PUB DISCUSSION It is all going to pot... - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

spectre · 03-28-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

I'm sure that a lack of alcohol availability had nothing to do with low levels of DWI.

I'm guessing sarcasm needs to be banned now too.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 04:51 PM

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Common sense dictates that greater availability of marijuana will lead to more incidents of driving while intoxicated on marijuana. Just how many DWIs do you think there were during Prohibition?

Interesting. Since this thread is more about the drug trade involved with marijuana's prohibition, I think you've made a great point. How many people were killed during Prohibition as a result of Prohibition itself? I think that's a more apt argument than the impaired driving argument.

I don't have the number of DWIs during prohibition, and luckily, since this is a pub discussion, as per the rules of the pub discussion, I don't have to research this. But for the sake of argument, I'm going to say 15,492.

spectre · 03-28-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Has anyone ever been impaired by chocolate?

After a few twix bars, I get a little nutty.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 04:59 PM

spectre · 03-28-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Unfortunately, law enforcement officers also get killed enforcing these laws, but that's the tough price we have to pay in order to protect society.

Yes, unnecessary deaths are always a good thing when something harmless is kept illegal.

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

I'm going to take an educated guess and say that most people killed during Prohibition were bootleggers, gangsters, corrupt politicians, and speak-easy patrons, i.e. criminals that I don't give a fuck about. Those people are the modern day version of drug dealers, drug runners, cartel members, and drug-users, i.e. criminals that I don't give a fuck about.

Unfortunately, law enforcement officers also get killed enforcing these laws, but that's the tough price we have to pay in order to protect society.

It wouldn't be a price we'd be paying at all if marijuana were legalized. Have you looked into the history of its prohibition? It's quite an interesting story and has absolutely nothing to do with its perceived dangers. It was criminalized in 1937, I believe. Imagine how long it existed as an entirely legal substance up to that point. I wonder what happened around that time.

Any idea?

Cynthetiq · 03-28-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Do we really need to legalize another thing that the sheep of the country can use to get high? What ever happened to the value of being a productive citizen and actually contributing something to the world instead of sitting around and getting stoned? It's a goddamned shame that young children grow up in drug-using households and have to witness the bullshit associated with their parents getting stoned. What kind of fucking example is that to set for your kids?

It's strange how many people who advocate for the legalization of marijuana also advocate for the banning of firearms. Pretty fucking ironic.

Really? So interesting, since George Washington was a hemp farmer and grew marijuana for his personal use. The same is said about Thomas Jefferson.

Authors William F. Buckley, Stephen King, and Carl Sagan can be added to that list.

Comedians Jon Stewart, George Carlin, Bill Maher, Jack Black, Rodney Dangerfield, Cheech Marin and Tommy Chong.

Not a single one of those persons was lazy or can be described by your stereotype.

As an ex pot smoker I did alot during my 20+ pot smoking years, never hurt a single individual and was always gainfully employed at a high salary.

legalize it already.

Willravel · 03-28-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

Distilling and making booze is much more difficult than growing pot. My grandfather (and father when he was a boy) made beer which helped them get through the depression during prohibition and it took quite a bit of work. From what those who grow pot tell me, it is very easy and requires little attention.

You're right, it's certainly more difficult. Still, individuals can't mass produce drugs like marijuana, cocaine, mushrooms, or acid. It is cheaper to mass produce and that leads to lower prices passed on to the consumer as well as quality control. My guess is that the same reason that factories won out during the industrial revolution would similarly lead to mass production winning out over the individual (for the most part) in this case.

Look at it this way: how many people grow their own food?

shesus · 03-28-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Are you seriously saying that driving impairment from drugs and alcohol is the same as driving with the sun in your eyes?

Once again, I don't really give a fuck what somebody does until they start affecting others. If somebody could smoke dope without harming somebody else, then go for it. Unfortunately, the vast majority of humanity is too goddamned self-centered and weak to only fuck themselves up. That's why the shit is illegal and will stay illegal.

Do you realize you amuse me so?

Again, you are saying the same words. So, let me rephrase my words. I'll break it down so it is easier for you to comprehend.

1) Driving impaired means be hindered in some way to drive safely. This can be because you are:

a) intoxicated by some substance
b) unable to see clearly
c) receiving oral sex
d) talking on a cell phone
e) engaged in any other behavior that lowers your driving ability

2) I understand that you don't want anyone to harm you out of their stupidity or irresponsibility. Many people feel the same way. However, the legalization of marijuana really has nothing to do with this. Why do I say this? Because:

a) People will harm you whether intoxicated or not
b) If people are irresponsible, they are irresponsible

3) This is a bit new, but I'm throwing it in anyway to add some spice to our interchange. Perhaps, you should be a bit open-minded about this...just a bit, let a little draft in. I am terrified of guns, but I respect that people enjoy guns and feel safer with them around so I would never fight to have them made illegal. Guns are dangerous and used irresponsibly they kill people. Alcohol is legal and enjoyed by many people. Not everyone who gets drunk kills people through negligence. The same would go for pot. But the choice should be available. Pot was made illegal in quite a bogus way. Not because it was dangerous to partake in, but because there was a group of people who had a financial interest in seeing it made illegal.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 05:24 PM

spectre · 03-28-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

I'm not willing to trade the lives of criminals for the lives of innocent people who are killed by stoned drivers.

I don't care why marijuana was banned in the 30s. It should have been banned long before that, except for medical use.

You do realize that studies have found that marijuana users are, in fact, either just as likely or less likely to be in accidents as non-impaired people, right? (Well, those credible studies that actually take into account when the person involved hasn't been well over the legal BAC level, anyway.)

The bigger threat is cell phone use while driving. More than 4,500 people die and more than 330,000 are seriously injured due to accidents caused by cell phones every year.

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew marijuana for medicinal purposes, which I support. George Washington did not sit around the fire with his command staff at the Battle of Yorktown to smoke a J and play X Box. Thomas Jefferson did not smoke a doobie to get inspiration to write the United States Constitution.

FYI: at that time, marijuana was grown for its industrial value as hemp and as a soil stabilizer. I think you need to at least run a quick google search from now on before blasting out whatever random "facts" pop into your head so you don't keep ruining your arguments by proving yourself to be consistently wrong.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 05:34 PM

shesus · 03-28-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectre

I think you need to at least run a quick google search from now on before blasting out whatever random "facts" pop into your head so you don't keep ruining your arguments by proving yourself to be consistently wrong.

Remember, one may leave the pub to do a bit of research. Just paraphrase it and bring it back in your own words. I'd hate for your papers to get sloppy at the bar. Someone will always be here to carry on the conversation. Everyone needs a breather from time to time.

Sorry, carry on with the previous topic of discussion.

spectre · 03-28-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Cell phone use and marijuana use are not good comparisons. Cell phones have a legitimate purpose. Non-medical marijuana use does not have a legitimate purpose.

What the fuck does purpose have to with this?

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 05:39 PM

Cynthetiq · 03-28-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

I'm not willing to trade the lives of criminals for the lives of innocent people who are killed by stoned drivers.

I don't care why marijuana was banned in the 30s. It should have been banned long before that, except for medical use.

---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew marijuana for medicinal purposes, which I support. George Washington did not sit around the fire with his command staff at the Battle of Yorktown to smoke a J and play X Box. Thomas Jefferson did not smoke a doobie to get inspiration to write the United States Constitution.

For every one successful marijuana user you can point to, I can point to a thousand more who are hopeless pieces of shit with no future and no ambition. Does marijuana use lead to a status as a piece of shit, or does a status as a piece of shit lead to marijuana use? Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Fuck if I know, but that's what I see.

How many times did you endanger the public by driving while high? How many harder drugs did you indulge in as a result of your marijuana experience? I hope you weren't in a position to care for the lives of others.

Would you rather fly on a plane piloted by a marijuana user or a non-marijuana user?

my how you leap to conclusions so quickly. No one said that.... you said that all smokers of pot are lazy. See how broad stroked generalizations work?

I NEVER drove high once. Never drove drunk either. So how many did I endanger? ZERO.

In fact, I moved to a city where I could stand on the street and wave my hand an a yellow vehicle stops and picks me up and whisks me home, safe and sound. I can't speak for the driver, he's usually an Arab, so maybe he's a terrorist, you know the kind that blew up the WTC and Pentagon.... Oooh scary!!!!

Yeah, I figured you say that about the founding fathers, take some time to read about them. Learn your history. Jefferson was a slave owner too you know.... oooooh bad man!!!!!

Learn about Lincolnd, it is written that he had a medical condition and he enjoyed smoking indian hemp.

---------- Post added at 09:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

When someone claims that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew marijuana, so we should all be allowed to grow marijuana, this implies that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew marijuana to get high.

Whether George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew marijuana for medicinal use or industrial use as hemp or as a soil stabilizer, they did not grow marijuana for recreational drug abuse.

I doubt that anyone making claims about Washington's or Jefferson's marijuana farming practices wants to grow marijuana for industrial use as hemp or as a soil stabilizer.

also, note that the law required that all land owners to grow hemp plants, X amount of plants per acre of land.

Take note during that time, land owners were the only people allowed to vote.

Gosh Golly!!!! Stoned voters!!!!

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 05:43 PM

spectre · 03-28-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

If you show me that recreational marijuana use has a beneficial purpose, I will be open-minded enough to engage in a balancing analysis to determine if it should be legalized.

If recreational marijuana use has a legitimate beneficial purpose, I might be able to overlook any detrimental effects of legalization.

The wonderful thing about living in a supposedly free country is that you don't have to prove that something isn't dangerous to legalize it, you have prove it is harmful to ban it.

shesus · 03-28-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

If you show me that recreational marijuana use has a beneficial purpose, I will be open-minded enough to engage in a balancing analysis to determine if it should be legalized.

If recreational marijuana use has a legitimate beneficial purpose, I might be able to overlook any detrimental effects of legalization.

So, pray tell, in your daily routines is everything that you do beneficial?

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 05:49 PM

noodle · 03-28-2009, 05:57 PM

Did anyone else have the thought that there might have been fewer DWIs during intoxication because perhaps there were fewer vehicles at that time than there are now?

Just curious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Cigarettes don't impair the functioning of a human brain or body.

Just FYI, if you haven't had one for awhile, a cigarette can make you majorly lightheaded and almost cause blackouts. I used to get vertigo if I tried a red (I smoked ultra lights) and more than once had to sit down or stop what I was doing for several minutes. I knew better than to do it while driving. Nicotine rushes are unpleasant and did impact the functioning of my brain on a frequent basis. And I do know that I'm not the only one.

I'm curious... How do you, TFP, define "Medical Usage" or "Medical Purposes"?
Does that include mental health? Because I know plenty of people with severe anxiety disorders, clinical depression and several other clinical diagnoses that use marijuana for treatment, despite the lack of prescription. For them, it worked better than being on numerous other psychotropic medications and they were a heck of a lot more functional after smoking pot than ingesting a xanax.
Most people agree that Marinol is doing wonders for chemo patients... but few realize that if you take more than the required dose, you can still get stoned. I'm taking the word of several teenage patients with Osteosarcoma who admitted to smoking weed prior to the rx of Marinol. So I can only go by their word. But, they still swear to it. And you can tell.

Well, I'm for legalization. In all forms and for all reasons, actually. There will always be people that abuse anything... we have to buy cold medicine from the pharmacist now and I got carded for buying spraypaint and rubber cement. Someone will always be stupid and do something under the influence of something that will make people gasp in horror and want to do away with that Thing. But it's a hell of a lot cheaper to legalize it if you look at decreasing amounts of insurance payouts for drugs of all kinds, decreasing the DEA salaries and war on drugs funding like several people noted, and decreasing the number of people that are taking up space in the jails and on probation lists for having just enough to qualify for "intent to sell."
Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody gather 'round, try to love one another right now...

Cynthetiq · 03-28-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

If you refer to my post on the first page, I specifically stated "Everyone that I've ever known that smoked pot were lazy, directionless, had no ambition, and were pieces of shit in general."

I'm not sure how you read that I said ALL smokers of pot are lazy, but there's my direct quote to set the record straight.

Congratulations on being a responsible marijuana abuser. If you could only teach the rest of the abusers out there how to be responsible, I'd be on your side of the fence.

When you say that the ones that you know, and then generalize it to the general population, you are in effect saying EVERYONE.

silent_jay · 03-28-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

For every one successful marijuana user you can point to, I can point to a thousand more who are hopeless pieces of shit with no future and no ambition. Does marijuana use lead to a status as a piece of shit, or does a status as a piece of shit lead to marijuana use? Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Fuck if I know, but that's what I see.

You really need to find a better class of person to hang out with, I mean seriously, take a look at your friends, if you know that many pieces of shit.

As for this discussion, that's about all I have to say to you on this subject, kind of hard to have a discussion when only one side is willing to listen, and judging from your posts in this thread, you're not willing.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 06:38 PM

little_tippler · 03-28-2009, 06:47 PM

I am for legalization in some ways, then not in others.

I agree that some people may benefit from its use - for medical reasons. I also think that others will not benefit from it at all, on the contrary. I know plenty of people who are depressed and in a rut and the pot smoking doesn't help - it seems to make them more indulgent in their misery at times. Sure, some people smoke it and are fine.

One of my main reservations is that in teens, marijuana seems like a good way to come into contact with other, harder drugs. This doesn't mean that because they smoke pot, they will take other drugs. But it does increase the risk somewhat.

I have never smoked pot so I can't really say much on this topic. My 2 cents.

silent_jay · 03-28-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

One of my main reservations is that in teens, marijuana seems like a good way to come into contact with other, harder drugs. This doesn't mean that because they smoke pot, they will take other drugs. But it does increase the risk somewhat.

This made me chuckle, they'll come in contact with harder drugs, but they won't take them because they smoke pot, but it increases the risk they will take them........now that's what I call riding the fence on the gateway drug argument.

spectre · 03-28-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little_tippler

One of my main reservations is that in teens, marijuana seems like a good way to come into contact with other, harder drugs. This doesn't mean that because they smoke pot, they will take other drugs. But it does increase the risk somewhat.

The gateway drug stuff only happens because the people selling the drugs are drug dealers who sell things like cocaine etc. If people aren't forced to go to a drug dealing looking to push something more hardcore and addictive, then they are less likely to move on to the hardcore drugs.

shesus · 03-28-2009, 07:04 PM

The gateway drug argument is an interesting one. Also the argument of peer pressure. Obviously, peer pressure exists as well as people who take a wide array of drugs, but putting all the blame on pot is another argument to cause fear.

When I was a teen, I was around pot for a few months before I actually smoked it. It was never pushed onto me and my friends were cool with the fact that I didn't partake. I started to smoke pot because i was curious about it and felt that I was ready. There was never any pressure though.

When I smoked pot, I never had an opportunity to partake in cocaine or heroin, I never saw those drugs. There was acid available, but I was actually told that I couldn't take it. Go figure out that one. People who take drugs who actually care about other people's well-being?

Frosstbyte · 03-28-2009, 07:05 PM

I'm for the legalization of all drugs. Decrease crime. Clear out prisons. Increase tax venue. I'm an extremist on it, and I'm ok with that. Punish people (and severely) who make bad choices when they use drugs. People can make their own choices about what they do to themselves. Legalizing it puts money back into the system, gives some level of quality control and allows people who have their drugs stolen to have legal recourse instead of going and shooting everyone.

People, writ large, don't agree with that, but whatever.

Pot, in particular, is less physically harmful than tobacco and alcohol and has a less severe psychological impact that being drunk. It's illegal because of simple racism. People seriously were worried that migrant workers would smoke it and wouldn't do work if they could and/or that native americans and blacks would smoke it and come assault nice white families. There are records on the books of numerous states to back that fact up. The ad campaigns against weed are just hilarious in their gross levels of misinformation.

Your arguments against legalizing marijuana, timalkin, are, frankly, dated and inconsistent. If you want to have an irrational fear of the drug, that's fine. Don't impose it on the rest of us.

biznatch · 03-28-2009, 07:21 PM

I think it's called a gateway drug because people inclined to do "hard drugs" often start with MJ because it's much more available.
I've smoked pot for years, and haven't tried anything harder; To be honest, I know many people that smoke pot and are doing just fine, getting up in the morning, working many hours, preparing a successful career. As for myself, I wouldn't call myself successful, or happy with where I am in life, and might even be what tim refers to as an aimless, lazy asshole, or whatever, but it's not because of marijuana.

I've actually made a few important realizations about my life while on pot, which has helped me shift some things around for the better.
I think it's because it opens up the thought process a bit, and there can be more that comes up from the subconscious part of the mind, because thoughts seem to flow more uninhibited and uninterrupted while high. If I could describe my experience, it'd be like a monologue in your head, with some thoughts that are interesting, and some that are stupid (since the "filters" seem to be less present somehow). I realize how "typical stoner"-ish this last paragraph might sound, but you wouldn't really know if you haven't tried.
And just FYI, I'd never drive while high.

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

I'm for the legalization of all drugs. Decrease crime. Clear out prisons. Increase tax venue. I'm an extremist on it, and I'm ok with that. Punish people (and severely) who make bad choices when they use drugs. People can make their own choices about what they do to themselves. Legalizing it puts money back into the system, gives some level of quality control and allows people who have their drugs stolen to have legal recourse instead of going and shooting everyone.

People, writ large, don't agree with that, but whatever.

Pot, in particular, is less physically harmful than tobacco and alcohol and has a less severe psychological impact that being drunk. It's illegal because of simple racism. People seriously were worried that migrant workers would smoke it and wouldn't do work if they could and/or that native americans and blacks would smoke it and come assault nice white families. There are records on the books of numerous states to back that fact up. The ad campaigns against weed are just hilarious in their gross levels of misinformation.

Your arguments against legalizing marijuana, timalkin, are, frankly, dated and inconsistent. If you want to have an irrational fear of the drug, that's fine. Don't impose it on the rest of us.

They had a huge ally in William Randolph Hearst who was more than happy to run fabricated stories of black men raping white women while crazed-out on this drug called Marijuana (back then, most people referred to it as cannabis. The Spanish name Marijuana hadn't caught on and wasn't widely known to be synonymous with cannabis).

But, why let a little truth get in the way of hyperbole and fear-mongering when it's so obvious that the idea that some people might actually enjoy getting high is reason enough to keep it illegal.

Derwood · 03-28-2009, 08:51 PM

Is there a country with a similar government system to ours that has fully legalized drugs? I'm curious how they deal with it.

And as for my earlier comment (about pot not being harmless due to cartels)....yes, I know it's because it's illegal. I'm not a moron. My point was that for the past 20 years, most people I know who argued vehemently for pot always used the "pot is harmless" argument, and I'm just saying that under the current set of laws, it isn't.

spectre · 03-28-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

Is there a country with a similar government system to ours that has fully legalized drugs? I'm curious how they deal with it.

And as for my earlier comment (about pot not being harmless due to cartels)....yes, I know it's because it's illegal. I'm not a moron. My point was that for the past 20 years, most people I know who argued vehemently for pot always used the "pot is harmless" argument, and I'm just saying that under the current set of laws, it isn't.

Exactly. Legalize it and it will be harmless. And going based on the numbers in the Netherlands, their crime rate across the board is much lower in the world rankings than the US.

roachboy · 03-28-2009, 09:17 PM

milk is a gateway drug. most junkies have had it.

and i think when chocolate first arrived in europe, like 16-17th century, people were getting fucked up drinking it.
look what happened to them.
just saying.

Cynthetiq · 03-28-2009, 09:19 PM

I was going to say that beer/wine was the gateway drug, from there it leads to scotch, vodka, rum, tequila, gin, whiskey, rye.....

shesus · 03-28-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I was going to say that beer/wine was the gateway drug, from there it leads to scotch, vodka, rum, tequila, gin, whiskey, rye.....

However, those are made from grains, so would it be fair to say that breads are gateway drug? Of course, wine is made from grapes. Those brown bag lunches with peanut butter and grape jelly sandwiches are starting off elementary kids into the land of booze.

roachboy · 03-28-2009, 09:28 PM

i maintain that it has to be milk that leads our youth astray, introducing by way of it's icky white viscousness them to temptations that lead straight down the pathway to perdition.

filtherton · 03-28-2009, 09:31 PM

I blame cellular respiration, specifically the Krebs Cycle, for acting as a facilitator of all substance abuse.

03-28-2009, 04:49 PM	#41 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:30 PM..

03-28-2009, 04:51 PM	#43 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 04:59 PM	#46 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 05:24 PM	#52 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 05:34 PM	#54 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 05:39 PM	#57 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 05:43 PM	#59 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 05:49 PM	#62 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 06:38 PM	#66 (permalink)
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03-28-2009, 06:47 PM	#67 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	I am for legalization in some ways, then not in others. I agree that some people may benefit from its use - for medical reasons. I also think that others will not benefit from it at all, on the contrary. I know plenty of people who are depressed and in a rut and the pot smoking doesn't help - it seems to make them more indulgent in their misery at times. Sure, some people smoke it and are fine. One of my main reservations is that in teens, marijuana seems like a good way to come into contact with other, harder drugs. This doesn't mean that because they smoke pot, they will take other drugs. But it does increase the risk somewhat. I have never smoked pot so I can't really say much on this topic. My 2 cents. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

03-28-2009, 07:04 PM	#70 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	The gateway drug argument is an interesting one. Also the argument of peer pressure. Obviously, peer pressure exists as well as people who take a wide array of drugs, but putting all the blame on pot is another argument to cause fear. When I was a teen, I was around pot for a few months before I actually smoked it. It was never pushed onto me and my friends were cool with the fact that I didn't partake. I started to smoke pot because i was curious about it and felt that I was ready. There was never any pressure though. When I smoked pot, I never had an opportunity to partake in cocaine or heroin, I never saw those drugs. There was acid available, but I was actually told that I couldn't take it. Go figure out that one. People who take drugs who actually care about other people's well-being? __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

03-28-2009, 07:05 PM	#71 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	I'm for the legalization of all drugs. Decrease crime. Clear out prisons. Increase tax venue. I'm an extremist on it, and I'm ok with that. Punish people (and severely) who make bad choices when they use drugs. People can make their own choices about what they do to themselves. Legalizing it puts money back into the system, gives some level of quality control and allows people who have their drugs stolen to have legal recourse instead of going and shooting everyone. People, writ large, don't agree with that, but whatever. Pot, in particular, is less physically harmful than tobacco and alcohol and has a less severe psychological impact that being drunk. It's illegal because of simple racism. People seriously were worried that migrant workers would smoke it and wouldn't do work if they could and/or that native americans and blacks would smoke it and come assault nice white families. There are records on the books of numerous states to back that fact up. The ad campaigns against weed are just hilarious in their gross levels of misinformation. Your arguments against legalizing marijuana, timalkin, are, frankly, dated and inconsistent. If you want to have an irrational fear of the drug, that's fine. Don't impose it on the rest of us.

03-28-2009, 07:21 PM	#72 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	I think it's called a gateway drug because people inclined to do "hard drugs" often start with MJ because it's much more available. I've smoked pot for years, and haven't tried anything harder; To be honest, I know many people that smoke pot and are doing just fine, getting up in the morning, working many hours, preparing a successful career. As for myself, I wouldn't call myself successful, or happy with where I am in life, and might even be what tim refers to as an aimless, lazy asshole, or whatever, but it's not because of marijuana. I've actually made a few important realizations about my life while on pot, which has helped me shift some things around for the better. I think it's because it opens up the thought process a bit, and there can be more that comes up from the subconscious part of the mind, because thoughts seem to flow more uninhibited and uninterrupted while high. If I could describe my experience, it'd be like a monologue in your head, with some thoughts that are interesting, and some that are stupid (since the "filters" seem to be less present somehow). I realize how "typical stoner"-ish this last paragraph might sound, but you wouldn't really know if you haven't tried. And just FYI, I'd never drive while high. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

03-28-2009, 08:51 PM	#74 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Is there a country with a similar government system to ours that has fully legalized drugs? I'm curious how they deal with it. And as for my earlier comment (about pot not being harmless due to cartels)....yes, I know it's because it's illegal. I'm not a moron. My point was that for the past 20 years, most people I know who argued vehemently for pot always used the "pot is harmless" argument, and I'm just saying that under the current set of laws, it isn't.

03-28-2009, 09:17 PM	#76 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	milk is a gateway drug. most junkies have had it. and i think when chocolate first arrived in europe, like 16-17th century, people were getting fucked up drinking it. look what happened to them. just saying. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

03-28-2009, 09:19 PM	#77 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I was going to say that beer/wine was the gateway drug, from there it leads to scotch, vodka, rum, tequila, gin, whiskey, rye..... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

03-28-2009, 09:28 PM	#79 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i maintain that it has to be milk that leads our youth astray, introducing by way of it's icky white viscousness them to temptations that lead straight down the pathway to perdition. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

03-28-2009, 09:31 PM	#80 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I blame cellular respiration, specifically the Krebs Cycle, for acting as a facilitator of all substance abuse.