And they said BUSH is an idiot! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Marvelous Marv · 03-27-2009, 08:23 AM

Which of course, has no bearing on how stupid our current "community organizer" is.

Official: Mexico not in danger of collapse

Quote:

Official: Mexico not in danger of collapse

(Unrelated comments on Mexico removed for brevity)

During his news conference, Blair also said the Obama administration is still wrestling with what to do with the remaining 240 detainees at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, which the president has ordered closed.

Some of the detainees, deemed non-threatening, may be released into the United States as free men, Blair confirmed.

That would happen when they can't be returned to their home countries, because the governments either won't take them or the U.S. fears they will be abused or tortured. That is the case with 17 Uighers (WEE'-gurz), Chinese Muslim separatists who were cleared for release from the jail long ago. The U.S. can't find a country willing to take them, and it will not turn them over to China.

Blair said the former prisoners would have get some sort of assistance to start their new lives in the United States.

"We can't put them out on the street," he said.

Blair said the U.S. government is building dossiers on each of the prisoners at Guantanamo and is still developing the process that will determine what happens to them. Some may face criminal trials in the U.S. civilian courts and be imprisoned in U.S. jails. Others will be remanded to their home governments for continued jailing or potential rehabilitation.

The Pentagon claims more than 60 former Guantanamo inmates have been released by their home governments and are believed to be engaged in militant activities. It has not released a list of those former prisoners. Two of the top al-Qaida leaders in Yemen are former inmates, according to both al-Qaida and U.S. intelligence officials. And the Taliban's top operations officer in southern Afghanistan was released from Guantanamo in 2007, according to U.S. intelligence and military officials.

On another matter, Blair said the United States will no longer waterboard prisoners_ a form of simulated drowning that was used against three alleged terrorists in 2002 and 2003. But other "enhanced interrogation techniques" are being considered for inclusion in the methods finally approved for use. He did not say what methods he would consider retaining. The CIA's enhanced interrogation program is classified. Blair is a key figure in the White House review of the CIA's interrogation program.

What a great idea: Release GITMO detainees in the US, and give them welfare? Feel free to volunteer your community to accept them if you support Obama.

Is anyone here willing to have new next-door neighbors?

dippin · 03-27-2009, 08:35 AM

Do you even know anything about the Uighers?

shakran · 03-27-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

Which of course, has no bearing on how stupid our current "community organizer" is.

Official: Mexico not in danger of collapse

What a great idea: Release GITMO detainees in the US, and give them welfare? Feel free to volunteer your community to accept them if you support Obama.

Is anyone here willing to have new next-door neighbors?

Sure. They've been deemed non-threatening. In other words, we captured them and held them prisoner for 7 years for absolutely no reason. I say we owe 'em something.

snowy · 03-27-2009, 08:46 AM

I'd be happy to have some Uighers for neighbors. I'm sure they would be better neighbors than some of the ones I have now. Like shakran, I think we owe them something. You can't just violate someone's human rights and expect to walk away, hands clean. There is always a price to pay.

Baraka_Guru · 03-27-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

What a great idea: Release GITMO detainees in the US, and give them welfare?

Although it likely isn't your intent, I actually agree with you here.

Quote:

Feel free to volunteer your community to accept them if you support Obama.

I would if we had some international agreement. There are already a number of non-Gitmo Uighers living here in Toronto.

Quote:

Is anyone here willing to have new next-door neighbors?

I live in one of the most diverse cities in the world, and arguably one of the best. There are American cities poised in the same way that would do well to greet these people. The world is getting smaller. Now is not the time to shut people out on arbitrary grounds.

The_Jazz · 03-27-2009, 09:02 AM

Marv, it's good to see you back among us. I've missed your particular brand of discussion; I hope you stick around.

I have Uigher neighbors, too, although I don't know them very well. Some of them have kids the same age as my oldest, and I've talked to them at the playground a few times. They seem like nice people. Then again, they weren't picked up while fighting in Afganistan or Iraq, either.

Really, I'm no more concerned about these guys relocating to my neighborhood than I am anyone who's been in prison for the past 7 years, rightfully or wrongly convicted. So, yes, I'd be concerned that any former prisoner is moving into my neighborhood, mainly from the unknown. That, I think, is the basis of your objection - the fear of the unknown. These guys may be a threat - they certainly look like they could be - but that doesn't make them dangerous. Do they need the system to actually succeed for them - jobs, housing near or with their countrymen, the chance to carve a life for themselves here - absolutely. But I don't think anyone's suggesting that no one should keep tabs on them, and I expect that the FBI will definitely keep a watchful eye on these guys for the foreseeable future.

dippin · 03-27-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Marv, it's good to see you back among us. I've missed your particular brand of discussion; I hope you stick around.

I have Uigher neighbors, too, although I don't know them very well. Some of them have kids the same age as my oldest, and I've talked to them at the playground a few times. They seem like nice people. Then again, they weren't picked up while fighting in Afganistan or Iraq, either.

They weren't picked up fighting. They were picked up crossing the border without authorization, which is what tends to happen one someone is trying to flee its home country because of religious persecution.

The_Jazz · 03-27-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippin

They weren't picked up fighting. They were picked up crossing the border without authorization, which is what tends to happen one someone is trying to flee its home country because of religious persecution.

Sorry, I forgot that part. It's not in the article, and I didn't remember that detail until I saw your post. Thanks for correcting me.

But my reasons still stand, regardless of the new point.

telekinetic · 03-27-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

What a great idea: Release GITMO detainees in the US, and give them welfare? Feel free to volunteer your community to accept them if you support Obama.

Is anyone here willing to have new next-door neighbors?

Absolutely! There's plenty of unoccupied housing and and a better-than-average job market here in Phoenix, I'd happily have some of my tax dollars go towards buying them a short sale house and keeping food on their table while they find employment. It's the least we could do for them after 7 years of Gitmo--does that part not honestly bother you at all?

filtherton · 03-27-2009, 09:32 AM

We should teach them how to commit mass murder and then send them to South America.

shakran · 03-27-2009, 09:41 AM

you're dating yourself there, filtherton. Now we know you're old like me

Sun Tzu · 03-27-2009, 09:44 AM

If they are non-threatening, and indeed we owe them something: they should be free right now- this moment. If any of them are presently in chains as you read this and it has been determined they are innocent, it kind of contradicts reasons for closing it doesnt it. There is a break down somewhere in this story. Does anyone know if there are detainees they know are going to be freed, because it sounds like plans are already being made.

dippin · 03-27-2009, 09:57 AM

Sun Tzu,
the reason they are not free right now is because legally they should be returned to China, since they dont have permission to stay anywhere else. But everyone knows what would happen to them if they were deported to China, so right now they are trying to either find a nation that would invite them, or finding legal reason to allow them to stay in the US.

pan6467 · 03-27-2009, 10:26 AM

If you are beaten down for 7 years by a country in their prison because first they accused you of being a terrorist against them (and you are innocent) and then they hold you in that prison because they do not know what to do with you..... how are you going to feel towards that country and aren't you going to have a little dislike for the people of that country?

This sounds like a very, very bad situation for which there is no true good answer for.

kutulu · 03-27-2009, 10:51 AM

These guys were cleared for release back in 2004.

Sun Tzu · 03-27-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippin

Sun Tzu,
the reason they are not free right now is because legally they should be returned to China, since they dont have permission to stay anywhere else. But everyone knows what would happen to them if they were deported to China, so right now they are trying to either find a nation that would invite them, or finding legal reason to allow them to stay in the US.

Thats really what I need to research more about. So there are prisoners there now that have actually been cleared, but they still have them in chains and in cells because of logistical reasons? They arent even putting them in a barracks type setting? Something doesnt sound right. I'm not stating what you said is incorrect, there has to be more to this.

dippin · 03-27-2009, 02:33 PM

If they are in chains or not I don't know. But they are still being held there, not really as "guests" either.

Willravel · 03-27-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Blair said the U.S. government is building dossiers on each of the prisoners at Guantanamo and is still developing the process that will determine what happens to them. Some may face criminal trials in the U.S. civilian courts and be imprisoned in U.S. jails. Others will be remanded to their home governments for continued jailing or potential rehabilitation.

That seems perfectly reasonable. We should have tried them based on evidence originally, but at least we're getting around to it.

Rekna · 03-28-2009, 01:47 PM

No we should shoot them in the head. I think we should start cracking down on crime more and we should imprison people, torture them, and then send to to other countries to be tortured and killed. I also think all of this should occur without a trial. I mean these guys are in gitmo they have to be guilty because they are in gitmo that's why they are in gitmo if they weren't terrorists then they wouldn't be in gitmo. So lets just shoot them in the head and save everyone the money while protecting our children.

reconmike · 04-03-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

No we should shoot them in the head. I think we should start cracking down on crime more and we should imprison people, torture them, and then send to to other countries to be tortured and killed. I also think all of this should occur without a trial. I mean these guys are in gitmo they have to be guilty because they are in gitmo that's why they are in gitmo if they weren't terrorists then they wouldn't be in gitmo. So lets just shoot them in the head and save everyone the money while protecting our children.

Not bad, but I would rather see them play some sort of hot potato game with frag grenades, or maybe soccer in a mine field, much more exciting than a gun shot wound to the head.

ratbastid · 04-03-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reconmike

Not bad, but I would rather see them play some sort of hot potato game with frag grenades, or maybe soccer in a mine field, much more exciting than a gun shot wound to the head.

You guys won't be laughing when Fox News televises it...

Actually, YOU might be, ya sick freaks.

hiredgun · 04-17-2009, 08:39 AM

You seem angry about the 'welfare' aspect, but think of the alternative: we capture and detain harmless prisoners for 7 years without trial, and then release them penniless onto the American streets, with no one to help them and no ability to fend for themselves here (cultural familiarity, business norms, language). That's not only morally reprehensible, but very stupid in a practical sense: we would almost guarantee that they turn to criminality, if not worse.

03-27-2009, 08:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I'd be happy to have some Uighers for neighbors. I'm sure they would be better neighbors than some of the ones I have now. Like shakran, I think we owe them something. You can't just violate someone's human rights and expect to walk away, hands clean. There is always a price to pay. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

03-27-2009, 09:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Marv, it's good to see you back among us. I've missed your particular brand of discussion; I hope you stick around. I have Uigher neighbors, too, although I don't know them very well. Some of them have kids the same age as my oldest, and I've talked to them at the playground a few times. They seem like nice people. Then again, they weren't picked up while fighting in Afganistan or Iraq, either. Really, I'm no more concerned about these guys relocating to my neighborhood than I am anyone who's been in prison for the past 7 years, rightfully or wrongly convicted. So, yes, I'd be concerned that any former prisoner is moving into my neighborhood, mainly from the unknown. That, I think, is the basis of your objection - the fear of the unknown. These guys may be a threat - they certainly look like they could be - but that doesn't make them dangerous. Do they need the system to actually succeed for them - jobs, housing near or with their countrymen, the chance to carve a life for themselves here - absolutely. But I don't think anyone's suggesting that no one should keep tabs on them, and I expect that the FBI will definitely keep a watchful eye on these guys for the foreseeable future. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-27-2009, 09:44 AM	#12 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	If they are non-threatening, and indeed we owe them something: they should be free right now- this moment. If any of them are presently in chains as you read this and it has been determined they are innocent, it kind of contradicts reasons for closing it doesnt it. There is a break down somewhere in this story. Does anyone know if there are detainees they know are going to be freed, because it sounds like plans are already being made. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

03-27-2009, 10:26 AM	#14 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	If you are beaten down for 7 years by a country in their prison because first they accused you of being a terrorist against them (and you are innocent) and then they hold you in that prison because they do not know what to do with you..... how are you going to feel towards that country and aren't you going to have a little dislike for the people of that country? This sounds like a very, very bad situation for which there is no true good answer for. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

03-27-2009, 08:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	Do you even know anything about the Uighers?

03-27-2009, 09:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	We should teach them how to commit mass murder and then send them to South America.

03-27-2009, 09:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	you're dating yourself there, filtherton. Now we know you're old like me

03-27-2009, 09:57 AM	#13 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	Sun Tzu, the reason they are not free right now is because legally they should be returned to China, since they dont have permission to stay anywhere else. But everyone knows what would happen to them if they were deported to China, so right now they are trying to either find a nation that would invite them, or finding legal reason to allow them to stay in the US.

03-27-2009, 10:51 AM	#15 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	These guys were cleared for release back in 2004.

03-27-2009, 02:33 PM	#17 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	If they are in chains or not I don't know. But they are still being held there, not really as "guests" either.

03-28-2009, 01:47 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	No we should shoot them in the head. I think we should start cracking down on crime more and we should imprison people, torture them, and then send to to other countries to be tortured and killed. I also think all of this should occur without a trial. I mean these guys are in gitmo they have to be guilty because they are in gitmo that's why they are in gitmo if they weren't terrorists then they wouldn't be in gitmo. So lets just shoot them in the head and save everyone the money while protecting our children.

04-17-2009, 08:39 AM	#22 (permalink)
hiredgun Addict	You seem angry about the 'welfare' aspect, but think of the alternative: we capture and detain harmless prisoners for 7 years without trial, and then release them penniless onto the American streets, with no one to help them and no ability to fend for themselves here (cultural familiarity, business norms, language). That's not only morally reprehensible, but very stupid in a practical sense: we would almost guarantee that they turn to criminality, if not worse.