture to reduce torture.
War is victory.
Ignorance is strength.

mystmarimatt · 08-12-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sportsrule101
I think what he was trying to state is .... those who want to kill us.
You start wars to prevent future wars
You cut down trees to save trees
You spend money to make money.

one other thing the economy was starting the downslide while clinton was still in charge.

sportsrule, tell me, is ignorance bliss like they say it is?

sportsrule101 · 08-13-2003, 06:31 AM

Wow you guys are on top of things,
You thin forests out to prevent the raging forest fires that they have every year out west.
You invest money and buy items to increase your wealth
you disable orginizations and countrys that fund these orginizations so they won't attack in the future.
Nothing too hard to understand, unless you have no logic pattern.

Xell101 · 08-13-2003, 09:18 AM

Quote:

You deficit spend to solve the deficit.
You murder to prevent murder.
You torture to reduce torture.
War is victory.

Yeup, those actually work.

Lebell · 08-13-2003, 10:39 AM

Eight edits...enough is enough people.

Anger is fine. Debate is fine.

Disrespecting entire cultures/religions/races etc. is NOT.

Thread Locked.

08-08-2003, 09:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	Are you better off? http://www.buzzflash.com/AreYouBetterOff/ A summary: <b>Unemployment</b> Under Bush and Bush Sr., unemployment has risen every year of their term. Under Clinton, unemployment dropped every year. <b>Job creation</b> Under Bush and Bush Sr., job creation was tepid or negative. Under Clinton, over 20 million jobs were created. <b>Stock market</b> Under Clinton, the market hit an all-time high. Under Bush, the market has dropped. <b>Deficit</b> Under Clinton, the budget was balanced. Under both Bush's, we have deficits. I sure hope those Bush tax cuts start working soon!!! Also, note the nice postcards of these statistics that you can order to send to friends!

08-08-2003, 09:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	yeah, it sux ass right now. i'd trade for the good ol' days! __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-08-2003, 11:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
Gorgo Tilted Location: Tampa Bay, Florida	I am definitely NOT better off. Freaking Bushs need to stay out of politics, they come thru like Tornados and just leave a mess of broken lives and homes. __________________ Will Code for food . . .

08-09-2003, 09:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	we'll need an ammendment for clinton to run again. and the 2 term rule was imposed of FDR. he became too much like a dictator ruling for all those years and people didnt like it. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-09-2003, 09:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
ctembreull Crazy Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth	hobo: It's very difficult for a "leader" to emerge in such a crowded field of candidates. For a real leader, we'll need to wait until the first few primaries; most of the bottomfeeders (e.g. Sharpton, Braun, probably Kucinich) will drop out, and there'll be a hierarchy more clearly defined in the Democratic primary race. Once that's handled, then we'll see if we've got a leader in that bunch. I think we do, in John Kerry, but that's merely my opinion. I also think you'll see Bill Clinton endorse someone after the first few primaries, and that candidate will be marked as the "leader" in the eyes of most Democrats. What he can actually do with the title, though, remains entirely to be seen. But you're right in stating that Clinton is a natural leader. He's a marvelous orator and a political genius to boot. And he has flaws that make him appear human, which makes him just that much more popular. __________________ Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap!

08-08-2003, 11:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
hobo Archangel of Change	I remember how nice everything was back when Clinton was the guy on TV from the US. Every had money, jobs, and the biggest news was that Clinton cheated on his wife (like how many other American men?) and somehow that made him unfit to lead in the public eye. I understand that he did lie, but it wasn't serious. Everyone lies, his lie didn't hurt anyone. If I recall, the real reason that people were so shocked that he cheated was because Monica was fat back then. People were saying "He is the President and he can't do better than some fat chick?" Would people have understood it better if she was hot? I want Clinton to be President again. why can't the US be like Canada, offer unlimited terms to their leaders. We've had some Prime Ministers for like 13 years straight or something like that. If people like him, he keeps on working. Since it takes an election, it isn't like you have a dictator if he keeps winning.

08-08-2003, 11:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Whats funny, of course, is the fact that people say we're better off (or they say we're not but will vote bush on party lines / stance anyways). That being said, you know whats hilarious? Out of all the democrat candidates right now, if bill clinton was added in to the list, more than 40% would vote him than any other.

08-09-2003, 10:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	I am much better off, From higher wages, to lower interest on my mortgage. I compared my tax returns from when Slick willie was in the big white house and now with GW. Seems my tax burden is thousands less(over 3,500) now with GW. There is plenty of work here in Jersey for anyone willing to work. And it is pity Rabbit you failed to mention the world stage when comparing the two. But that is par for the course though. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

08-09-2003, 10:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
omnigod Tilted	Im AM better off, and im a poor college student farm boy. The last year of the clinton administration my college funds stock dropped dramaticly, so i blame clinton for that, right now i am making money again - i praise bush for that.

08-09-2003, 10:35 AM	#12 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	<b>And it is pity Rabbit you failed to mention the world stage when comparing the two.</b> You make a good point, ReconMike. It's difficult, however, to quantitize how much better Clinton was compared to Bush in international politics. I suppose maybe we could measure dislike of the USA by non-americans. I'll start with the statistics here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in556771.shtml and see what I can come up with. Thanks for the suggestion!

08-09-2003, 10:48 AM	#14 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	<b>look @ the things he tried to do. he increased govt spending a lot, he tried to pack the supreme court and a lot of other things that would have been something a US prez didnt do.</b> add in "tried to trample existing civil rights and personal freedoms" and it sounds like Bush.

08-09-2003, 11:39 AM	#15 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	I make a little more money than I was when Clinton was in office, but that doesn't mean shit. Do any of you actually think that the economy would have been different after 9/11 if Clinton was still in office? No fucking way.

08-09-2003, 11:48 AM	#16 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	<b>Do any of you actually think that the economy would have been different after 9/11 if Clinton was still in office? </b> Bush was doing damage to the economy before 9/11, so your argument is a non-starter. Folllow the link and look at the data and sources.

08-09-2003, 11:52 AM	#17 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Hey, the economy was doing damage to the economy before the election. I don't want to pin it on Clinton, but it was growing before he came in, and started slipping before he left. It's an erratic beast, too hard to say anything accurate about it. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

08-09-2003, 12:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	Everything in life is cyclical. That is why we go through these periods of recession and then growth. The first Bush had a war to deal with and the aftermath of the Cold War when the economy was headed south. Clinton was there during the growth of the Internet. The second Bush has had to deal with 9/11 and the slowdown in the economy from that. Clinton was so good in international politics because he did absolutely nothing unless it was completely necessary. It is amazing how politicians get away with not doing anything at all (and looking good doing it). I'm not saying this Bush is all that great, but at least we are dealing with problems instead of sweeping them under a rug. The ability of a President to control how the economy does is very limited, and we tend to overestimate this to a great degree. Good times will be coming since it is part of the cycle.

08-09-2003, 02:23 PM	#21 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	its not as much anti-american as anti-bush its funny because it seems that if any president other than bush were at the helm, the us might actually be supported (oh the irony)

08-09-2003, 04:44 PM	#22 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	Actually, I'm better off than I was 4 years ago. But that's because I graduated college, got a much better paying job, and got married. However, I had to fork over an additional $600 to the IRS this year. It's the first time I didn't get a refund. What tax cut? As to America being the envy of the world. I'm not so sure about that. I didn't perceive so much envy as I did disdain whilst living abroad. We're viewed as arrogant and obnoxious by many in the world. I wouldn't consider these envy-inducing qualities. I actually heard an American say "Why don't they speak f'ing English" while in <i>foreign speaking</i> country after she couldn't understand what the store clerk was saying. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

08-09-2003, 05:05 PM	#23 (permalink)
Xell101 Junkie	Bush didn't wreck the economy despite what you may believe.

08-09-2003, 06:42 PM	#24 (permalink)
ctembreull Crazy Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth	Xell101 I don't think Bush "wrecked" the economy, but I'm quite sure that he or any other supply-side conservative is the wrong person to have in office when the economy is bad. If you absolutely must slum it and have a Republican, get a fiscal conservative. But any Reagan Republican will only take that soft economy and make it ten times worse than it would have been with a fiscal conservative in office. Better still is a centrist Democrat. They tend to be fiscally conservative but they also make people feel good about themselves and their future, which is one of the key pillars of a healthy economy. __________________ Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap!

08-09-2003, 10:08 PM	#25 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	Of course I'm better off. I work my ass off. Not just as an employee, but independently as well. I don't give a fuck about what the stock market is doing or who is occupying the White House at the moment, all I care about is MY acheivements and success. And considering the Democrats want to steal massive amounts of my money to give it to undeserving pieces of shit who can't be bothered to work and the president isn't that important to the economy anyway (the tech boom/bust had nothing to do with anything, it was all Clinton and Bush ), I'm glad Bush is President.

08-10-2003, 08:19 AM	#26 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	<i>And considering the Democrats want to steal massive amounts of my money to give it to undeserving pieces of shit who can't be bothered to work</i> That's funny, considering that bush is running up massive deficits. (Who do you think has to pay those deficits back?) Bush basically just charged up the federal credit card to give you a few dollars, but the bill is going to come due soon. Also, the republicans already stole massive amount of your money and gave it to undeserving people. One of those was Ken Lay, who still is a free multimillionaire. There are many others. You say you don't care about the stock market. Unfortunately, your retirement depends on it. Do you have a 401(k)? If not, how do you plan on retiring?

08-10-2003, 11:31 AM	#27 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Ironically, Republicans who are usually anti-big gov't, only in the recent years, have turned away from that doctrine. its true that big gov't is usually associated with social programs, but big gov't now is more often the result of expansion of military programs than of anything else. The Pentagon is by far the biggest part o the U.S. gov't and it is growing so fast it is going to cost more than all other military establishments combined (in the world duh). Personally the entire big-gov't thing has slowly slipped from the old conservative style with more bureaucracy like Homeland Security and other big parts of the gov't now. I was always for smaller gov't but it seems people love to bash just social programs and need to realize the military itself has gone way out and above what is needed and is now soaking up more money than anything else.

08-11-2003, 08:07 AM	#28 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	I'm better off. But I can't say that the majority of Americans are. I'm working hard, working hard to stay working hard, and reaping the benefits of working hard. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

08-11-2003, 08:25 AM	#29 (permalink)
Darkblack Banned Location: Pennsytuckia	Edited. Are we having fun yet? I'm not... Last edited by Lebell; 08-13-2003 at 10:28 AM..

08-11-2003, 11:10 PM	#31 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	edited...and no "keep it nice", but a warning instead... Waiting for serious, bold, yellow letters telling us to keep it nice __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000 Last edited by Lebell; 08-13-2003 at 10:30 AM..

08-13-2003, 06:31 AM	#38 (permalink)
sportsrule101 Insane	Wow you guys are on top of things, You thin forests out to prevent the raging forest fires that they have every year out west. You invest money and buy items to increase your wealth you disable orginizations and countrys that fund these orginizations so they won't attack in the future. Nothing too hard to understand, unless you have no logic pattern. __________________ winning isn't everything but losing isn't anything

08-13-2003, 10:39 AM	#40 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Eight edits...enough is enough people. Anger is fine. Debate is fine. Disrespecting entire cultures/religions/races etc. is NOT. Thread Locked. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!