Confirmed: At least 1 in 5 Americans is an absolute idiot. - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Derwood · 08-24-2010, 11:44 AM

why oh why did I click that link?

Baraka_Guru · 08-24-2010, 11:50 AM

About the video (I didn't watch it): The idea of the child soldier is one of the most reprehensible in my mind. And the recruiting of impressionable minds in America will be doused by such cultural centers as this one in Lower Manhattan. That's the fucking irony of this whole thing (which now extends well beyond Lower Manhattan). The people are resisting the very thing that will combat what they're more concerned about: the same very forces behind 9/11. I just wish they'd open their eyes.

Anyway, I suppose I should reserve these thoughts for the thread on this topic.

uncle phil · 08-24-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Source

Yes we can, Michael.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuglyStick

LOL

And, simultaneously,

We are surrounded by idiots.

1 -statistics.gif

kutulu · 08-24-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

And these anti-Mosque demonstrators will have nobody to blame but themselves and their more violent hangers-on for whatever that formerly moderate kid goes and does.

Yes and no. The anti-Mosque demonstrators may be a contributing factor but the kid made his own choice and it was the wrong one. Ultimate blame still lies with the person committing an act.

As for that video, I didn't watch it but reading about things like that makes me die a little inside. When I was 12 I was playing with GI Joes and being a kid. I wonder if that was the first time he killed someone, how many people has he killed or witnessed being killed?

ring · 08-24-2010, 02:53 PM

How many americans are indoctrinating their child soldiers?

What type of informed choice, will guide their hand?

uncle phil · 08-24-2010, 03:53 PM

i will refrain from posting something about ms palin...

Pearl Trade · 08-24-2010, 04:13 PM

I look past people who use their children as a vehicle to further their own cause, whatever that may be. They hide behind little kids and give them smart ass signs to show how "innocent" their struggle is.

I think it's just the political extremists using their kids like that. Well, that's obvious, we all know that. So I don't think many Americans are "indoctrinating their child soldiers." I don't like the term "child soldier" being used to describe unknowing kids holding up signs. They aren't fighting for anything, they just sit around with their parents holding up a piece of cardboard.

I think whatever happened in the video (I didn't watch it) is an isolated incident, not a sign of greater happenings or negative trends.

Plan9 · 08-24-2010, 04:23 PM

Ring: I figure there is a slight difference between the ignorant spawn of a middle class moron simply holding a sign (that they can't read or, if they can, understand) at a protest and a 14 year old boy in Africa or the Middle East AK47ing his neighbors because of their ethnicity or religion. Just a smidgen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil

i will refrain from posting something about ms palin...

Maybe you should.

I mean, the topic debated in this thread can't get any more retarded, can it? That and she's real popular with those Birther types, dontchaknow?

Walt · 08-24-2010, 05:04 PM

Anyone catch The Post's follow-up? I am shocked, SHOCKED, to learn that retarded beliefs aren't limited only to vegans and Republicans.

"Much attention has been paid in recent days to a poll by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life showing that 18 percent of Americans incorrectly believe that President Obama is a Muslim. But the results of another Pew poll on religion released last December were far more shocking. It turns out that 36 percent of Democrats claim to have communed with the dead, and that 19 percent believe in casting a curse on someone using the "evil eye." Think about that: According Pew, more Democrats believe in the "evil eye" than Americans believe Obama is a Muslim."

washingtonpost.com

roachboy · 08-24-2010, 05:10 PM

um...you can actually read the poll results above. it says alot of things. it's actually kind of an interesting project that goes well beyond the nitwit usage being made of it in this thread and elsewhere. but hey, why bother to actually read it when you can bite summaries by other people who have and repeat them?

seriously.

http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/645.pdf

Plan9 · 08-24-2010, 05:12 PM

This thread is incomplete with a picture of said evil eye. Is it the Dark Tower evil eye perchance or is more like the eye described in The Lord of the Rings?

boink · 08-24-2010, 05:26 PM

Mathew

Quote:

You've got sensitive liberals here bent about a bumper sticker they saw asking "where is the birth certificate". Liberals love bumper stickers, I'm sure you saw bush hanging by a noose on 10 times as many cars. The selective offensiveness is insane. Questioning a birth certificate makes you want to give up on America? Really?

heh, seems to me you generalise liberals pretty freely yourself. if you think I'm gonna apologise for having a college education, sorry buddy, you seem to have quite a chip on yer shoulder about educated folk...maybe you should try getting one ?
I wasn't 'bent' on the sticker, I found it somewhat amusing and not having much to contribute here I thought I'd mention it, it seemed related.
yeah I've seen some Bush/Cheney bumper stickers. I don't have a problem depicting Bush/Cheney hanging from a tree seems to me they kicked off an illegal war that so far as brought death to over 1,000,000 people ? or don't you give 2 shits about that ?

Pan

Quote:

I had the perfect last post damn you.... I was joining those who gave up and was leaving... and you make me comeback and post one last time with a bravo, kudos and excellently said.

This is the perfect post to retire on, giving praise to someone who truly gets it.

c'mon Pan it's a discussion, not a pissing contest of who can 'out snark' who.
say something worth saying or troll somewhere else.

Baraka_Guru · 08-24-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt

Anyone catch The Post's follow-up? I am shocked, SHOCKED, to learn that retarded beliefs aren't limited only to vegans and Republicans.

"Much attention has been paid in recent days to a poll by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life showing that 18 percent of Americans incorrectly believe that President Obama is a Muslim. But the results of another Pew poll on religion released last December were far more shocking. It turns out that 36 percent of Democrats claim to have communed with the dead, and that 19 percent believe in casting a curse on someone using the "evil eye." Think about that: According Pew, more Democrats believe in the "evil eye" than Americans believe Obama is a Muslim."

This is of little consequence with regard to this topic. And it should be noted that communing with the dead isn't a far reach from communing with a deity. The U.S. is a relatively religious nation, so it's not a surprise that many believe in an afterlife and spirits. Furthermore, beliefs surrounding the "evil eye" appear even in the Old Testament. Republicans are not spared from these either, where 21% and 12% share the same beliefs, respectively.

Regardless, Islam is a real thing, whereas spirits and evil eyes aren't so much. Even if you account for degrees of error, it appears that many Americans believe that the president is something he's not---and this is something they can find out fairly easily using the Internet or a library. Of course, those who think he's a Muslim may think he's hiding it, which is another thing all together. This brings up the concept of the paranoid Christian.

Pearl Trade · 08-24-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

This brings up the concept of the paranoid Christian.

Or, it brings up the concept of the paranoid (insert religion here). I don't know why you keep singling out Christianity. There's no Christian conspiracy against the president or anyone else for that matter.

Baraka_Guru · 08-24-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl Trade

Or, it brings up the concept of the paranoid (insert religion here). I don't know why you keep singling out Christianity. There's no Christian conspiracy against the president or anyone else for that matter.

Well, if you swing a dead cat in America, most of whom you'll hit will be Christian. Also, the vocal opposition to Islam I've heard recently has been coming from Christian groups and figures, so it's been on my mind.

But I'm sure there are also Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, and agnostics, etc., who are paranoid about Obama being in office and hiding his Islamic faith. I stand corrected.

Willravel · 08-24-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

But I'm sure there are also Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, and agnostics, etc., who are paranoid about Obama being in office and hiding his Islamic faith. I stand corrected.

An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but for the record I'm not 'sure' there are also Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists and agnostics paranoid about President Obama being Muslim. There could be, of course, but I'm certainly not aware of any.

Baraka_Guru · 08-24-2010, 07:46 PM

Well, I suppose I should have said "there could very well be."

Xerxys · 08-24-2010, 08:50 PM

Speaking of polls ...

Quote:

New Poll Finds 86 Percent Of Americans Don't Want To Have A Country Anymore

WASHINGTON, DC—A Gallup/Harris Interactive poll released Monday indicates that nearly nine out of 10 Americans are "tired of having a country."

Chicago commuters, 87 percent of whom just don't care anymore.

Among the 86 percent of poll respondents who were in favor of discontinuing the nation, the most frequently cited reasons were a lack of significant results from the current democratic process (36 percent), dissatisfaction with customer service (28 percent), and exhaustion (22 percent).

"I don't want to get bogged down in the country anymore," Wilmington, DE accountant Karie Ashworth said. "I'm not up in arms or anything, I'm just saying it'd be a lot easier for everyone if we just gave it up."

Of those who were against maintaining an American nation, 77 percent said they believe that having a country is "counter to the best interests of Americans." Twelve percent said "the time and effort citizens spend on the country could be better spent elsewhere," and 8 percent said they just didn't care.

Roughly 3 percent said we ceased to have a country years ago, and explained that they had been stockpiling weapons to protect their independent compounds.

According to study organizer David Griffith, poll respondents were surprisingly uniform in their opinion that the nation is too much of a hassle.

"I already belong to a health club, a church, and the Kiwanis Club," Tammy Golden of Los Angeles wrote. "I'm a member of the Von's Grocery Super Savers, which gets me a discount on certain groceries. These are all well-managed organizations with real benefits. None of them send me a confusing bill once a year and make me work it out myself, then throw me in jail if I get it wrong."

Olympia, WA student Helen Berg expressed frustration with the country's voting process.

"I was gonna vote, but it rained," Berg wrote. "It wasn't for the president anyway, so what difference does it make? The president is the only one that matters, and you don't even get to vote for him."

Most citizens said they did not wish to abandon such American traditions as parades, fireworks, and national holidays.

"I'm for saluting flags and pledging allegiance to them, but nothing beyond that," Tampa, FL mechanic and former Marine Doug Pauls said. "I like singing the anthem before the game, but I can't keep up with the news every day. I have three kids."

Pauls added: "I love America, but what's that got to do with having a country?"

Some critics, including the leadership of both parties, have attacked the methodology of the poll, saying that questions like "Do you want a country anymore?" are poorly worded. Casey Mark, a fellow at the Brookings Institute, characterized the question as leading.

Said Mark: "What you must consider is that respondents often don't have the time or energy to devote to answering five questions about their country, which they consider themselves to be remotely involved with, at best."

Griffith pointed to Cheyenne, WY banker Jeff Wheldon's response.

"I think we've come far enough as a nation that we don't need to have one anymore," Wheldon wrote. "It's not like we're Somalia, where the warlords run everything, or Russia, where it's all organized crime. We've had over 200 years of being Americans. I don't think we still need the United States of America to show us how to do it."

The Onion News.

Willravel · 08-24-2010, 09:24 PM

Hahah... they've been hitting it out of the park recently.

Wes Mantooth · 08-24-2010, 10:46 PM

Nice, Xerxys!

mixedmedia · 08-25-2010, 03:35 AM

no offense, but that video requires more than a 'this video is very graphic' disclaimer.

True, US atrocities are no more or less brutal, but they are US (our) atrocities. Not the actions of non-state sponsored, kidnapping militant groups. I'm not sure what your point is in posting this video.

...oops, I guess that was a page or so ago...

---------- Post added at 07:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------

And the recruitment of child soldiers is hardly limited to the Islamic world. And if you really want to get down to it, sending 18-year-olds off to war isn't exactly noble in comparison.

/sorry to take things so far off topic...I stop now.

ring · 08-25-2010, 08:57 AM

I removed that video. It was a bad idea to post it, way off topic..etc.

Ustwo · 08-27-2010, 07:01 AM

Your password is 14848 days old, and has therefore expired.

I'm sitting at work with many things better to do, and because of that I, almost reflexively, after a couple of years, hit Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Powered by vBulletin.

I see, oddly, almost the exact same people.

I also see you still need my guidance but my time is limited.

On this though, I felt my input may be needed here for a bit of perspective.

http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-an...-Faiths.aspx#4

Same company that gave us 18% Obama is a Muslim.

Look closely.

36% of Democrats think they have spoken with the dead.
11% more Liberals think they have seen ghosts than conservatives.
22% of Democrats have gone to psychics or fortunetellers as compared to 9% of republicans.

Now the question was Americans thinking Obama was Muslim but the implication is Republicans.

Basically the take home lesson here is that 20% of the people will believe just about anything, and its not just Americans.

Its not political, its just humanity. People are just stupid.

I'm actually surprised its ONLY 18%.

The_Jazz · 08-27-2010, 07:07 AM

Welcome back. I, for one, have missed you. Hopefully you like the changes we've made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Its not political, its just humanity. People are just stupid.

Well that just holds true for pretty much anything.

Xazy · 08-27-2010, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Your password is 14848 days old, and has therefore expired.

I'm sitting at work with many things better to do, and because of that I, almost reflexively, after a couple of years, hit Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Powered by vBulletin.

I see, oddly, almost the exact same people.

I also see you still need my guidance but my time is limited.

On this though, I felt my input may be needed here for a bit of perspective.

http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-an...-Faiths.aspx#4

Same company that gave us 18% Obama is a Muslim.

Look closely.

36% of Democrats think they have spoken with the dead.
11% more Liberals think they have seen ghosts than conservatives.
22% of Democrats have gone to psychics or fortunetellers as compared to 9% of republicans.

Now the question was Americans thinking Obama was Muslim but the implication is Republicans.

Basically the take home lesson here is that 20% of the people will believe just about anything, and its not just Americans.

Its not political, its just humanity. People are just stupid.

I'm actually surprised its ONLY 18%.

Welcome back!

After seeing that other survey I feel it is safe to assume Obama is a muslim ghost.

Baraka_Guru · 08-27-2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Welcome back. I, for one, have missed you.

Ditto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Its not political, its just humanity. People are just stupid.

I'm actually surprised its ONLY 18%.

While your statement rings true, and I appreciate and thank you for your big-picture view, I want to keep things in perspective here.

Those who hold seances, hunt ghosts, and pay good money to speak with psychics aren't using these beliefs to be political obstructionists, nor are they using their beliefs politically as they steal a bunch of sweet media coverage.

Stupid people can believe all they want about the President. But when they use these beliefs to influence the public sphere, we should have a problem with that.

...regardless, welcome back. I hope you decide to drop in now and again when you have the time.

Plan9 · 08-27-2010, 08:20 AM

Holy shit, it's UsTwo!

*squeals like a herd of horomonal American girls seeing The Beatles for the first time*

Willravel · 08-27-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

36% of Democrats think they have spoken with the dead.
11% more Liberals think they have seen ghosts than conservatives.
22% of Democrats have gone to psychics or fortunetellers as compared to 9% of republicans.

This may have more to do with the fact the right is so cozy with evangelical Christianity. Speaking with the dead, seeing ghosts, and seeing fortune tellers aren't exactly what I would call Christian kinds of things, at least in the 21st century (a few thousand years ago, apparently, it happened all the time). I suspect people on the right are more prone to things like speaking in tongues, seeing/hearing/experiencing Jesus/The Holy Spirit, and other more Christian-like supernatural experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Now the question was Americans thinking Obama was Muslim but the implication is Republicans.

Basically the take home lesson here is that 20% of the people will believe just about anything, and its not just Americans.

Its not political, its just humanity. People are just stupid.

I'm actually surprised its ONLY 18%.

You're right, people are kinda stupid, but I somehow doubt people thought, say, George W. Bush or Bill Clinton were secret Muslims. At least not 1 in 5 polled. The pertinent question is: why this particular stupid belief and why is it so common?

Pearl Trade · 08-27-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

The pertinent question is: why this particular stupid belief and why is it so common?

False rumors and opinions spread like wildfire, making some people believe that it's a fact. "Well, I've heard it from Bobby and Tina and Ashley, and I trust them, so it must be true."

Then there's the obvious problem of correction, or the (lack of) exposure for the correction being made. The media likes to make a big deal about the start of something, then when something new comes along they switch their attention, and finally, when there's an update about old news it gets passed over. You even see it local news, "remember that guy who had 32 snakes and a zebra living in his backyard on the other side of town? Whatever happened to him?"

filtherton · 08-27-2010, 12:36 PM

Welcome back, ustwo. Interesting that pan leaves and shortly after, you come back. Nobody ever saw Clark Kent and superman together either.

Wes Mantooth · 08-27-2010, 12:54 PM

Its all about gullibility. Like I was saying earlier there is always going to be a small percentage of our country that believes everything they hear, after all why would anybody go through all the trouble to report something that wasn't true? Right now functioning members of society running around convinced that those in power are reptilians from another dimension (seriously, google it), its why blurry photos and costumes have convinced a large percentage of people that groups of giant bi-pedal apes are running around the woods of North America. Hell if you started a rumor that Obama didn't come from Kenya but in fact the rings of Neptune and was here to devour children and send their souls back to slave in the salt mines on Triton you'd probably find a shocking number of people that believe it once it gets legs.

loquitur · 08-27-2010, 01:02 PM

Actually, this thread reminds me of

this ad for the New York Post

.

pig · 08-28-2010, 07:21 AM

Well, first welcome ustwo : will the forces of yin and yang require that host return? Could it be?

Secondly, in all fairness - the possibility of Obama being in some way a "secret" Muslim is more plausible than him being an alien...but that's not really the issue. Any of our presidents could have secretly been quite a number of things...amongst them Freemasons, Skull&Crossbones, New World Order, PNAC, Communists, Free Tibetians etc...and there wasn't the mass upheaval. That's where I personally find this so interesting - racist politics moving towards mainstreaming under different guises.

However, I did hear recently that Obama might be a secret MEXICAN ILLEGAL Muslim!!! And Gay!!!

mixedmedia · 08-28-2010, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

That's where I personally find this so interesting - racist politics moving towards mainstreaming under different guises.

+1

Only I would replace the word 'interesting' with 'disturbing.'

Xerxys · 09-04-2010, 07:49 AM

What was this thread originally about? It got so sidetracked I never bothered to read many of the posts.

You want a breakdown of Obama's beliefs properly articulated then perhaps we should turn to this guy.

Quote:

Barack Obama: Closeted Non-Believer?

Ali A. RizviCanadian writer, physician, and musician
Posted: August 27, 2010 04:47 PM

"Before we get carried away, let's read our Bibles now," said the young first-term Senator from Illinois in his speech to Call for Renewal, a liberal Christian group. "Folks haven't been reading their Bibles!"

It was June 2006, and it wasn't long before Barack Obama started to draw the wrath of evangelicals like James Dobson for the controversial speech. Earlier, he had asked:

Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy?

Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is okay, and that eating shellfish is an abomination?

Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith.

Or should we just stick with the Sermon on the Mount, a passage that is so radical that it is doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?

Ever since his presidential campaign, Obama's religious beliefs have been the focus of constant, unending speculation. Fox and Friends co-host Steve Doocy has been obsessed with the fact that Obama hasn't yet joined a church since moving to Washington and that he didn't make 2009's National Day of Prayer a formal event. Later in the year, his network duly noted that Obama hadn't even attended church on Christmas.

Bret Baier had had enough. By the time March rolled along, the issue of the Obamas' churchlessness resurfaced on his show, this time accompanied by a graphic showing Barack and Michelle Obama in front of a cross, with a caption reading "Commitment Issues." Fair and balanced indeed.

And then the poll came. Now that we know that almost one in five Americans believes Obama is a Muslim, with only a third saying he's a Christian, the president's religion is in the headlines again.

The 2008 campaign had some unabashed religio-political undertones. A pandering John McCain had declared the United States a "Christian nation." There was a presidential debate held by Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren, where Obama and McCain were asked in detail about their religious beliefs. And a Jesus-freak hockey mom who had said that the Iraq war was "God's plan" got pretty close to becoming vice president.

That election season had followed eight years of progressively increasing "religionization" of America under a president who, during a debate in his 2004 re-election campaign, had said, "God wants everyone to be free, and that is part of my foreign policy."

As evidenced by the wide attention paid to the poll on Obama's religion (conducted before his remarks on the Park51 mosque controversy) and his swift rebuttal to the allegations of his non-Christianity, the religionization process is well, alive and thriving.

Obama isn't the first president to have to deal with this. Abraham Lincoln, who never joined a church and was notoriously ambiguous and secretive about his religious beliefs, famously said, "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession." In his later years, despite denouncing those who were "enemies of" or "scoffed at" religion, he reiterated, "My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."

And Lincoln wasn't alone, either. In fact, the United States was created by a very skeptical group of Founding Fathers.

The Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the Senate and signed by President John Adams in 1797, stated clearly in Article 11 that the US government is "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Thomas Jefferson, who famously wrote to Joseph Priestley in 1801 that Christianity was "the most perverted system that has ever shone on man," constructed his own version of the Bible, the Jefferson Bible, by snipping out the supernatural aspects of Christianity like angels and the Trinity, and including only the aspects relating to the life and morality of Jesus Christ.

Benjamin Franklin, also famously suspicious of organized religion, penned a dissertation detailing his criticism of Christian principles, and openly questioned the divinity of Jesus Christ.

And even though George H. W. Bush declared in 1987, "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots," another George -- George Washington -- said of the workmen he sought to employ at Mount Vernon, over two hundred years earlier in 1784, "If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists."

The words "under God" weren't added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, and America's current "In God We Trust" motto didn't appear on coins until 1864, although it only became the official US motto in 1956, when the country was undergoing a religious revival buoyed by the likes of then Secretary of State John Foster Dulles' belief that opposition to communism was justified not because of the Soviet Union's totalitarian regime, but because of it being run by atheists.

Ever since, there has been an unofficial religious litmus test for presidential candidates, and the effects have never been more blatantly in-your-face than they are now: at a time when the country may be headed for a double-dip recession and the unemployment rate still lingers close to 10 percent, the hottest stories in the media have to do with an Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero and what religion the president adheres to.

For those of us who value the principle of separation of religion and state, it's like watching a public argument about whether the president believes in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

We are encouraged, however, by the fact that based on much of what Barack Obama has written and said before running for office, including his speech to Call for Renewal and others like it, America may have the most secular president that the Oval Office has seen in decades. Secularism is not about hostility towards religion but neutrality towards it. Like Lincoln, Obama keeps his beliefs to himself, and apart from the occasional re-affirmation of his supposed Christianity -- triggered by the odd, sporadic, acute need for damage control as in the aftermath of the poll -- he doesn't wear them on his sleeve.

His thoughts on religion can be gleaned much more easily from his books, where he describes his biological father as a "confirmed atheist" and his mother as an "agnostic"; about his stepfather, whom he describes as a "nominal Muslim," he writes, in The Audacity of Hope:

When my mother remarried, it was to an Indonesian with an equally skeptical bent, a man who saw religion as not particularly useful in the practical business of making one's way in the world, and who had grown up in a country that easily blended its Islamic faith with remnants of Hinduism, Buddhism, and ancient animist traditions.

In Obama's own words:

[i]I was not raised in a religious household.

My maternal grandparents, who hailed from Kansas, had been steeped in Baptist and Methodist teachings as children, but religious faith never really took root in their hearts. My mother's own experiences as a bookish, sensitive child growing up in small towns in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas only reinforced this inherited skepticism. Her memories of the Christians who populated her youth were not fond ones.

Occasionally, for my benefit, she would recall the sanctimonious preachers who would dismiss three-quarters of the world's people as ignorant heathens doomed to spend the afterlife in eternal damnation -- and who in the same breath would insist that the earth and the heavens had been created in seven days, all geologic and astrophysical evidence to the contrary.

She remembered the respectable church ladies who were always so quick to shun those unable to meet their standards of propriety, even as they desperately concealed their own dirty little secrets; the church fathers who uttered racial epithets and chiseled their workers out of any nickel that they could ...

... For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness.

... I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part -- no introspective exertion or self-flagellation.

Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways -- and not necessarily the best way -- that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives.

... t was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well.

... [A]lthough my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.

Later, Obama talks about embracing Christianity in his 20s, implying that it was more about gaining a sense of belonging to a community than anything supernatural:

My work with the pastors and laypeople [in Chicago] deepened my resolve to lead a public life, but it also forced me to confront a dilemma that my mother never fully resolved in her own life: the fact that I had no community or shared traditions in which to ground my most deeply held beliefs. The Christians with whom I worked recognized themselves in me ... but they sensed that a part of me remained removed, detached, an observer among them. I came to realize that without an unequivocal commitment to a particular community of faith, I would be consigned at some level to always remain apart, free in the way that my mother was free, but also alone in the same ways she was ultimately alone.

In such a life I, too, might have contented myself had it not been for the particular attributes of the historically black church, attributes that helped me shed some of my skepticism and embrace the Christian faith.

This dynamic is a win for reason and rationality. Even in embracing Christianity the way he said he did, Obama is still selective: he claims to have shed "some" of his skepticism, and where his skepticism stays, it's in the right place, as evidenced by his skepticism about Scripture.

Obama may be a functional Christian, but as a man born into and raised by a family of non-religious rationalists with a healthy skepticism about religious faith, he is unlikely to govern as one.

He is also unlikely to make statements like the one Bush 41 made about atheists not being citizens or patriots. In his 2006 speech, Obama said:

Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal -- rather than religion-specific -- values.

It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason.

I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths -- including those with no faith at all.

So why the constant reaffirmations of his Christian faith? Well, it's quite possible, even likely, that Obama lied about his religious beliefs in order to be elected.

In his 2002 TED talk, renowned evolutionary biologist and atheist activist Richard Dawkins cited Paul G. Bell's meta-analysis of 43 studies from 1927 onwards showing that highly intelligent people, with high IQs and education levels, were significantly less likely to be religious. Dawkins also mentioned a 1998 study by Larson and Witham, who found that of the American scientists in the prestigious National Academy of Sciences, only 7 percent believed in a personal God.

"So, we've reached a truly remarkable situation, a grotesque mismatch between the American intelligentsia and the American electorate," said Dawkins. "If I'm right, this means that high office in the greatest country in the world is barred to the very people best qualified to hold it, the intelligentsia, unless they are prepared to lie about their beliefs." He added, "To put it bluntly, American political opportunities are heavily loaded against those who are simultaneously intelligent and honest."

In light of this unfortunate scenario, most rationalists around the world who believe that Obama is a closeted non-believer are willing to give Obama a pass on this. They do hope, though, that he comes out of the closet in his second term -- while also realizing that he may not actually make it that far if he comes out of the closet now.

Currently, agnostics, atheists, and those with no religious affiliation constitute 16 percent of the US population. That's more than Hispanics (15 percent), blacks (12 percent), or Jews (2 percent). In one of the most stark turnarounds in decades, the United States seems to have a president, raised by agnostic skeptics, who has an approach of inclusion not only towards those of all religions ("No regrets"), but also of no religion.

It's irrelevant whether Barack Obama is a Christian or a Muslim -- as long as he governs like he's neither.

>>LINK<<

Sirensong12 · 09-20-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

Welcome back!

After seeing that other survey I feel it is safe to assume Obama is a muslim ghost.

Wait until the muslim zombie apocalypse comes! You think muslims are scary now!

Luckily, I think I will get along quite well with the zombies. I have that kind of charm.

Pearl Trade · 09-20-2010, 11:28 AM

Oh no, not this thread again. Back from the grave.

Sirensong12 · 09-21-2010, 04:54 AM

Did I upset the delicate balance?

I have problems with that, resurrecting things. I'm like the Jebus of the Interwebz.

dc_dux · 09-21-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirensong12

Did I upset the delicate balance?

I have problems with that, resurrecting things. I'm like the Jebus of the Interwebz.

You dont look like Rush or Glenn....the guys who resurrected the "better dead, than red" zombies from the cold dark cellar with a new mantra..."Obama is a socialist and/or a secret Muslim"

And you're not in hell, Lucy....you're just become "tilted". Welcome

Sirensong12 · 09-21-2010, 05:45 PM

Thanks for the welcome.

08-24-2010, 11:44 AM	#81 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	why oh why did I click that link? __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

08-24-2010, 11:50 AM	#82 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	About the video (I didn't watch it): The idea of the child soldier is one of the most reprehensible in my mind. And the recruiting of impressionable minds in America will be doused by such cultural centers as this one in Lower Manhattan. That's the fucking irony of this whole thing (which now extends well beyond Lower Manhattan). The people are resisting the very thing that will combat what they're more concerned about: the same very forces behind 9/11. I just wish they'd open their eyes. Anyway, I suppose I should reserve these thoughts for the thread on this topic. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 08-24-2010 at 11:55 AM..

08-24-2010, 02:53 PM	#85 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	How many americans are indoctrinating their child soldiers? What type of informed choice, will guide their hand? Last edited by ring; 08-24-2010 at 02:55 PM..

08-24-2010, 03:53 PM	#86 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	i will refrain from posting something about ms palin... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-24-2010, 04:13 PM	#87 (permalink)
Pearl Trade Addict Location: Houston, Texas	I look past people who use their children as a vehicle to further their own cause, whatever that may be. They hide behind little kids and give them smart ass signs to show how "innocent" their struggle is. I think it's just the political extremists using their kids like that. Well, that's obvious, we all know that. So I don't think many Americans are "indoctrinating their child soldiers." I don't like the term "child soldier" being used to describe unknowing kids holding up signs. They aren't fighting for anything, they just sit around with their parents holding up a piece of cardboard. I think whatever happened in the video (I didn't watch it) is an isolated incident, not a sign of greater happenings or negative trends. __________________ Our revenge will be the laughter of our children. Give me convenience or give me death!

08-24-2010, 05:04 PM	#89 (permalink)
Walt I'm calmer than you are, dude Location: North Carolina	Anyone catch The Post's follow-up? I am shocked, SHOCKED, to learn that retarded beliefs aren't limited only to vegans and Republicans. "Much attention has been paid in recent days to a poll by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life showing that 18 percent of Americans incorrectly believe that President Obama is a Muslim. But the results of another Pew poll on religion released last December were far more shocking. It turns out that 36 percent of Democrats claim to have communed with the dead, and that 19 percent believe in casting a curse on someone using the "evil eye." Think about that: According Pew, more Democrats believe in the "evil eye" than Americans believe Obama is a Muslim." washingtonpost.com __________________ Calmer than you are...

08-24-2010, 05:10 PM	#90 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	um...you can actually read the poll results above. it says alot of things. it's actually kind of an interesting project that goes well beyond the nitwit usage being made of it in this thread and elsewhere. but hey, why bother to actually read it when you can bite summaries by other people who have and repeat them? seriously. http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/645.pdf __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 08-24-2010 at 05:12 PM..

08-24-2010, 05:12 PM	#91 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	This thread is incomplete with a picture of said evil eye. Is it the Dark Tower evil eye perchance or is more like the eye described in The Lord of the Rings? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

08-24-2010, 07:46 PM	#97 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Well, I suppose I should have said "there could very well be." __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

08-24-2010, 09:24 PM	#99 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Hahah... they've been hitting it out of the park recently.

08-24-2010, 10:46 PM	#100 (permalink)
Wes Mantooth Junkie Location: Tennessee	Nice, Xerxys! __________________ “My god I must have missed it...its hell down here!”

08-25-2010, 03:35 AM	#101 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	no offense, but that video requires more than a 'this video is very graphic' disclaimer. True, US atrocities are no more or less brutal, but they are US (our) atrocities. Not the actions of non-state sponsored, kidnapping militant groups. I'm not sure what your point is in posting this video. ...oops, I guess that was a page or so ago... ---------- Post added at 07:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ---------- And the recruitment of child soldiers is hardly limited to the Islamic world. And if you really want to get down to it, sending 18-year-olds off to war isn't exactly noble in comparison. /sorry to take things so far off topic...I stop now. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-25-2010, 08:57 AM	#102 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	I removed that video. It was a bad idea to post it, way off topic..etc.

08-27-2010, 07:01 AM	#103 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Your password is 14848 days old, and has therefore expired. I'm sitting at work with many things better to do, and because of that I, almost reflexively, after a couple of years, hit Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Powered by vBulletin. I see, oddly, almost the exact same people. I also see you still need my guidance but my time is limited. On this though, I felt my input may be needed here for a bit of perspective. http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-an...-Faiths.aspx#4 Same company that gave us 18% Obama is a Muslim. Look closely. 36% of Democrats think they have spoken with the dead. 11% more Liberals think they have seen ghosts than conservatives. 22% of Democrats have gone to psychics or fortunetellers as compared to 9% of republicans. Now the question was Americans thinking Obama was Muslim but the implication is Republicans. Basically the take home lesson here is that 20% of the people will believe just about anything, and its not just Americans. Its not political, its just humanity. People are just stupid. I'm actually surprised its ONLY 18%. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

08-27-2010, 08:20 AM	#107 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Holy shit, it's UsTwo! squeals like a herd of horomonal American girls seeing The Beatles* for the first time* __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-27-2010 at 09:36 AM..

08-27-2010, 12:36 PM	#110 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Welcome back, ustwo. Interesting that pan leaves and shortly after, you come back. Nobody ever saw Clark Kent and superman together either.

08-27-2010, 12:54 PM	#111 (permalink)
Wes Mantooth Junkie Location: Tennessee	Its all about gullibility. Like I was saying earlier there is always going to be a small percentage of our country that believes everything they hear, after all why would anybody go through all the trouble to report something that wasn't true? Right now functioning members of society running around convinced that those in power are reptilians from another dimension (seriously, google it), its why blurry photos and costumes have convinced a large percentage of people that groups of giant bi-pedal apes are running around the woods of North America. Hell if you started a rumor that Obama didn't come from Kenya but in fact the rings of Neptune and was here to devour children and send their souls back to slave in the salt mines on Triton you'd probably find a shocking number of people that believe it once it gets legs. __________________ “My god I must have missed it...its hell down here!”

08-28-2010, 07:21 AM	#113 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	Well, first welcome ustwo : will the forces of yin and yang require that host return? Could it be? Secondly, in all fairness - the possibility of Obama being in some way a "secret" Muslim is more plausible than him being an alien...but that's not really the issue. Any of our presidents could have secretly been quite a number of things...amongst them Freemasons, Skull&Crossbones, New World Order, PNAC, Communists, Free Tibetians etc...and there wasn't the mass upheaval. That's where I personally find this so interesting - racist politics moving towards mainstreaming under different guises. However, I did hear recently that Obama might be a secret MEXICAN ILLEGAL Muslim!!! And Gay!!! __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

09-20-2010, 11:28 AM	#117 (permalink)
Pearl Trade Addict Location: Houston, Texas	Oh no, not this thread again. Back from the grave. __________________ Our revenge will be the laughter of our children. Give me convenience or give me death!

09-21-2010, 04:54 AM	#118 (permalink)
Sirensong12 Upright Location: in hell, I think	Did I upset the delicate balance? I have problems with that, resurrecting things. I'm like the Jebus of the Interwebz. __________________ After you have exhausted what there is in business, politics, conviviality, and so on - have found that none of these finally satisfy, or permanently wear - what remains? Nature remains. Walt Whitman, US poet (1819 - 1892)

09-21-2010, 05:45 PM	#120 (permalink)
Sirensong12 Upright Location: in hell, I think	Thanks for the welcome. __________________ After you have exhausted what there is in business, politics, conviviality, and so on - have found that none of these finally satisfy, or permanently wear - what remains? Nature remains. Walt Whitman, US poet (1819 - 1892)