Fiorina says Palin not ready - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Baraka_Guru · 09-17-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

gibberish translation: check his attendance and voting records (IL state senate and US Senate), time spent on actually writing legislation vs. memoirs written... all public record, I'm not going to litigate my point. Time he actually showed up for the job, poor responsibility and effectiveness to his constituents, etc. Prime target to get fired in the real world. He's brilliant, but he doesn't do his job. He doesn't serve the people.

Votes missed:

Obama:

McCain:

The lower dotted line is the median; the upper dotted line is the 90th percentile.

I'm guessing the recent absentees are related to campaigning.

So what are you saying, exactly? Are both candidates not up for the job because they're both too busy running around trying to be presidents? I'd blame your electoral system before I'd blame individuals for not serving the public. Or do you have something more specific besides attendance you'd like to point out? Can you put more substance in your claims?

roachboy · 09-17-2008, 07:09 AM

i think what otto is saying is a retread of the usual pablum about people with ivy league educations being somehow problematic in "the real world" which of course does not include such institutions.

in other words, there's no there there.
again.

aceventura3 · 09-17-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

That's funny, I don't see the Democrat's message as being one of Doom and Gloom but rather one of hope and trust in America's ability to change the things that need changing.

I guess we are listening to different messages.

For example, I think our economy is in fact fundamentally strong. We are in a crisis, but I think it will pass. I look at the 94% of Americans working. I look at the 98% of the home not in default. I look at GDP continuing to grow. I look at exports increasing. I look at the fact it still takes 1/2 hour wait at local restaurants for dinner on the weekend. I look at people buying big screen TV's, cell phones and $500 purses. I look at electricity flowing to my home, my garbage getting picked up, roads being built and repaired. Then I hear Obama say the economy is broken. It is not.

Quote:

I agree that the competency thing is a distraction. That said, I find it interesting that your vote for McCain is tipped in his favour by the choice of Palin as his running mate. Do you really feel that the VP has that much of an effect on the core business of the oval office?

For example, McCain, in my view rightfully says the fundamentals of the economy are strong, then rather than defending his statement he backs off. I don't think Palin would. Palin gives me hope for the future. I want her to succeed. I want more people with her "fight" in Washington. I don't think she is perfect and she has weaknesses, but who doesn't?
-----Added 17/9/2008 at 11 : 25 : 05-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

My god! Perspectives are SUCH interesting things!

I can't FATHOM how you could find the GOP message positive and optimistic. It sounds cynical and paranoid to me. And I can't imagine how you can hear "hope" as doom and gloom. The cognitive dissonance for me in reading this paragraph is nothing short of stunning.

I'll also note that, in the question of "is the country on the right track?" you're in a marked minority. You're entitled to that opinion, of course. But you're nuts.

Direction of Country

Here are the most recent numbers (from a GfK Roper poll Sept. 5-10):

For example - I think our initial invasion and strategy in Iraq was correct, our enemy adapted and for a period got the upper hand. Then we adapted and now have the upper hand. I think there are ebbs and flows to war. Regardless of your position on us going to war, once we were at war I think the focus needs to be on winning it. Democrats seem to have difficulty with the fact that we at one point had the upper hand and now have the upper hand. I think we can accomplish our goals with Iraq. Democrats don't think it is possible. I think the war is currently on the right track, Democrats don't.

ratbastid · 09-17-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

For example - I think our initial invasion and strategy in Iraq was correct, our enemy adapted and for a period got the upper hand. Then we adapted and now have the upper hand. I think there are ebbs and flows to war. Regardless of your position on us going to war, once we were at war I think the focus needs to be on winning it. Democrats seem to have difficulty with the fact that we at one point had the upper hand and now have the upper hand. I think we can accomplish our goals with Iraq. Democrats don't think it is possible. I think the war is currently on the right track, Democrats don't.

There are rumblings that all is not as rosy as reported in Iraq at the moment, but even setting that aside: How about the economy? Health care? Energy? Food prices?

The war is a waning issue in this campaign. It's still there, but people's wallets are screaming at them right now, and that's always going to come first. I don't think any of the four I mentioned are winner issues for the Republican ticket at the moment. Which is why the McCain campaign isn't running on issues, it's running on personality. Which is the only world the Palin choice makes any sense.

You (the generic "you", not "YOU", ace) can "la-di-da" about the problems facing the country right now if your politics demand that of you, but before long the rest of the world just sees your ostrich head in the sand.

aceventura3 · 09-17-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

How about the economy? Health care? Energy? Food prices?

Again, in all of those areas I can see a lot of positives. Not perfection, perhaps some areas needing attention, but certainly not totally broken.

asaris · 09-17-2008, 08:21 AM

Post deleted -- obsolete.

ratbastid · 09-17-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Again, in all of those areas I can see a lot of positives. Not perfection, perhaps some areas needing attention, but certainly not totally broken.

Well, again, you're entitled to your opinion, but 70% of America disagrees with you. That alone doesn't make them right and you wrong, but it's still a pretty big polling trend.

filtherton · 09-17-2008, 01:06 PM

Well, to be fair, Bush was demonstrably bad at running corporations and that didn't stop him from having one of the most successful presidencies in the history of our great nation.

Rekna · 09-17-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Well, to be fair, Bush was demonstrably bad at running corporations and that didn't stop him from having one of the most successful presidencies in the history of our great nation.

We need a sarcasm tag for statements like this.

djtestudo · 09-17-2008, 02:23 PM

Who was the last president to:

1) Run a business of any real size (not necessarily Fortune 500, but bigger than, say, a law firm)?

2) Have enough business experience to be qualified at any reasonable management level at a major corporation?

Obviously the Bushes. Maybe Reagan (president of the SAG). Beyond that, you probably have to go back a ways to find one.

That just means that it is a different kind of job that requires different types of skills.

A good CEO needs to be a good manager, but a president needs to be a good leader. Each job needs some of both skills, but much more of one.

Tully Mars · 09-17-2008, 02:43 PM

Jimmy Carter ran a successful agricultural business prior to entering politics. A lot people referred to Carter as "that peanut farmer from Georgia." But it was much more then a peanut farm, including a cotton gin and agricultural supplies sales. I'm not sure of the numbers but I'd bet he made more money doing that then any of the business ventures Bush Jr. ran.

djtestudo · 09-17-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Jimmy Carter ran a successful agricultural business prior to entering politics. A lot people referred to Carter as "that peanut farmer from Georgia." But it was much more then a peanut farm, including a cotton gin and agricultural supplies sales. I'm not sure of the numbers but I'd bet he made more money doing that then any of the business ventures Bush Jr. ran.

I was going to put Carter in there, but I wasn't sure how big his operation was.

ratbastid · 09-18-2008, 04:31 AM

Bush Pére was an oilman too. He founded Zapata Petrolium and was an oil millionaire by the time he was 40.

Tully Mars · 09-18-2008, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Bush Pére was an oilman too. He founded Zapata Petrolium and was an oil millionaire by the time he was 40.

Yeah, sometimes it's good to have friends... and family.

Zapata Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You know there's a difference between hitting a triple and being born on third base.

Paq · 09-18-2008, 07:40 AM

GOP senator: A 'stretch' to say Palin is qualified - Yahoo! News

Quote:

WASHINGTON - Nebraska Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel said his party's vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, lacks foreign policy experience and called it a "stretch" to say she's qualified to be president.
ADVERTISEMENT

"She doesn't have any foreign policy credentials," Hagel said in an interview published Thursday by the Omaha World-Herald. "You get a passport for the first time in your life last year? I mean, I don't know what you can say. You can't say anything."

Could Palin lead the country if GOP presidential nominee John McCain could not?

"I think it's a stretch to, in any way, to say that she's got the experience to be president of the United States," Hagel said.

McCain and other Republicans have defended Palin's qualifications, citing Alaska's proximity to Russia. Palin told ABC News, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."

Hagel took issue with that argument. "I think they ought to be just honest about it and stop the nonsense about, 'I look out my window and I see Russia and so therefore I know something about Russia,'" he said. "That kind of thing is insulting to the American people."

Hagel, a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has been a vocal critic of the Bush administration since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

In July, Hagel traveled to Iraq and Afghanistan with Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. Though he didn't expect to be asked, Hagel had said he would have considered serving as Obama's running mate.

Palin was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, population 6,500, before becoming Alaska's governor in December 2006.

Palin visited soldiers in Kuwait and Germany last year and said in an interview with ABC News that her only other foreign travel had been to Mexico and Canada. She also said she had never met a foreign head of state.

Hagel told the newspaper that other governors have been elected to serve in the White House without experience in Washington. He said judgment and character were also important for the job.

"But I do think in a world that is so complicated, so interconnected and so combustible, you really got to have some people in charge that have some sense of the bigger scope of the world," Hagel said. "I think that's just a requirement."

I agree, it's insulting to the people and it's misleading and i'm SURE they could find something else to focus on instead of this...

aceventura3 · 09-18-2008, 08:19 AM

Deleted. I got it.

09-17-2008, 07:09 AM	#42 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i think what otto is saying is a retread of the usual pablum about people with ivy league educations being somehow problematic in "the real world" which of course does not include such institutions. in other words, there's no there there. again. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-17-2008, 08:21 AM	#46 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	Post deleted -- obsolete. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche Last edited by asaris; 09-17-2008 at 08:29 AM..

09-17-2008, 02:23 PM	#50 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Who was the last president to: 1) Run a business of any real size (not necessarily Fortune 500, but bigger than, say, a law firm)? 2) Have enough business experience to be qualified at any reasonable management level at a major corporation? Obviously the Bushes. Maybe Reagan (president of the SAG). Beyond that, you probably have to go back a ways to find one. That just means that it is a different kind of job that requires different types of skills. A good CEO needs to be a good manager, but a president needs to be a good leader. Each job needs some of both skills, but much more of one. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

09-17-2008, 02:43 PM	#51 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Jimmy Carter ran a successful agricultural business prior to entering politics. A lot people referred to Carter as "that peanut farmer from Georgia." But it was much more then a peanut farm, including a cotton gin and agricultural supplies sales. I'm not sure of the numbers but I'd bet he made more money doing that then any of the business ventures Bush Jr. ran. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

09-18-2008, 08:19 AM	#56 (permalink)
aceventura3 Junkie Location: Ventura County	Deleted. I got it. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 09-18-2008 at 08:35 AM..

09-17-2008, 01:06 PM	#48 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Well, to be fair, Bush was demonstrably bad at running corporations and that didn't stop him from having one of the most successful presidencies in the history of our great nation.

09-18-2008, 04:31 AM	#53 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	Bush Pére was an oilman too. He founded Zapata Petrolium and was an oil millionaire by the time he was 40.