Treason!! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sixate · 06-26-2003, 12:11 PM

LINKY

Quote:

I dare call it treason

The myth of "McCarthyism" is the greatest Orwellian fraud of our times. Liberals are fanatical liars, then as now. The portrayal of Sen. Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren't hiding under the bed during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation's ability to defend itself, while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy's name. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis. As Whittaker Chambers said: "Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does."

At the time, half the country realized liberals were lying. But after a half century of liberal myth-making, even the disgorging of Soviet and American archives half a century later could not overcome their lies. In 1995, the U.S. government released its cache of Soviet cables that had been decoded during the Cold War in a top-secret undertaking known as the Venona Project. The cables proved the overwhelming truth of McCarthy's charges. Naturally, therefore, the release of decrypted Soviet cables was barely mentioned by the New York Times. It might have detracted from stories of proud and unbowed victims of "McCarthyism." They were not so innocent after all, it turns out.

Soviet spies in the government were not a figment of right-wing imaginations. McCarthy was not tilting at windmills. He was tilting at an authentic communist conspiracy that had been laughed off by the Democratic Party. The Democrats had unpardonably connived with the greatest evil of the 20th century. This could not be nullified. But liberals could at least hope to redeem the Democratic Party by dedicating themselves to rewriting history and blackening reputations. This is what liberals had done repeatedly throughout the Cold War. At every strategic moment this century, liberals would wage a campaign of horrendous lies and disinformation simply to dull the discovery the American people had made. They had gotten good at it.

There were, admittedly, a few rare and striking exceptions to the left's overall obtuseness to communist totalitarianism. John F. Kennedy's pronouncements on communism could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy. For all his flaws, Truman unquestionably loved his country. He was a completely different breed from today's Democrats. Through the years, there were various epiphanic moments creating yet more anti-communist Democrats. The Stalin-Hitler pact, Alger Hiss' prothonotary warbler, information about the purges and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago" – all these had their effect.

But after World War II, the Democratic Party suffered a form of what France had succumbed to after World War I. The entire party had lost its nerve for sacrifice, heroism and bravery. Beginning in the '50s, there was a real battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. By the late '60s, the battle was over. The anti-communist Democrats had lost.

In 1972, George McGovern, darling of left-wing radicals, was the Democratic presidential candidate. Tom Hayden, leader of Students for a Democratic Society and an instigator of the Chicago riots, became a Democratic state senator in California. (In 1968, Staughton Lynd wrote of Tom Hayden: "On Monday, Wednesday and Friday he was a National Liberation Front guerilla, and on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, he ... was on the left wing of the Democratic Party.") Black Panther Bobby Rush would go on to become a Democratic congressman. Todd Gitlin, a former president of SDS, would soon be a frequent op-ed columnist for the New York Times. By the time of the 1991 Gulf War, only 10 Senate Democrats voted with President Bush to use troops against Saddam Hussein. If the old Democratic Party was merely obtuse, the new Democratic Party was a beachhead of domestic anti-Americanism. This was the new Democratic Party.

Clinton was the left's last best hope for proving they too could handle the presidency. Having tricked the American people into entrusting a Democrat with the White House (on a plurality vote), they had to defend him from any lie, any felony, any reprehensible, contemptible conduct he threw their way. When Clinton first showed his fat oleaginous mug to the nation, the Republicans screamed he was a draft-dodging, pot-smoking flim-flam artist. Had the Republicans turned out to be right again, it would have sounded the death knell for the Democratic Party.

So the Democrats lied. Through their infernal politics of personal destruction, liberals stayed in the game for a few more years.

Unless we fight for proper treatment of history and counter the nonsense images of McCarthy, no history can be safe from the liberal noise machine. Someday, school children will be taught that all of America cringed with terror at Ken Starr, whose evil designs on the nation were frustrated only through the sacrifice of brave liberals. People will have vivid images of the pounding boots of Starr's subpoena-servers and the Gestapo-like wails of alarms as Ken Starr arrived to kick in the doors of innocent Americans and storm through their bedrooms. It will be the Reign of Terror under Ken Starr.

Bill Clinton will be revered in high school history books as the George Washington of his day who, along with patriots Larry Flynt and James Carville, "saved the Constitution." He will be honored with a memorial larger than the Washington Monument (though probably with the same general design).

People will believe that. And liberals will continue unabashedly invoking a lie in order to shield their ongoing traitorous behavior.

All I can say id I sure am glad I stand on the RIGHT!!
I'll probably buy Ann Coulter's book Treason this weekend.
I'd bet my life on the fact that it's about 1 million times more interesting than Hellary Cuntbag's lame ass tell nothing book.

<center>*waits for all the libs to bash*</center>

The_Dude · 06-26-2003, 12:22 PM

er... when did liberal mean communist?

Kadath · 06-26-2003, 01:33 PM

When did Ann Coulter become something other than a brainless harridan, shrieking vainly against everything good "the left" has ever done? I don't want to read Hillary's book, either. Both the bitches are self-important and I think they need a steel cage death match.

The_Dude · 06-26-2003, 02:01 PM

nude match

JOKING!

geep · 06-26-2003, 02:02 PM

From now on the history books will refer to the 1950's era as "Bourgeois McCarthyism" and the 2000's politically correct atmosphere will be refered to as "Rehabilitated McCarthyism"

KillerYoda · 06-26-2003, 02:48 PM

I might pick up the "Books on Tape" version. I hear it flows better with the added "Heil Hitler"s in the background while she narrates.

tard · 06-26-2003, 03:48 PM

Her stuff always reads better in the original German.

Lebell · 06-26-2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KillerYoda
I might pick up the "Books on Tape" version. I hear it flows better with the added "Heil Hitler"s in the background while she narrates.

Quote:

Originally posted by KillerYoda
I love arguments like this where the pro-war people always respond with the sarcastic "hmmm...well, I guess then..." while the anti-war people always post an article proving their point.

Aren't these two statements contradictory, KillerYoda?

Tophat665 · 06-26-2003, 05:24 PM

Anne Coulter should only open her mouth to stick a cock in it.

KillerYoda · 06-26-2003, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
Aren't these two statements contradictory, KillerYoda?

No, because I was going for "liberal sarcasm." If I was trying the "conservative sarcasm" it would have been:

"Hmmm...well I guess then we can all forget about [insert some liberal author's name] because they're always so right."

There's a difference in the sarcasm used. Where mine is funny, sarcastic remarks like this:

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
Oh, no evidence of mobile weapons labs.

Hmmm, like the two we found.

And I guess president Clinton didn't have access to the same intelligence that president Bush does.

That made a lot of sense.

are not.

Also, I never said anything about anti-war or pro-war, I just called happen to have always viewed Coulter as the Ava Braun for the new millenium.

That whole bit of business seemed like a personal attack, if you ask me.

Lebell · 06-26-2003, 07:08 PM

chavos · 06-26-2003, 07:41 PM

Seriously, i would reccomend strongly "Many are the Crimes" by Mary Schrecker. It details how both the left and right used and absued anti-communist sentiment, and how it affected people's lives. The fact that the Army was the one to bring McCarthy down refutes that whole rant...

Kadath · 06-26-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
..

My response to this would be "Oh, snap."

Sparhawk · 06-27-2003, 04:49 AM

Instead of linking to this trash, how about a report on the soviet cables pointing to treason in government?

And are we forgetting that most of the people McCarthy went after weren't even government employees, but average americans?

And calling liberals nazi sympathizers??!? 30 second history lesson: Nazis = ultra-conservative fascists = anathema to 99.9999% of self-identified liberals.

Why am I bothering trying to refute this revisionist garbage anyway, when any person with half a brain will see it for what it is: crap.

The_Dude · 06-27-2003, 07:11 AM

10-4, nazi's are actually closer to conservatives on the political spectrum.

nazi's -> far right

geep · 06-27-2003, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Why am I bothering trying to refute this revisionist garbage anyway, when any person with half a brain will see it for what it is: crap.

And the prevailing revisionist history is? The need for security during the Cold War was real. While there were not "Soviet spies" under every rock, they did indeed exist. McCarthy went overboard, but that didn't make him evil incarnate. People have done it before, people do it NOW, and people will do it again. We as humans have a tendancy to look back on history and guess at peoples motivations. Ann Coulter's "guess" is just as valid as anyone elses. Put it in perspective and move on.

The_Dude · 06-27-2003, 07:35 AM

you are actually defending mccarty?

geep · 06-27-2003, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
you are actually defending mccarty?

I am not defending McCarthy. I'm just saying McCarthyism wasn't the end of the world nor was the end of McCarthy the last time people have been persecuted in this country for what they believe or say.

Sparhawk · 06-27-2003, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geep
I am not defending McCarthy. I'm just saying McCarthyism wasn't the end of the world nor was the end of McCarthy the last time people have been persecuted in this country for what they believe or say.

Our current government seems to have been taking some lessons.

geep · 06-27-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Our current government seems to have been taking some lessons.

So have the Dems- they "Rehabilitated" Trent Lott.

seretogis · 06-27-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
10-4, nazi's are actually closer to conservatives on the political spectrum.

nazi's -> far right

The political spectrum is circular. "Far left" and "Far right" are very similar in policy. Both want complete and total control over the populace, through the power of government.

LINKY

LINKY #2

Claiming that Nazis were essentially Republicans, is absolutely ridiculous, and is a troll imo.

mirevolver · 06-27-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
10-4, nazi's are actually closer to conservatives on the political spectrum.

nazi's -> far right

Communists -> far left.

smooth · 06-27-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
Claiming that Nazis were essentially Republicans, is absolutely ridiculous, and is a troll imo.

more accurately, mischaracterization:

Quote:

calling liberals nazi sympathizers??!? 30 second history lesson: Nazis = ultra-conservative fascists = anathema to 99.9999% of self-identified liberals.

Quote:

nazi's are actually closer to conservatives on the political spectrum.

nazi's -> far right

and using one example out of a group of "alternative spectra":

Quote:

Perhaps the simplest alternative to the left-right spectrum was devised as a rhetorical tool during the Cold War. This was a circle which brought together the far right and left ends of the traditional spectrum, equating "extreme socialism" (i.e. the Communist Party) with "extreme conservatism" (i.e. Fascism). This nexus was particularly useful to those opposed to rapprochement with the Soviet Union.

as definative proof of one's points is trollish.

geep · 06-27-2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
Claiming that Nazis were essentially Republicans, is absolutely ridiculous, and is a troll imo.

Quote:

Originally posted by smooth
as definative proof of one's points is trollish.

Don't make me have to pull this car over....

smooth · 06-27-2003, 06:09 PM

Do whatever you want, geep.

You do just fine demonstrating your own intelligence.

The_Dude · 06-27-2003, 07:32 PM

i wasnt calling repub's nazi's.

somebody hinted that all liberals are communist sympathizers or something (too lazy to read back).

so, i was just pointing that one the linear political spectrum, nazi's would be more likely to assosiate w/ the republican party.

grumpyolddude · 06-28-2003, 03:23 PM

Someone once said, "Extremism in the name of patriotism...."

Bullshit then, bullshit now. McCarthy's extremism may not have been diabolical, but he doesn't deserve canonization either. His methods were wrong and destructive, and liberals never re-wrote that information.

Ms. Coulter appears to be just bashing away at anything that hints of disagreement with her own extreme mindset. If she has an agenda other than demonizing half of the population, she needs to display more restraint.

Nad Adam · 06-28-2003, 04:03 PM

When is this woman posing in Playboy? With a boobjob she'd have the looks for it and she obviously already got the brains for it.

Conclamo Ludus · 06-28-2003, 04:19 PM

Extremism tastes bad out of any blender

fnaqzna · 06-28-2003, 06:56 PM

Ann Coulter is our punishment for screaming about the first amendment...

yatzr · 06-30-2003, 01:40 AM

i think some people need to take a deep breath and just stop trying to piss off the other group. I was gonna say something about all the people who thought they'd be cool by writing some smart ass sarcastic remark about the other political affiliation, but then i realized that it would just carry the argument on a little more.

Sparhawk · 06-30-2003, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nad Adam
When is this woman posing in Playboy? With a boobjob she'd have the looks for it and she obviously already got the brains for it.

she's definitely someone I'd like to have sex with in a very uncomfortable place.

Sparhawk · 06-30-2003, 07:24 AM

This cracked me up:

If Treason is typical of the quality work you can expect from Ann Coulter I'll be sure to pick up her next book, Adolf: Liberal Exaggerations About The World's Greatest Humanitarian.

Charlatan · 06-30-2003, 08:25 AM

Coulter is a revisionist of the worst ilk.

McCarthy, as someone indicated above, was attacking average citizens just a much (if not more so) than his higher profile stars and politicians. His witch-hunt ruined many lives.

Were some of those people communists? Quite possibly. Did they have every right to be a communist? Yes. Just as people are allowed to be Muslim today.

Freedom of religion, political association, etc. These are citizens rights.

To be a communist does not mean that you are trading nuclear secrets or planning to under mine your country. McCarthism didn't see this distinction.

Many good peoples lives were ruined and the nation was spun into an unrealistic frenzy of suspicion and fear. Very powerful tools for controlling a populace no?

Sound familiar? Sounds like the 80s and it sounds like the 2000s to me... Nothing like creating a boogeyman that you can scare the kiddies with to keep them in line...

KillerYoda · 06-30-2003, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
she's definitely someone I'd like to have sex with in a very uncomfortable place.

Like the back of a Volkswagon?

Sparhawk · 06-30-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KillerYoda
Like the back of a Volkswagon?

Only 68 minutes for that one.

Heh heh heh.

Phaenx · 06-30-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fnaqzna
Ann Coulter is our punishment for screaming about the first amendment...

I like to think she's your punishment for Michael Moore.

hotzot · 06-30-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tard
Her stuff always reads better in the original German.

Damn that made me laugh!!!! I saw her on MSNBC and the first thing that popped in my head was "we must preserve za arian race"

debaser · 06-30-2003, 06:11 PM

Yawn, more ranting from an extremist whack-job. Left, right, they're all the same.

fnaqzna · 06-30-2003, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
I like to think she's your punishment for Michael Moore.

Fair enough... LOL

06-26-2003, 12:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	er... when did liberal mean communist? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 01:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	When did Ann Coulter become something other than a brainless harridan, shrieking vainly against everything good "the left" has ever done? I don't want to read Hillary's book, either. Both the bitches are self-important and I think they need a steel cage death match. __________________ it's quiet in here

06-26-2003, 02:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	nude match JOKING! __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 02:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
KillerYoda The Original Emo Gangsta Location: Sixth Floor, Texas School Book Depository	I might pick up the "Books on Tape" version. I hear it flows better with the added "Heil Hitler"s in the background while she narrates. __________________ "So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

06-26-2003, 05:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	Anne Coulter should only open her mouth to stick a cock in it. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

06-26-2003, 02:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	From now on the history books will refer to the 1950's era as "Bourgeois McCarthyism" and the 2000's politically correct atmosphere will be refered to as "Rehabilitated McCarthyism"

06-26-2003, 03:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
tard Crazy Location: Under the Yellow Brick Road	Her stuff always reads better in the original German.

06-26-2003, 07:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	.. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! Last edited by Lebell; 06-26-2003 at 07:17 PM..

06-26-2003, 07:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	Seriously, i would reccomend strongly "Many are the Crimes" by Mary Schrecker. It details how both the left and right used and absued anti-communist sentiment, and how it affected people's lives. The fact that the Army was the one to bring McCarthy down refutes that whole rant...

06-27-2003, 04:49 AM	#14 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Instead of linking to this trash, how about a report on the soviet cables pointing to treason in government? And are we forgetting that most of the people McCarthy went after weren't even government employees, but average americans? And calling liberals nazi sympathizers??!? 30 second history lesson: Nazis = ultra-conservative fascists = anathema to 99.9999% of self-identified liberals. Why am I bothering trying to refute this revisionist garbage anyway, when any person with half a brain will see it for what it is: crap. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

06-27-2003, 07:11 AM	#15 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	10-4, nazi's are actually closer to conservatives on the political spectrum. nazi's -> far right __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-27-2003, 07:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	you are actually defending mccarty? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-27-2003, 06:09 PM	#25 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Do whatever you want, geep. You do just fine demonstrating your own intelligence. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

06-27-2003, 07:32 PM	#26 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i wasnt calling repub's nazi's. somebody hinted that all liberals are communist sympathizers or something (too lazy to read back). so, i was just pointing that one the linear political spectrum, nazi's would be more likely to assosiate w/ the republican party. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-28-2003, 03:23 PM	#27 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	Someone once said, "Extremism in the name of patriotism...." Bullshit then, bullshit now. McCarthy's extremism may not have been diabolical, but he doesn't deserve canonization either. His methods were wrong and destructive, and liberals never re-wrote that information. Ms. Coulter appears to be just bashing away at anything that hints of disagreement with her own extreme mindset. If she has an agenda other than demonizing half of the population, she needs to display more restraint. __________________ "Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

06-28-2003, 04:03 PM	#28 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	When is this woman posing in Playboy? With a boobjob she'd have the looks for it and she obviously already got the brains for it. __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

06-28-2003, 04:19 PM	#29 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	Extremism tastes bad out of any blender __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

06-28-2003, 06:56 PM	#30 (permalink)
fnaqzna Meat Popsicle Location: Left Coast	Ann Coulter is our punishment for screaming about the first amendment...

06-30-2003, 01:40 AM	#31 (permalink)
yatzr Insane	i think some people need to take a deep breath and just stop trying to piss off the other group. I was gonna say something about all the people who thought they'd be cool by writing some smart ass sarcastic remark about the other political affiliation, but then i realized that it would just carry the argument on a little more. __________________ Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets.

06-30-2003, 07:24 AM	#33 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	This cracked me up: If Treason is typical of the quality work you can expect from Ann Coulter I'll be sure to pick up her next book, Adolf: Liberal Exaggerations About The World's Greatest Humanitarian. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

06-30-2003, 08:25 AM	#34 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Coulter is a revisionist of the worst ilk. McCarthy, as someone indicated above, was attacking average citizens just a much (if not more so) than his higher profile stars and politicians. His witch-hunt ruined many lives. Were some of those people communists? Quite possibly. Did they have every right to be a communist? Yes. Just as people are allowed to be Muslim today. Freedom of religion, political association, etc. These are citizens rights. To be a communist does not mean that you are trading nuclear secrets or planning to under mine your country. McCarthism didn't see this distinction. Many good peoples lives were ruined and the nation was spun into an unrealistic frenzy of suspicion and fear. Very powerful tools for controlling a populace no? Sound familiar? Sounds like the 80s and it sounds like the 2000s to me... Nothing like creating a boogeyman that you can scare the kiddies with to keep them in line... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-30-2003, 06:11 PM	#39 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	Yawn, more ranting from an extremist whack-job. Left, right, they're all the same. __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.