PUB DISCUSSION It is all going to pot... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

shesus · 03-28-2009, 10:17 AM

but here is one solution.

With the failing newspaper industry, I think that pot can be made legal once more. One of the main supporters, William Randolf Hearst, had invested in the timber industry and didn't want to lose money by hemp being the main paper source because of it's quick growing time which lowered the price. So he ran slanted stories in his newspaper playing on people's fears of reefer-madness killing sprees and what else but those pesky, dangerous Mexicans.

People are still terrified of Mexicans, especially with the current drug cartel situation. Ironically, this is coming to front as the medical marijuana arguments are continuing.

I think that making pot legal would help our economy through the taxation, lower the crime, and aid the failing print media by lowering the cost of production. It would also create jobs. It could hurt pharmaceutical companies, but they screw enough people so what goes around comes around. Plus, some people take things way too seriously and need to light up and lighten up.

I don't understand the reason it is still illegal except that there are big money players fighting to keep it illegal so they can keep their riches, especially in this economy, and they are playing on old fears that people still have.

Enlighten me with you thoughts. Or your alternative way of helping out the country while it flailing about with no straight plan except throwing around more money and talking points.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 10:49 AM

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 11:00 AM

What the hell does this have to do with firearms?

Did I miss where this discussion was about banning firearms?

Willravel · 03-28-2009, 11:08 AM

The drug war is incredibly profitable. It's an industry. Until that industry can be overthrown, marijuana (and by extension, for no reason, hemp) will be illegal.

You overthrow the industry by getting legalization on ballots and making sure people are informed.

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

The drug war is incredibly profitable. It's an industry. Until that industry can be overthrown, marijuana (and by extension, for no reason, hemp) will be illegal.

You overthrow the industry by getting legalization on ballots and making sure people are informed.

What happens when the government just ignores the will (get it? will?) of the people, as in California?

Willravel · 03-28-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

What happens when the government just ignores the will (get it? will?) of the people, as in California?

You mean if.

If the federal government chooses to deny the will of Californians, they could end up alienating both liberals and conservatives. Conservatives may not agree on marijuana, but they are together on states vs. federal government. Now that they can't unite under a "GOP persona", like Bush, there's a better chance they'll be desperately adhering to their principles and ideologies. Like small government.

snowy · 03-28-2009, 11:22 AM

Some of us are perfectly capable of using marijuana while still being productive citizens. Some are not. I imagine some people are just not capable of being productive citizens period, so I don't see what an individual's productivity has to do with marijuana use, especially when medical use of marijuana allows patients who use it to remain more productive than they otherwise might be--whatever "productive" means.

I'd love to see it legalized. I think it could be a huge source of revenue for state governments. I think it would reduce the number of non-violent offenders entering our legal system, where they often get tossed in with violent offenders. I think it would keep us from wasting money on a drug war we never had a chance to win. I think it would reduce crime by allowing people to purchase their marijuana from somewhere besides these Mexican drug cartels.

As for those who would claim a black market would pop up if it were legalized, I doubt it. Most everyone I've talked to who enjoys the MJ would prefer to get it through legal means. It would be less of a pain in the ass. Prices would also probably drop, even if it were heavily taxed, as growers, middlemen, and dealers inflate prices. As for legalization/ease of access increasing use, I doubt that too. It's pretty prevalent in our society already, especially where I live. I would prefer that it be out in the open.

ASU2003 · 03-28-2009, 11:29 AM

Make it legal for people who pay over $10,000/year in taxes. They can grow their own, or get it from approved government controled farms/consfications by police. Make rules saying they can't drive while high or have more than 5 people gathered to smoke. New parents would be banned from smoking, and leave it up to the states to choose if they want to legalize it in their state (and follow the federal rules). And make sure to tax it appropriatly.

And shut down those pot stores. Medical pot should be made by registered labs and FDA approved, and sold through the pharmacy network to people who really need it in a small quantities for personal use.

filtherton · 03-28-2009, 11:37 AM

I think timalkin is confused about correlations between smoking marijuana and being a productive member of society (whatever that means).

Attitudes like his are partly the reason it's still illegal.

I hope it does get legalized, not only because it makes sense to legalize it, but also because I find the massive amount of self righteous sophistry that generally dominates both sides of the discussion (not in this thread) to be obnoxious.

Glory's Sun · 03-28-2009, 11:46 AM

First off, I'm glad to see the pub discussions back!

Second, maybe it would help if more states were as easy going as Oregon. I mean it's easy to get medicinal marijuana there, as well as legal (snowy can elaborate) as long as it's a personal amount. I mean wtf is pot really hurting? There are already laws against driving while high..and the war on drugs is one big conspiracy. The government should take a more transparent stance and allow at least marijuana to be legal under certain conditions.

I kinda like how Bill Hicks puts it

Quote:

Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit... unnatural? You know what I mean? It's nature. How do you make nature against the fucking law?

Quote:

I used to do drugs, but I'll tell you something honestly about drugs, honestly, and I know it's not a very popular idea, you don't hear it very often anymore, but it is the truth: I had a great time doing drugs. Sorry. Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never beat anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house, a wife or kids, laughed my ass off, and went about my day.

shesus · 03-28-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU2003

Make it legal for people who pay over $10,000/year in taxes. They can grow their own, or get it from approved government controled farms/consfications by police. Make rules saying they can't drive while high or have more than 5 people gathered to smoke. New parents would be banned from smoking, and leave it up to the states to choose if they want to legalize it in their state (and follow the federal rules). And make sure to tax it appropriatly.

And shut down those pot stores. Medical pot should be made by registered labs and FDA approved, and sold through the pharmacy network to people who really need it in a small quantities for personal use.

How would it be controlled to people who only pay $10,000/year in taxes? I think the people who make the least amount the money should get pleasures in life such as intoxicating products. It makes the idea that their life is shitty less prominent. That's why there is the saying 'you have a tear in your beer'. Now there would be a high in your low.

Also, why no more than 5 people congregated to smoke? Elaborate please...

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 12:56 PM

cdwonderful · 03-28-2009, 01:11 PM

God grows Grass. Man distills liquor
Who do you trust?

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

People ingest marijuana precisely because it causes intoxication, i.e. impairment. Everyone that I've ever known that smoked pot were lazy, directionless, had no ambition, and were pieces of shit in general. Not exactly productive people. I don't think the U.S. government should encourage such activity by making marijuana legal.

I have no problem with drugs being used for medicinal purposes. I do have a problem with drugs being used for recreational purposes. I don't mind the recreational part so much if it only affects the person doing it.

Example: Want to smoke a cigarette? Go right ahead, as long as I don't have to smell that disgusting shit. Parents shouldn't be allowed to smoke around children or animals either, because then the smoker is affecting others around them. Tax the fuck out of cigarettes to offset the future healthcare costs that are sure to follow when dipshit smokers get cancer.

Want to drink alcohol or smoke pot? Go right ahead, but if you drive or otherwise put someone in danger you should have your fucking head removed from your body with a rusty butterknife. I can't think of a more selfish thing than to kill somebody because you wanted to "get a little high."

Unfortunately, most people are too fucking stupid to refrain from driving intoxicated or doing anything else that puts other people in danger. Why should I have to die because you wanted to ingest some fucking chemicals to have fun? Drug abuse, no matter what particular substance is being abused, causes way more death, destruction, and loss of productivity than any benefit it creates. Fuck no to legalization.

Just exactly how many times have you died because someone else smoked pot?

SecretMethod70 · 03-28-2009, 01:28 PM

timalkin: would it be fair to say that you are also for the prohibition of alcohol then, since so many people die each year due to drunk drivers? And what about second-hand smoke? Sounds like you might be for the prohibition of cigarettes as well.

mixedmedia · 03-28-2009, 01:32 PM

jesus, timalkin. and I thought I had a sour outlook on humanity.

I support the legalization of marijuana for all of the reasons that snowy accounted for up there.

I also take exception with the idea that pot 'makes' people anything. Maybe you just know too many lazy, directionless pieces of shit in general.

cdwonderful · 03-28-2009, 01:39 PM

trans fats cause so many heart attacks, and some of those people are driving.
Perhaps the fast food should be prohibited as well?

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

jesus, timalkin. and I thought I had a sour outlook on humanity.
.

coming from mixedmedia, that is really saying something........ wow

powerclown · 03-28-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

God grows Grass. Man distills liquor
Who do you trust?

Neither. God also grows hemlock and poisonous mushrooms.

cdwonderful · 03-28-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerclown

Neither. God also grows hemlock and poisonous mushrooms.

neither I can accept....

spectre · 03-28-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

People ingest marijuana precisely because it causes intoxication, i.e. impairment. Everyone that I've ever known that smoked pot were lazy, directionless, had no ambition, and were pieces of shit in general. Not exactly productive people. I don't think the U.S. government should encourage such activity by making marijuana legal.

I have no problem with drugs being used for medicinal purposes. I do have a problem with drugs being used for recreational purposes. I don't mind the recreational part so much if it only affects the person doing it.

Example: Want to smoke a cigarette? Go right ahead, as long as I don't have to smell that disgusting shit. Parents shouldn't be allowed to smoke around children or animals either, because then the smoker is affecting others around them. Tax the fuck out of cigarettes to offset the future healthcare costs that are sure to follow when dipshit smokers get cancer.

Want to drink alcohol or smoke pot? Go right ahead, but if you drive or otherwise put someone in danger you should have your fucking head removed from your body with a rusty butterknife. I can't think of a more selfish thing than to kill somebody because you wanted to "get a little high."

Unfortunately, most people are too fucking stupid to refrain from driving intoxicated or doing anything else that puts other people in danger. Why should I have to die because you wanted to ingest some fucking chemicals to have fun? Drug abuse, no matter what particular substance is being abused, causes way more death, destruction, and loss of productivity than any benefit it creates. Fuck no to legalization.

So you're against caffeine, alcohol, and chocolate? All of those have intoxicating effects so they should be outlawed too, right?

I know a lot of people who don't use pot and are lazy, directionless, no ambition pieces of shit.

I think the criminalization of pot is idiotic. The amount of tax revenue that comes in, not to mention the reduction in crime and the ability to help damage the cartels that are dependent on that revenue. Right now, lawmakers outlaw pot as a treatment for people who desperately need the relief pot would give them, but cannot. At the same time, opiates such as morphine are routinely prescribed, and rightly so. I just don't understand why pot is so demonized.

Note: This comes from someone that has never even tried pot.

shesus · 03-28-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

People ingest marijuana precisely because it causes intoxication, i.e. impairment. Everyone that I've ever known that smoked pot were lazy, directionless, had no ambition, and were pieces of shit in general. Not exactly productive people. I don't think the U.S. government should encourage such activity by making marijuana legal.

From your stand on this, I can't imagine that you were friends with anyone who ever ingested pot. Therefore, I'm not sure where you are getting your opinions from. They are quite stereotypical.

I think that you're arguments are quite a slippery slope. Anything can kill everyone. In fact, junk food clogs arteries and causes many health problems. So, perhaps, junk food needs be overly taxed to off-set health-care costs.

In fact, driving without sunglasses when the sun is out can abstract the driver's vision and I could get run over. Make that illegal, dammit.

Now that I think about it, don't people get an adrenaline rush from shooting a gun. And those things can *really* kill people. Yup, you're right. Since we're working with stereotypes here, I'll respond to your original reply.

I am one of those people that would rather have lazy, directionless, no ambition piece of shit around rather than an irate, intolerant, paranoid gun-toter.

SecretMethod70 · 03-28-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectre

Note: This comes from someone that has never even tried pot.

Same here, and I too am for the legalization of marijuana. For one thing, I can't in good conscience believe in a different set of rules for marijuana and alcohol when, at best, alcohol is just as bad, and in reality is probably worse. And then, of course, there are all the other reasons stated in this thread.

timalkin: There are a lot of pieces of shit who smoke marijuana. And a lot of pieces of shit who don't. There are productive members of society who abstain, and productive members of society who partake. One of the greatest astronomers and public educators of modern times - Carl Sagan - was a frequent user of marijuana and even an advocate for its legalization. In fact, his wife serves on the Board of Directors of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 02:52 PM

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

I have died exactly zero times because somebody else smoked pot.

How many people have I seen people die from impaired driving? Too many. That shit isn't a joke..

Great, we agree that driving impaired is wrong. What the hell does that have to do with the legalization of pot?

roachboy · 03-28-2009, 03:11 PM

yours is a surprising position timalkin: i figured you'd be more likely a consistent libertarian.

my basic position on this has already been summed up pretty well above.

what i guess is worth repeating is that i don't see where pot makes anyone anything insofar as basic tendencies or dispositions are concerned. i've known more people than i can count who've smoked: nothing in particular seems to be common to them. some are exceding direct, some aren't. some smoke once in a while, some do the wake-and-bake, but even within the latter group, i know a pretty wide range of folk. so if my experience is any guide, i think timalkin is trafficking in stereotypes more than conclusions reached on the basis of contact---but who knows, i could be wrong and he is one of those folk who travels in circles that do not include many folk who smoke and those that do are typically as he says. but if there's such wide variation in experience and information, even in this thread, it stands to reason that your position is particular, tim, a function of the social networks you've moved through and move through, and that's as far as it goes.

but what i really don't understand is: on what possible basis can altered states of consciousness be understood as necessarily a bad thing?
and what exactly is a non-altered state?
the more i think about it, the more problematic that becomes--i'm not sure it makes any sense at all.

flstf · 03-28-2009, 03:20 PM

I think pot should not be illegal but don't expect to make much money through taxation. The stuff is too easy to grow and it will be grown everywhere and be very cheap.

Willravel · 03-28-2009, 03:25 PM

IIRC, we spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $77,000,000,000 a year on the drug war (law enforcement, judicial, prison, and the theoretical lost profits on taxes). Even if you are ill-informed enough to think the prohibition keeps people safe, I can't imagine someone justifying lost monies of $77b considering the $11t—and growing—deficit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I think pot should not be illegal but don't expect to make much money through taxation. The stuff is too easy to grow and it will be grown everywhere and be very cheap.

I would imagine they said this about moonshine as prohibition was ending. What percentage of the alcohol market do you suppose is moonshine? .001%? .0001%?

Edit: it occurs to me that there was already an alcohol infrastructure before prohibition, whereas there has been none for drugs like marijuana for quite a long time, but even with this hitch I think my argument stands.

FuglyStick · 03-28-2009, 03:38 PM

Hemp as a textile? I'm down with that.
Medical applications of THC? I'm down with that.
Recreational use of marijuana? Couldn't care less.

I gave up smoking weed a decade ago. I just grew out of it. In my experience (and ONLY in my experience), people who smoke are generally, but not always, dullards. I have yet to meet anyone who is more "creative" or "enlightened" because of their use of marijuana; if anything, the "talent" that they feel is accentuated by their use of marijuana is crap.

Best use of pot? If I wanted to keep a population docile and obedient, I'd keep them high.

I still have friends who smoke, and it doesn't bother me. They're free to do whatever they want; I don't respect them any less. After all, I still have a couple of drinks a month, never to the point of intoxication anymore, but an occasional bourbon or Guinness. But I don't really care if marijuana is ever legalized.

flstf · 03-28-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

I would imagine they said this about moonshine as prohibition was ending. What percentage of the alcohol market do you suppose is moonshine? .001%? .0001%?

Edit: it occurs to me that there was already an alcohol infrastructure before prohibition, whereas there has been none for drugs like marijuana for quite a long time, but even with this hitch I think my argument stands.

Distilling and making booze is much more difficult than growing pot. My grandfather (and father when he was a boy) made beer which helped them get through the depression during prohibition and it took quite a bit of work. From what those who grow pot tell me, it is very easy and requires little attention.

I believe that many involved in the so called "war on drugs" are against legalization because they perceive a loss of jobs and/or enforcement money. As you pointed out, there should be quite a bit of savings there.

shesus · 03-28-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I think pot should not be illegal but don't expect to make much money through taxation. The stuff is too easy to grow and it will be grown everywhere and be very cheap.

I can see your point with that, but I counter with: Cooking is easy to do, but restaurants and microwave meals exist. People don't seem to be ambitious (impaired or not) to do things themselves when they can get it quickly without much effort. Sure, there would be people that would grow their own pot, just like there are people who make home-cooked meals, grow their own herbs and vegetable gardens, and brew their own beer. However, the need for the easy way will always be around. I think that the tax money would add up. The argument lies in the high probability that it will be used irresponsibly like the rest of it.

timalkin, your argument is that people will endanger you if they are impaired on marijuana or otherwise. That is not a valid argument because a person can endanger you at anytime and for any reason. The only way to protect yourself from that is to live in an isolated area. People who are irresponsible will be irresponsible in any given situation. Therefore, your argument is moot.

scout · 03-28-2009, 04:26 PM

Heck just tax and legalize it. The "war on drugs" failed two decades ago. While your at it do away with all the illegal search and seizures that this ridiculously long drawn out failed war has brought along with it.

I don't think the framers of the Constitution ever intended for morality to be legislated.

cdwonderful · 03-28-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

I don't think the framers of the Constitution ever intended for morality to be legislated.

maybe you are right hasn't put much of a dent in the hooker trade...

Derwood · 03-28-2009, 04:30 PM

If anyone really thinks pot is harmless, they obviously aren't paying attention to Mexico right now. It's easy to justify using pot when it doesn't harm YOU by smoking it (which is still not an open/shut case, as inhaling any kind of smoke is harmful), but unless you grew that pot yourself or know who did, a great many people may have been "hurt" in order for you to get high.

JumpinJesus · 03-28-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

If anyone really thinks pot is harmless, they obviously aren't paying attention to Mexico right now. It's easy to justify using pot when it doesn't harm YOU by smoking it (which is still not an open/shut case, as inhaling any kind of smoke is harmful), but unless you grew that pot yourself or know who did, a great many people may have been "hurt" in order for you to get high.

Pot doesn't kill people. People kill people.

If pot were legal, people wouldn't kill people over pot.

spectre · 03-28-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

If anyone really thinks pot is harmless, they obviously aren't paying attention to Mexico right now. It's easy to justify using pot when it doesn't harm YOU by smoking it (which is still not an open/shut case, as inhaling any kind of smoke is harmful), but unless you grew that pot yourself or know who did, a great many people may have been "hurt" in order for you to get high.

It's because it's illegal. It has nothing to do what pot does to you. It's entirely because it's profitable. If it's made legal, there's no reason for it to be brought in by criminals.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 04:44 PM

mixedmedia · 03-28-2009, 04:45 PM

No, that is not why it is illegal. Read up on your history.

spectre · 03-28-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Common sense dictates that greater availability of marijuana will lead to more incidents of driving while intoxicated on marijuana. Just how many DWIs do you think there were during Prohibition?

Relatively few due to most people staying indoors due to being scared shitless of being shot in the street by all of the mob wars over bootlegging.

timalkin · 03-28-2009, 04:46 PM

spectre · 03-28-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

What do you think the drug cartels would do if marijuana were legalized? They'd move on to some other drug, cocaine perhaps. But then we can argue over whether cocaine should be legalized. The slippery slope is a bitch to deal with.

So, taking your logic, we should ban anything that gives any sort of pleasure? No chocolate because of the effect of endorphines in the brain? Let the drug runners start a Nestle run?

Seriously, your slippery slope argument is weak at best. By that logic, anything wrongfully made illegal should be left that way just because legalizing anything else could follow.

03-28-2009, 10:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	It is all going to pot... but here is one solution. With the failing newspaper industry, I think that pot can be made legal once more. One of the main supporters, William Randolf Hearst, had invested in the timber industry and didn't want to lose money by hemp being the main paper source because of it's quick growing time which lowered the price. So he ran slanted stories in his newspaper playing on people's fears of reefer-madness killing sprees and what else but those pesky, dangerous Mexicans. People are still terrified of Mexicans, especially with the current drug cartel situation. Ironically, this is coming to front as the medical marijuana arguments are continuing. I think that making pot legal would help our economy through the taxation, lower the crime, and aid the failing print media by lowering the cost of production. It would also create jobs. It could hurt pharmaceutical companies, but they screw enough people so what goes around comes around. Plus, some people take things way too seriously and need to light up and lighten up. I don't understand the reason it is still illegal except that there are big money players fighting to keep it illegal so they can keep their riches, especially in this economy, and they are playing on old fears that people still have. Enlighten me with you thoughts. Or your alternative way of helping out the country while it flailing about with no straight plan except throwing around more money and talking points. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

03-28-2009, 10:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:34 PM..

03-28-2009, 11:00 AM	#3 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	What the hell does this have to do with firearms? Did I miss where this discussion was about banning firearms? __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

03-28-2009, 11:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Some of us are perfectly capable of using marijuana while still being productive citizens. Some are not. I imagine some people are just not capable of being productive citizens period, so I don't see what an individual's productivity has to do with marijuana use, especially when medical use of marijuana allows patients who use it to remain more productive than they otherwise might be--whatever "productive" means. I'd love to see it legalized. I think it could be a huge source of revenue for state governments. I think it would reduce the number of non-violent offenders entering our legal system, where they often get tossed in with violent offenders. I think it would keep us from wasting money on a drug war we never had a chance to win. I think it would reduce crime by allowing people to purchase their marijuana from somewhere besides these Mexican drug cartels. As for those who would claim a black market would pop up if it were legalized, I doubt it. Most everyone I've talked to who enjoys the MJ would prefer to get it through legal means. It would be less of a pain in the ass. Prices would also probably drop, even if it were heavily taxed, as growers, middlemen, and dealers inflate prices. As for legalization/ease of access increasing use, I doubt that too. It's pretty prevalent in our society already, especially where I live. I would prefer that it be out in the open. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

03-28-2009, 12:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:34 PM..

03-28-2009, 11:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	The drug war is incredibly profitable. It's an industry. Until that industry can be overthrown, marijuana (and by extension, for no reason, hemp) will be illegal. You overthrow the industry by getting legalization on ballots and making sure people are informed.

03-28-2009, 11:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Make it legal for people who pay over $10,000/year in taxes. They can grow their own, or get it from approved government controled farms/consfications by police. Make rules saying they can't drive while high or have more than 5 people gathered to smoke. New parents would be banned from smoking, and leave it up to the states to choose if they want to legalize it in their state (and follow the federal rules). And make sure to tax it appropriatly. And shut down those pot stores. Medical pot should be made by registered labs and FDA approved, and sold through the pharmacy network to people who really need it in a small quantities for personal use.

03-28-2009, 11:37 AM	#9 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think timalkin is confused about correlations between smoking marijuana and being a productive member of society (whatever that means). Attitudes like his are partly the reason it's still illegal. I hope it does get legalized, not only because it makes sense to legalize it, but also because I find the massive amount of self righteous sophistry that generally dominates both sides of the discussion (not in this thread) to be obnoxious.

03-28-2009, 01:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
cdwonderful another passenger Location: Youngstown, Ohio	God grows Grass. Man distills liquor Who do you trust? __________________ Never try to teach a pig to whistle it wastes your time, and annoys the pig.....

03-28-2009, 01:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	timalkin: would it be fair to say that you are also for the prohibition of alcohol then, since so many people die each year due to drunk drivers? And what about second-hand smoke? Sounds like you might be for the prohibition of cigarettes as well. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

03-28-2009, 01:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	jesus, timalkin. and I thought I had a sour outlook on humanity. I support the legalization of marijuana for all of the reasons that snowy accounted for up there. I also take exception with the idea that pot 'makes' people anything. Maybe you just know too many lazy, directionless pieces of shit in general. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

03-28-2009, 02:52 PM	#23 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:33 PM..

03-28-2009, 03:11 PM	#25 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	yours is a surprising position timalkin: i figured you'd be more likely a consistent libertarian. my basic position on this has already been summed up pretty well above. what i guess is worth repeating is that i don't see where pot makes anyone anything insofar as basic tendencies or dispositions are concerned. i've known more people than i can count who've smoked: nothing in particular seems to be common to them. some are exceding direct, some aren't. some smoke once in a while, some do the wake-and-bake, but even within the latter group, i know a pretty wide range of folk. so if my experience is any guide, i think timalkin is trafficking in stereotypes more than conclusions reached on the basis of contact---but who knows, i could be wrong and he is one of those folk who travels in circles that do not include many folk who smoke and those that do are typically as he says. but if there's such wide variation in experience and information, even in this thread, it stands to reason that your position is particular, tim, a function of the social networks you've moved through and move through, and that's as far as it goes. but what i really don't understand is: on what possible basis can altered states of consciousness be understood as necessarily a bad thing? and what exactly is a non-altered state? the more i think about it, the more problematic that becomes--i'm not sure it makes any sense at all. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

03-28-2009, 03:20 PM	#26 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I think pot should not be illegal but don't expect to make much money through taxation. The stuff is too easy to grow and it will be grown everywhere and be very cheap.

03-28-2009, 03:38 PM	#28 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	Hemp as a textile? I'm down with that. Medical applications of THC? I'm down with that. Recreational use of marijuana? Couldn't care less. I gave up smoking weed a decade ago. I just grew out of it. In my experience (and ONLY in my experience), people who smoke are generally, but not always, dullards. I have yet to meet anyone who is more "creative" or "enlightened" because of their use of marijuana; if anything, the "talent" that they feel is accentuated by their use of marijuana is crap. Best use of pot? If I wanted to keep a population docile and obedient, I'd keep them high. I still have friends who smoke, and it doesn't bother me. They're free to do whatever they want; I don't respect them any less. After all, I still have a couple of drinks a month, never to the point of intoxication anymore, but an occasional bourbon or Guinness. But I don't really care if marijuana is ever legalized. __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

03-28-2009, 04:26 PM	#31 (permalink)
scout Psycho	Heck just tax and legalize it. The "war on drugs" failed two decades ago. While your at it do away with all the illegal search and seizures that this ridiculously long drawn out failed war has brought along with it. I don't think the framers of the Constitution ever intended for morality to be legislated. __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson

03-28-2009, 04:30 PM	#33 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	If anyone really thinks pot is harmless, they obviously aren't paying attention to Mexico right now. It's easy to justify using pot when it doesn't harm YOU by smoking it (which is still not an open/shut case, as inhaling any kind of smoke is harmful), but unless you grew that pot yourself or know who did, a great many people may have been "hurt" in order for you to get high.

03-28-2009, 04:44 PM	#36 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:32 PM..

03-28-2009, 04:45 PM	#37 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	No, that is not why it is illegal. Read up on your history. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

03-28-2009, 04:46 PM	#39 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:31 PM..