The 507th. Heros? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Vogad · 08-04-2003, 06:07 AM

Jessica Lynch gets the "Bronze Star" for heroism

A "Campaign Ribbon", "POW" medal, and "Purple Heart" are justly earned. But a "Bronze Star"???
Better yet, a Court Martial for the Captain who allowed his unit to get split up and ambushed because he tryed to take a short cut (he thought!) and was too vain to radio for assistance. At least the Sgt (2nd group) showed a little leadership and radioed for help, and was recued by the MARINES. Then again the Captain probable remembered the lectures(at canidate school/WestPoint) of the humiliation the Army took when the MARINES save their butt (the impossible Pusan landing behind enemy lines!) in Korea.

Yea. I'm biased.....twenty years as a Storm Troop (MARINE)....

Anybody know where to get a copy of her "BS" (BronzeStar or BullShit, take your pick) citation???

The_Dude · 08-04-2003, 11:50 AM

wait a sec...what kinda heroism did she display to get the bronze star?? she was captured yes...but she didnt escape on her own.

her rescue did boost the morale of the troops there, but that is no reason to award the bronze star.

i quote the army "The Bronze Star is given for meritorious service in combat" and i havent seen any "meritorious service" either.

according to dateline, the humvee carrying lynch rammed into one of the other vehicles after the driver lost control. so, when somebody checked up on the humvee, he thought everyone in there was dead.

Prophecy · 08-04-2003, 03:40 PM

It sounds to me like this is just another attempt to raise support for what has happened and what is still happening over seas.

KillerYoda · 08-04-2003, 04:27 PM

From what I've ever read on this sort of stuff, they tend to "give away" bronze stars rather easily. They made a few jokes about people getting relatively unearned bronze stars in <i>Band of Brothers</i> since they just kind of gave them away to various people so they could get enough points to earn their ride back home. No offense to anyone who's earned one, just stating fact.

Kabsnow · 08-04-2003, 05:30 PM

yeah i'm confused as to why the media is calling jessica lynch a hero... she just layed there and she got rescued.

oh yeah · 08-04-2003, 05:54 PM

I think lately the term hero is used too much. I think without a doubt all of the troops deserve our respect. War is a terrible situation to be involved in and you do need to be a strong (physically, emotionally, and mentally) person. However, just because you are a soldier doesnt mean you are a hero. Being a prisoner of war is also a terrible thing but that is not a hero either (unless you withheld valuable info even though they are torturing you). To be classified as a hero you need to do something that seperates you from everyone else amd that is very benefitual for your side.

John Falcon · 08-04-2003, 07:28 PM

It was the same thing with Cpt. Scott O'Grady in 1995. His F-16 was shot down over Bosnia. He lived off of rain water and by eating bugs. Six days later the Marines rescued him.

The media made him out to be a big hero, cover of magazines and everything.

So why isn't the pilots who dodged the missiles heros? Why weren't the rescuers shaking hands with the President?

In my book you're not a hero for saving your own ass. You're a hero for saving someone else's.

The_Dude · 08-04-2003, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Falcon
In my book you're not a hero for saving your own ass. You're a hero for saving someone else's.

the 507th was not a combat brigade (or unit or wahtever). it was mechanic.

and according to your def, would lynch be a hero?

John Falcon · 08-04-2003, 08:00 PM

I dunno. Did she do anything heroic before she was captured? The 'official' story keeps changing.

Fred181 · 08-04-2003, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Falcon
It was the same thing with Cpt. Scott O'Grady in 1995. His F-16 was shot down over Bosnia. He lived off of rain water and by eating bugs. Six days later the Marines rescued him.

The media made him out to be a big hero, cover of magazines and everything.

So why isn't the pilots who dodged the missiles heros? Why weren't the rescuers shaking hands with the President?

In my book you're not a hero for saving your own ass. You're a hero for saving someone else's.

I find it hard to compare Pvt Lynch to Capt O'Grady. O'Grady was shot down over a hostile area, ejected from a wounded aircraft and evaded capture for 6 days. True, he was rescued by the marines (although any SAR organization could have done the job i.e. air force Pararescue), but I would like to see any person on this board evade capture by an enemy force while surviving off of bugs and leaves after ejecting from an aircraft. Were his rescuers heros? Most definetely. Was he? I would say so. Is Pvt Lynch? She endured more than I would guess any person on this board has...

Markaz · 08-04-2003, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Falcon
I dunno. Did she do anything heroic before she was captured? The 'official' story keeps changing.

Yah, it doesn't change a lot but from what I gather when they were trying to take her out of the hummer she was ridding in she shot a few guys, then they laid the smack down on her. Too bad those medals are handed out like candy, no offense to anyone.

Bill O'Rights · 08-05-2003, 05:25 AM

No disrespect intended to Jessica Lynch with regard to anything that she may, or may not, have gone through over there, but here I believe she is being exploited by Bush, Inc. Why was Jessica singled out? Jessica Lynch is a pretty faced, girl next door type, that plays well to the media. As such, she has become America's "Little Darling", and how dare those evil Iraqis be mean to our poor little Jessica. She is a media dream come true and the Bush administration is playing it for all that it's worth. She is deserving of several awards and citations, but definately not the Bronze Star. This only serves to devalue this award to those that truely earned it.

John Falcon · 08-05-2003, 08:09 AM

"Jessica Lynch is a pretty faced, girl next door type, that plays well to the media. As such, she has become America's "Little Darling"

Very true. You heard very little of the other females captured, the non-white ones.

reconmike · 08-05-2003, 09:41 AM

The Army has always been known to give away medals and ribbons.

My brother came home from Army boot camp with a ribbon on his uniform,
I had asked him what the ribbon was for and he said " for graduating boot camp"

With Lynch I will reserve comment untill I get to read the citation for the bronze,

she could have put up a gallant fire fight alone until they captured her,
or it could be just a feel good medal for her and the country.

John Falcon · 08-05-2003, 10:15 AM

The Army likes giving out ribbons;
-This one reminds me I went to basic
-This one reminds me I went to PLDC
-This one reminds me I went overseas
-This one reminds me I've been in for three years

etc...

The_Dude · 08-05-2003, 01:07 PM

reconmike, from what i learned, she was knocked out after the humvee crashed into the other coalition vehicle.

that's why the survivors didnt bother to take her with them. (they thought she was dead like the others in the humvee)

reconmike · 08-05-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
reconmike, from what i learned, she was knocked out after the humvee crashed into the other coalition vehicle.

that's why the survivors didnt bother to take her with them. (they thought she was dead like the others in the humvee)

Disgraceful, I guess thats the difference between the branches, never leave anyone behind...alive or dead.

John Falcon · 08-05-2003, 02:14 PM

found this;

Her citation says:

For exemplary courage under fire during combat operations to liberate Iraq, in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Private First Class Lynch's bravery and heart persevered while surviving in the ambush and captivity in An Nasiriya. Private First Class Lynch's belief in the battalion's motto "One Team, One Fight" is in keeping with the finest traditions of military service. Her honor, courage and dedication reflect great credit upon herself, 507th Maintenance Company, 3rd Infantry division, Victory Corps, and the United States Army.

The_Dude · 08-05-2003, 02:37 PM

here is a quote from one of the members who checked into the humvee.

Quote:

Miller: “I looked in to see if anybody was alive. And from my perspective, the only thing I saw was Lynch’s foot twitching. But she looked like she was dead, like everybody else in the truck.”

Charlatan · 08-07-2003, 12:27 PM

"...the only thing I saw was Lynch’s foot twitching. But she looked like she was dead, like everybody else in the truck.”

Too scared to actually check her out...

Zeld2.0 · 08-07-2003, 02:07 PM

Yeah WTF was that one honestly though...

I know Marines and Special Forces know they will NEVER leave a comrade behind, alive or dead - and will damn well risk their lives to get one dead body if needed.

The_Dude · 08-07-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlatan
"...the only thing I saw was Lynch’s foot twitching. But she looked like she was dead, like everybody else in the truck.”

Too scared to actually check her out...

no, he thought it was nerves twitching after she was dead. at least that's what the guy said on dateline. go to their site, they have a full transcript.

seretogis · 08-07-2003, 03:00 PM

As someone said earlier, a Bronze Star is nothing to really get riled up about. To be honest, I'm all in favor of giving those who are fighting and dying for our country any small ego boost that we can, even if it is most likely just a political move as it seems in this case.

A Bronze Star is not that prestigious, so settle down.

fnaqzna · 08-07-2003, 06:00 PM

If anyone attached to "echelon above corp" gets hurt... it's a foul up... not heroism.

Zeld2.0 · 08-07-2003, 07:01 PM

eh i wouldn't give it to everyone if its just for a political move

and no a bronze star isn't anything big but IMO medals should NEVER EVER be given for political reasons during a war just to boost yourself - espeically if doing so only makes the heroism and sacrifice of others in wars feel much less

IMO its a disgrace for other bronze star winners in previous wars who weren't given one just because it looked good

Daval · 08-08-2003, 05:59 AM

good thread guys, great discussion going on here.

My two cents is she didnt do anything overly heroic so shouldnt be given an award that she didnt earn.

hobo · 08-09-2003, 12:26 AM

Whoa, I never knew she was left behind. That is just wrong. If she might have been still alive, I would've checked.

I agree that she is a "pretty faced, girl next door type, that plays well to the media" and that she has become America's "Little Darling". The Bush administration is playing it for all that it's worth because there is just nothing else to boost troop moral. Notice how the people that actually DIED fighting get less attention than the people who just rescued from capture? Jessica gets a big parade and is all over TV. Every day or so a US soldier dies in Iraq, but none of them get parades or a lot of media coverage.

08-04-2003, 06:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
Vogad Registered User Location: Sooner Nation	The 507th. Heros? Jessica Lynch gets the "Bronze Star" for heroism A "Campaign Ribbon", "POW" medal, and "Purple Heart" are justly earned. But a "Bronze Star"??? Better yet, a Court Martial for the Captain who allowed his unit to get split up and ambushed because he tryed to take a short cut (he thought!) and was too vain to radio for assistance. At least the Sgt (2nd group) showed a little leadership and radioed for help, and was recued by the MARINES. Then again the Captain probable remembered the lectures(at canidate school/WestPoint) of the humiliation the Army took when the MARINES save their butt (the impossible Pusan landing behind enemy lines!) in Korea. Yea. I'm biased.....twenty years as a Storm Troop (MARINE).... Anybody know where to get a copy of her "BS" (BronzeStar or BullShit, take your pick) citation???

08-04-2003, 11:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	wait a sec...what kinda heroism did she display to get the bronze star?? she was captured yes...but she didnt escape on her own. her rescue did boost the morale of the troops there, but that is no reason to award the bronze star. i quote the army "The Bronze Star is given for meritorious service in combat" and i havent seen any "meritorious service" either. according to dateline, the humvee carrying lynch rammed into one of the other vehicles after the driver lost control. so, when somebody checked up on the humvee, he thought everyone in there was dead. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-04-2003, 03:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
Prophecy Oracle & Apollyon Location: Limbus Patrum	It sounds to me like this is just another attempt to raise support for what has happened and what is still happening over seas. __________________ La Disciplina È La Mia Spada, La Fede È Il Mio Schermo, Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza, E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

08-04-2003, 04:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
KillerYoda The Original Emo Gangsta Location: Sixth Floor, Texas School Book Depository	From what I've ever read on this sort of stuff, they tend to "give away" bronze stars rather easily. They made a few jokes about people getting relatively unearned bronze stars in <i>Band of Brothers</i> since they just kind of gave them away to various people so they could get enough points to earn their ride back home. No offense to anyone who's earned one, just stating fact. __________________ "So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

08-05-2003, 05:25 AM	#12 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	No disrespect intended to Jessica Lynch with regard to anything that she may, or may not, have gone through over there, but here I believe she is being exploited by Bush, Inc. Why was Jessica singled out? Jessica Lynch is a pretty faced, girl next door type, that plays well to the media. As such, she has become America's "Little Darling", and how dare those evil Iraqis be mean to our poor little Jessica. She is a media dream come true and the Bush administration is playing it for all that it's worth. She is deserving of several awards and citations, but definately not the Bronze Star. This only serves to devalue this award to those that truely earned it. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

08-04-2003, 05:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Kabsnow Registered User Location: CA	yeah i'm confused as to why the media is calling jessica lynch a hero... she just layed there and she got rescued.

08-04-2003, 05:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
oh yeah Tilted	I think lately the term hero is used too much. I think without a doubt all of the troops deserve our respect. War is a terrible situation to be involved in and you do need to be a strong (physically, emotionally, and mentally) person. However, just because you are a soldier doesnt mean you are a hero. Being a prisoner of war is also a terrible thing but that is not a hero either (unless you withheld valuable info even though they are torturing you). To be classified as a hero you need to do something that seperates you from everyone else amd that is very benefitual for your side.

08-04-2003, 07:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
John Falcon Psycho Location: New York, CA	It was the same thing with Cpt. Scott O'Grady in 1995. His F-16 was shot down over Bosnia. He lived off of rain water and by eating bugs. Six days later the Marines rescued him. The media made him out to be a big hero, cover of magazines and everything. So why isn't the pilots who dodged the missiles heros? Why weren't the rescuers shaking hands with the President? In my book you're not a hero for saving your own ass. You're a hero for saving someone else's.

08-04-2003, 08:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
John Falcon Psycho Location: New York, CA	I dunno. Did she do anything heroic before she was captured? The 'official' story keeps changing.

08-05-2003, 08:09 AM	#13 (permalink)
John Falcon Psycho Location: New York, CA	"Jessica Lynch is a pretty faced, girl next door type, that plays well to the media. As such, she has become America's "Little Darling" Very true. You heard very little of the other females captured, the non-white ones.

08-05-2003, 09:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	The Army has always been known to give away medals and ribbons. My brother came home from Army boot camp with a ribbon on his uniform, I had asked him what the ribbon was for and he said " for graduating boot camp" With Lynch I will reserve comment untill I get to read the citation for the bronze, she could have put up a gallant fire fight alone until they captured her, or it could be just a feel good medal for her and the country. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

08-05-2003, 10:15 AM	#15 (permalink)
John Falcon Psycho Location: New York, CA	The Army likes giving out ribbons; -This one reminds me I went to basic -This one reminds me I went to PLDC -This one reminds me I went overseas -This one reminds me I've been in for three years etc...

08-05-2003, 01:07 PM	#16 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	reconmike, from what i learned, she was knocked out after the humvee crashed into the other coalition vehicle. that's why the survivors didnt bother to take her with them. (they thought she was dead like the others in the humvee) __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-05-2003, 02:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
John Falcon Psycho Location: New York, CA	found this; Her citation says: For exemplary courage under fire during combat operations to liberate Iraq, in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Private First Class Lynch's bravery and heart persevered while surviving in the ambush and captivity in An Nasiriya. Private First Class Lynch's belief in the battalion's motto "One Team, One Fight" is in keeping with the finest traditions of military service. Her honor, courage and dedication reflect great credit upon herself, 507th Maintenance Company, 3rd Infantry division, Victory Corps, and the United States Army.

08-07-2003, 12:27 PM	#20 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	"...the only thing I saw was Lynch’s foot twitching. But she looked like she was dead, like everybody else in the truck.” Too scared to actually check her out... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-07-2003, 02:07 PM	#21 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Yeah WTF was that one honestly though... I know Marines and Special Forces know they will NEVER leave a comrade behind, alive or dead - and will damn well risk their lives to get one dead body if needed.

08-07-2003, 03:00 PM	#23 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	As someone said earlier, a Bronze Star is nothing to really get riled up about. To be honest, I'm all in favor of giving those who are fighting and dying for our country any small ego boost that we can, even if it is most likely just a political move as it seems in this case. A Bronze Star is not that prestigious, so settle down. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

08-07-2003, 06:00 PM	#24 (permalink)
fnaqzna Meat Popsicle Location: Left Coast	If anyone attached to "echelon above corp" gets hurt... it's a foul up... not heroism.

08-07-2003, 07:01 PM	#25 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	eh i wouldn't give it to everyone if its just for a political move and no a bronze star isn't anything big but IMO medals should NEVER EVER be given for political reasons during a war just to boost yourself - espeically if doing so only makes the heroism and sacrifice of others in wars feel much less IMO its a disgrace for other bronze star winners in previous wars who weren't given one just because it looked good

08-08-2003, 05:59 AM	#26 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	good thread guys, great discussion going on here. My two cents is she didnt do anything overly heroic so shouldnt be given an award that she didnt earn. __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

08-09-2003, 12:26 AM	#27 (permalink)
hobo Archangel of Change	Whoa, I never knew she was left behind. That is just wrong. If she might have been still alive, I would've checked. I agree that she is a "pretty faced, girl next door type, that plays well to the media" and that she has become America's "Little Darling". The Bush administration is playing it for all that it's worth because there is just nothing else to boost troop moral. Notice how the people that actually DIED fighting get less attention than the people who just rescued from capture? Jessica gets a big parade and is all over TV. Every day or so a US soldier dies in Iraq, but none of them get parades or a lot of media coverage.