Strange Famous

3 sitting MP's are being investigated by the MET for criminal fraud

I have lost count of cabinet resignations now, but I think about 10

Gordon Brown has gone to the press and talked about his wish to just walk away from the whole thing.

For 6 weeks now, we have seen a slow drip feed of revalations of our MPs using the expenses system to maximise their take... every day we see a few more of them are on the take.

The govt releases redacted info that is blacked out and censored, 6 weeks after the papers put it all into the public domain anyway

The Gurkha's crisis, a govt in a national election polling less than a sixth of the share of the vote, a Prime Minister who clearly has no authority left (the Iraq inquiry will be private, no it will be public, well of course the army will be involved.... etc etc)

To quote words that were used a time ago... "In the name of God, go!"

We have no parliament, we have no leadership, the whole of our government is held in absolute and complete contempt by the majority of the people. They must go to the people now. Surely they can see they have no mandate. Surely they can see they are finished.

We face the real prospect of our elected representatives in court defending themselves in charges of criminal fraid.... and not just one bad apple, but dozens of them...and those who dont face charges are simply the cleverer ones who had better scams. This cannot carry on.

Brown is losing it, he went on TV to talk about his honesty and how he was raised to abhor lying, and then ten seconds later told a lie (that he never considered sacking Darling)... the Lib Dems are under investigation for Proceeds of Crime laws and Money Laundering, we have Tory MPs with fucking moats and duck houses and undercourt heating on their private tennis courts which they see no issue with putting on their exes... a chancellor who is guilty of tax avoidance (not tax evasion fair enough, but definitely avoidance), we have a banking system in utter crisis... we are the laughing stock of Europe and the world.

You are no parliament!

This crisis will only deepen, they cannot just ride it out... they must go to the people and face OUR justice.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

genuinegirly

Is it terrible that this is the first I've heard of this mess?

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Baraka_Guru

This is a fertile ground for a reactionary rise to power. Which party do you see as the most likely candidate to sweep in under the guise of accountable, responsible, and honest government?

The people have been known to vote against parties as punishment, thereby enabling others for the wrong reasons. Is this an in for the Tories, do you think?

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ----------

It's been mentioned recently in another thread: all Americans should read/listen to/or watch one or more of the following:

• CBC News
• BBC News
• The Guardian

You'll get fascinating perspectives of the world outside of the U.S., plus you'll get a fascinating perspective of the U.S.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Labour cannot win the next election in my opinion... the question is whether they are out for one or two terms, or a generation...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

tisonlyi

The tories can't win the next election demographically, UNLESS there is a massive disaffection for voting from the populace.

Et Voila, the tory press is poisoning the well.

Coincidence?

I think not.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

Strange Famous

Well, the only precedent in modern times for the kind of swing that the Tories need to win an oveall majority is the swing TO Labour in 1997

But the demographics are changing...SNP is now the party of Scotland, Labour came second to the Tories in WALES in the last Euro elections. The level of unpopularity of the govt to me seems similar to the feeling against the Conservative Party in 1997... the only thing that Labour seem to be clinging onto is that the economy might pick up, and UKIP might take significant votes off the Tories in some of the marginals, but I dont see a scenario that Labour form the next govt. Even if its a hung parliament, a Lib Lab pact seems far less likely then Clegg and Cameron doing business. But if we have another 6 months like the last, an impotent lame duck PM limping along from disaster to crisis, you could be looking at 50 Labour MP's in the next parliament. I really dont think thats an exegeration. You cant read too much into council and Euro elections - but Labour do not have a single conty council now, they came behind the Greens all through the Southern regions...

I dont know how much people on this board will know about the 10% tax debacle... but there are a lot of people who will not vote for the Govt that did that to the poorest people in society. A lot of core vote that just will not turn out or if they do will vote Green (or as we saw in the Euro's, BNP)

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Daniel_

Personally I still think that Labour might hang on to the government through another election PROVIDED ( 1 ) The economy picks up, and ( 2 ) nobody fucks up ANYTHING else.

The Tories are riding high in the polls, but still don't look GOOD, they just look DIFFERENT.

This is exactly what happened to Kinnock in 1992.

The Conservatives have to look like a credible government in waiting for it to be totally certain that they'll win.

Right now, it could go either way - experience tells me that it will probably go Tory, but there's still an element of doubt that it might come out with another Labour term.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Strange Famous

I remember 1992, but it was before I was a voter.

Do you really think people will come out to vote for Brown?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

tisonlyi

They need around 45% of the vote to win outright, which they simply won't get without a mass no-show at the voting booths. Labour, I believe, need only in the low 30's% to score an outright win. Stupid, stupid, stupid first past the post voting system.

I can't see the scare campaign that Labour will undoubtedly run being so spectacularly unpopular that the Tories get in unaided. The LibDems won't be backing the Tories unless there's some sort of outright pact for Single Transferable Vote Proportional Representation (Inshallah).

Just for some background on the Tory party for folks outside the UK, it's truly terrifying how many of their current and prospective MP's went through the same tiny number of ultra-elite schools, live in castles and either possess or have renounced titles in living memory. The dear leader was a member of "The Bullingdon Club", as was the man who speaks on their economic affairs and a smattering of others in the shadow cabinet...

Clearly, this type of chap has his finger the living pulse of everyday men and women throughout the land, and most certainly wouldn't be a naked tool for an insidious power grab for the ridiculous uber-elite that the UK has failed so far to expunge.

69% of UK land is owned by... wait for it.... 6000 families (so that's somewhere between 0.1% and 0.3% of the population, depending on the numbers you apply on average to a family taken over ludicrous extremes or 10 to 30), which is frankly ludicrous... Only nearly matched for inequity by Spain... A country barely 30 or so years out of a brutal, pro-monarchist, pseudo-feudal dictatorship.

Fills my heart with pride to see this nation's great people filled with right-wing propaganda every day. Oh yes.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

Willravel

I wish this kind of sudden spread of information on corruption would happen here in the US. I'd be really happy to see a few Senators and Congressmen resign in disgrace.

I'm watching our cousins across the pond with great interest.

tisonlyi

Bizarrely, the scale of abuses noted were an order of magnitude worse for the tories than labour... yet more of the mud has stuck to the 'lefties' (who are really a thinly, if at all, veiled righty party these days) than the already rich.

Why? Well, the public expects the reactionaries to be corrupt.

About 35% of people say they'll vote for those reactionaries in the coming election.

Me - agog.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

ASU2003

Am I going to hear about this in Hyde Park at Speakers' Corner next week?

Or are there going to be Iranian style protests in the streets?

Strange Famous

I dont really agree. All of the people under investigation are Labour.

The Tory claims are the kind of "who the hell has a moat?" kind

The Labour sleaze is more about the flipping of homes to maximise allowances and avoidance of Capital Gains tax

Also (because Cameron is in a stronger position is his party) the Tories have been able to appear front foot and dealing with issues while Brown appears to dither.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

tisonlyi

Vote Tory!

I was referring to the sums involved...

The police are just recovering from the last time they tried to slap a tory on the wrist... Strange things happen when you go up against the 0.1% who own most of the country's wealth...

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

Daniel_

I think old alegiences are stronger than you think, people vote clanishly (which is why there are so many safe seats), and need a big push to vote against their tradition.

In '79, people voted FOR Thatcher, because she seemed new and fresh and full of god ideas.

Through her years in charge she was hated by more people than Brown is now, there were riots in the streets over Poll Tax for God's sake - and she sill got in again!

Major was a lame duck with a hopeless cabinet and infighting, Kinnock was popular and polling higher than Conservatives, and he lost.

If all the Conservatives can offer is "we're not Labour", I think the swing in the polls will not be reflected in full in a general election vote.

Unless the Conservatives can come to the table with an active plan that looks like it offers solutions and above all HOPE to the bulk of the country, they can't be certain to get in.

Hatred of the incumbent causes people to stay away from the polls.

Desire for something new gets apathetic voters to turn out for change, and that's what the Conservatives need to start doing - right now they are making the same mistake as Kinnock; they assume they'll win so they're not bothering to offer an actual programme.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

tisonlyi

QFT

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--