"Blood libel" - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 11:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

ace, you say you see "minor support role for the Republican party," but I see "leading the way towards whatever it is she thinks America needs to return to."

Look at the time line, then reconsider what I wrote.

To me it is beyond belief that people thought that she would seriously run for President after resigning as Governor mid-term. Liberals could have let the concept of her running die that moment, but for some reason they did not, why?

Of course she was not going to close the door on the possibility of running for President. who did not know that, yet the talk and attacks continued, why?

Her voice and her stature grows stronger with each attack by liberals, why don't you see that? Don't some liberals joke about loving to see her as the Republican Pary nominee? Now, I hope they get their wish.

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She's said herself that she'll do anything politically if she feels she'll succeed at it, even beating Obama.

I wish McCain had that kinda attitude - if so we would not even be discussing this.

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She's the champion of neo-Reaganomics and American exceptionalism. She knows it. I know it. And you know it.

We rarely talk about her policy positions, but I agree with the above. Are her beliefs a problem, or is the narrative that she is "ignorant" - which is it? can she be "ignorant" and be a champion of anything?

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She's a leading political reactionary,...

If she reacts to the political environment that is bad, if X responds to the political environment that is...What?

Also, she doesn't change her message, her tone, her core values. She stands strong. I don't see that as reactionary.

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and this happens to make her the leading voice in opposition to liberalism and progressive politics in the U.S. If she wanted to be a minor player, she'd spend more effort in flying below the radar rather than keeping her image polished. But we all know her strengths don't lay in gruntwork behind the scenes. They lay in being in the limelight. Her "blood libel" video is evidence of this. She could have easily made statements to the press or even held interviews. Instead she chose to make a polished video statement.

Yes, I know you want her to be Obama-like. I don't.

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Willravel

I expect right-wingers are all too eager to jump to Palin's defense. The organization you've cited which is defending Palin? They're called "Jewish Americans for Sarah Palin". I don't expect objectivity from them. Regarding Dershowitz, he said this:

Note, please, that Dershowitz has very clearly not disconnected the term from being associated with Jewish issues. Palin herself is not Jewish (by a long shot), and she was not speaking in the defense of Jewish people, but herself. She used the term incorrectly, and it's not surprising that Jewish organizations all over the world are pissed about the incorrect use of a serious accusation.

What is your point? Dershowitz is not conservative nor does he consider himself a person who supports Palin. He simply offers his honest opinion. I stated that you have a point of view that is not shared by all - hence it is a matter open to an honest discussion - yet you claim unfairly that Palin is ignorant. I shot a hole in your argument and your response to that is incoherent and it appears that you lack the ability to admit that you could be wrong on Palin being ignorant.

roachboy · 01-18-2011, 11:54 AM

ace--you aren't talking about anything. your construction of obama these days is particularly absurd. cheney did an interview yesterday in which is praised obama's foreign policy as a vindication of the bush administration's....he's talking about going after "job-killing regulation"----you may be getting triangulated again.

as for your absurd narrative about palin being resurrected through some imaginary "liberal resentment"---i don't know where you're getting your infotainment from. it's been pretty clear what sarah palin (tm) has been after. she's a political brand. whether she is able to run coherently for president or merely profits unreasonably from playing chumps like you is likely a six of one half dozen of the other matter to sarah palin inc.

your relation to the brand "sarah palin" is beyond bizarre. i don't imagine you're speaking for anyone but yourself---and i think you don't even believe this stuff--that you're just trying it out like wearing a gown to a company social event. have fun with that.

Baraka_Guru · 01-18-2011, 12:08 PM

ace, you don't seem to accept the plain fact that Palin has positioned herself as an opposing force to liberalism and progressive politics in the U.S. via a reactionary politics. The Republicans have done the same. It fuels Beck's hue and cry. To the Tea Partiers, reactionary politics is its raison d'être.

It's not that difficult.

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by aceventura3

Yes, I know you want her to be Obama-like. I don't.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

Willravel · 01-18-2011, 12:25 PM

Ace, just stop. You know Sarah Palin is an unintelligent woman. It's impossible for you not to know it. All of the dissonance in the world can't hide her consistently unintelligent statements. She's just said another stupid thing in a long line of stupid things. She's stupid. It's only a reflection on you because you're one of her inexplicable supporters. If you could peel yourself away from the dissonance for a second, you'd come to the conclusion that because she's so unintelligent, she isn't deserving of your admiration on issues which require intellect.

I invite you to suspend dissonance for a moment. Think about all the things she's said in the past, how Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, death panels, her inability to name a single newspaper or magazine, her wanting to stand with our North Korean allies, admitting that she and her family used to cross the border into Canada for better healthcare while bemoaning 'Obamacare', blaming the Gulf Oil spill on environmentalists, notes written on her hand during a convention speech, calling out Rahm Emanuel for using 'retarded', but not Limbaugh... the list is nearly endless in her two and a half years on the public stage. She's a stupid woman, Ace. Blood libel is just another in a long, long line of very stupid statements.

Even if your reading of Dershowitz is correct, and it's not, that doesn't make Sarah Palin intelligent and it doesn't make her usage correct. If Dershowitz is saying that Palin used the term correctly, then he's wrong. Blood libel doesn't mean "you aren't allowed to criticize me", which is exactly how Sarah Palin used it. It never has and likely never will.

Daniel_ · 01-18-2011, 01:52 PM

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Originally Posted by aceventura3

Palin has never said her intent was to run for President, she was not even interested in the VP slot on the McCain ticket until she was approached. She stepped down as governor of AK to move on with her life, virtually ending her political career - but liberals would not leave her alone. Liberals keep bring the issue up. Liberals are obsessed with the idea of Palin running. Liberals feel it is their job to eliminate her from a Republican run at the nomination, but what they do back fires. They think by trying to knocking her down, they build themselves up but they come across as being very foolish.

Hi Ace,

I never said SHE was putting herself into the role as potential president, but mentioned that I am shocked that she is considered a viable candidate. I meant that it is stunning to me that ANYONE believes she is the sort of person who might do it well.

mixedmedia · 01-18-2011, 01:54 PM

If Sarah Palin is so righteous and brilliant and statesmanlike, why is it that she is so lacking in a characteristic as simple as tact?

I've been sort of out of the loop lately. Life overwhelming attention to current events kind of thing. But I really don't need to see anything more than the 'crosshairs map' and the use of 'blood libel' to understand that she really is an unthinking, uncouth kind of person. Insults from the press and 'liberuls' aside. In this context, it makes the fact that I vehemently disagree with her politics secondary.

She's a boor. A female boor. And I wouldn't support her regardless of what party she belonged to.

They used to say: you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
A sentiment a long time now forgotten.

Cimarron29414 · 01-18-2011, 02:21 PM

This entire "blood libel" argument is too silly to waste time on, but I will comment on Palin.

Sorry, Ace, you have misjudged her capabilities to be President. There is something intangible which is lacking in her. There have been some adjectives thrown around in here which feel overly harsh, but a more palatable synonym would suit perfectly.

For example, I don't think she's a boor, but I do think she lacks a necessary level of sophistication to handle that unexpected situation appropriately. 99% of the time, she'd handle herself with grace and dignity. It's that 1% which matters, though.

I don't think she is stupid. However, I do believe she lacks the level of intellect that is required to command respect of other intellects - which is TERRIBLY important in diplomacy.

It isn't really about whether she could carry enough votes or not, it is whether she would be able to handle the job. She wouldn't. I can think of no circumstance where Palin would get my vote for President, and I can't wait for Obama to leave.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 02:32 PM

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Originally Posted by roachboy

ace--you aren't talking about anything. your construction of obama these days is particularly absurd. cheney did an interview yesterday in which is praised obama's foreign policy as a vindication of the bush administration's....he's talking about going after "job-killing regulation"----you may be getting triangulated again.

Triangulated? Before arriving at that conclusion did you decide that Cheney has credibility worthy of you using him as a source to prove I might be wrong about Obama? Did not think you were a fan of his, go figure.

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as for your absurd narrative about palin being resurrected through some imaginary "liberal resentment"---i don't know where you're getting your infotainment from. it's been pretty clear what sarah palin (tm) has been after. she's a political brand. whether she is able to run coherently for president or merely profits unreasonably from playing chumps like you is likely a six of one half dozen of the other matter to sarah palin inc.

Nice tone - I am a "chump" because I support Palin.

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your relation to the brand "sarah palin" is beyond bizarre. i don't imagine you're speaking for anyone but yourself---

As I have stated in the past, I speak for myself.

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and i think you don't even believe this stuff--

Now, words don't matter. What I write here is not important, all we need is you to tell everyone what I believe. With a skill like that, why do we even need a forum. You can save us all time and effort - just tell everyone what they believe. I thought my ego was big.

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that you're just trying it out like wearing a gown to a company social event. have fun with that.

I live with passion, emotion and conviction. I love life and I always have fun doing what I do. Thanks for you concern.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 02:36 PM

Is 'tone' the new buzzword for the month? I only ask ace because it seems to be your newest one I've heard most often in the past couple of weeks.

Edit: Found this while skimming through Google News

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It was a case of responding to the response to her response to responses to the tragic shootings in Tucson.

Appearing on talk television, Sarah Palin's "Two-F" media strategy – Facebook and Fox News – was on display, combining an echo chamber with a hall of mirrors that equally delights supporters and dismays political opponents, while placing her out of reach of anything approaching critical or mainstream media outlets.

The choice of Sean Hannity's primetime Fox News show to defend her comments made in a video posted on her Facebook page – that she was the victim of a "blood libel" over responsibility for the Arizona shootings – was no accident: Hannity, a red-meat Republican and Tea Party favourite, served up softball questions for Palin to dispatch with ease.

Criticism from other sections of the Republican party will not be as easy for Palin to dismiss, even if she refuses to acknowledge it.

Newt Gingrich, another likely contender for the 2012 presidential nomination, had barbed advice for Palin on ABC's Good Morning America breakfast show. "I think that she's got to slow down and be more careful and think through what she's saying and how's she's saying it," he said.

Former Bush speechwriter David Frum went further. "She should stop talking now, really," he said.

But Palin didn't get where she is today by being silent, telling Hannity: "I'm not going to sit down. I'm not going to shut up."

The American people, though, may be losing patience with Palin. A Gallup poll commissioned by USA Today after the Tucson controversy found that Palin's rating is at its lowest level since she burst onto the national political scene in September 2008. She is seen in a favourable light by 38% of US voters, while 53% have an unfavourable view.

Another poll, for the Washington Post and ABC, found that 30% of voters approved of Palin's remarks after the Tucson shootings, while 46% disapproved. President Barack Obama, in contrast, had a 78% approval rating for his handling of events.

With the support of Republican powerbrokers such as Hannity and fellow Fox News headliner Glenn Beck, who emailed his support to Palin soon after the shootings, she may yet weather the storm of criticism, most of it coming from Democrats and those unlikely to support her in any circumstances.

What the affair highlights is Palin's continuing media power. She remains the only star of a Republican party which, despite recent election successes, is still struggling to find a heavyweight contender to take on Obama in 2012. For all Palin's faults she remains a significant contender – as even Dick Cheney acknowledged this week in a rare interview.

By avoiding hostile forums, Palin keeps both supporters and critics in suspense, so that every gnomic message on Twitter or Facebook gets repeated and dissected. That approach can backfire, as the "blood libel" incident clearly shows. But it means she easily commands more media attention than any other US politician barring Obama.

Ross Douthat, a conservative columnist for the New York Times, vented his frustration at the war between Palinoiacs and Palinistas, comparing the tussle between Palin and the US media over the Tucson shootings to an unhappy marriage.

"The whole business felt less like an episode in American political history than a scene from a particularly toxic marriage," Douthat wrote. "The press and Palin have been at war with each other almost from the first, but their mutual antipathy looks increasingly like co-dependency: They can't get along, but they can't live without each other either."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...k-fox-strategy

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 02:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

ace, you don't seem to accept the plain fact that Palin has positioned herself as an opposing force to liberalism and progressive politics in the U.S. via a reactionary politics.

I accept it...

What I don't accept is...never mind...I doubt I can ever explain it in a way that you understand because you can not accept certain truths about the current political climate. For example - liberal say there was no connection to right-wing "tone" and the AZ murders - but there is a connection to right-wing "tone" and the violence that lead to the AZ murders and it has to change???????

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The Republicans have done the same. It fuels Beck's hue and cry.

I don't even like Beck. The first few times I saw his show I thought he was a clown. If you can find it, that was my first comment on him. And the only reason I tune him in periodically is because he is a content topic of conversation. Beck has been smart enough to evolve and has toned down his, what I call "clown" act. AS liberals are locked into what was, he is solidifying his popularity with his audience and people who now tune into him for the first time will find he is not the caricature he is made out to be by liberals. Again, liberal miscalculate and over shoot their target.

yournamehere · 01-18-2011, 02:48 PM

Sarah Palin is first and foremost a money-grubbing attention whore. Plain and simple. She's the poster child for the mindless devotion Americans seem to have for reality television.
Everything she says and does is calculated to get her words and face plastered all over the national media - to sell books and garner speaking engagements. For her to step up and admit that perhaps it's not healthy to continuosly speak in violence-ridden metaphors would only alienate her from her shrinking base.

I don't believe for a second she'll run for President, except to keep her name in the spotlight. After all, we already know what she thinks of public service jobs.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Willravel

Ace, just stop. You know Sarah Palin is an unintelligent woman. It's impossible for you not to know it. All of the dissonance in the world can't hide her consistently unintelligent statements. She's just said another stupid thing in a long line of stupid things. She's stupid. It's only a reflection on you because you're one of her inexplicable supporters. If you could peel yourself away from the dissonance for a second, you'd come to the conclusion that because she's so unintelligent, she isn't deserving of your admiration on issues which require intellect.

Wash, rinse, repeat. She is just stupid, right. She just says stupid things. She is just stupid. I got it.

And, you think I have a problem?

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I invite you to suspend dissonance for a moment. Think about all the things she's said in the past, how Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, death panels, her inability to name a single newspaper or magazine, her wanting to stand with our North Korean allies, admitting that she and her family used to cross the border into Canada for better healthcare while bemoaning 'Obamacare', blaming the Gulf Oil spill on environmentalists, notes written on her hand during a convention speech, calling out Rahm Emanuel for using 'retarded', but not Limbaugh... the list is nearly endless in her two and a half years on the public stage. She's a stupid woman, Ace. Blood libel is just another in a long, long line of very stupid statements.

I could respond to every one of those issues, including honestly stating when I disagree with what she said or admit it being an error - as I have done - and it would not matter. Wash, Rinse, Repeat - I got it.

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Even if your reading of Dershowitz is correct, and it's not,...

He has done televised live interviews as well as having his statements appear in digital and print media, do your homework.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Daniel_

Hi Ace,

I never said SHE was putting herself into the role as potential president, but mentioned that I am shocked that she is considered a viable candidate.

And I basically agree. Now the tide has turned for me. I am 100% behind her run for President.

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I meant that it is stunning to me that ANYONE believes she is the sort of person who might do it well.

One of the characteristics I like in a leader is, conviction. Palin has conviction to a level I have never seen in a politician - and I love it - it is so refreshing.

The lack of conviction is what I dislike most about Obama. The lack of conviction is why I did not support McCain. It is the reason I will never support Romney. It is the reason why I have respect for a guy like Kucinich while I disagree with him on everything. I am the guy who says, go to universal single payer healthcare rather than an unworkable compromise like Obama-care that is loaded with problems that can bankrupt the country and completely ruin our system. I am the guy who says win the war in Afghanistan or bring our troops home now. Etc. Etc. Etc.

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by mixedmedia

If Sarah Palin is so righteous and brilliant and statesmanlike, why is it that she is so lacking in a characteristic as simple as tact?

Nobody is perfect.

Willravel · 01-18-2011, 03:05 PM

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Originally Posted by aceventura3

Wash, rinse, repeat. She is just stupid, right. She just says stupid things. She is just stupid. I got it.

You clearly don't.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Sorry, Ace, you have misjudged her capabilities to be President. There is something intangible which is lacking in her.

Her weaknesses are not intangible. If it were possible to have an honest discussion here on her weaknesses that would be a fair discussion. I am not one who believe people come out of the womb, prepared to be a leader or President. I first look for certain characteristics in people I give my full commitment and support to - one characteristic Palin has is, and her record reflects it, is that she is a winner - she rises to the level to get the job done. She is an over-achiever, scrappy, I love that in leaders. I have a strong bias against pompous overly intellectual empty suits. I live in a real world, not a theoretical text book world.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 03:11 PM

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I am the guy who says win the war in Afghanistan or bring our troops home now.

Kind of hard to win something that is that much of a clusterfuck now isn' it? Saying 'win the war' is easy, actually winning it, not so much, maybe had the war been run properly from the beginning, and a certain former president hadn't had his GPS break down and point him in another direction, things would be better off, or maybe if the country had a president of the entire country, rather than the president of Kabul, say 'win the war or bring the tropps home' all you like ace, leave now and you'll be left with the same thing as before, then what?

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One of the characteristics I like in a leader is, conviction. Palin has conviction to a level I have never seen in a politician - and I love it - it is so refreshing.

Conviction can only get one so far in the political arena, you simply choose to look past Palin's many, many, many faults, and grasp on to her conviction. Obama has conviction, you just don't agree with him, so it's quite obvious that you wouldn't like the man regardless what he did.

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I live in a real world, not a theoretical text book world.

I find this hilarious, fuck the intellectuals and their fancy book learnin.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:13 PM

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Originally Posted by yournamehere

Sarah Palin is first and foremost a money-grubbing attention whore. Plain and simple.

Nice tone. She is ignorant, stupid, uncouth and a whore. Wash, rinse, repeat. Got it.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 03:15 PM

Is 'tone' a FoxNews thing? I'm honestly curious as you've been on a 'tone' kick the past couple of weeks, seems it's like the McDonalds treat of the week from back in the day.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Willravel

You clearly don't.

I tell you repeatedly, that I simply disagree with you when I do and generally leave it at that - why do you insist on trying to tell me what I don't understand?

Daniel_ · 01-18-2011, 03:15 PM

Commitment is all?

The worst most evil and corrupt leaders in the world were committed.

I don't think that a dogged commitment to an idea is a good thing, in and of itself - especially if it's a bad idea!

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:23 PM

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Originally Posted by silent_jay

Kind of hard to win something that is that much of a clusterfuck now isn' it?

I have said bring the troops home, do a search.

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Conviction can only get one so far in the political arena, you simply choose to look past Palin's many, many, many faults, and grasp on to her conviction.

Now this is getting interesting. How can I not be insulting...have you read what I wrote???? She has faults, she has weaknesses, she is not perfect. Gee. What do you want????

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Obama has conviction, you just don't agree with him, so it's quite obvious that you wouldn't like the man regardless what he did.

I guess it is all relative...

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I find this hilarious, fuck the intellectuals and their fancy book learnin.

If you have no sense of perspective, you don't understand. But, if you know the bio of Bill Gates of Microsoft, you know that there is practical "learnin" and there is theoretical b.s. - it is the practical "learnin" that changes the world. I guess it may take a level of wisdom to understand the difference that is beyond what one may read in a book. But, I know, I know - I got the problem. Right. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Baraka_Guru · 01-18-2011, 03:23 PM

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Originally Posted by aceventura3

I don't even like Beck. The first few times I saw his show I thought he was a clown. If you can find it, that was my first comment on him. And the only reason I tune him in periodically is because he is a content topic of conversation. Beck has been smart enough to evolve and has toned down his, what I call "clown" act. AS liberals are locked into what was, he is solidifying his popularity with his audience and people who now tune into him for the first time will find he is not the caricature he is made out to be by liberals. Again, liberal miscalculate and over shoot their target.

Well, I assume that you must take your position on Beck with some bitterness considering that he's somewhat of a political ally of Palin's. They tend to think the same way it seems, even though they may not act the same. You know, how they tend to do things like compare their plight to that of Martin Luther King. I'd guess that's no accident.

And for the record, despite how toned down he may have become, I do think he's somewhat of the caricature you've hinted at. I've seen clips of his show recently. And not much has changed from what I've seen them a year or two ago. It's difficult to take him seriously. I try to laugh at him, except I'm stopped by some automatic moral apprehension. I think it's because people do take him seriously. If he were on the Comedy Central, I think I'd laugh.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Well, I assume that you must take your position on Beck with some bitterness considering that he's somewhat of a political ally of Palin's.

Why would I be bitter? Beck's initial "act" was over the top.

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They tend to think the same way it seems, even though they may not act the same. You know, how they tend to do things like compare their plight to that of Martin Luther King. I'd guess that's no accident.

Palin has not done what you suggest. MLK nor Palin were in a plight, there were in a fight. Again, you have this victim narrative going real strong in your mind, I would never say MLK was a victim nor would I say that regarding Palin. MLK sought the opportunity to change America. Palin is not going to run from an opportunity to do so. I don't follow Beck enough to comment.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 03:33 PM

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Originally Posted by aceventura3

I have said bring the troops home, do a search.

It's easy to say ace, but you have to remember, you guys started that mess, what happens after you 'leave', the exact same thing as before, so, no need for me to do a search.

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Now this is getting interesting. How can I not be insulting...have you read what I wrote???? She has faults, she has weaknesses, she is not perfect. Gee. What do you want????

How can you not be insulting? By acting like a big boy and having big boy conversations, you're supposedly 50, you should know how to have grown up conversations by now, you want to insult me, go right ahead, you'll only make yourself look foolish and immature, so, no skin off my nuts.

I was merely saying 'conviction' can only get one so far in politics, and you chose to grasp on to that and hold on tight, have you read what I wrote????

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If you have no sense of perspective, you don't understand. But, if you know the bio of Bill Gates of Microsoft, you know that there is practical "learnin" and there is theoretical b.s. - it is the practical "learnin" that changes the world. I guess it may take a level of wisdom to understand the difference that is beyond what one may read in a book. But, I know, I know - I got the problem. Right. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Of course ace, it's always about everyone else not understanding, Wash, Rinse, Repeat. You need to take your own advice and change the record, I guess your level of wisdom is so far ahead of everyone elses that we all just need to catch up to your practical learnin Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Daniel_

Commitment is all?

No.

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The worst most evil and corrupt leaders in the world were committed.

Evil prevails when good people compromise their convictions.

mixedmedia · 01-18-2011, 03:40 PM

It's funny. all of the folks in politics I admire most have political conviction, too. very strong political convictions. and intelligence. vision. oh, here's a good one, accomplishments. yet none of them exhibit it in a way that is popularly described as refreshing...like, like, like a cold, refreshing Mountain Dew after an afternoon in the Alaskan frontier shootin' grizzlies.

ack. we are doomed.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:46 PM

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Originally Posted by silent_jay

How can you not be insulting? By acting like a big boy and having big boy conversations, you're supposedly 50, you should know how to have grown up conversations by now, you want to insult me, go right ahead, you'll only make yourself look foolish and immature, so, no skin off my nuts. I was merely saying 'conviction' can only get one so far in politics, have you read what I wrote????

If you read what I wrote you would know I agree.

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Of course ace, it's always about everyone else not understanding, Wash, Rinse, Repeat. You need to take your own advice and change the record, I guess your level of wisdom is so far ahead of everyone elses that we all just need to catch up to your practical learnin Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

I shared an honest bias that I have and I explained it. the purpose was to share some insight with those who actually read stuff here on why I am such an ardent Palin supporter and why I don't like Obama. I admit the importance of passion and emotion and having leadership who can stir passion and emotion. I admit the symbolism of not backing down and how that moves me. I illustrate why liberals employing their current strategy may back-fire. I admit Palin is less than perfect and I am. I say I have concerns, that she will need a good team. I do all this sincerely and honestly, but i am told I don't mean what I write, that I don't understand "it" and that I have a problem. I got it, trust me. But, just like Palin did, I give you the royal...

...

YaWhateva · 01-18-2011, 03:46 PM

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Originally Posted by aceventura3

If you have no sense of perspective, you don't understand. But, if you know the bio of Bill Gates of Microsoft, you know that there is practical "learnin" and there is theoretical b.s. - it is the practical "learnin" that changes the world. I guess it may take a level of wisdom to understand the difference that is beyond what one may read in a book. But, I know, I know - I got the problem. Right. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Theoretical b.s....wow. I still don't see how people can engage with this person when he says things like this. I understand the desire to try and prove you are right but someone is so far gone that they believe things like this, it's not even worth engaging with them.

Baraka_Guru · 01-18-2011, 03:50 PM

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Originally Posted by aceventura3

Why would I be bitter? Beck's initial "act" was over the top.

I was referring to your dislike for Beck and his ties to Palin.

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Palin has not done what you suggest.

She evoked the words of MLK in her recent interview with Hannity.

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MLK nor Palin were in a plight, there were in a fight. Again, you have this victim narrative going real strong in your mind, I would never say MLK was a victim nor would I say that regarding Palin. MLK sought the opportunity to change America. Palin is not going to run from an opportunity to do so. I don't follow Beck enough to comment.

If you're not in a plight, then why fight unless you are an aggressor or opportunist? I don't consider MLK a victim. I wouldn't consider Palin so much a victim if she weren't so insincere in her responses to her critics. Rather than simply come out and fight it head on, she instead comes out with this "blood libel" move.

I'm beginning to think she doesn't have the tact or the wherewithal to address criticism. In a way, she confirms its legitimacy in her failure to do so.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

It's funny. all of the folks in politics I admire most have political conviction, too.

Names?

I respect Kuchinich.
I would have voted for Hilary Clinton over McCain.
I loved the fact that "Voter intent" Murkowski, waged a write-in campaign and won - it changed my whole view point on her.
And I think Mother Teresa actual cared about the people she helped.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

If you read what I wrote you would know I agree.

I read what you wrote, I just find it amusing an apparently 50 year old man can't have a conversation without wanting to be insulting.

Quote:

I shared an honest bias that I have and I explained it. the purpose was to share some insight with those who actually read stuff here on why I am such an ardent Palin supporter and why I don't like Obama. I admit the importance of passion and emotion and having leadership who can stir passion and emotion. I admit the symbolism of not backing down and how that moves me. I illustrate why liberals employing their current strategy may back-fire. I admit Palin is less than perfect and I am. I say I have concerns, that she will need a good team. I do all this sincerely and honestly, but i am told I don't mean what I write, that I don't understand "it" and that I have a problem. I got it, trust me. But, just like Palin did, I give you the royal...

...

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

aceventura3 · 01-18-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YaWhateva

Theoretical b.s....wow.

Why not say you don't think there is a difference? Why not simply do that, I won't make fun of you - I would just share what I think are the differences. But, when you mock me while saying you don't think there is a difference you set the stage for what follows and I am often (more often than I like) immature.

---------- Post added at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:56 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

I read what you wrote, I just find it amusing an apparently 50 year old man can't have a conversation without wanting to be insulting.

If I live to be 100, I won't change. All I will ever be able to do is try to control my nature. The first step is understanding it, and I do. And, I openly tell you and others what to expect, and what I find surprising is how you folks act surprised - like "apparently 50 year old man..."

I will put this into words here, because it is as good for me as it is for anyone who wants to understand different types of human behavior - and I am not saying I am proud - it is what it is.

If you are kicking me in the gut, while saying lets change the tone - my response is not to the request of changing the tone.

If we are kicking each other and you say lets change the tone, but you got in the last kick - my response is not to the request of changing the tone.

If we are kick each other and I got in the last kick and you say lets change the tone, i will stop kicking you but I won't believe you will stop kicking and will be very defensive for a long time.

But on the bright side if you never start kicking me, I will never start kicking you.

I know it is childish, immature, neanderthalish, etc, etc, etc., but armed with the information the real question is what do you do with it? I think Palin has a similar personality to mine, hence I say the constant liberal attacks are the absolute wrong thing to do!

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 04:18 PM

And we're left with another aceism, I know ace, it's up to everyone else, and what they choose to do with it. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Again with 'changing the tone', I'm convinced this is a FoxNews thing, I don't get it here in Canada so I may be incorrect, but I find it amusing you've used it about 6 times or more on this page of the thread alone.

Have a good one, I've got a hockey game to watch.

Tully Mars · 01-18-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

And we're left with another aceism, I know ace, it's up to everyone else, and what they choose to do with it. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Again with 'changing the tone', I'm convinced this is a FoxNews thing, I don't get it here in Canada so I may be incorrect, but I find it amusing you've used it about 6 times or more on this page of the thread alone.

Have a good one, I've got a hockey game to watch.

You had me right up until the hockey game.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 05:18 PM

Haha, come on Tully, it's the Habs/Sabres on TSN, you know you're sitting on the edge of your seat to find out who wins.

Tully Mars · 01-18-2011, 05:21 PM

Yea, ya got me... I was lying I really like hockey. Oh and Palin would make a great POTUS.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 05:27 PM

Well, Palin as POTUS would be interesting for sure, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert would certainly have enough ammo to keep their shows going strong, and it would be interesting to see her interact with other leaders, of course it's probably more amusing from the outside than it is from the inside.

Tully Mars · 01-18-2011, 05:38 PM

They're busy enough and have enough money. Now is not the time to elect another Bush Jr. type to the oval office. In fact I think electing Palin might be the only thing that would make me miss Bush Jr.

Umm, are the Montreal Canadians nicknamed the Habs? Because I have the Sabres playing them on channel 400 right now.

silent_jay · 01-18-2011, 07:13 PM

Agreed, not the time to do that indeed.

Yep, the Canadiens are the Habs, that would be the game I'm watching on TSN.

mixedmedia · 01-18-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Names?

I respect Kuchinich.
I would have voted for Hilary Clinton over McCain.
I loved the fact that "Voter intent" Murkowski, waged a write-in campaign and won - it changed my whole view point on her.
And I think Mother Teresa actual cared about the people she helped.

Sure, I'll give you some names. Just not tonight. I'm not in the mood. Tomorrow.

yournamehere · 01-18-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Nice tone. She is ignorant, stupid, uncouth and a whore. Wash, rinse, repeat. Got it.

Wow, you managed to quote me and misquote me within a few sentences.
So much for living in the real world.

I said she's an attention-whore. Not exactly the same meaning as "whore."
I never called her stupid or uncouth, either. I'll give you ignorant, though.

Like the media, she's learned that the more fear you instill in people, the less likely they are to think for themselves, seek the truth, or care about real issues. I mean, when you can convince people that $3/hr dishwashers are more dangerous to America than hedge fund managers and CEOs who steal Billions, I'd say there's some stupidity involved, but not on Palin's part. Unless she actually believes what she's shoveling. And I don't think she does.

01-18-2011, 11:54 AM	#42 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	ace--you aren't talking about anything. your construction of obama these days is particularly absurd. cheney did an interview yesterday in which is praised obama's foreign policy as a vindication of the bush administration's....he's talking about going after "job-killing regulation"----you may be getting triangulated again. as for your absurd narrative about palin being resurrected through some imaginary "liberal resentment"---i don't know where you're getting your infotainment from. it's been pretty clear what sarah palin (tm) has been after. she's a political brand. whether she is able to run coherently for president or merely profits unreasonably from playing chumps like you is likely a six of one half dozen of the other matter to sarah palin inc. your relation to the brand "sarah palin" is beyond bizarre. i don't imagine you're speaking for anyone but yourself---and i think you don't even believe this stuff--that you're just trying it out like wearing a gown to a company social event. have fun with that. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-18-2011, 01:54 PM	#46 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	If Sarah Palin is so righteous and brilliant and statesmanlike, why is it that she is so lacking in a characteristic as simple as tact? I've been sort of out of the loop lately. Life overwhelming attention to current events kind of thing. But I really don't need to see anything more than the 'crosshairs map' and the use of 'blood libel' to understand that she really is an unthinking, uncouth kind of person. Insults from the press and 'liberuls' aside. In this context, it makes the fact that I vehemently disagree with her politics secondary. She's a boor. A female boor. And I wouldn't support her regardless of what party she belonged to. They used to say: you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. A sentiment a long time now forgotten. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

01-18-2011, 02:21 PM	#47 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	This entire "blood libel" argument is too silly to waste time on, but I will comment on Palin. Sorry, Ace, you have misjudged her capabilities to be President. There is something intangible which is lacking in her. There have been some adjectives thrown around in here which feel overly harsh, but a more palatable synonym would suit perfectly. For example, I don't think she's a boor, but I do think she lacks a necessary level of sophistication to handle that unexpected situation appropriately. 99% of the time, she'd handle herself with grace and dignity. It's that 1% which matters, though. I don't think she is stupid. However, I do believe she lacks the level of intellect that is required to command respect of other intellects - which is TERRIBLY important in diplomacy. It isn't really about whether she could carry enough votes or not, it is whether she would be able to handle the job. She wouldn't. I can think of no circumstance where Palin would get my vote for President, and I can't wait for Obama to leave. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

01-18-2011, 02:48 PM	#51 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	Sarah Palin is first and foremost a money-grubbing attention whore. Plain and simple. She's the poster child for the mindless devotion Americans seem to have for reality television. Everything she says and does is calculated to get her words and face plastered all over the national media - to sell books and garner speaking engagements. For her to step up and admit that perhaps it's not healthy to continuosly speak in violence-ridden metaphors would only alienate her from her shrinking base. I don't believe for a second she'll run for President, except to keep her name in the spotlight. After all, we already know what she thinks of public service jobs. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

01-18-2011, 03:15 PM	#59 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	Commitment is all? The worst most evil and corrupt leaders in the world were committed. I don't think that a dogged commitment to an idea is a good thing, in and of itself - especially if it's a bad idea! __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

01-18-2011, 12:25 PM	#44 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Ace, just stop. You know Sarah Palin is an unintelligent woman. It's impossible for you not to know it. All of the dissonance in the world can't hide her consistently unintelligent statements. She's just said another stupid thing in a long line of stupid things. She's stupid. It's only a reflection on you because you're one of her inexplicable supporters. If you could peel yourself away from the dissonance for a second, you'd come to the conclusion that because she's so unintelligent, she isn't deserving of your admiration on issues which require intellect. I invite you to suspend dissonance for a moment. Think about all the things she's said in the past, how Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, death panels, her inability to name a single newspaper or magazine, her wanting to stand with our North Korean allies, admitting that she and her family used to cross the border into Canada for better healthcare while bemoaning 'Obamacare', blaming the Gulf Oil spill on environmentalists, notes written on her hand during a convention speech, calling out Rahm Emanuel for using 'retarded', but not Limbaugh... the list is nearly endless in her two and a half years on the public stage. She's a stupid woman, Ace. Blood libel is just another in a long, long line of very stupid statements. Even if your reading of Dershowitz is correct, and it's not, that doesn't make Sarah Palin intelligent and it doesn't make her usage correct. If Dershowitz is saying that Palin used the term correctly, then he's wrong. Blood libel doesn't mean "you aren't allowed to criticize me", which is exactly how Sarah Palin used it. It never has and likely never will.

01-18-2011, 03:15 PM	#57 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Is 'tone' a FoxNews thing? I'm honestly curious as you've been on a 'tone' kick the past couple of weeks, seems it's like the McDonalds treat of the week from back in the day.

01-18-2011, 03:40 PM	#65 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	It's funny. all of the folks in politics I admire most have political conviction, too. very strong political convictions. and intelligence. vision. oh, here's a good one, accomplishments. yet none of them exhibit it in a way that is popularly described as refreshing...like, like, like a cold, refreshing Mountain Dew after an afternoon in the Alaskan frontier shootin' grizzlies. ack. we are doomed. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

01-18-2011, 04:18 PM	#72 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	And we're left with another aceism, I know ace, it's up to everyone else, and what they choose to do with it. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Again with 'changing the tone', I'm convinced this is a FoxNews thing, I don't get it here in Canada so I may be incorrect, but I find it amusing you've used it about 6 times or more on this page of the thread alone. Have a good one, I've got a hockey game to watch. Last edited by silent_jay; 01-18-2011 at 04:23 PM.. Reason: removed stuff because I can't be bothered to engage someone who blames everything on others

01-18-2011, 05:18 PM	#74 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Haha, come on Tully, it's the Habs/Sabres on TSN, you know you're sitting on the edge of your seat to find out who wins.

01-18-2011, 05:21 PM	#75 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Yea, ya got me... I was lying I really like hockey. Oh and Palin would make a great POTUS. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

01-18-2011, 05:27 PM	#76 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Well, Palin as POTUS would be interesting for sure, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert would certainly have enough ammo to keep their shows going strong, and it would be interesting to see her interact with other leaders, of course it's probably more amusing from the outside than it is from the inside.

01-18-2011, 05:38 PM	#77 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	They're busy enough and have enough money. Now is not the time to elect another Bush Jr. type to the oval office. In fact I think electing Palin might be the only thing that would make me miss Bush Jr. Umm, are the Montreal Canadians nicknamed the Habs? Because I have the Sabres playing them on channel 400 right now. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club Last edited by Tully Mars; 01-18-2011 at 05:42 PM.. Reason: fucking spell checker!!!!

01-18-2011, 07:13 PM	#78 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Agreed, not the time to do that indeed. Yep, the Canadiens are the Habs, that would be the game I'm watching on TSN.