pan6467

I started this in another thread and as I was typing and moving I realized that this made a good thread and possible discussion point.... so instead of threadjacking I opened this thread.....

Both appeal to the hate, anger, envy crowd..... because hate, anger, envy is a tremendous driving force... people, and this is unfortunately a human characteristic, react faster and with more zeal when they "hate" than when they love. It is far easier t get someone to hate than it is to get them to "love" or even "like" an idea. It is far easier to control a mind that is negative than it is to control one that is positive.

Both parties are built on hate, anger and envy..... Because both parties know THAT is what drives the independent voters to vote. It is what keep the pro life/ pro choice people in line.... it is what keeps Dems hating GOP and Vice Versa......

I believe that both parties try to sell positive messages wrapped up with very negative undertones.

Fear, hated, envy, angst, anger, jealousy.... again are all far better motivators than love, contentment and overall a good sense of well being.

How do we get out of this rut...... do we want to.... Isn't it hatred and the negative that has eventually inspired all changes in government from the beginning of time?

So why break that now? Why work to get a global consciousness now to focus on positive changes instead?

And is that even possible.... Are we so ingrained with negativity that we cannot find love... and if one side does become truly uplifting and positive do they end up losing because those programmed with negativity end up destroying those positive influences before they can truly get anywhere?

Hitler, Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Attila, Stalin and so on have had far far more power than positive influences such as Lincoln, JFK, MLK Jr, FDR and so on... in fact the list there shows that we maybe headed in a better direction as the positive names are far more closer to us than they negatives.

The negatives were destroyed in turn by negatives such as fear, envy, hatred.... they were not defeated by the positive emotions.

Or own country was built and founded on hated and fear of the British. We defeated Hitler by hating and fearing him, we defeated the Stalinistic USSR by hating and fearing them....

What happens if we turn all this negativity into positive energy to better the world? And can we?

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

flstf

I agree that negative campaigning works and helps define the differences in policies. Negative ads that call one a big tax and spender or tries to link one to the failed policies of their party are to be expected. I think what bothers many about the attacks against Obama is the attempt to paint him as some kind of anti-American with ties to terrorists which cause some people to consider him an enemy of the state. With the hate being displayed at some of the Republican rallys I am beginning to fear for his life. People get real excited when they think the next president might be a Muslim who "pals around with terrorists". The Republicans must know that Obama's race and name make it easy for some of their more fervent followers to go off the deep end and is probably why some are asking for them to not fan the flames of hate.

Sun Tzu

I have seen Obama’s latest ad and I will say it’s a sharp contrast to the McCain commercial war. Obama just seem to focus on issues (whether or not he can live up to them?). McCain seems driven to focus on Obama.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

filtherton

I think that right now, the Republicans have pretty much cornered the market on hate, envy and fear. Which party tries to motivate its base by accusing the other party's guy of being a Muslim? Because their base fears and hates Muslims, right? Which party tries to motivate its base by accusing the other party's guy of being friends with terrorists (even though John McCain doesn't care about no washed up terrorists, obviously, look at how motivated he is to go after Bin Laden)? A congresswomen from which party recently called for an investigation of liberal congresspeople to look into patterns of anti-Americanism?

There is always acrimony between party faithful (we know otto, some people made some t-shirts, or something), but this shit goes beyond that. And I think what's happening right now is counter to your notion that this sort of bile is what motivates independents. Right now, the polls seem to indicate that a lot of independents are fed up with the tripe that the Republican machine thinks passes for political dialogue.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Ann Coulter? Wouldn't now be her time to shine? Wouldn't the RNC benefit from using her as a proxy to spew their nonsense?

dc_dux

And all of it cloaked in the mantra of "country first" to give it a feeling, at least to themselves, as the patriot party/

Yes, both parties use negative campaigning.....but No, I dont think both parties resort to campaigning on hate and fear.

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

guyy

I think the direction that Americans usually take after making a statement like the one above is inward. They ask "How can i can change myself so that i can change the world?"

Wasn't another one of your threads entitled "whatyado when you hate both candidates?"

Hmm....

Frosstbyte

It's a proven fact that people feel loss more strongly than they feel gain. Negative campaigns, publicity or policy-making plays off that fact. In the short term, it will always be more effective. I think the democrats and the republicans focus on dramatically different aspects of hate, envy and fear in our society, but they both use it when they need to do so. I don't know if that's sad or bad or just fact. I think asking them to just talk about "the issues" or "positive beliefs" is a great sentiment, but short of some sort of dramatic upheaval, pretty damn unlikely.

FoolThemAll

As someone who never considered voting for Obama, and might still vote for McCain... I gotta agree, the campaigns aren't exactly symmetrical on this point. At least not what's been visible to me.

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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

smooth

the whole question seems strange to me because it misses the point of political parties: to change the system to something they would find better for their interests

so I don't know how a satisfied and generally happy group of people would function as a political party...other than just hang around the other parties trying to change things and make them feel good.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Poppinjay

I realize Hope is considered fear by some. I guess we just have to live with that.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

ratbastid

+1

Couple this with the demonstrated fact that negative campaigning works, and you've got exactly the perfect setup for the situation described in the OP.

Now: traditionally (and in this particular season), bitterly negative campaigns are used by the candidate who's behind. Their campaign becomes less about their positives and more about putting dents in the front-runner. And that's what's happening here. Strangely--and this has little historic precedent--it's not working this time. The hard-core GOP who are going to follow McCain to hell are buying the attacks, but it appears that moderates and independents are repulsed. Probably because of the perfect-storm domestic issues going on right now, would be my guess. They don't want somebody who can slime the opposition, they want somebody who has answers and can solve problems.

Poppinjay

"It's the economy, stupid."

It worked the same way in '92. Clinton focused on the economy. BushI bought socks and went negative. How can you slam an unknown entity when you, yourself are a miserable failure?

"That one will fuck things! I mean REALLY fuck things up. I mean REALLY REALLY fuck things. I mean.... oh never mind."

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

smooth

in this case, the historic trend of jettisoning the riffraff from office when the shit hits the fan is outpacing the historic trend of negative campaigning

low information voters are persuaded by negative campaigning. lately, however, the economic crisis has been so acute even former low information voters are being personally affected and people are tuning into the campaigns at a higher rate.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

jewels

Well gee whiz... I thought that's why I was voting for Obama.

Some of us think he's actually doing all he can to try to change the current mass mindset that's been shaped over the past eight years or so. It's not easy and no, he's not perfect, but I think many of us are open to the ray of hope for the growth of unity and spirit in this country. It's going to take a lot of tiny steps, but it can be done.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
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roachboy

back in the day, i used to subscribe to an e-list called red rock eater. it was run by a guy from ucla, and was really interesting--smart and in some cases prescient. i remember one essay he mailed that outlined what he took as a basic but at the time quite new rhetorical trick in conservative politics--projection. you know, the republicans move way to the right so they talk about the democrats as if they're way to the left and in the process frame themselves as somehow moderate--this at the level of the populist crap, limbaugh of the late 90s, say as an indicator, the phase of the open door for the militia movement and the old birchers and the ascendency of the pat-robertson xtian coalition, the emergence of the whole motely range of organizations that we all now remember so fondly from those grand old days of wholesale hysteria after 9/11/2001. the sort of politics that people thought cowboy george was all about until he took office. the folk who found themselves hoisted by the actions of the neocons. those folk.

anyway, we've seen projection from the right or long enough that you'd have thought folk would recognize it.

there is a fundamental difference between the political language of the republican coalition--the ways in which the political relay system talks to itself, to its demographic--and the ways the democrat's language works. the republican language has centered, and still centers, on identity--everything's about who you are, how you define yourself, how you feel because of how you identify yourself. democrat language does not address the same kind of coalition--it is looser, more diffuse--and so is in general more inclined to talk in terms of principles, to address how you think. these are very different one from the other, despite what pan might think.

the republican language enables them to mobilize people around fear, around xenophobia, around red-baiting and any number of other such tropes simply because it address who you, as Believer (this is the baseline identity) Are. so i think that these "negativities" are PART OF how the republican coalition talks to itself---now this is not to impute beliefs to individuals--rather the language SETS YOU UP to react in certain ways, based on certain cues--and it turns out that often enough folk have reacted that way--so there's no reason to wonder how conservatives think as people--which is as diverse a community at the individual level as any other, really--instead, you only have to look at the language--and you can work out, most of the time, what conservatives will say and how they'll react. not always, but most of the time.

so these emotions that pan complains about are, to my mind, PART OF how republican coalition politics ITSELF works.

democrats are not that far from moderate republicans on issues, but they DO talk to about about themselves differently. the point is that i do not think the parties are the same, that they traffic in the same type of investment, work the same emotions, make the same assumptions about their demographic.

does this mean that only republicans are angry in october 2008? hell no. people are angry about alot of things--take your pick--the veer into fascism-lite after 9/11/2001, guantanomo bay, extraordinary rendition and the other fab treats brough to you by the republican "war on terror"---the shabby, ill considered, unnecessary carnage in iraq, the farce in afghanistan, the wholesale mismanagement of the economy--on and on--of COURSE people are angry.

but speaking now for myself, i'm far less angry than i was a couple years ago because the end of the bush regime is in sight and the only thing that frightens me is that some bizarre-o chain of events will unfold that will result in john fucking mc-cain and sarah palin running the show into the ground for 4 years until the next single day comes around when american citizens are politically free.

i dont see much of anything, though, from the democrats, from the people who support obama from either principled or tactical reasons that matches the kind of poujadiste lunacy that's been caught on camera again and again at rightwing rallies.

so no, pan, at this point i don't think both parties traffic in the same thing in the same way. at all. this even as i am not sure how big a distance separates the two parties on issues--if you exclude the whackjob far right.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite