Nigerian Deaths - How Will We Respond? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

genuinegirly · 07-28-2009, 12:28 PM

In Nigeria there is unrest. Islamic militants are using bows & arrows, and machetes alongside guns and bombs against the police and military. But they are also attacking Islamic clergy. It's not isolated violence, limited to one region or state within Nigeria - it's taking hold in three states: Bauchi, Yobe, and Borno.

Why?

These militants argue that their government has been swayed by Western values.

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How should the rest of the world respond to this violence?
Do you expect a response from your nation?

I have no idea what should be done - this is why I bring the question to the TFP. It seems that western influence would only exacerbate the issue, so I expect the only response from my country will be through private relief agencies working to help pick up the pieces after the violence passes.

telekinetic · 07-28-2009, 12:34 PM

Sarcastic Question that reveals what the US response will PROBABLY be: Are they in control of territory that contains oil?

Walt · 07-28-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

Sarcastic Question that reveals what the US response will PROBABLY be: Are they in control of territory that contains oil?

Sarcastic response: Obviously oil is a big priority in the wars we are presently fighting. The US is currently importing a metric shitload of oil from Iraq and Afghanistan!

dksuddeth · 07-28-2009, 03:42 PM

a fanatically religious group of militants fighting the police and military are one thing, but are they also attacking the citizens in whatever villages are there? and why are they attacking islamic clergy if they are religious fanatics?

Walt · 07-28-2009, 03:58 PM

If someone dares to disagree with the militants and they aren't Muslim, then they must be infidels and should be killed! If someone dares to disagree with the militants, but they are Muslim...well then they are apostates and should be killed!

Nigeria is just another failed State in a failed continent.

YaWhateva · 07-28-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt

If someone dares to disagree with the militants and they aren't Muslim, then they must be infidels and should be killed! If someone dares to disagree with the militants, but they are Muslim...well then they are apostates and should be killed!

Replace Muslim with Christian or any religious sect and it works just as well.

ASU2003 · 07-28-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt

Sarcastic response: Obviously oil is a big priority in the wars we are presently fighting. The US is currently importing a metric shitload of oil from Iraq and Afghanistan!

It looks like we owed China so much money and wanted to have them continue buying our debt, we secured the oil in Iraq for them.

Iraq and China Sign $3 Billion Oil Contract - washingtonpost.com

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Africa has some real problems. One of them is religious groups using their power to oppress people.

The US shouldn't do anything overtly, but there are ways to deal with these little problems before they become bigger. We have an agency that should be able to take care of this problem quietly and keep our military out of it.

That is what I would like to see done.

IdeoFunk · 07-28-2009, 09:04 PM

Please tell me you aren't seriously suggesting that the CIA - the least credible and trustworthy branch of the government - should get involved in Nigeria???

While I don't really know anything about Nigeria's currently ruling government or these militants, I'm assuming these Islamic fundamentalists are just as ruthless as all their other counterparts and such a national conflict should garner some attention from the international community. But yeah I haven't seen anything about this in the news yet, so I have no idea how things will unfold.

Plan9 · 07-28-2009, 09:29 PM

I believe the best way to handle a temper tantrum is to ignore it.

We should keep our self-righteous white asses outta their shitstorm.

Any intervention would simply prove their "point" in this juvenile blamegame.

What are they gonna do? Shoot their worn out FALs across the ocean?

A few car bombs, a few abducted 'n beheaded Westerners.

Wooo, big fucking deal. It won't even make the front page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt

Sarcastic response: Obviously oil is a big priority in the wars we are presently fighting. The US is currently importing a metric shitload of oil from Iraq and Afghanistan!

Heh. Heh-heh. Aaah, yes, brother... and here's a prime example of the rich natural resources found in Afghanistan for the viewers at home:

ASU2003 · 07-29-2009, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdeoFunk

Please tell me you aren't seriously suggesting that the CIA - the least credible and trustworthy branch of the government - should get involved in Nigeria???

While I don't really know anything about Nigeria's currently ruling government or these militants, I'm assuming these Islamic fundamentalists are just as ruthless as all their other counterparts and such a national conflict should garner some attention from the international community. But yeah I haven't seen anything about this in the news yet, so I have no idea how things will unfold.

If they do it right, you never hear about it.

And if you stop it before it attracts a large following, it is easier to deal with.

genuinegirly · 07-29-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdeoFunk

... I haven't seen anything about this in the news yet, so I have no idea how things will unfold.

Here's a few links to news articles about the matter.
CNN: Battles with militants kill hundreds in Nigeria, group says - CNN.com
Yahoo: Nigerians battle militants, 4,000 people flee - Yahoo! News
VOA: VOA News - Security Forces Battle Militants in Northern Nigeria
BBC: BBC NEWS | Africa | Nigerian troops shell Islamists

roachboy · 07-29-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Nigerian Forces Raid Militant Compound
By ADAM NOSSITER and SHARON OTTERMAN

DAKAR, Senegal — Nigerian security forces raided the compound of a leader of a militant Islamic sect in a town in northeastern Nigeria in an effort to halt an uprising that has led to hundreds of deaths in the region, news reports said Wednesday.

More than 150 women and children fled the compound as security forces shelled it with heavy weapons and exchanged gunfire with militants Tuesday night into Wednesday, witnesses said, according to news services.

The whereabouts of the alleged leader of the sect, Mohammed Yusuf, were unknown. Witnesses told Reuters that security forces were searching house to house in Maiduguri, where the compound is located, for him and other followers of the group, popularly known as Boko Haram.

The fighting came one day after Nigeria’s president, Umaru Yar’Adua, had said that the situation in the predominately Muslim north of the country was “under control” but warned that security forces would take all necessary measures to end the violence.

“These people have been organized and are penetrating our society and procuring arms and gathering information on how to make explosions and bombs to force their view on the rest of Nigerians,” Mr. Yar’Adua said, news services reported.

The police said they had made hundreds of arrests in Maiduguri and detained 53 Boko Haram followers in Kano, 300 miles west, confiscating their homemade guns and explosives. Arrests have also been made in Sokoto, in the far northwest of the country, Reuters said.

The violence, which the authorities said began with an attack on a police station in the town of Bauchi on Sunday that left at least 39 people dead, quickly spread across four states in a heavily Muslim region long troubled by religious unrest. In this instance it appeared to have been led by an obscure fundamentalist group opposed to what the authorities call “Western education.”

A local reporter, Idris Abdullahi of the News Agency of Nigeria, said Maiduguri was essentially shut down Tuesday. In a telephone interview, he said that the streets were deserted and that he had seen “100 bodies” of militants at the police headquarters; other reports spoke of as many as 260 dead there. The official death toll as of Tuesday was 55 — 50 militants and five security officers.

“The economy is paralyzed,” Mr. Abdullahi said. “Everything is closed down. There is no movement — only the military and police.” He said several churches had been burned by “hoodlums.”

Paul Lubeck, a political sociologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, who specializes in Nigeria and Islam, said the violence had its roots in Nigeria’s severe economic difficulties.

Despite Nigeria’s immense oil wealth, about 54 percent of its population lives on less than $1 a day, according to the World Bank. Widespread poverty and unemployment make parts of Nigeria a fertile breeding ground for the antiestablishment message of the sect’s leaders, Mr. Lubeck said.

“This particular movement is a movement of the dispossessed, the lumpen,” he said. “It’s not the major Islamic movement in the country. This is an attack on establishment Islam.”

A more mainstream Islamic group in Nigeria, the Jamaat Nasr al-Islam, or J.N.I., on Tuesday condemned the militants, whose name Boko Haram, is a Hausa expression meaning “Western education is prohibited.”

J.N.I. said through its acting secretary general, Abdulkarim Muazu, that the attacks on the police were “criminal.” Mr. Muazu added that “nobody is against Western education.”

“The first injunction is to read so that you improve on your life,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/wo...30nigeria.html

short answer: we won't respond.
we won't say anything as the nigerian state crushes this movement more or less in the way they crush most forms of politcal dissent.

the more complicated questions are in the niger river area, which is the center of nigerian oil production. lots of tasty treats about royal dutch shell, collusion with the nigerian military and lots and lots of brutality.
but of course states don't say anything.

so nothing will happen. the united states will say nothing.

it hardly makes sense to run out the "just another failed state in a failed continent" line because it says nothing at all first and second in the process of saying nothing functions as a rationalization for saying and doing nothing. again.

mixedmedia · 07-29-2009, 09:33 AM

I don't expect anything other than a diplomatic response from my country and calls to end the violence and pledges to provide humanitarian relief if the situation becomes a humanitarian (ie, refugee) crisis.

And, in this case, at this juncture, I can't imagine a more rational response. In the grand scheme of things, we have ignored much, much worse. It doesn't appear that civilians are being targeted as of yet so I'm not of the mind that any intervention is called for from any other nation - other than perhaps a neighboring one if it need be.

07-28-2009, 12:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Nigerian Deaths - How Will We Respond? In Nigeria there is unrest. Islamic militants are using bows & arrows, and machetes alongside guns and bombs against the police and military. But they are also attacking Islamic clergy. It's not isolated violence, limited to one region or state within Nigeria - it's taking hold in three states: Bauchi, Yobe, and Borno. Why? These militants argue that their government has been swayed by Western values. -------------------------------------------------- How should the rest of the world respond to this violence? Do you expect a response from your nation? I have no idea what should be done - this is why I bring the question to the TFP. It seems that western influence would only exacerbate the issue, so I expect the only response from my country will be through private relief agencies working to help pick up the pieces after the violence passes. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

07-28-2009, 12:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
telekinetic zomgomgomgomgomgomg Location: Fauxenix, Azerona	Sarcastic Question that reveals what the US response will PROBABLY be: Are they in control of territory that contains oil? __________________ twisted no more

07-28-2009, 03:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	a fanatically religious group of militants fighting the police and military are one thing, but are they also attacking the citizens in whatever villages are there? and why are they attacking islamic clergy if they are religious fanatics? __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

07-28-2009, 03:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Walt I'm calmer than you are, dude Location: North Carolina	If someone dares to disagree with the militants and they aren't Muslim, then they must be infidels and should be killed! If someone dares to disagree with the militants, but they are Muslim...well then they are apostates and should be killed! Nigeria is just another failed State in a failed continent. __________________ Calmer than you are...

07-29-2009, 09:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I don't expect anything other than a diplomatic response from my country and calls to end the violence and pledges to provide humanitarian relief if the situation becomes a humanitarian (ie, refugee) crisis. And, in this case, at this juncture, I can't imagine a more rational response. In the grand scheme of things, we have ignored much, much worse. It doesn't appear that civilians are being targeted as of yet so I'm not of the mind that any intervention is called for from any other nation - other than perhaps a neighboring one if it need be. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

07-28-2009, 09:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
IdeoFunk Crazy Location: to	Please tell me you aren't seriously suggesting that the CIA - the least credible and trustworthy branch of the government - should get involved in Nigeria??? While I don't really know anything about Nigeria's currently ruling government or these militants, I'm assuming these Islamic fundamentalists are just as ruthless as all their other counterparts and such a national conflict should garner some attention from the international community. But yeah I haven't seen anything about this in the news yet, so I have no idea how things will unfold.