Three points:

One, I resent the implication that I somehow "ran away". I registered for Selective Service, as do all American men, at age 18. If called, I would have served. I would have done so perhaps unwillingly, but I would have served. Tell me, did you serve in uniform? I'm genuinely curious now. And how do you feel about George W. Bush's having gone AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard?

Two, if those attitudes to which you refer were truly that common, then perhaps more attention should have been paid to the dissent in this country rather than marginalizing it and outright ignoring it. The same goes for right now. The alternative is totalitarianism, the essence of groupthink. You may disagree with those "attitudes", but that makes them no less valid than your own. And it's quite obvious that the Dixie Chicks aren't alone in their opinions.

Three: I do not support this war, but I do support our troops. Specifically, I mourn for all those killed and I want each and every one of the rest back home, whole and healthy. That's the purest form of support that can ever be offered.

None of your arguments, though, offer any justification for the treatment of dissenters in America. There *is* no valid justification for the marginalization of any opinion here in America. It's that whole "all men are created equal" thing.

Having read up about the circumstances surrounding his AWOL status I don't think it amounts to anything other then Bush is a goof ass. He claims a request for leave was made and his immediate superiors approved it, but it was denied by their superiors, this happened while he was helping with the campaign for his father running for governer I believe.

(Here's an article regarding it)

And that's coming from a liberal.

Actually, it wasn't his father's gubernatorial campaign. His father was with the CIA by that time. In fact, it was for another conservative, in Alabama. And there is no record of him being granted leave - only that he failed to show for a phyisical and drug test and had his flight status revoked.

My question remains, though: how does this make you feel about supporting Bush on military matters, given that he did "run away"?

I can guarantee you that if it had been Clinton, we'd have never heard the end of it.

Kate Hudson is an actress. Her views will not shape this country or any other country. She has the right to say whatever she pleases, just as I do. If you could speak your views on television you would anger many people also.

UT and A&M do it all the time, so I wouldn't sweat it :D

well, even if they do, they dont mean it.

Well, Clinton did run to Canada and was a fugitive from the law when he ran for governer of Arkansas, and got Carter to give him a pardon, but that's beside the point.

I always had trust in Bush in his handling of our military even though you claim what he did was "run away." I knew about this way before we even went into Afghanistan.

How would you characterize Bush's term of service, if not as "running away?" It feels like people need something to believe in, someone to follow, and they can't accept or acknowledge any flaw or weakness in that leader, so they wave them away. Can you elaborate on why you've had trust in Bush for so long?

It certainly wasn't a stellar service record. By all accounts he was fairly irresponsible, but in no way was he "running away." If you want running away, talk with your boyo Clinton, who literally "ran away."

again, PLZ dont drag clinton into where he is not needed!!

Oh, but he is. Don't get mad now that my point is this line of questioning is hypocritical. Which has ironically been a liberal spearhead for accusations lately.

This has nothing to do with the war. I am a proud American, but there are many of us who are extremely obnoxious. And Germans who come to the US are terrible dressers - sandals with black socks and shorts? Hey, nobody is perfect.

Hudson is a snob, but didn't say anything horrible. This is just an overreaction. The Dixie Chicks knocked Bush...come on...please - I think he's a decent president, but he clearly is not the brains of the operation. Listen to him speak, then listen to an articulate speaker like Tony Blair and see why some people might be "embarrassed" by Bush. It was certainly OK to knock Clinton - of whom I am no fan - for all those years without being un-American. Given the war and everything, it was a dumb thing to say, but again, this is such an overreaction.

God bless the brave troops who face grave danger every second of every day. Thanks to you all!

...quick, look over here, clinton, blah blah blah don't think about bush and what he does, clinton got head, he did worse than bush, he's worse than bush, bush isn't as bad as that guy you liberals liked...

Actually, it's quite germane. I didn't have complete trust of Clinton in military matters because he didn't serve. The point here is that Bush did, in plain fact, go AWOL and hasn't been called on it. Clinton, well, you heard an awful lot about it - 10,000 articles and more - when he was running for President. And there you have it: the double standard. Your willingness to trust a deserter to act as commander-in-chief is evidence of that.

Everyone takes what actors say with a grain of salt, because of the power and the prestige they have. They can't ever be truly down to earth because they are with people who hide behind their money. Hudson has a right to say what she wants, buts she has to know that most people don't give a crap what she says anyways.

ctembreull:

In regards to Kate Hudson dying; I did state after the fact that my "title" was a bit far-fetched. It was more an expression of my disgust for her not to be taken literally. However, if she did die, I wouldn't shed a tear.

You are sumarian, you will not be upset, so I will be upset for you! *flames light the sky*

I didn't bring it up, so hush =).

He hasn't been called on it because it's silly political spin fodder. He did return to his Texas guard unit and served until he requested an honorable discharge, which he recieved. He was an excellent pilot, he did indeed serve, and he doesn't even run the military by himself. Why shouldn't I trust him with the military? Did we lose the last two wars? Sure didn't, he's doing a fine job.

LOL!!

those wars were against enemies with 1/10000th our strength.

if u're gonna rate a president on winning wars like that, i'm sure that i can be a good prez.

It's every single bit as relevant as Clinton's Vietnam years. It also calls into question his fitness for the office - just as Clinton's draft-dodging did. So again, why hasn't he been called on it?


He never actually returned to his unit. And he was given an honorable discharge eight full months before his term of service was to end. The entire thing is shot through with evidence of political patronage and string-pulling.

And the question of whether or not we lost the last two wars is misleading at best, or a strawman argument. We supposedly went into Afghanistan to capture Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." We have not done so. We ostensibly went into Iraq to disarm that nation of weapons of mass destruction. We have not done so; we have not even found said weapons.

The question of victory is always shaped by the political objectives of a war. We have not met those objectives; at best, we have not lost these wars, but we have not concluded them, either.

Hey, the opposition here is making their case that he's a bad military leader by lying about an insignificant occurance 25 years ago.

I can't reply to your Clinton statement on the grounds that every time I do I'm accused of redirecting blame. Just kidding. I honestly didn't care about his draft dodging when he was running for office because I wanted to vote for other people for so many different reasons. What Clinton did was criminal, what Bush did was stupid, this is why he hasn't been called on it, because no matter what the democrats accuse the Republicans of, they know what their guy did was worse.

Whether he returned or didn't is not certain, Ctembruel. It's very likely there was string-pulling going on, but we're discussing whether or not what Bush did was desertion, and it's not, he served and was legally discharged.

That's so very moot my hands are starting to hurt thinking about how much arguing we'd type for the next 30 pages if I got into it. I'll just say that we're not done in both places, but if we were to leave now I would still think of them as victories.

I would like to bring us back to the overriding question of Kate Hudson.

Let's not start recounting Florida ballots.

Well, there's nothing left to say about Hudson. Humungus already retracted his wish for her death, and we're all in agreement that people are allowed to have opinions, and celebrities are going to use their position in the spotlight to express how they feel. Nothing much more to discuss about Kate, really.

My last word on the topic:

Phaenx: All the information you will require on the topic of going AWOL is right here

Everyone else:
On Kate Hudson: Her opinion, her right to use her time in the spotlight to use it. Your right to disagree with her. Not your right to call her unpatriotic nor to wish her death. At least not publicly. You can think it as long, as hard, and as loudly as you want, but stating so in public is, well, beyond the pale.

Actors and actresses can have opinions too. If it isn't yours, don't get all mad. Watch an actor who has your opinion if it means that much to you.

I will personally watch any actor/actress that is good at what they do. I don't care about their opinions. People who do and get all mad and verbally abusive about it *probably* (as in maybe but not definately) have the same mindset as those who burn witches. That mindset would be:
"They are different, kill (or get rid of) them!"

I personally like to see Kate Hudson. I think she is adorable and all kinds of cute. I also think Dennis Miller is funny. Who cares what they think, as long as I am entertained :)

She said ''Sometimes I'll be walking down the street and I'll hear some American and I'll just go, 'Of course they hate us, of course they can't stand us. We're the most annoying, boisterous creatures in the world.' I mean we come in and we eat mounds of food, and we're like, 'Where's the ketchup for our French fries.' I'm like, 'Shut up.''

I am not positive if this was the interview in its entirety. I don't see the term "disgusting creatures" here, but maybe she said it in some other part. If this is the entire disparagement, I'm not as upset about it as I was initially. She just sounds like an annoying boisterous creature to me. Is she American, by any chance?

Uhh because we're the winners in the game of the world and france are a bunch of pussy losers.

Yeah your really good with riding them bikes huh? Let a guy with one testical own you.

Must suck now that we own Iraq, to bad you can't steal their oil any more.

God i hate the french they're a useless country.

You do realise that 1 testicle would make no difference for bike riding right? Infact no testicles would be an advantage. Having only 1 might also be an advantage. It means you won't be uncomfortable and have your nuts squished while biking for hours.

Kate Hudson should live. We all agreed on that. I didn't know who her mother was until this thread, interesting. She doesn't look like her mom.

Only have one thing to say - American plumbing far superior to French. (Except for low water volume toilets. But nobody is perfect.)

I don't understand that one bit. I just know that what you say is true in the literal sense. American toilets have no power.

Japanese toilets are something to brag about. Let me tell you!

I've seen those japanese toilets. Those are... yeah, don't use those.

To everyone on this board who hates people for speaking their mind, I have some important information for you:
OUR COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE. One of the foundations for the formation of our "great nation" was the fact that we can speak out against the government. So, the next time that you spout your opinion on someone else's opinion, remember that you are exercising the very same right that the person you are against has used.

kate hudson is still a dumb bitch and can kiss my ass.

I think Rush Limbaugh should just shut the fuck up. Just because he has a microphone and is nationally syndicated doesn't mean he has all the answers. I mean, does the blowhard even have any education beyond high school? Does he have any experience serving in the military? Has he ever held elected office. Hell, has he even ever acted before in a bona fide Hollywood movie? What gives him the right to hold an opinion? Why should he be given an unfair advantage over the rest of us to spread his message? - - however ignorant or inaccurate it may be. [I am on topic, right?]

That doesn't mean they had to like each other. They ALSO didn't say "I hate this place. Bye, I'm going to France."