so i was thinking (vp debate) - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Willravel · 09-30-2008, 12:53 PM

Shh.... we want the conservatives to start putting a value in education and intelligence.

snowy · 09-30-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

mike...the Democratic party has a wide and diverse base.

Heck yeah it does!

Mike wants to ignore the significant portion of the Western United States that votes Democratic, I suppose.

I scored 11/12 on the NewsIQ quiz. I underestimated the number of U.S. dead in Iraq.

Willravel · 09-30-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

I scored 11/12 on the NewsIQ quiz. I underestimated the number of U.S. dead in Iraq.

I scored pretty high too, but I'm not some sort of political genius or anything, I just happen to discuss it from time to time. I really shouldn't be in the 97th percentile. There should be a lot of people way more aware than I am.

Tully Mars · 09-30-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reconmike

No your wrong, I really do not think that most people who live in Camden, Newark, South Chicago, sit around watching the daily show, or Oberman.

Nope you're wrong. That's how I read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reconmike

It has nothing to do with the poll, and for just once I would love to hear one democrat admit that a good portion of their base, is uneducated, inner city urban dwellers.

So democrats aren't left coast/right coast elitists?

abaya · 09-30-2008, 01:12 PM

Why don'tcha tell us how you really feel, Mike?

Apparently the TFP is way more informed than the average population... interesting. I also got 11/12, missed the Dow average.

I was disappointed to see that women did so much more poorly than men. I wonder why that is, seriously. I commented to ktsp once that I very rarely see women on buses, subways, etc reading newspapers... usually they are reading magazines, which tend to have less substance (on average). What do you all think? Do you notice a lot of women reading newspapers in your area?

Tully Mars · 09-30-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

I scored pretty high too, but I'm not some sort of political genius or anything, I just happen to discuss it from time to time. I really shouldn't be in the 97th percentile. There should be a lot of people way more aware than I am.

Beat ya by 1%, I'm guessing that has more to do with the number test takers at the time of each of our tests then our score.

I did think twice about the Dow. And Kosovo kind of threw me, but only because I miss interpreted a previous post.

Paq · 09-30-2008, 03:35 PM

that's kinda offensive since you know, all the redneck, inbred religious nuts in west virginia who won't vote for a black guy be "well, we don't trust the coloreds' are a huge portion of republicans...

yea, this could get nasty

let's just say both parties have their fair share of uneducated people, just that some are inner city urban dwellers and some live 'off the paved road'

(no real offense intended ot those from Wva, i like the state, but that one interview stuck out in my head just now)

Jozrael · 09-30-2008, 03:48 PM

. 10/12 with several good guesses.

I'm not very well-informed, I suppose :\

laconic1 · 09-30-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

I scored pretty high too, but I'm not some sort of political genius or anything, I just happen to discuss it from time to time. I really shouldn't be in the 97th percentile. There should be a lot of people way more aware than I am.

Me neither. I read up on current events some but I'm certainly not an expert. But at the same time I'm not surprised unfortunately.

ottopilot · 09-30-2008, 06:04 PM

The only reason I scored 12/12 was because I happened to read an article about the Dow Jones today... I never follow the Dow Jones that closely.

Charlatan · 09-30-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reconmike

and for just once I would love to hear one democrat admit that a good portion of their base, is uneducated, inner city urban dwellers.

Why would they deny it? The population of the US is large and diverse it only makes sense that both parties would have a good portion of undereducated supporters. And while the democrats might be proportionately more urban, the republicans are likely more proportionately rural.

The thing is, neither undereducated group is running either party.

fresnelly · 09-30-2008, 06:35 PM

Conspiracy theorists are already on watch for evidence of Palin wearing a wire during the debate.

I on the other hand am beginning to think that the debate won't be able to live up to the hype.

roachboy · 09-30-2008, 06:45 PM

i am beginning to feel like ignatius p. reilly, finding so many things idiotic, an offense against all taste and geometry.

edited next day: dont post after a few beers if you're feeling cranky.
that's the moral of this story.

Daval · 10-01-2008, 06:50 AM

I scored 10/12. I underestimated the dead in Iraq and didn't know the senate majority leader name. I'm dissapointed in myself

I can't wait to see the debate on Thursday - I'm gonna record it so I can watch the Canadian leaders debate as well.

Paq · 10-01-2008, 08:32 AM

What it's like to debate Sarah Palin

this is really disturbing about what is really going to happen on the debates. Palin's going to appear genial and spin stories, etc, answer very little and come off looking great while not saying anything. the issue is: will the people buy the fluff? Personally, i think biden should obliterate her. as i once heard: play to win..if you're playing your own grandmother and the score is 5 to 4, then you should play to beat her 50 to 4.

Quote:

WHAT IT'S LIKE TO DEBATE SARAH PALIN
I know firsthand: She's a master of the nonanswer.

By Andrew Halcro
from the October 1, 2008 edition
E-mail Print Letter to the Editor Republish del.icio.us digg

Monitor opinion editor Josh Burek talks with former Alaska state representative and gubenatorial candidate Andrew Halcro about Gov. Sarah Palin's debating abilities.
ANCHORAGE, ALASKA - When he faces off against Sarah Palin Thursday night, Joe Biden will have his hands full.

I should know. I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality. Against such charms there is little Senator Biden, or anyone, can do.

On paper, of course, the debate appears to be a mismatch.

In 2000, Palin was the mayor of an Alaskan town of 5,500 people, while Biden was serving his 28th year as a United States senator. Her major public policy concern was building a local ice rink and sports center. His major public policy concern was the State Department's decision to grant an export license to allow sales of heavy-lift helicopters to Turkey, during tense UN-sponsored Cyprus peace talks.

On paper, the difference in experience on both domestic and foreign policy is like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing a bullet. Unfortunately for Biden, if recent history is an indicator, experience or a grasp of the issues won't matter when it comes to debating Palin.

On April 17, 2006, Palin and I participated in a debate at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks on agriculture issues. The next day, the Fairbanks Daily News Miner published this excerpt:

"Andrew Halcro, a declared independent candidate from Anchorage, came armed with statistics on agricultural productivity. Sarah Palin, a Republican from Wasilla, said the Matanuska Valley provides a positive example for other communities interested in agriculture to study."

On April 18, 2006, Palin and I sat together in a hotel coffee shop comparing campaign trail notes. As we talked about the debates, Palin made a comment that highlights the phenomenon that Biden is up against.

"Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, 'Does any of this really matter?' " Palin said.

While policy wonks such as Biden might cringe, it seemed to me that Palin was simply vocalizing her strength without realizing it. During the campaign, Palin's knowledge on public policy issues never matured – because it didn't have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy.

Palin is a master of the nonanswer. She can turn a 60-second response to a query about her specific solutions to healthcare challenges into a folksy story about how she's met people on the campaign trail who face healthcare challenges. All without uttering a word about her public-policy solutions to healthcare challenges.

In one debate, a moderator asked the candidates to name a bill the legislature had recently passed that we didn't like. I named one. Democratic candidate Tony Knowles named one. But Sarah Palin instead used her allotted time to criticize the incumbent governor, Frank Murkowski. Asked to name a bill we did like, the same pattern emerged: Palin didn't name a bill.

And when she does answer the actual question asked, she has a canny ability to connect with the audience on a personal level. For example, asked to name a major issue that had been ignored during the campaign, I discussed the health of local communities, Mr. Knowles talked about affordable healthcare, and Palin talked about ... the need to protect hunting and fishing rights.

So what does that mean for Biden? With shorter question-and-answer times and limited interaction between the two, he should simply ignore Palin in a respectful manner on the stage and answer the questions as though he were alone. Any attempt to flex his public-policy knowledge and show Palin is not ready for prime time will inevitably cast him in the role of the bully.

On the other side of the stage, if Palin is to be successful, she needs to do what she does best: fill the room with her presence and stick to the scripted sound bites.

• Andrew Halcro served two terms as a Republican member of the Alaska State House of Representatives. He ran for governor as an Independent in 2006, debating Sarah Palin more than two dozen times. He blogs at AndrewHalcro.com | .

jewels · 10-01-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Palin is a master of the nonanswer. She can turn a 60-second response to a query about her specific solutions to healthcare challenges into a folksy story about how she's met people on the campaign trail who face healthcare challenges. All without uttering a word about her public-policy solutions to healthcare challenges.

That says it all. Interesting article, paq.

I find it unreal (I must be dreaming) that so much of this country actually stands behind candidates like this. They call it bashing when we question the capabilities of someone who could potentially run this country? We wouldn't want to hurt her feelings.

What a wonderful welcome to politics and what a stunning role model for our young girls in this new millennium.

roachboy · 10-01-2008, 08:57 AM

what set me off last night was the appearance of a new and improved version of the old conservative canard of "the liberal media" which is now being set up as an "explanation" for the treatment sarah palin's been getting in the press. it appeared across the vehcile of that cnn asshat lou dobbs, who talked about it with a straight face while sitting in front of an american flag. approving commentary was provided by one of the dutiful lackies of the right brought to you by the heritage foundation ("what would reagan do?")

this blog from salon does a good job demolishing this idiocy and provides a little more information about palin-in-alaskan-politics.

Sarah Palin and Mark Halperin's complaints of "liberal media" - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

it's too long to bite here.
because it's a blog, i would invite you to check the sources linked.

the palin style of actually governing is alarming...far more than is her seeming inability to answer a question.

Paq · 10-01-2008, 09:13 AM

roach, i swear i read that exact post somewhere. something about lou dobbs and the heritage foundation saying "the liberal media is treating palin unfairly' followed by a poll something like "should the liberal media treat palin more fairly' or some stupid shit. at any rate, i have to say, take off the kid's gloves bc man or woman, NO LEADER OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY CARES AND WILL ALTER THEIR STANCE bc you put a woman up.

they didn't have kid's gloves with clinton..obama..mccain...quayle...bush sr...clinton...gingrich...so why should she get any different treatment. I don't get this whole "oo, i'm a woman' thing. You're vying to be in line for the 2nd most powerful person..in..the.freaking..world. If you can't handle someone saying "maybe you don't know the issues...maybe you're unprepared' then get the fuck out. this is getting ridiculous.

Glory's Sun · 10-01-2008, 09:16 AM

perhaps someone should bring up the sexist argument. it's quite sexist to assume that any media outlet is being unfair to her. it's also quite sexist for the campaign to hold her in a box. we need to know what she's about in order to vote for or against her. McCain is certainly losing in his judgement argument.

thankfully, Biden already said he wouldn't be wearing kiddie gloves. let's just hope he doesn't become the wind bag gaffe that he can be sometimes.

abaya · 10-01-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paq

they didn't have kid's gloves with clinton..obama..mccain...quayle...bush sr...clinton...gingrich...so why should she get any different treatment. I don't get this whole "oo, i'm a woman' thing. You're vying to be in line for the 2nd most powerful person..in..the.freaking..world. If you can't handle someone saying "maybe you don't know the issues...maybe you're unprepared' then get the fuck out. this is getting ridiculous.

Heyyyyyy now, Ahmadinejad's all about the kid gloves... especially when it comes to women.

Paq · 10-01-2008, 10:29 AM

seriously, i don't get it, are we going to protect her from the world if she becomes pres? Hell, give me clinton, i know she'll bust some balls....palin would smile and ..do what, exactly?

are we so far behind that we really have to alter how we deal with a political figure bc of race or sex...seriously? I don't even see obama getting much press on his race..i mean, did you know he's half white

Glory's Sun · 10-01-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paq

seriously, i don't get it, are we going to protect her from the world if she becomes pres? Hell, give me clinton, i know she'll bust some balls....palin would smile and ..do what, exactly?

are we so far behind that we really have to alter how we deal with a political figure bc of race or sex...seriously? I don't even see obama getting much press on his race..i mean, did you know he's half white

of course we've come to this point.. look.. when it comes to radio and television.. the conservatives pay the freight so to speak.. so naturally we'll see the spin on their side. Notice that douche bag Glenn Beck has become more and more conservative by the day? There's a reason for that.

This is simple attempt by people who support the McCain camp to get more attention back on Palin. She "energizes" voters.. McCain makes them go to sleep.. hopefully, though, people will see beyond the fluff and all the Moose burgers and see what's really there.

Paq · 10-01-2008, 11:11 AM

i have noticed glenn went from "eh, i don't agree with him on much, but ok" to "holy fucknuts, is he channeling hannity, limbaugh and oreilly in one???"

i was very VERY glad people saw through mccain's "I"m going to suspend my campaign and fix the economy' stunt....very happy, kinda surprised, but it gives me "Hope"

Glory's Sun · 10-01-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paq

i have noticed glenn went from "eh, i don't agree with him on much, but ok" to "holy fucknuts, is he channeling hannity, limbaugh and oreilly in one???"

i was very VERY glad people saw through mccain's "I"m going to suspend my campaign and fix the economy' stunt....very happy, kinda surprised, but it gives me "Hope"

It's kind of hard not to see through that stunt when his own party asks him to leave and the fuckwads can't even get to the floor knowing they have the votes..and then blame it on a supposedly hyper-partisan speech.

At this point, given the economic issues.. I really can't see McCain doing anything.. I'd even to venture that his campaign is dead in the water.

but what do I know? I'm not a conservative..

-----Added 1/10/2008 at 03 : 45 : 04-----
oh and now we have an issue with the debate moderator.

The moderator has a book coming out about politics and race.. and naturally the McCain camp didn't know about it. Like she's going to ask questions that help Obama.. seriously.

Ifill's book was no secret - Yahoo! News

Quote:

Michelle Malkin and World Net Daily have made a lot of noise today about the fact the Gwen Ifill, the moderator of Thursday's VP debate, has a new book coming on Inauguration day about Barack Obama and the politics of race -- it's now leading on the front of Drudge.

Fox's Greta Van Susteren reports that the McCain campaign didn't know about it.

"I am stunned….the campaign (actually both) should have been told before the campaign agreed to have her moderate. It simply is not fair -- in law, this would create a mistrial."

But one didn't have to go the lengths of oppo research to find out about a book that was hiding in plain sight on Amazon and the Random house website.

Not to mention, Ifill discussed it with Howard Kurtz last month in the Washington Post, in the only profile she's done before the debate. (And I'd imagine someone in the campaign should have read it).

To the extent she can carve out any spare time, Ifill is working on a book called "Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama." She focuses on the Democratic nominee and such up-and-coming black politicians as Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick and Newark Mayor Cory Booker.

"We're very lazy when we think about race in this country," Ifill says. "We try to put it in a box. It's Jesse versus Al, or Jesse and Al versus everyone else," she says, referring to Jackson and Sharpton. "We love simplistic conflict. There's a whole group of people who have Ivy League degrees and immense accomplishments who actually benefited from the things their parents were fighting for."

Regardless, the story's getting major play on cable news, especially Fox.

This morning with Bill Hemmer, Fox analyst Juan Williams spoke admirably of Ifill as a journalist but admitted that "it looks like she has some investment" in the outcome of the election, and that "there's a perception problem." The FoxNews.com headline: "VP Debate Moderator Pens Pro-Obama Book."

I think Malkin and other critics have a right to raise questions about whether Ifill should be moderating, but at the same time, it's not as if the veteran PBS journalist has been keeping the book under wraps until now. It's also a logical question to ask whether an Obama book would sell better or worse depending on the outcome of the election. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that if Obama's sworn in on the Jan. 20 pub date, a book with "Obama" in the title will sell more copies.

Legitimate questions, indeed. So why is this coming up less than 36 hours before Palin and Biden hit the stage?

(h/t TVNewser who had this clip of Ifill discussing the book).

UPDATE: A spokesperson for PBS's NewsHour said that Ifill is en route to the debate in St. Louis. When asked whether Ifill might disclose that she's writing this book during the debate, the spokesperson said he had no knowledge that she would, and declined to comment further. I also have a call into the Commission on Presidential Debates, and will update if they have a comment.

Leave it to Faux News to make a big deal about this

ottopilot · 10-01-2008, 01:32 PM

Hypocrites much?

Flip the Ifill scenario and see how you feel about it. Bloody murder would be screamed if "that douche bag Glenn Beck" was moderator. Ifill has a vested and financial interest in the successful election of Obama. I believe it is reasonable to also claim a conflict of interest for iFill to preside.

It shouldn't be a big deal... just reassign one of her colleagues the task. The appearance of objectivity is all that's really necessary.

roachboy · 10-01-2008, 01:41 PM

the problem with this wrangling is that it's public. because it's public, it's theater. because it's theater, it isn't going to be read as transparent, and so it looks like the mc-cain campaign is trying to get someone self-evidently sympathetic to a conservative outlook to "moderate" the debate. but if the campaign's really concerned, and if it imagines that it actually had the possibility of changing the moderation--as if that matters---you'd think they'd play this in a backchannel manner. so the fact that it's public seems to indicate that there's no hope of this happening, and what's being set up is a proactive tactic aimed at providing an explanation for failure.

asaris · 10-01-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

Hypocrites much?

Flip the Ifill scenario and see how you feel about it.

Not hard. The next presidential debate is being hosted by Tom Brokaw, NBC's liaision to the McCain campaign and spreader of McCain lies on Meet the Press. Do you hear many liberals complaining about it?

Tully Mars · 10-01-2008, 02:44 PM

To me the Ifill thing does kind of smell funny. So far playing the victim is the only thing Palin has done well. This Ifill situation is simply one more set up for her to play that role. I'd sure like to stop giving this women ready made excuses for when she falls on her face. The other day it was "it's all gotcha journalism" Then it was "that doesn't count the question came from a voter." Seems like everyday it's "the media's all "mean" to her." Yeah they're mean, they ask her questions and she give nonsensical answers. Damned evil media. Hell call someone like Bob Schieffer and see if he's free that night.

I hate the thought of giving her and the McCain camp one more excuse why her answers make no sense.

Seriously can you imagine if Obama stared blankly when asked about SCOTUS cases other then Roe V. Wade? Or answered "Magazines and newspapers? Oh, I read them all, you know any that are put in front of me." It'd be on a 15 minute loop 24/7 for a week on Fox.

dc_dux · 10-01-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

Hypocrites much?

Flip the Ifill scenario and see how you feel about it. Bloody murder would be screamed if "that douche bag Glenn Beck" was moderator. Ifill has a vested and financial interest in the successful election of Obama. I believe it is reasonable to also claim a conflict of interest for iFill to preside.

It shouldn't be a big deal... just reassign one of her colleagues the task. The appearance of objectivity is all that's really necessary.

Bob Schieffer moderated one of the debates in 04. It was well known that he had long standing social ties to the Bush family and that he was a frequent personal golfing buddy of GW. In fact, Bush appointed Schieffer's brother to be ambassador to Australia in his first term, and ambassador to Japan after his reelection. He and McCain go back together a long way as well, with Schieffer being an enthusiastic traveler on the "straight talk express".....btw, Schieffer will moderate the last debate.

In any case, Iffil should make some disclaimer at the start of the debate.

ottopilot · 10-01-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Bob Schieffer moderated one of the debates in 04. It was well known that he had long standing social ties to the Bush family and that he was a frequent personal golfing buddy of GW. In fact, Bush appointed Schieffer's brother to be ambassador to Australia in his first term, and ambassador to Japan after his reelection. He and McCain go back together a long way as well, with Schieffer being an enthusiastic traveler on the "straight talk express".....btw, Schieffer will moderate the last debate.

In any case, Iffil should make some disclaimer at the start of the debate.

dc - Regarding the relationship with Schieffer to GW or McCain, I don't see the parallel with Ifill standing to benefit substantially from book sales if Obama wins. It's like Pete Rose betting on Reds games.

I agree that appearances of cronyism should not have been tolerated if that truly was the case with Schieffer. The ambassadorship to his brother could be questionalble, but two of my siblings are opposites politically to my little sister and me. Bob Schieffer's brother could have earned that all on his own... who knows? So I have difficulty seeing the Schieffer analogy as being equal, but give points on the appearance of some kind of relationship.

If the McCain camp is OK with an Ifill disclaimer, then I think that would be fine. It could make things more interesting depending on the questioning and performance of the candidates.

-----Added 1/10/2008 at 07 : 49 : 48-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by asaris

Not hard. The next presidential debate is being hosted by Tom Brokaw, NBC's liaision to the McCain campaign and spreader of McCain lies on Meet the Press. Do you hear many liberals complaining about it?

Tom Brokaw is an evil white conservative.

asaris · 10-01-2008, 05:02 PM

Well, not to mention that the book has been public knowledge since at least July, before McCain agreed to her as the moderator. If he's not going to do a minimal amount of research on the moderator's background before he agrees to her as moderator, he has no grounds for complaint the day before the debate.

Paq · 10-01-2008, 09:13 PM

YouTube - 9/30 Sarah Palin Katie Couric Interview FULL INTERVIEW (HQ) - Full Story -Katie Couric Interviewing Sarah Palin Sept 30 About Abortion, Global Warming, Homosexuality, Energy, World Views, What Newspapers She Reads, September 30th (High Qual

I am posting this..but i'm going to have to take it all in...this is the 2nd time i've seen it and i'm still just in awe...i have to pick my jaw up off the floor...again

dc_dux · 10-02-2008, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

dc - Regarding the relationship with Schieffer to GW or McCain, I don't see the parallel with Ifill standing to benefit substantially from book sales if Obama wins. It's like Pete Rose betting on Reds games.

Right, she can sell it to the Democratic base that, according to reconmike, is uneducated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reconmike

...just once I would love to hear one democrat admit that a good portion of their base, is uneducated, inner city urban dwellers.

Paq · 10-02-2008, 06:20 AM

umm
if you're talking about mccain doing research....

ummmmmmmmmm....did you see who he chose for vp and how much he researched her?>

Glory's Sun · 10-02-2008, 06:32 AM

Look, it's obvious that Ifill has some vested interest in OBAMA. She has not interest in Biden. It doesn't matter if Obama looses or wins..the book will still sell because it's about the race lines being broken in politics..not how great and mighty and powerful Obama is

This is just a sad attempt for the McCain camp to downplay any expectations and it gives the republican spin room ample ammunition in case she fucks up majorly. "She would have done a better job if there was a different moderator asking the questions. She did great considering that fact"

This isn't the first time (as so clearly defined above) that moderators have ties with candidates.. and I'd venture to say that it's more damaging to have a personal relationship with the candidate than having a vested interest in the candidate.. come to think of it.. WE ALL have a vested interest in the candidates.

..and this whole uneducated base thing.. I don't even want to comment on something so ignorant.

sprocket · 10-02-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Of course she's 'that' ill-informed. You don't need to be a master of current events, policy, or even geopolitics to be a mayor of Wasilla or Governor for less than 2 years of Alaska.

What we'll see from Palin: memorized party lines, poorly delivered. Also, equal parts confusion and trying to look cute (if only Kerry would have figured out that works).
What we'll see from Biden: a difficult job in trying to simultaneously wipe the floor with Palin while also not appearing mean to her at all. Why? Despicable, stupid, partisan people seem to think that even being in the same hemisphere of questioning Palin means that they need to scream "Sexism!" and jump to her defense. Like the job of VP rests comfortably on a bed of pillows and she'll only have to deal with puppies and flowers.

I can't wait for her to lose. Why? Ignorant hubris. Undeserved confidence puts me off like nothing else.

Wow, this reads like a fresh story covering the recently finished debate.

Paq · 10-02-2008, 10:02 PM

sprocket..no kidding, i can barely tell the diff between willravel's page and exactly what i saw on tv and from the analysts. She was trying too hard to sound folksy, look cute, and deliver SCRIPTED MEMORIZED lines about as well as your average 3rd grade actor on stage.

my favorite: "what is your Achilles heel" "my executive experience will be used effectively" or some shit like that. complete...complete disregarding the question..when a question was asked that she didn't have an answer for, she'd simply change the question to something she knew. 'i want to continue talking about taxes" Nobody had mentioned taxes.

seriously, it played out about like i expected, expectations were so low for her that this is being touted as a win by some.....msnbc put it as "a tie for palin is like a win'....
so far, al the polls i'm seeing show biden as the winner, but i'm sure it will be construed as a win for whomever someone liked before the debate.

Oh, last thing...her "You betcha's" and "bless their hearts' and the "maverick" lines...just sounded forced..like a constipated poodle.

Nisses · 10-03-2008, 12:48 AM

I suppose it's not done for a moderator to pull the "repeat the question" trick?

It's what a few journalists here have done in the past with public figures that give non-answers, effectively calling them out on their bullshit answers?

Catdaddy33 · 10-03-2008, 04:05 AM

NUK U LAR

She looked at her notecards way to much but no real big flubs. I really like the way Biden did, he took aim at McCain and didn't let up. As far as personal "moments" when he was talking about being a single father after losing his wife and child, it really connected, cause it was truly from the heart and not a play like Palin tries to make it.

I didn't know much about Biden other than he's been a long term congessman, after this debate I feel better about Biden. Palin still scares me, I don't want "Joe six-pack" in the White House, mayor six-pack is OK and Governor six-pack may be OK, but President six-pack no thanks..

Shouldn't she had said "Joan six-pack"?

ratbastid · 10-03-2008, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catdaddy33

NUK U LAR

HATE OUR FREEDUMB

Turns out she's George Bush in lipstick.

09-30-2008, 01:12 PM	#45 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Why don'tcha tell us how you really feel, Mike? Apparently the TFP is way more informed than the average population... interesting. I also got 11/12, missed the Dow average. I was disappointed to see that women did so much more poorly than men. I wonder why that is, seriously. I commented to ktsp once that I very rarely see women on buses, subways, etc reading newspapers... usually they are reading magazines, which tend to have less substance (on average). What do you all think? Do you notice a lot of women reading newspapers in your area? __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 09-30-2008 at 01:20 PM..

09-30-2008, 03:35 PM	#47 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	that's kinda offensive since you know, all the redneck, inbred religious nuts in west virginia who won't vote for a black guy be "well, we don't trust the coloreds' are a huge portion of republicans... yea, this could get nasty let's just say both parties have their fair share of uneducated people, just that some are inner city urban dwellers and some live 'off the paved road' (no real offense intended ot those from Wva, i like the state, but that one interview stuck out in my head just now) __________________ Live. Chris

09-30-2008, 06:04 PM	#50 (permalink)
ottopilot let me be clear Location: Waddy Peytona	The only reason I scored 12/12 was because I happened to read an article about the Dow Jones today... I never follow the Dow Jones that closely. __________________ "It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

09-30-2008, 06:35 PM	#52 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	Conspiracy theorists are already on watch for evidence of Palin wearing a wire during the debate. I on the other hand am beginning to think that the debate won't be able to live up to the hype. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

09-30-2008, 06:45 PM	#53 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i am beginning to feel like ignatius p. reilly, finding so many things idiotic, an offense against all taste and geometry. edited next day: dont post after a few beers if you're feeling cranky. that's the moral of this story. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 10-01-2008 at 07:06 AM..

09-30-2008, 12:53 PM	#41 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Shh.... we want the conservatives to start putting a value in education and intelligence.

09-30-2008, 03:48 PM	#48 (permalink)
Jozrael Junkie	. 10/12 with several good guesses. I'm not very well-informed, I suppose :\

10-01-2008, 06:50 AM	#54 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	I scored 10/12. I underestimated the dead in Iraq and didn't know the senate majority leader name. I'm dissapointed in myself I can't wait to see the debate on Thursday - I'm gonna record it so I can watch the Canadian leaders debate as well. __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

10-01-2008, 08:57 AM	#57 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	what set me off last night was the appearance of a new and improved version of the old conservative canard of "the liberal media" which is now being set up as an "explanation" for the treatment sarah palin's been getting in the press. it appeared across the vehcile of that cnn asshat lou dobbs, who talked about it with a straight face while sitting in front of an american flag. approving commentary was provided by one of the dutiful lackies of the right brought to you by the heritage foundation ("what would reagan do?") this blog from salon does a good job demolishing this idiocy and provides a little more information about palin-in-alaskan-politics. Sarah Palin and Mark Halperin's complaints of "liberal media" - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com it's too long to bite here. because it's a blog, i would invite you to check the sources linked. the palin style of actually governing is alarming...far more than is her seeming inability to answer a question. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-01-2008, 09:13 AM	#58 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	roach, i swear i read that exact post somewhere. something about lou dobbs and the heritage foundation saying "the liberal media is treating palin unfairly' followed by a poll something like "should the liberal media treat palin more fairly' or some stupid shit. at any rate, i have to say, take off the kid's gloves bc man or woman, NO LEADER OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY CARES AND WILL ALTER THEIR STANCE bc you put a woman up. they didn't have kid's gloves with clinton..obama..mccain...quayle...bush sr...clinton...gingrich...so why should she get any different treatment. I don't get this whole "oo, i'm a woman' thing. You're vying to be in line for the 2nd most powerful person..in..the.freaking..world. If you can't handle someone saying "maybe you don't know the issues...maybe you're unprepared' then get the fuck out. this is getting ridiculous. __________________ Live. Chris

10-01-2008, 09:16 AM	#59 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	perhaps someone should bring up the sexist argument. it's quite sexist to assume that any media outlet is being unfair to her. it's also quite sexist for the campaign to hold her in a box. we need to know what she's about in order to vote for or against her. McCain is certainly losing in his judgement argument. thankfully, Biden already said he wouldn't be wearing kiddie gloves. let's just hope he doesn't become the wind bag gaffe that he can be sometimes.

10-01-2008, 10:29 AM	#61 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	seriously, i don't get it, are we going to protect her from the world if she becomes pres? Hell, give me clinton, i know she'll bust some balls....palin would smile and ..do what, exactly? are we so far behind that we really have to alter how we deal with a political figure bc of race or sex...seriously? I don't even see obama getting much press on his race..i mean, did you know he's half white __________________ Live. Chris

10-01-2008, 11:11 AM	#63 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	i have noticed glenn went from "eh, i don't agree with him on much, but ok" to "holy fucknuts, is he channeling hannity, limbaugh and oreilly in one???" i was very VERY glad people saw through mccain's "I"m going to suspend my campaign and fix the economy' stunt....very happy, kinda surprised, but it gives me "Hope" __________________ Live. Chris

10-01-2008, 01:32 PM	#65 (permalink)
ottopilot let me be clear Location: Waddy Peytona	Hypocrites much? Flip the Ifill scenario and see how you feel about it. Bloody murder would be screamed if "that douche bag Glenn Beck" was moderator. Ifill has a vested and financial interest in the successful election of Obama. I believe it is reasonable to also claim a conflict of interest for iFill to preside. It shouldn't be a big deal... just reassign one of her colleagues the task. The appearance of objectivity is all that's really necessary. __________________ "It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

10-01-2008, 01:41 PM	#66 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	the problem with this wrangling is that it's public. because it's public, it's theater. because it's theater, it isn't going to be read as transparent, and so it looks like the mc-cain campaign is trying to get someone self-evidently sympathetic to a conservative outlook to "moderate" the debate. but if the campaign's really concerned, and if it imagines that it actually had the possibility of changing the moderation--as if that matters---you'd think they'd play this in a backchannel manner. so the fact that it's public seems to indicate that there's no hope of this happening, and what's being set up is a proactive tactic aimed at providing an explanation for failure. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-01-2008, 02:44 PM	#68 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	To me the Ifill thing does kind of smell funny. So far playing the victim is the only thing Palin has done well. This Ifill situation is simply one more set up for her to play that role. I'd sure like to stop giving this women ready made excuses for when she falls on her face. The other day it was "it's all gotcha journalism" Then it was "that doesn't count the question came from a voter." Seems like everyday it's "the media's all "mean" to her." Yeah they're mean, they ask her questions and she give nonsensical answers. Damned evil media. Hell call someone like Bob Schieffer and see if he's free that night. I hate the thought of giving her and the McCain camp one more excuse why her answers make no sense. Seriously can you imagine if Obama stared blankly when asked about SCOTUS cases other then Roe V. Wade? Or answered "Magazines and newspapers? Oh, I read them all, you know any that are put in front of me." It'd be on a 15 minute loop 24/7 for a week on Fox. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

10-01-2008, 05:02 PM	#71 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	Well, not to mention that the book has been public knowledge since at least July, before McCain agreed to her as the moderator. If he's not going to do a minimal amount of research on the moderator's background before he agrees to her as moderator, he has no grounds for complaint the day before the debate. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

10-02-2008, 06:20 AM	#74 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	umm if you're talking about mccain doing research.... ummmmmmmmmm....did you see who he chose for vp and how much he researched her?> __________________ Live. Chris

10-02-2008, 06:32 AM	#75 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Look, it's obvious that Ifill has some vested interest in OBAMA. She has not interest in Biden. It doesn't matter if Obama looses or wins..the book will still sell because it's about the race lines being broken in politics..not how great and mighty and powerful Obama is This is just a sad attempt for the McCain camp to downplay any expectations and it gives the republican spin room ample ammunition in case she fucks up majorly. "She would have done a better job if there was a different moderator asking the questions. She did great considering that fact" This isn't the first time (as so clearly defined above) that moderators have ties with candidates.. and I'd venture to say that it's more damaging to have a personal relationship with the candidate than having a vested interest in the candidate.. come to think of it.. WE ALL have a vested interest in the candidates. ..and this whole uneducated base thing.. I don't even want to comment on something so ignorant.

10-02-2008, 10:02 PM	#77 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	sprocket..no kidding, i can barely tell the diff between willravel's page and exactly what i saw on tv and from the analysts. She was trying too hard to sound folksy, look cute, and deliver SCRIPTED MEMORIZED lines about as well as your average 3rd grade actor on stage. my favorite: "what is your Achilles heel" "my executive experience will be used effectively" or some shit like that. complete...complete disregarding the question..when a question was asked that she didn't have an answer for, she'd simply change the question to something she knew. 'i want to continue talking about taxes" Nobody had mentioned taxes. seriously, it played out about like i expected, expectations were so low for her that this is being touted as a win by some.....msnbc put it as "a tie for palin is like a win'.... so far, al the polls i'm seeing show biden as the winner, but i'm sure it will be construed as a win for whomever someone liked before the debate. Oh, last thing...her "You betcha's" and "bless their hearts' and the "maverick" lines...just sounded forced..like a constipated poodle. __________________ Live. Chris Last edited by Paq; 10-02-2008 at 10:11 PM..

10-03-2008, 12:48 AM	#78 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	I suppose it's not done for a moderator to pull the "repeat the question" trick? It's what a few journalists here have done in the past with public figures that give non-answers, effectively calling them out on their bullshit answers? __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.

10-03-2008, 04:05 AM	#79 (permalink)
Catdaddy33 Psycho Location: TN	NUK U LAR She looked at her notecards way to much but no real big flubs. I really like the way Biden did, he took aim at McCain and didn't let up. As far as personal "moments" when he was talking about being a single father after losing his wife and child, it really connected, cause it was truly from the heart and not a play like Palin tries to make it. I didn't know much about Biden other than he's been a long term congessman, after this debate I feel better about Biden. Palin still scares me, I don't want "Joe six-pack" in the White House, mayor six-pack is OK and Governor six-pack may be OK, but President six-pack no thanks.. Shouldn't she had said "Joan six-pack"?