Mosque planned to be built near Ground Zero - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ring · 07-23-2010, 01:15 PM

It reminds me of: "Mom! she hit me first!"

Hopefully our planet will decide to keep us around for awhile in the hope
that we can grow up.

Do Mosques use incense?
I've had a lifelong question.
Every place of worship I have ever been in, (and there have been many different species) they all smell the same.

It's pleasant, whatever it is.

filtherton · 07-23-2010, 01:20 PM

I hate to break this up guys, but if we don't leave soon we're going to be late for our waspcathojew hate group meeting. I'm bringing cupcakes!

The_Dunedan · 07-23-2010, 01:27 PM

This whole brouhaha is ridiculous. I've been happy to see a number of right-libertarian commentators come out against Mrs. Palin (understandable, if somewhat short-sighted perspective) and especially against Mr. Gingrich (complete reactionary nonsense) and his detestable hangers-on in the Hate All Muslims wing of the GOP. So long as no NITR* activity goes down in the centre in question, what's the big deal? If some bigoted morons can't be bothered to remember that Muslims died on 9/11 as well, and that the NITRs responsible hate and wish to eradicate moderate Muslims even -more- than us plain-ol-Infidels, they need what Dr. Paul would call a "refresher course." I wonder if Mr. Guiliani has gotten through his Summer Reading list yet?

Jeezus, people, nobody bitched about St. Pat's Cathedral because of the IRA's bullshit, or the various Synagogues and Jewish activist HQs because of the Irgun and the Stern Gang.

*Facepalm*

*Neo-Islamic Totalitarian Radical

Wes Mantooth · 07-23-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ring

It reminds me of: "Mom! she hit me first!"

Exactly. I think what bothers me about the inverse argument is it assumes that everybody on either the left or right thinks exactly the same and because some liberal somewhere may have said or done something against white Christians it renders any argument from the left (as though this is a left issue) invalid and easily dismissed. The same can be said about conservative issues as well.

All it does is detract from the issue and degenerate any debate into a left vs right pissing contest.

Walt · 07-23-2010, 03:37 PM

I, for one, would like to see a moratorium on the development of any and all houses of worship. And have them all replaced with micro-brewery strip clubs.

hiredgun · 07-23-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idyllic

It is being built as a community center for all faiths B_G, not just the Islamic community, or is it? I am suggesting that a Community Center that is NON-religious or ALL-religions together would be better than one that conforms to a specific religion wherein the membership still lingers within one group as the defining genre.

Idyllic, this is like my saying that the folks doing construction down the street from me ought to build a public library rather than another church.

It's a perfectly legitimate preference, but is it really grounds for the kind of outrage we've seen against the Cordoba project? Is it legal grounds for barring them from proceeding? Is it a moral grounds for objecting to the project itself? Or can we simply acknowledge that, for the reasons you've pointed out, the project is not perfect, but that they still have every right to build it?

Cimarron29414 · 07-26-2010, 09:29 AM

So, those in opposition seem to believe that the terrorists have won if they can blow up "our" buildings and replace them with "their" buildings.

I sort of think that, if we let this center get built without a fuss, they actually lose. I know it's too late for that.

Baraka_Guru · 07-26-2010, 09:34 AM

Hey, on a positive note, at least the U.S. government didn't go the route of Muslim American internment camps.

FuglyStick · 07-26-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Hey, on a positive note, at least the U.S. government didn't go the route of Muslim American internment camps.

...much to the disappointment of a few Real Americans (TM), I'm sure.

Baraka_Guru · 07-26-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuglyStick

...much to the disappointment of a few Real Americans (TM), I'm sure.

*Ahem*

In Defense of Internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FuglyStick · 07-26-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

*Ahem*

In Defense of Internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I say.

Baraka_Guru · 07-26-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuglyStick

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I say.

Well, at least there isn't an In Defense of Bombing Mecca and Medina.

EDIT:

Crap...

YouTube- Tom Tancredo advocates bombing of Mecca and Medina

Cimarron29414 · 07-26-2010, 12:03 PM

Let's see how many times we can say "Republican Presidential Hopeful" in three minutes.

Guy's a nutjob. Propaganda media.

Derwood · 07-28-2010, 05:16 PM

I'm glad the GOP is fighting hard AGAINST a mosque near the 9/11 site, while also fighting hard AGAINST extending the promised health benefits to the first responders on 9/11.

Heckuva party they're running there

Baraka_Guru · 07-28-2010, 05:22 PM

They're Republicans. They fight against things. That's what they do.

hiredgun · 08-01-2010, 02:50 AM

An update: It seems the ADL is now reversing its earlier position and coming out against the project. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/ny...mosque.html?hp

It bothers me that in the terms of the public debate, we continue to call this project a 'mosque'.

Consider the way space is allocated in the proposed structure, the range of expected activities, and the primary function as expressed by those running the project. If Cordoba House is a mosque, then my alma mater is a Catholic church.

dogzilla · 08-01-2010, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

They're Republicans. They fight against things. That's what they do.

Kind of like Demoocrats who block shopping malls because they might affect the traffic in their precious little town.

Let the muslims build their mosque. It's not going to hurt anything.

ASU2003 · 08-01-2010, 07:53 AM

Have they built anything there yet? I'm still trying to figure out why there isn't a skyscraper opening in 2011 there. 10 years should have been more than enough time to build everything.

Cynthetiq · 08-01-2010, 11:18 AM

more than enough time. WTC 7 is already open and rented out.

Wes Mantooth · 08-01-2010, 11:28 AM

From what I understand isn't there just a whole slough of politics standing in the way of rebuilding? I seem to recall hearing a lot about that a few years ago...but yeah it is odd that seemingly nothing has been done yet, even Government doesn't usually run this slowly.

Seaver · 08-01-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

From what I understand isn't there just a whole slough of politics standing in the way of rebuilding? I seem to recall hearing a lot about that a few years ago...but yeah it is odd that seemingly nothing has been done yet, even Government doesn't usually run this slowly.

Read more: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...#ixzz0vO0ZMxKw

It's not the government, it's the landowner.

He hired an architect to create the new tower (Freedom Tower), unfortunately this architect has 0 experience in buildings over 4 stories. Other architects reviewed the plans, and it would have immediately collapsed.

So the architect re-planned it, other architects reviewed it, and it would have been unusable with the elevator configuration.

So the architect re-planned it, other architects reviewed it, and again it would have immediately collapsed.

That's the last I heard about it... and this was a good 6 years ago.

Wes Mantooth · 08-01-2010, 12:25 PM

That makes it a little clearer Seaver, but weren't a lot of the rejections coming from the State/City (perhaps they were arguing over the actually design?) or do I just have a horrible memory?

MSD · 08-09-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU2003

My bigger question is why can't they build anything at ground zero? I mean Dubai and other major cities have built huge skyscrapers in the past 9 years, we still have a hole in the ground.

We don't have projects on the scale that Dubai does because we don't have a few hundred thousand slave laborers to do all the work for us.

And if anyone isn't aware of it, One WTC is under construction and is up to over 30 stories, with concrete poured for 26 or 27 as of the end of July.

dlish · 08-09-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

We don't have projects on the scale that Dubai does because we don't have a few hundred thousand slave laborers to do all the work for us.

And if anyone isn't aware of it, One WTC is under construction and is up to over 30 stories, with concrete poured for 26 or 27 as of the end of July.

its not that you dont have slave labour. thats not the issue. unemployment is so high jn the states that if work was really in demand, that those projects would create those thousands of jobs that needed to be filled. Dubai and Abu Dhabi have paved the way for their mega developments by ridding themselves of red tape that is endemic in the western world. in fact it is one thing i admire most about the UAE, it ability to 'get shit done'. what usually takes years of political infighting generally takes a few months here (like the Wage Protection System WPS that was introduced about a year ago now)

But lets not throw stones if we live in glass houses shall we. If we dig hard enough we could see how the western world subjugated the indigenous population for their own commercial gains

Seaver · 08-09-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

in fact it is one thing i admire most about the UAE, it ability to 'get shit done'. what usually takes years of political infighting generally takes a few months here (like the Wage Protection System WPS that was introduced about a year ago now)

Read more: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...#ixzz0w985viMn

Unfortunately getting rid of the red tape helped ensure a death a day on the Burj Dubai during some months. Should we do that here?

dlish · 08-09-2010, 06:39 PM

it wasnt the red tape that was the cause of the death-a-day statistic, its the lack of saftey measures being implemented by main contractors and subcontractors.

In an emerging city in a boom period and running on tight construction programmes, safety is bound to be neglected sometimes. The last few years (and ever since the financial meltdown) have seen a marked decrease in the number of worker deaths and and increase in safety policies. But sometimes no matter how much you try and prevent accidents, or how much training you provide, you cant help accidents from occuring.

I'm assuming that if you were going to build WTC again, that the safety policies of US contractors are far more advanced and safety inspections by consultants and authorities more thorough than in an emerging nation. There's still many things to fix here, no doubt.

Baraka_Guru · 08-14-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
New York Times
August 13, 2010
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

WASHINGTON — President Obama delivered a strong defense on Friday night of a proposed Muslim community center and mosque near ground zero in Manhattan, using a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan to proclaim that “as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country.”

After weeks of avoiding the high-profile battle over the center — his press secretary, Robert Gibbs, said last week that the president did not want to “get involved in local decision-making” — Mr. Obama stepped squarely into the thorny debate.

“I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” the president said in remarks prepared for the annual White House iftar, the sunset meal breaking the day’s fast.

But, he continued: “This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are.”

In hosting the iftar, Mr. Obama was following a White House tradition that, while sporadic, dates to Thomas Jefferson, who held a sunset dinner for the first Muslim ambassador to the United States. President George W. Bush hosted iftars annually.

Aides to Mr. Obama say privately that he has always felt strongly about the proposed community center and mosque, but the White House did not want to weigh in until local authorities made a decision on the proposal, planned for two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 attack on the World Trade Center.

Last week, New York City removed the final construction hurdle for the project, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg spoke forcefully in favor of it.

The community center proposal has led to a national uproar over Islam, 9/11 and freedom of religion during a hotly contested midterm election season.

In New York, Rick A. Lazio, a Republican candidate for governor and a former member of the House of Representatives, issued a statement responding to Mr. Obama’s remarks, saying that the president was still “not listening to New Yorkers.”

“With over 100 mosques in New York City, this is not an issue of religion, but one of safety and security,” he said.

Sarah Palin, the former governor of Alaska and the Republican vice-presidential candidate in 2008, has called the project “an unnecessary provocation” and urged “peace-seeking Muslims” to reject it.

The Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish organization, has also opposed the center.

In his remarks, Mr. Obama distinguished between the terrorists who plotted the 9/11 attacks and Islam. “Al Qaeda’s cause is not Islam — it is a gross distortion of Islam,” the president said, adding, “In fact, Al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion, and that list includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11.”

Noting that “Muslim Americans serve with honor in our military,” Mr. Obama said that at next week’s iftar at the Pentagon, “tribute will be paid to three soldiers who gave their lives in Iraq and now rest among the heroes of Arlington National Cemetery.”

Mr. Obama ran for office promising to improve relations with the Muslim world, by taking steps like closing the detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and more generally reaching out. In a speech in Cairo last year, he vowed “a new beginning.”

But Ali Abunimah, an Arab-American journalist and author, said the president has since left many Muslims disappointed.

“There has been no follow-through; Guantánamo is still open and so forth, so all you have left for him to show is in the symbolic field,” Mr. Abunimah said, adding that it was imperative for Mr. Obama to “stand up to Islamophobia.”

Once Mr. Bloomberg spoke out, the president’s course seemed clear, said Steven Clemons of the New America Foundation, a public policy institution here.

“Bloomberg’s speech was, I think, the pivotal one, and set the standard for leadership on this issue,” Mr. Clemons said.

Mr. Bloomberg, in a statement, said: “This proposed mosque and community center in Lower Manhattan is as important a test of the separation of church and state as we may see in our lifetime, and I applaud President Obama’s clarion defense of the freedom of religion tonight.”

Sharif el-Gamal, the developer on the project, said, “We are deeply moved and tremendously grateful for our president’s words.”

A building on the site of the proposed center is already used for prayers, and some worshipers there on Friday night discussed the president’s remarks.

Mohamed Haroun, an intern at a mechanical engineering firm, said, “What he should have said was: ‘This is a community decision. Constitutionally, they have the right to do it, but it’s a community decision and we should see what the local community wants to do.’ ”

Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site - NYTimes.com

I'm am pleased with this. Obama has reasserted the importance of religious freedom by supporting the building of the community centre.

What do you think?
Has he unnecessarily waded into a political/religious debate?
Has he made the right move, as a president should support America's freedoms?

Tully Mars · 08-14-2010, 07:55 AM

I think he's doing the right thing... also think it's going to hurt him greatly.

FuglyStick · 08-14-2010, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site - NYTimes.com

I'm am pleased with this. Obama has reasserted the importance of religious freedom by supporting the building of the community centre.

What do you think?
Has he unnecessarily waded into a political/religious debate?
Has he made the right move, as a president should support America's freedoms?

Frankly, it's the only correct response. The right ought to be cheering in the streets, given this display of support for constitutional principles.

*crickets*

Seaver · 08-14-2010, 08:17 AM

Tea Party leader Mark Williams says Muslims worship a 'monkey god', blasts Ground Zero mosque

Quote:

A National Tea Party leader protesting a proposed mosque near Ground Zero set off a firestorm of anger Wednesday by saying that Muslims worship "the terrorists' monkey god."

Mark Williams, chairman of the Tea Party Express, blogged about the 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center planned at Park Place and Broadway, calling it a monument to the 9/11 terrorists.

"The monument would consist of a Mosque for the worship of the terrorists' monkey-god," Williams, a frequent guest on CNN, wrote on his Web site.

Just remember... it's not because of xenophobia they are opposed to the mosque....

I'm glad Obama is finally speaking up. Once again I did not vote for him but I'm continually growing fond of him.

Cynthetiq · 08-14-2010, 08:20 AM

I'm not pleased with Obama's insertion of opinion on local issues that do not involve local politicians. I'm fine with his position and outlook, but I don't think that it is the president's position that he weighs in on local issues. I've had this position since before he had a beer meeting.

Baraka_Guru · 08-14-2010, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I'm not pleased with Obama's insertion of opinion on local issues that do not involve local politicians. I'm fine with his position and outlook, but I don't think that it is the president's position that he weighs in on local issues. I've had this position since before he had a beer meeting.

It's not exactly a local issue if you consider the fact that this isn't the first time an Islamic center/mosque has been opposed by the public. This just happens to be a high-profile case.

I don't see it ever inappropriate for the President to support one of America's freedoms.

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

Just remember... it's not because of xenophobia they are opposed to the mosque....

That comment about the monkey-god is laughable....I thought that Islam and Christianity essentially have the same god....

FuglyStick · 08-14-2010, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

Tea Party leader Mark Williams says Muslims worship a 'monkey god', blasts Ground Zero mosque

Just remember... it's not because of xenophobia they are opposed to the mosque....

I'm glad Obama is finally speaking up. Once again I did not vote for him but I'm continually growing fond of him.

In front of an image of the constitution, no less.

dlish · 08-14-2010, 08:31 AM

what Obama should have said was..

"...as a citizen,I believe that Muslims have the same right to ..."

i personally dont think he should be speaking in the capacity of president in the case that his opinion influences any decisions.

Cynthetiq · 08-14-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

It's not exactly a local issue if you consider the fact that this isn't the first time an Islamic center/mosque has been opposed by the public. This just happens to be a high-profile case.

I don't see it ever inappropriate for the President to support one of America's freedoms.

Funny I don't see him supporting on any of the right to bear arms case, even the one in his own backyard of Chicago, IL. That was a very high profile case and his position on the right to bear arms is flip floppy at best.

---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

what Obama should have said was..

"...as a citizen,I believe that Muslims have the same right to ..."

i personally dont think he should be speaking in the capacity of president in the case that his opinion influences any decisions.

exactly. just like the staff's words here are heard not as members of the community but as staff, his are heard as President unless he prefaces it as in your quote.

Baraka_Guru · 08-14-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

what Obama should have said was..

"...as a citizen,I believe that Muslims have the same right to ..."

i personally dont think he should be speaking in the capacity of president in the case that his opinion influences any decisions.

I am under the impression that it isn't a bad idea for a nation's leader to support a nation's freedoms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Funny I don't see him supporting on any of the right to bear arms case, even the one in his own backyard of Chicago, IL. That was a very high profile case and his position on the right to bear arms is flip floppy at best.

Are you talking about a court case? That's another thing all together.

Cynthetiq · 08-14-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I am under the impression that it isn't a bad idea for a nation's leader to support a nation's freedoms.

Are you talking about a court case? That's another thing all together.

First starting with his position on gun control and then his comments on the latest Supreme Court ruling. I don't think it's another thing all together if you're saying that he's showing support of the Constitution freedoms.

Baraka_Guru · 08-14-2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

First starting with his position on gun control and then his comments on the latest Supreme Court ruling. I don't think it's another thing all together if you're saying that he's showing support of the Constitution freedoms.

Are you referring to his revising his position in his favouring the overturning the Washington gun ban? He's in line with a more open interpretation of the Second Amendment than he was before he was president. I don't know what he's said about Chicago.

So generally what we are seeing is a) his stating his support for the Second Amendment, and b) his stating his support for freedom of religion (First Amendment).

Cynthetiq · 08-14-2010, 09:09 AM

sorry, no.

Quote:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual’s right to bear arms?

A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can’t constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

If that's the case, then the LOCAL government and people should be able to determine if a mosque should be in the downtown area of Manhattan.

Baraka_Guru · 08-14-2010, 09:19 AM

I see your point, but I don't see these as the same kind of issue.

It would only be the same if the gun ban or limitations were applied to a specific class of people, but it's applied to everyone who can or want to own guns within the area.

I don't see zoning laws stating things like, "Christian or Jewish houses of worship are permissible, other religions' houses of worship are permissible with a special permit; however, Islamic houses of worship are not permitted under any circumstances."

If it's okay to have other religious buildings in the area, then it should be okay to have an Islamic building in the area.

Let's not consider Islam the handgun or "assault rifle" of religions.

07-23-2010, 01:15 PM	#81 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	It reminds me of: "Mom! she hit me first!" Hopefully our planet will decide to keep us around for awhile in the hope that we can grow up. Do Mosques use incense? I've had a lifelong question. Every place of worship I have ever been in, (and there have been many different species) they all smell the same. It's pleasant, whatever it is. Last edited by ring; 07-23-2010 at 01:21 PM..

07-23-2010, 03:37 PM	#85 (permalink)
Walt I'm calmer than you are, dude Location: North Carolina	I, for one, would like to see a moratorium on the development of any and all houses of worship. And have them all replaced with micro-brewery strip clubs. __________________ Calmer than you are... Last edited by Walt; 07-23-2010 at 03:40 PM..

07-26-2010, 09:29 AM	#87 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	So, those in opposition seem to believe that the terrorists have won if they can blow up "our" buildings and replace them with "their" buildings. I sort of think that, if we let this center get built without a fuss, they actually lose. I know it's too late for that. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." Last edited by Cimarron29414; 07-26-2010 at 11:15 AM..

07-26-2010, 09:34 AM	#88 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Hey, on a positive note, at least the U.S. government didn't go the route of Muslim American internment camps. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

07-26-2010, 12:03 PM	#93 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	Let's see how many times we can say "Republican Presidential Hopeful" in three minutes. Guy's a nutjob. Propaganda media. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

07-23-2010, 01:20 PM	#82 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I hate to break this up guys, but if we don't leave soon we're going to be late for our waspcathojew hate group meeting. I'm bringing cupcakes!

07-23-2010, 01:27 PM	#83 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	This whole brouhaha is ridiculous. I've been happy to see a number of right-libertarian commentators come out against Mrs. Palin (understandable, if somewhat short-sighted perspective) and especially against Mr. Gingrich (complete reactionary nonsense) and his detestable hangers-on in the Hate All Muslims wing of the GOP. So long as no NITR* activity goes down in the centre in question, what's the big deal? If some bigoted morons can't be bothered to remember that Muslims died on 9/11 as well, and that the NITRs responsible hate and wish to eradicate moderate Muslims even -more- than us plain-ol-Infidels, they need what Dr. Paul would call a "refresher course." I wonder if Mr. Guiliani has gotten through his Summer Reading list yet? Jeezus, people, nobody bitched about St. Pat's Cathedral because of the IRA's bullshit, or the various Synagogues and Jewish activist HQs because of the Irgun and the Stern Gang. Facepalm *Neo-Islamic Totalitarian Radical

07-28-2010, 05:16 PM	#94 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	I'm glad the GOP is fighting hard AGAINST a mosque near the 9/11 site, while also fighting hard AGAINST extending the promised health benefits to the first responders on 9/11. Heckuva party they're running there __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

07-28-2010, 05:22 PM	#95 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	They're Republicans. They fight against things. That's what they do. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

08-01-2010, 02:50 AM	#96 (permalink)
hiredgun Addict	An update: It seems the ADL is now reversing its earlier position and coming out against the project. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/ny...mosque.html?hp It bothers me that in the terms of the public debate, we continue to call this project a 'mosque'. Consider the way space is allocated in the proposed structure, the range of expected activities, and the primary function as expressed by those running the project. If Cordoba House is a mosque, then my alma mater is a Catholic church.

08-01-2010, 07:53 AM	#98 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Have they built anything there yet? I'm still trying to figure out why there isn't a skyscraper opening in 2011 there. 10 years should have been more than enough time to build everything.

08-01-2010, 11:18 AM	#99 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	more than enough time. WTC 7 is already open and rented out. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-01-2010, 11:28 AM	#100 (permalink)
Wes Mantooth Junkie Location: Tennessee	From what I understand isn't there just a whole slough of politics standing in the way of rebuilding? I seem to recall hearing a lot about that a few years ago...but yeah it is odd that seemingly nothing has been done yet, even Government doesn't usually run this slowly. __________________ “My god I must have missed it...its hell down here!”

08-01-2010, 12:25 PM	#102 (permalink)
Wes Mantooth Junkie Location: Tennessee	That makes it a little clearer Seaver, but weren't a lot of the rejections coming from the State/City (perhaps they were arguing over the actually design?) or do I just have a horrible memory? __________________ “My god I must have missed it...its hell down here!”

08-09-2010, 06:39 PM	#106 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	it wasnt the red tape that was the cause of the death-a-day statistic, its the lack of saftey measures being implemented by main contractors and subcontractors. In an emerging city in a boom period and running on tight construction programmes, safety is bound to be neglected sometimes. The last few years (and ever since the financial meltdown) have seen a marked decrease in the number of worker deaths and and increase in safety policies. But sometimes no matter how much you try and prevent accidents, or how much training you provide, you cant help accidents from occuring. I'm assuming that if you were going to build WTC again, that the safety policies of US contractors are far more advanced and safety inspections by consultants and authorities more thorough than in an emerging nation. There's still many things to fix here, no doubt. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

08-14-2010, 07:55 AM	#108 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	I think he's doing the right thing... also think it's going to hurt him greatly. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

08-14-2010, 08:20 AM	#111 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I'm not pleased with Obama's insertion of opinion on local issues that do not involve local politicians. I'm fine with his position and outlook, but I don't think that it is the president's position that he weighs in on local issues. I've had this position since before he had a beer meeting. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-14-2010, 08:31 AM	#114 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	what Obama should have said was.. "...as a citizen,I believe that Muslims have the same right to ..." i personally dont think he should be speaking in the capacity of president in the case that his opinion influences any decisions. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

08-14-2010, 09:19 AM	#120 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I see your point, but I don't see these as the same kind of issue. It would only be the same if the gun ban or limitations were applied to a specific class of people, but it's applied to everyone who can or want to own guns within the area. I don't see zoning laws stating things like, "Christian or Jewish houses of worship are permissible, other religions' houses of worship are permissible with a special permit; however, Islamic houses of worship are not permitted under any circumstances." If it's okay to have other religious buildings in the area, then it should be okay to have an Islamic building in the area. Let's not consider Islam the handgun or "assault rifle" of religions. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot