06-05-2008, 07:47 AM | #41 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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06-05-2008, 10:03 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I don't see Obama giving his VP "Dick Cheney" type power. Fr him the VP will be a figurehead in name only. With McCain, his VP will probably be president. So, his selection will be of more importance to me than Obama's.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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06-05-2008, 10:23 AM | #45 (permalink) | |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
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06-05-2008, 10:36 AM | #46 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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06-05-2008, 10:54 AM | #47 (permalink) |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
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Well, given your move to state a matter of value judgment as a unquestionably decided fact... I don't know why I assume that. Sorry, my mistake.
But hey, if you ever feel the need to strengthen their pro-war resolve, increase their hidden and/or unhidden stubbornness, and give them the warranted impression that dogmatism is not solely a feature of the pro-war side... you need only repeat what you said here verbatim. Good work!
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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
06-05-2008, 11:11 AM | #48 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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06-05-2008, 11:23 AM | #49 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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06-05-2008, 11:31 AM | #50 (permalink) | |
Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It!
Location: Southern England
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Sounds like JFK all over again. If he'd not been shot, he was headign for being a very unpopular guy indeed, as I understand it.
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06-05-2008, 11:57 AM | #51 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
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06-05-2008, 12:47 PM | #52 (permalink) | ||
Baltimoron
Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD
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Good way of thinking about things.
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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun |
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06-05-2008, 01:18 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club Last edited by Tully Mars; 06-05-2008 at 01:22 PM.. |
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06-05-2008, 01:23 PM | #56 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Continuing to support the war is a more clear cut issue... only it isn't. No question, it's going terribly, and "staying the course" is not an option. That said, the Powell Doctrine is very compelling. We broke it. There's a very healthy debate to be had regarding whether it's better for the Iraqi's for us to stay (though considerably alter our strategy), or for us to just leave. But I do think that that's where the discussion needs to be centered: what's best for the Iraqi's, and what do they want, not what's best for us. It sucks that the Bush administration got us into this mess, but that doesn't mean we can just pretend like we're not the country that is, in a large part, responsible for where Iraq is right now. Personally, I think a responsible withdrawal is best, but that's largely because we're incapable of committing the time and resources necessary to fix the mess we've created. Because, at this point, we need to treat this like a whole new war if we're going to stick around, and we don't have the forces or the money for that.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 06-05-2008 at 01:31 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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06-05-2008, 01:29 PM | #57 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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For me, at first I supported action, that is until Hans Blix came back empty handed and I thought, "Whew, that's great, now we don't need to invade." Then, the whole thing just went to crap. In the end, people will believe what they want to believe. |
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06-05-2008, 01:30 PM | #58 (permalink) | |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
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While you're at it, could you find me a citation on why green is a much better color than pink? Before you go and waste time on google, here's a hint: facts can do much to describe the quality of execution, but they're nigh useless with the quality of intention.
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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
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06-05-2008, 01:34 PM | #59 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Incidentally, I had about the same experience as you.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
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06-05-2008, 01:39 PM | #60 (permalink) | ||
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Oh sure, I definitely agree with you - the media (not without blame, just not sole blame), the administration are not mutually exclusive in responsibility.
Here is a sample of what I am referring too. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080605/...ntelligence_dc Quote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080605/ap_on_el_pr/clinton Quote:
The Dems really need to secure their positions in Congress if Obama is to have success in the White House. To me, the Congressional placements will be the most interesting thing to watch this November. I would like to see more independents, 3rd party members get elected too. Last edited by jorgelito; 06-05-2008 at 01:45 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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06-05-2008, 02:00 PM | #61 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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I don't see Hillary over taking Reid in the majority position, but it could happen. I certainly don't see her doing worse then Reid. And I could see her being AG. If she is indeed out of contention who do you think is at the top of his short list?
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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06-05-2008, 02:10 PM | #63 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Tully, I think that's kind of the fun isn't it? No one really knows. If I worked in an office I would make an office betting pool. It may sound funny, but the way this race has been shaping up really makes me feel like part of the process. People are talking, deliberating, discussing - it's good for us really.
I think the Veep job is wide open. Looking at the CQ site made me dizzy, so many people I never even thought of. Intuitively, I would think a person of experience, a familiar face that the people really like, maybe someone from the south, a bit more moderate, and notable/respected. Good gosh, could it be...Ted Kennedy? He sort of fits the bill. A solid Democrat, experienced, a Kennedy name, white, older, could be a good choice. Not very moderate though, but hey, this is the Democratic party. Wesley Clark is intriguing but he's been out of the spotlight for a while now, and I really don't know much about him other than he's a military man. There definitely is a good opportunity here for the Democrats to make some strategic moves throughout the government at all levels, if they can unite and get organized enough. Then maybe our g'ovt can move forward agaon (just please oh please don't raise taxes). The writing is on the wall. |
06-05-2008, 02:15 PM | #64 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
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06-05-2008, 03:03 PM | #67 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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/threadjack |
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06-05-2008, 03:51 PM | #68 (permalink) | ||
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
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I don't think I need your permission. Quote:
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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
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06-05-2008, 09:21 PM | #70 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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I do think it's fun. Ted Kennedy? Hmm, not sure what to make of that statement? I like both Clark and Webb. Webb could add that southern military blue collar accent to the ticket, IMO. It's odd, thinking back on it, how quickly Hillary fell out of favor with me. It really wasn't that long ago I would have been very happy with Clinton/Obama or vise versa. Watching her campaign was like watching a train wreck. How could she not have a plan past Feb 5th? Why would her staff think she could simply win all the California delegates? The numbers really became impossible for her weeks ago. Even then I could have seen her as a viable option for his VP, though I was having serious doubts his campaign would agree. But I figured she could parlay her political capital into a spot if she wanted it. I went back and forth on this thinking why is she still running? It's hurting the party as a whole. But I suppose maybe at this point she needs to keep going to unite the party once the last primary is completed. After all the contests were over Tuesday and she announced she had decided not to decide what to do I thought, WTF? Umm, excuse me lady the voters decided. It's like she's completely disconnected from reality... and she wants to be the VP? I think I'll be happy with who ever he ends up picking. But I do think it's time to choose somebody who won't, seemingly, make it their life's work to tell the other side of the aisle to go fuck themselves. Cheney, Rumsfield et el come to mind. All this "all or nothing, we want it our way and we'll stuff it down your throat to get" is getting us no where fast. Time to start listening to each other and actually solving some of the issues. The war continues on borrowed money, the economy is dropping like a rock-wasn't a rising econ. suppose to pay for all those tax cuts? I looked and I can't even find what is the current energy policy. While I have friends and family e-mailing me they can't afford to buy gas to get to work. It's not too late, IMO. The US has a long history of stepping up to the plate and solving problems. But I don't see how we do that with more "us v. them." Bottom line is it's fast becoming one big fat shit sandwich and EVERYBODY going to have to take their bite. If Obama chooses a decent VP and gets to work it can be done. Hell I'm not so certain McCain might not be able to gets things going in the right direction, though obviously I prefer Obama. But it's going to take working together, not fighting against each other. If it is then the next Admin. is going to make Carter's look like a huge success.
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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06-05-2008, 09:33 PM | #71 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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I think you hit the theme right there: Unity and compromise. I am actually looking forward to the next administration whomever it may be.
You're right. It is time to get people on the same page and work together instead of sabotaging things for the sake of sabotaging things. |
06-05-2008, 10:04 PM | #72 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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He had Johnson picked for him because Johnson was an extremely powerful senator and well liked man among his colleagues. Kennedy was not. Johnson was able to carry the South for Kennedy. Johnson and Kennedy hated each other immensely. Kennedy was unable to get anything done , then he was shot and Johnson was petty much handcuffed to follow through on the Kennedy visions. That's what I have read and learned about that presidency.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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06-06-2008, 12:58 AM | #73 (permalink) |
Location: Iceland
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Re: the comments on taxes...
Living in Iceland, paying 40% income tax and 24% sales tax, I am a BIG supporter of Americans needing to pay more taxes. We are allowed to be far too selfish, as a nation. I hope they DO raise taxes, as long as it goes to take care of our fellow citizens. I'm willing to pay it.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
06-06-2008, 04:04 AM | #74 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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06-06-2008, 04:27 PM | #75 (permalink) | |
immoral minority
Location: Back in Ohio
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What about Caroline Kennedy? She is on his VP search team, but I think she would be a different choice and be interesting. Last edited by ASU2003; 06-06-2008 at 04:30 PM.. |
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06-07-2008, 09:51 AM | #76 (permalink) | |
Searching for the perfect brew!
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I don't see Obama winning if he doesn't do this!
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"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son" |
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06-07-2008, 10:41 AM | #77 (permalink) |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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Wes Clark provides those things, and would go a ways toward mending fence with the angry Hillary droids.
Upsides: VERY smart man, well thought-of, rich military experience. Certainly stronger on military, veteran, and foreign-policy than McCain. Downsides: Not great on the stump, prone to intellectual rather than soundbyte-ready speech (which is, IMO, what killed Kerry) |
06-07-2008, 11:12 AM | #78 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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Seems anymore the VP pick has to be the pit bull of the campaign. I think someone like Webb might not be a bad choice. His face as been out there, he used to be a GOP, has military experience up the wazoo (that's gotta hurt) and he's some what famous for telling Bush to politely, or not depending on your point of view, to go fuck himself. But I could also see him working with all sides to find real solutions to the mess we're in.
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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06-10-2008, 12:41 AM | #79 (permalink) | |
Addict
Location: Seattle
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when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way. |
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06-10-2008, 04:17 PM | #80 (permalink) |
That's what she said
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Not sure just how reliable this is, but here's a short list of names Obama's vetters are considering for VP (according to First Read).
Gen. James Jones, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Evan Bayh, Kathleen Sebelius, Ted Strickland, Mark Warner, Tim Kaine, Jim Webb, Bill Nelson, Jack Reed, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Tom Daschle, and Sam Nunn.
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"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past." "Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him." |
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