so palin abused her power - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ratbastid · 10-13-2008, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

But again this was mostly done after the McCain people (many of whom have mas experience with this kind of thing) why didn't they spin this the other way? It's like the McCain camp can't figure out how to do even the most basic political move. They currently seem to be trying to move in several different direction at once. The GOP used to the guys you count on to all get on the same page and spew the same answers to ever question.

It looks to me like the McCain/Palin "team" is badly fractured at the moment. I'm not sure Palin's people have any real interaction with McCain's people--if they do, you wouldn't know it by the inconsistency of the two's speaking points. And the way McCain has been zigging and zagging, it seems clear to me he's being pulled in different directions, probably by different people.

Whatever it is, you're right--their ability to form a coherent message is very seriously off, and that used to be THE thing the GOP had complete mastery of.

roachboy · 10-13-2008, 04:55 AM

they're boxed in and there's no obvious way out barring some Big Event that flies in from Outside. they're boxed in by the bush administration, they're boxed in because that leaves them with the old conservative identity politics to work with and the context is such that their old claims that conservative=american is not getting any traction. they're boxed in by their own tactics, which presuppose that the larger socio-economic situation is predictable and that therefore you can focus on lint and gossip. they're getting hammered by the economic situations because there's no rational basis for separating mc-cain from it. phil gramm from it, and mc-cain from the bush administration. palin seems a lunatic choice from a tactical viewpoint, and this is just another element of a demonstration of what that's the case.

the mc-cain camp has to hope for a deus-ex-machina.

barring that, their most reasonable option is to resign, like you would in a chess game in the context of which you're clearly fucked and playing it out would be tedious.

they've been in a tight situation from day one--bad moves in a tight situation are worse than bad moves in a normal situation.

Poppinjay · 10-13-2008, 05:07 AM

McCain and Palin are making an appearance here today. It's been interesting reading the comments from their faithful.

At this point, it's apparent that not much will sway voters either way.

Ace, it's a good thing you aren't running. The fact that you believe the majority of people would do this tells me all I need to know. You are really out of touch.

aceventura3 · 10-13-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

I'm a cynical person when it comes to people saying they'd do this or do that in a given situation - I think most people are fairly selfish at the end of the day. But I don't think most people would abuse their power in this manner as part of a family feud.

I am flawed. I am not as forgiving as I should be. If a person tazed my nephew, abused my sister - I would make that person's life difficult.
-----Added 13/10/2008 at 12 : 45 : 16-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

wait--so the republican argument about sarah palin is that she's so much just like you that you would have done the same thing she did because, after all, you're just like her? because of course being just like her that is what you would have done and you're just like her. it's like a series of statements masquerading as questions, isn't it? what do these statements mean? is this a tautology?

I vote for people who share my values, as simple as it is it bears repeating because because I often wonder on what basis others vote.
-----Added 13/10/2008 at 12 : 49 : 00-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo

What is disappointing is that with all the "abuse of power" etc.... Wooten is still a state trooper.

I am surprised that anyone would side with a guy that threatened to kill a family member. Drinking in a police car wile armed etc... would just get the rest of us fired. Thereatening my family could get someone killed.

Todd Palin was doing the people in the state of Alaska a favor by trying to rid the force of Wooten. Unfortunately, the union favors him.

Hear, Hear! (or tautology, tautology).

It is like the left is unable to comprehend the other side of the issue.

roachboy · 10-13-2008, 08:50 AM

you're voting, it seems, based on identification, which is different from sharing values. you excuse anything that is done by a conservative because of this and nothing that is done by anyone else for the same reason. this circuit of projection/identification in the place of thinking about policies and how they might address basic problems is infantile. i don't blame you for that, ace, because you perform the relation that is prescribed for you by the political discourse that you invest in.

this is not about what you think so much as about who you imagine yourself to be. who you imagine yourself to be and who you imagine sarah palin to be are close enough that you put yourself in her position. so rather than thinking about abuse of power, you think "i'd have done that" because you're so much like her. you're so much like her because she's so much like you. that's why you support her. it's like supporting yourself. so there is no particular distinction between your subjective world and the world other people know about because you're so much like her. so instead of thinking about the world, you groove to elective affinity. because you're told to.
because you want to be told to.
because you're so much like her.
and she'd want you to want to be told to.

aceventura3 · 10-13-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

This is part of what I never understood about the situation. If this trooper did all these things and I'm not saying he didn't. Why didn't Palin et el just come out and say "Damn right I tried to protect my family from this guy. I'd have taken the same action if any other family contacted my office and alerted me that a trooper was engaging in these dangerous behaviors aimed at their family. As Governor I have to take action to protect the families of Alaska. We have to think outside the box sometimes when families are in danger." Why she first choose to partake in the investigation then refused is beyond me. Seems to me she could have put this to sleep fairly easily.

The way she went about it makes her look like just another power hungry politician. But I think she could have added to her (I can't believe I'm using this word) maverick image had she been more up front from the beginning.

Remeber Libby? After Libby, only an idiot would cooperate with a politically charged investigation.
-----Added 13/10/2008 at 12 : 55 : 28-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

you're voting, it seems, based on identification, which is different from sharing values. you excuse anything that is done by a conservative because of this and nothing that is done by anyone else for the same reason.

I give you the benefit of the doubt in the fact that you don't know me. I disagree with conservatives all the time, and I vote against them too. Regarding our federal government I am always biased toward "outsiders" and non-incumbents. I think "insiders" and people who have been in Washington too long get corrupted by the :system and they often discontinue to share the values of the people who put them there.

Tully Mars · 10-13-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Remeber Libby? After Libby, only an idiot would cooperate with a politically charged investigation.
-----Added 13/10/2008 at 12 : 55 : 28-----

I don't believe that politically charged BS argument here. The numbers don't add up GOP/Dem.

But if that were true how big of an idiot do you have to be to first agree to cooperate then refuse?

roachboy · 10-13-2008, 10:11 AM

well, ace, i don't pretend to see around the sentences you post here. but if what you say is the case, then your ace persona is engaged in a peculiar game, because i would never have guessed how you characterize yourself from what you post. here you seem to adopt more or less straight conversative arguments on almost everything. maybe it's a rhetorical exercise.

the rhetoric has consequences though, and in the characterization of those consequences, i stand by what i wrote above.
interpellation, dontcha know.

it's good to think that you may be treating your identification with that rhetoric as a writing experiment.
keeps the irony muscles flexing.

dc_dux · 10-13-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

But if that were true how big of an idiot do you have to be to first agree to cooperate then refuse?

As big as an idiot who only meets a potential VP candidate once in person, may or may not have been aware of the seriousness of charges by a legislature controlled by his and her own party of violating state ethics laws and the public trust....and still selects her to run with him?
-----Added 13/10/2008 at 02 : 28 : 28-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Remeber Libby? After Libby, only an idiot would cooperate with a politically charged investigation.

Even with the false characterization of this particular case as a "politically charged investigation"....if you didnt do anything wrong...all you have to do is tell the truth...and live up to your oath of office (and/or ethics rules).

guyy · 10-13-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo

What is disappointing is that with all the "abuse of power" etc.... Wooten is still a state trooper.

I am surprised that anyone would side with a guy that threatened to kill a family member. Drinking in a police car wile armed etc... would just get the rest of us fired. Thereatening my family could get someone killed.

Todd Palin was doing the people in the state of Alaska a favor by trying to rid the force of Wooten. Unfortunately, the union favors him.

What is the basis for believing that Wooten did the things the Palins accused him of? Branchflower didn't buy the accusations, nor did the mostly Republican committee that signed off on the report. The divorce/custody judge pointed out that the Palins' vendetta was not in their own interests -- and certainly not in the children's best interest. He called the attacks on Wooten a form of child abuse.

The image you get of Todd Palin in all this is one of a crazy stalker dude, too vindictive and too stupid to know that he's hurting everyone.

Tully Mars · 10-14-2008, 02:16 AM

This thread should probably be closed or at least renamed. I found out recently, from Palin herself no less, the report completely cleared her of any wrong doing. Turns out we all read it wrong, nothing to see here, move along folks.

smooth · 10-14-2008, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

This is part of what I never understood about the situation. If this trooper did all these things and I'm not saying he didn't. Why didn't Palin et el just come out and say "Damn right I tried to protect my family from this guy. I'd have taken the same action if any other family contacted my office and alerted me that a trooper was engaging in these dangerous behaviors aimed at their family. As Governor I have to take action to protect the families of Alaska. We have to think outside the box sometimes when families are in danger." Why she first choose to partake in the investigation then refused is beyond me. Seems to me she could have put this to sleep fairly easily.

The way she went about it makes her look like just another power hungry politician. But I think she could have added to her (I can't believe I'm using this word) maverick image had she been more up front from the beginning.

guyy was answering this question, but people weren't particularly interested in what he wrote.

It's not that abuse of power is owned by Republicans, but that some Republicans' theory of the executive is justification for wielding power as they do. To offer an alternate explanation is to undermine that theory of how the executive should operate. Even if that reason makes sense, offering it substantiates the position that an executive branch is answerable to outside review.

Tully, are you being facetious about the report clearing her?
It only cleared her in respect to whether she can or can not fire the guy. The investigation found that the pressures they applied to him was an abuse of power.

Tully Mars · 10-14-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

Tully, are you being facetious about the report clearing her?
It only cleared her in respect to whether she can or can not fire the guy. The investigation found that the pressures they applied to him was an abuse of power.

Facetious? I was shooting for sarcasm. But I'll take facetious.

aceventura3 · 10-14-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

well, ace, i don't pretend to see around the sentences you post here. but if what you say is the case, then your ace persona is engaged in a peculiar game, because i would never have guessed how you characterize yourself from what you post. here you seem to adopt more or less straight conversative arguments on almost everything. maybe it's a rhetorical exercise.

the rhetoric has consequences though, and in the characterization of those consequences, i stand by what i wrote above.
interpellation, dontcha know.

it's good to think that you may be treating your identification with that rhetoric as a writing experiment.
keeps the irony muscles flexing.

Perhaps you underestimate the complexities of people who don't pretend to be perfect, who are honest, direct and sincere. It is not difficult to see some of my inner conflicts in my writings. That is in-part why I write, it helps me resolve those conflicts. TFP is like my psychoanalyst.

Also, I am a Gemini.

Me too!

10-13-2008, 04:55 AM	#42 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	they're boxed in and there's no obvious way out barring some Big Event that flies in from Outside. they're boxed in by the bush administration, they're boxed in because that leaves them with the old conservative identity politics to work with and the context is such that their old claims that conservative=american is not getting any traction. they're boxed in by their own tactics, which presuppose that the larger socio-economic situation is predictable and that therefore you can focus on lint and gossip. they're getting hammered by the economic situations because there's no rational basis for separating mc-cain from it. phil gramm from it, and mc-cain from the bush administration. palin seems a lunatic choice from a tactical viewpoint, and this is just another element of a demonstration of what that's the case. the mc-cain camp has to hope for a deus-ex-machina. barring that, their most reasonable option is to resign, like you would in a chess game in the context of which you're clearly fucked and playing it out would be tedious. they've been in a tight situation from day one--bad moves in a tight situation are worse than bad moves in a normal situation. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-13-2008, 05:07 AM	#43 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	McCain and Palin are making an appearance here today. It's been interesting reading the comments from their faithful. At this point, it's apparent that not much will sway voters either way. Ace, it's a good thing you aren't running. The fact that you believe the majority of people would do this tells me all I need to know. You are really out of touch. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

10-13-2008, 08:50 AM	#45 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	you're voting, it seems, based on identification, which is different from sharing values. you excuse anything that is done by a conservative because of this and nothing that is done by anyone else for the same reason. this circuit of projection/identification in the place of thinking about policies and how they might address basic problems is infantile. i don't blame you for that, ace, because you perform the relation that is prescribed for you by the political discourse that you invest in. this is not about what you think so much as about who you imagine yourself to be. who you imagine yourself to be and who you imagine sarah palin to be are close enough that you put yourself in her position. so rather than thinking about abuse of power, you think "i'd have done that" because you're so much like her. you're so much like her because she's so much like you. that's why you support her. it's like supporting yourself. so there is no particular distinction between your subjective world and the world other people know about because you're so much like her. so instead of thinking about the world, you groove to elective affinity. because you're told to. because you want to be told to. because you're so much like her. and she'd want you to want to be told to. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-13-2008, 10:11 AM	#48 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	well, ace, i don't pretend to see around the sentences you post here. but if what you say is the case, then your ace persona is engaged in a peculiar game, because i would never have guessed how you characterize yourself from what you post. here you seem to adopt more or less straight conversative arguments on almost everything. maybe it's a rhetorical exercise. the rhetoric has consequences though, and in the characterization of those consequences, i stand by what i wrote above. interpellation, dontcha know. it's good to think that you may be treating your identification with that rhetoric as a writing experiment. keeps the irony muscles flexing. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-14-2008, 02:16 AM	#51 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	This thread should probably be closed or at least renamed. I found out recently, from Palin herself no less, the report completely cleared her of any wrong doing. Turns out we all read it wrong, nothing to see here, move along folks. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club