KillerYoda

Ummm...
Democracy will have to wait, US tells Iraq
Lead: "United States military commanders have ordered a halt to local elections and self-rule in provincial cities and towns across Iraq, instead installing their own hand-picked mayors and administrators, many of them former Iraqi military leaders."

This can't be good.

__________________
"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

The_Dude

nice parallelism on the thread titles!

anyway, what if they do hold elections and the bath party wins? do we invalidate the elections?

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Slims

History has shown over and over again that you can't jump straight from an oppressive regime to a democracy. You have to take it in steps or the people won't be able to handle it. Just look what happenned to the soviet union after it broke up.

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

The_Dude

well, look @ british colonies.

i know for a fact that india, after independence went straight to democracy and have stayed on that course.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Liquor Dealer

Check this out:
http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?threadid=14378

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

The_Dude

lol, but this is india!

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Liquor Dealer

Damn! We finally figured out the problem - No Dude, This is not India - Texas is not in India - somewhere in your past you left India, at least physically.

Now check this out:
http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?threadid=14378

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Mojo_PeiPei

As far as colonies go, just take a look at Africa.... India is obviously an exception.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Ace_of_Lobster

I think you are all missing the point. Democracy works best when the people demand it for themselves and set up their own systems. When its imposed from outside, things are much more difficult, for one thing the new system will have problems with legitimacy, also they are succeptable to corruption.

I dont mean to suggest that it is always this way, one notable exception is Japan. The US was very sucessful at setting up a postwar government in Japan (although it has its own problems with corruption and legitimacy), but it took several years and an incredible ammount of money to do it.

Personally I think the Bush administration underestimated the ammount of work involved, not that it cannot be done.

__________________
"Hundreds of men must have told you how beautiful you are. Would you displease the gods to hear it once more? I wouldn't. Im young and I hope to see a god before I die."
-Patera Silk

Sparhawk

The interesting thing about Japan is that we conditionalized their surrender, by letting them keep their Emperor as a figurehead. I think that if we did not let them keep their Emperor, there would have been a much greater resistance to changing governments and the US occupation. Many Japanese of the time rationalized it as 'the Emperor is OK with it, so are me'.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Ace_of_Lobster

Actually it was an unconditional surrender.

Your right that keeping the Emperor served US interests, really he should have been tried as a war criminal.

__________________
"Hundreds of men must have told you how beautiful you are. Would you displease the gods to hear it once more? I wouldn't. Im young and I hope to see a god before I die."
-Patera Silk

XenuHubbard

The Emperor was against the war. Already before WWII, he was just a puppet for the Japanese hawks.

__________________
The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

The_Dude

this meaning the previous reference i made

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Conclamo Ludus

But democracy was working so well for Iraq. Why would the US do this?

__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues