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It is all going to pot...
but here is one solution.
With the failing newspaper industry, I think that pot can be made legal once more. One of the main supporters, William Randolf Hearst, had invested in the timber industry and didn't want to lose money by hemp being the main paper source because of it's quick growing time which lowered the price. So he ran slanted stories in his newspaper playing on people's fears of reefer-madness killing sprees and what else but those pesky, dangerous Mexicans. People are still terrified of Mexicans, especially with the current drug cartel situation. Ironically, this is coming to front as the medical marijuana arguments are continuing. I think that making pot legal would help our economy through the taxation, lower the crime, and aid the failing print media by lowering the cost of production. It would also create jobs. It could hurt pharmaceutical companies, but they screw enough people so what goes around comes around. Plus, some people take things way too seriously and need to light up and lighten up. I don't understand the reason it is still illegal except that there are big money players fighting to keep it illegal so they can keep their riches, especially in this economy, and they are playing on old fears that people still have. Enlighten me with you thoughts. Or your alternative way of helping out the country while it flailing about with no straight plan except throwing around more money and talking points. |
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What the hell does this have to do with firearms?
Did I miss where this discussion was about banning firearms? |
The drug war is incredibly profitable. It's an industry. Until that industry can be overthrown, marijuana (and by extension, for no reason, hemp) will be illegal.
You overthrow the industry by getting legalization on ballots and making sure people are informed. |
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If the federal government chooses to deny the will of Californians, they could end up alienating both liberals and conservatives. Conservatives may not agree on marijuana, but they are together on states vs. federal government. Now that they can't unite under a "GOP persona", like Bush, there's a better chance they'll be desperately adhering to their principles and ideologies. Like small government. |
Some of us are perfectly capable of using marijuana while still being productive citizens. Some are not. I imagine some people are just not capable of being productive citizens period, so I don't see what an individual's productivity has to do with marijuana use, especially when medical use of marijuana allows patients who use it to remain more productive than they otherwise might be--whatever "productive" means.
I'd love to see it legalized. I think it could be a huge source of revenue for state governments. I think it would reduce the number of non-violent offenders entering our legal system, where they often get tossed in with violent offenders. I think it would keep us from wasting money on a drug war we never had a chance to win. I think it would reduce crime by allowing people to purchase their marijuana from somewhere besides these Mexican drug cartels. As for those who would claim a black market would pop up if it were legalized, I doubt it. Most everyone I've talked to who enjoys the MJ would prefer to get it through legal means. It would be less of a pain in the ass. Prices would also probably drop, even if it were heavily taxed, as growers, middlemen, and dealers inflate prices. As for legalization/ease of access increasing use, I doubt that too. It's pretty prevalent in our society already, especially where I live. I would prefer that it be out in the open. |
Make it legal for people who pay over $10,000/year in taxes. They can grow their own, or get it from approved government controled farms/consfications by police. Make rules saying they can't drive while high or have more than 5 people gathered to smoke. New parents would be banned from smoking, and leave it up to the states to choose if they want to legalize it in their state (and follow the federal rules). And make sure to tax it appropriatly.
And shut down those pot stores. Medical pot should be made by registered labs and FDA approved, and sold through the pharmacy network to people who really need it in a small quantities for personal use. |
I think timalkin is confused about correlations between smoking marijuana and being a productive member of society (whatever that means).
Attitudes like his are partly the reason it's still illegal. I hope it does get legalized, not only because it makes sense to legalize it, but also because I find the massive amount of self righteous sophistry that generally dominates both sides of the discussion (not in this thread) to be obnoxious. |
First off, I'm glad to see the pub discussions back!
Second, maybe it would help if more states were as easy going as Oregon. I mean it's easy to get medicinal marijuana there, as well as legal (snowy can elaborate) as long as it's a personal amount. I mean wtf is pot really hurting? There are already laws against driving while high..and the war on drugs is one big conspiracy. The government should take a more transparent stance and allow at least marijuana to be legal under certain conditions. I kinda like how Bill Hicks puts it Quote:
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Also, why no more than 5 people congregated to smoke? Elaborate please... |
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God grows Grass. Man distills liquor
Who do you trust? |
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timalkin: would it be fair to say that you are also for the prohibition of alcohol then, since so many people die each year due to drunk drivers? And what about second-hand smoke? Sounds like you might be for the prohibition of cigarettes as well.
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jesus, timalkin. and I thought I had a sour outlook on humanity.
I support the legalization of marijuana for all of the reasons that snowy accounted for up there. I also take exception with the idea that pot 'makes' people anything. Maybe you just know too many lazy, directionless pieces of shit in general. |
trans fats cause so many heart attacks, and some of those people are driving.
Perhaps the fast food should be prohibited as well? ---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ---------- Quote:
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I know a lot of people who don't use pot and are lazy, directionless, no ambition pieces of shit. I think the criminalization of pot is idiotic. The amount of tax revenue that comes in, not to mention the reduction in crime and the ability to help damage the cartels that are dependent on that revenue. Right now, lawmakers outlaw pot as a treatment for people who desperately need the relief pot would give them, but cannot. At the same time, opiates such as morphine are routinely prescribed, and rightly so. I just don't understand why pot is so demonized. Note: This comes from someone that has never even tried pot. |
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I think that you're arguments are quite a slippery slope. Anything can kill everyone. In fact, junk food clogs arteries and causes many health problems. So, perhaps, junk food needs be overly taxed to off-set health-care costs. In fact, driving without sunglasses when the sun is out can abstract the driver's vision and I could get run over. Make that illegal, dammit. Now that I think about it, don't people get an adrenaline rush from shooting a gun. And those things can *really* kill people. Yup, you're right. Since we're working with stereotypes here, I'll respond to your original reply. I am one of those people that would rather have lazy, directionless, no ambition piece of shit around rather than an irate, intolerant, paranoid gun-toter. |
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timalkin: There are a lot of pieces of shit who smoke marijuana. And a lot of pieces of shit who don't. There are productive members of society who abstain, and productive members of society who partake. One of the greatest astronomers and public educators of modern times - Carl Sagan - was a frequent user of marijuana and even an advocate for its legalization. In fact, his wife serves on the Board of Directors of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. |
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yours is a surprising position timalkin: i figured you'd be more likely a consistent libertarian.
my basic position on this has already been summed up pretty well above. what i guess is worth repeating is that i don't see where pot makes anyone anything insofar as basic tendencies or dispositions are concerned. i've known more people than i can count who've smoked: nothing in particular seems to be common to them. some are exceding direct, some aren't. some smoke once in a while, some do the wake-and-bake, but even within the latter group, i know a pretty wide range of folk. so if my experience is any guide, i think timalkin is trafficking in stereotypes more than conclusions reached on the basis of contact---but who knows, i could be wrong and he is one of those folk who travels in circles that do not include many folk who smoke and those that do are typically as he says. but if there's such wide variation in experience and information, even in this thread, it stands to reason that your position is particular, tim, a function of the social networks you've moved through and move through, and that's as far as it goes. but what i really don't understand is: on what possible basis can altered states of consciousness be understood as necessarily a bad thing? and what exactly is a non-altered state? the more i think about it, the more problematic that becomes--i'm not sure it makes any sense at all. |
I think pot should not be illegal but don't expect to make much money through taxation. The stuff is too easy to grow and it will be grown everywhere and be very cheap.
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IIRC, we spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $77,000,000,000 a year on the drug war (law enforcement, judicial, prison, and the theoretical lost profits on taxes). Even if you are ill-informed enough to think the prohibition keeps people safe, I can't imagine someone justifying lost monies of $77b considering the $11t—and growing—deficit.
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Edit: it occurs to me that there was already an alcohol infrastructure before prohibition, whereas there has been none for drugs like marijuana for quite a long time, but even with this hitch I think my argument stands. |
Hemp as a textile? I'm down with that.
Medical applications of THC? I'm down with that. Recreational use of marijuana? Couldn't care less. I gave up smoking weed a decade ago. I just grew out of it. In my experience (and ONLY in my experience), people who smoke are generally, but not always, dullards. I have yet to meet anyone who is more "creative" or "enlightened" because of their use of marijuana; if anything, the "talent" that they feel is accentuated by their use of marijuana is crap. Best use of pot? If I wanted to keep a population docile and obedient, I'd keep them high. I still have friends who smoke, and it doesn't bother me. They're free to do whatever they want; I don't respect them any less. After all, I still have a couple of drinks a month, never to the point of intoxication anymore, but an occasional bourbon or Guinness. But I don't really care if marijuana is ever legalized. |
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I believe that many involved in the so called "war on drugs" are against legalization because they perceive a loss of jobs and/or enforcement money. As you pointed out, there should be quite a bit of savings there. |
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timalkin, your argument is that people will endanger you if they are impaired on marijuana or otherwise. That is not a valid argument because a person can endanger you at anytime and for any reason. The only way to protect yourself from that is to live in an isolated area. People who are irresponsible will be irresponsible in any given situation. Therefore, your argument is moot. |
Heck just tax and legalize it. The "war on drugs" failed two decades ago. While your at it do away with all the illegal search and seizures that this ridiculously long drawn out failed war has brought along with it.
I don't think the framers of the Constitution ever intended for morality to be legislated. |
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If anyone really thinks pot is harmless, they obviously aren't paying attention to Mexico right now. It's easy to justify using pot when it doesn't harm YOU by smoking it (which is still not an open/shut case, as inhaling any kind of smoke is harmful), but unless you grew that pot yourself or know who did, a great many people may have been "hurt" in order for you to get high.
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If pot were legal, people wouldn't kill people over pot. |
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No, that is not why it is illegal. Read up on your history.
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Seriously, your slippery slope argument is weak at best. By that logic, anything wrongfully made illegal should be left that way just because legalizing anything else could follow. |
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