What the hell, Hill? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

abaya · 05-23-2008, 12:57 PM

It's no news that I'm an Obama supporter, but still... watching Hillary make a blunder as stupid as this one still came as a surprise to me, just a few minutes ago... WHAT THE HELL was she thinking?!?! -- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080523/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

Quote:

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. - Sen. Hillary Clinton referred Friday to the assassination of Robert Kennedy in 1968 Democratic campaign as a reason she should continue to campaign despite increasingly long odds.

Clinton was responding to a question from the Sioux Falls Argus Leader editorial board about calls for her to drop out of the race.

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know I just, I don't understand it," she said, dismissing the idea of dropping out.

Please help me understand her extreme stupidity.

Shauk · 05-23-2008, 01:39 PM

She just let it slip that she's going to have Obama offed in June.

snowy · 05-23-2008, 01:58 PM

Wow. I can't believe those words came out of her mouth. I think even Stewie Griffin would say that was in bad taste.

roachboy · 05-23-2008, 02:13 PM

um...

yeah.

up to this point, i had exercised no originality whatsoever and imagined that an obama/clinton ticket would be a very good thing.
i still think it would be, but a bit less so.

now i'm thinking about bulworth. i think that having warren beatty rap the last quarter of the film was maybe the last thing as stupid as this remark that didn't emanate from that special quadrant of stupid that we all know and love so, the "i know what it's like to put food on your family" place.

Aladdin Sane · 05-23-2008, 02:28 PM

Never dreamed I'd be defending her, but...
I just now saw the videotape, and I fail to see why her comment is a big deal. She was only making the point that she is being told to get out of the race before June, and this call is a historical aberration. To reinforce her point, she reminded her audience that RFK had just won the JUNE 1968 California primary when he was killed. For me, and folks my age, her remark only reminds us that we have witnessed a Democratic primary race lasting into June, and it shouldn't be viewed as unusual.

Of course, I actually hope she takes it all the way to the August convention in Denver. Watching the Dems rip the hide off each other makes this old conservative smile...

laconic1 · 05-23-2008, 02:31 PM

I saw that and couldn't believe it myself. Regardless of her intentions or how her people try to spin it there was no way she could invoke Bobby Kennedy in a manner that wouldn't come off horribly wrong.

ASU2003 · 05-23-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shauk

She just let it slip that she's going to have Obama offed in June.

That is what I thought to. Or at least she was going to gain something if he was taken out by some redneck who thinks the south should have won 150 years ago.

But, it isn't 'really' what she said or was thinking. It is just everyone (including the unbiased media

) jumped to that conclusion and are using it against her.

I don't care if she says in, it is her right to do so. Just deal with the issues, there are plenty of them.

Willravel · 05-23-2008, 02:47 PM

"I'll still run because if someone murders Obama I'll get to be president."

Kinda tasteless.

Martian · 05-23-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU2003

But, it isn't 'really' what she said or was thinking. It is just everyone (including the unbiased media

) jumped to that conclusion and are using it against her.

...Wait, what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillary Clinton

My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know I just, I don't understand it...

Now granted I admit to having something of an infirm grasp of American politics. Maybe candidates have a shorter life expectancy there. But from what I'm understanding, she has stated that she will stay in the race even though she knows she's pretty much lost, on the hopes that some misfortune (ie assassination) will befall her opponent.

Where's the ambiguity here?

dc_dux · 05-23-2008, 03:00 PM

I rate it as only the second stupidest political comment of the week.

The winner.....someone at the Calif. Campaign for Children and Families following the Cal Supreme Court ruling that county clerks must begin to issue same sex marriage licenses:

Ask your county clerk if they were a Nazi officer during WWII and had been ordered to gas the Jews, would they? At the Nuremberg trials, they would have been convicted of murder for following this immoral order.

And a close third behind Hillary....Mike Huckabee when hearing a loud bang off stage while speaking at a McCain event:

"That was Barack Obama," Huckabee quipped, "He Just tripped off a chair. He was getting ready to speak. Somebody aimed a gun at him and he…he dove for the floor."

abaya · 05-23-2008, 03:00 PM

Incidentally, it was not an "off the cuff" remark. She made the same, exact reference back in March, in an interview with Time magazine.

loquitur · 05-23-2008, 03:24 PM

I can't imagine she meant she was hoping for Obama to get killed. I understood that to mean that anything can happen, look at history.

Doesn't she get the same pass Obama does for "boneheaded" remarks? If not, why not? (I suspect it's because she pissed off a lot of the press and this is how they take their institutional revenge.)

abaya · 05-23-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loquitur

I can't imagine she meant she was hoping for Obama to get killed. I understood that to mean that anything can happen, look at history.

It doesn't matter what she "meant." We all know that by now, in this campaign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loquitur

Doesn't she get the same pass Obama does for "boneheaded" remarks? If not, why not? (I suspect it's because she pissed off a lot of the press and this is how they take their institutional revenge.)

"Pass?" What kind of "passes" have Obama been getting? Quite the opposite, if you ask me...

snowy · 05-23-2008, 04:41 PM

The Caucus, a blog in the NYTimes, wasted no time jumping on this:

Quote:

Updated BRANDON, S.D. –Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton defended staying in the Democratic nominating contests Friday by saying that her husband did not wrap up the nomination until June 1992 and that, “We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California.”

Her remarks set off a torrent of criticism, and within hours of making them Mrs. Clinton expressed regrets, saying, “The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of Senator Kennedy. And I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and particularly for the Kennedy family was in any way offensive.”

Still, the comments touched on one of the most sensitive aspects of the current presidential campaign — concern for Senator Barack Obama’s safety. And they come as Democrats have been talking increasingly of an Obama/Clinton ticket, with even former President Bill Clinton musing with associates about the possibility of his wife as vice president as the best path to the presidency if she loses the nominating fight.

It was in the context of discussions about her political future that Mrs. Clinton made the remarks Thursday, in a meeting with the editorial board of the the Sioux Falls Argus Leader.

“People have been trying to push me out of this ever since Iowa,” where she came in third, behind Mr. Obama and former Senator John Edwards, Mrs. Clinton said. When asked why that would be she said she did not know; primaries sometimes go on a long time and there was no reason she should give up hers prematurely.

“My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don’t understand it,” Mrs. Clinton said, dismissing the idea of dropping out.

Update, 8 p.m.: Our colleague Jeff Zeleny, who is traveling with Senator Obama, tells us:

Mr. Obama learned about Mrs. Clinton’s remarks as he rode in his motorcade from Miami to Sunrise, Fla., on Friday. He and his aides discussed the matter, but decided he would not address the comment when he arrived at an afternoon rally.

Instead, to an audience of 16,000 people who filled the Bank Atlantic Center arena, Mr. Obama praised the candidacy of Mrs. Clinton and assured Democrats that their party would be united after the long primary campaign ended.

Privately, aides to Mr. Obama were furious at the remark, particularly because his safety is a particularly sensitive issue. He was the first presidential candidate to receive Secret Service protection more than a year ago because of specific threats, none of which were disclosed.

In an interview earlier this year, Mr. Obama said he was aware of the threats, but felt safe because of the Secret Service protection, which he pointed out was given to presidential candidates because of the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.

“It’s not something that I’m spending time thinking about day-to-day,” Mr. Obama told The New York Times in February. “I made a decision to get into this race. I think anybody who decides to run for president recognizes that there are some risks involved, just like there are risks in anything.”

Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, which has refrained from engaging Mrs. Clinton in recent days, called Senator Clinton’s statement “unfortunate and has no place in this campaign.” And Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, an uncommitted superdelegate and the majority whip of the House of Representatives, said trough a spokeswoman, “This is beyond the pale.”

An aide to Mrs. Clinton said that she was simply using the Kennedy assassination as a benchmark to underscore that nomination fights can go a long time and that she was in no way implying anything else.

“She was simply referencing her husband in 1992 and Bobby Kennedy in 1968 as historical examples of the nominating process going well into the summer,” said Mo Elleithee, a spokesman for the Clinton campaign. “Any reading into it beyond that is outrageous.”

At Sunshine Foods here, Mrs. Clinton said the following:

“Earlier today I was discussing the Democratic primary history and in the course of that discussion mentioned the campaigns that both my husband and Senator Kennedy waged in California in June, in 1992 and 1968. And I was referencing those to make the point that we have had nomination primary contests that go into June. That’s a historic fact.

“The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of Senator Kennedy. And I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and particularly for the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever. My view is that we have to look to the past and to our leaders who have inspired us and give us a lot to live up to. I am honored to hold Senator Kennedy’s seat in the United States Senate, from the state of New York, and have the highest regard for the entire Kennedy family. Thank you.”

Time’s Karen Tumulty noted tonight on the magazine’s political blog that Mrs. Clinton made a similar remark during an interview published in March.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has endorsed Mrs. Clinton, defended her remarks in a telephone interview Friday evening. “I’ve heard her make that argument before,” Mr. Kennedy said, speaking on his cell phone as he drove to the family compound in Hyannis for the holiday weekend. “It sounds like she was invoking a familiar historical circumstance in support of her argument for continuing her campaign.”

Mr. Kennedy said he has been traveling and had not seen the video or read Mrs. Clinton’s comments, but said his support of Mrs. Clinton has not wavered.

But he added that the protracted fight for the Democratic nomination would only last “two more weeks.”

“The candidate’s going to emerge within the next two weeks, and the party will get behind them,” Mr. Kennedy said.

The Clinton campaign sent a statement from Randell Beck, the Argus Leader’s Executive Editor, that sought to provide the context for Mrs. Clinton’s remarks:

The context of the question and answer with Senator Clinton was whether her continued candidacy jeopardized party unity this close to the Democratic convention. Her reference to Mr. Kennedy’s assassination appeared to focus on the timeline of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself.

During the editorial board meeting Friday, Mrs. Clinton also denied reports of any contact with the Obama camp regarding an exit strategy for her, or discussions about becoming Mr. Obama’s running mate.

“It’s flatly, completely untrue,” she said, “It’s not anything I’m entertaining, nothing I have planned, nothing I’m prepared to engaged in.”

But she also said, “I can’t speak for the 17 million people who voted for me and I have a lot of supporters.”

Mrs. Clinton chalked up news accounts of any discussions between her camp and Mr. Obama’s as “part of an ongoing effort to end this before it’s over.”

Well, she apologized for it, at the very least.

ASU2003 · 05-23-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Now granted I admit to having something of an infirm grasp of American politics. Maybe candidates have a shorter life expectancy there. But from what I'm understanding, she has stated that she will stay in the race even though she knows she's pretty much lost, on the hopes that some misfortune (ie assassination) will befall her opponent.

Where's the ambiguity here?

I'm not sure she implied that she wanted him to be assassinated, however that seems to be the way everyone is spinning it.

She just stated the fact, which wasn't the smartest move, but everyone understands that it could happen.

Martian · 05-23-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU2003

I'm not sure she implied that she wanted him to be assassinated, however that seems to be the way everyone is spinning it.

She just stated the fact, which wasn't the smartest move, but everyone understands that it could happen.

Well, no, actually. She went a bit further than that. Stating the fact would be strange in and of itself, but what she did was state the fact in connection with her continuing to run. The implication there is that she is continuing to run because she considers such a thing a possibility and, as we can assume that she wants to win, that she's hoping for it.

I'm not surprised by a politician be selfish and/or callous. I am surprised that people are attempting to defend this.

guyy · 05-23-2008, 09:41 PM

The thought had crossed my mind that the possibility of assassination might be one reason why HRC was sticking around. That said, i don't think she's gained anything in the past 3 months. If something had happened to Obama, and she had dropped out in say, February, she still would have had a much better claim on the nomination than anyone else.

Or, could she be saying this to keep from being put in the VP slot?

I don't think so, because i don't think Obama wants her, but who knows what the party bigwigs have in mind.

host · 05-23-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aladdin Sane

Never dreamed I'd be defending her, but...
I just now saw the videotape, and I fail to see why her comment is a big deal. She was only making the point that she is being told to get out of the race before June, and this call is a historical aberration. To reinforce her point, she reminded her audience that RFK had just won the JUNE 1968 California primary when he was killed. For me, and folks my age, her remark only reminds us that we have witnessed a Democratic primary race lasting into June, and it shouldn't be viewed as unusual.....

P-E-O-P-L-E.... Alladin Sane's is probably the most accurate description of what happened.....what Clinton's intent was.... I was attending one of the final school days of my sophomore year in high school when, while waiting at the bus stop earky on the morning after, a classmate told me that Senator Kennedy had been shot in Los Angeles.

My reaction when I first heard what Clinton said, on radio news, was that she was evoking a memory common to people of our generation, a kind of "short hand"....notice how she made back to back references of the Califfornia primary, the one in the largest state, taking place in a time in the election year that has not even come yet. She used two memories, back to back, to make her point.....her husband's 1992 California primary campaign, and RFK's.

She is trained to make "sound bite", points. She, herself, her daughter, and her husband, have lived in a Secret Service protection "bubble" for 16 years. In 1996, while she lived at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., the Secret Service and it's parent agency, the US Treasury, took the unprecedented step, out of concern for the protection of the white house, to permanently close the closest portion of the avenue to vehicular traffic.

Clinton's comments were obviously meant to evoke a comparison of how early in the contest it actually is, compared to in campaign years most prominent in the collective memory of Clinton and her generation. She used the two examples of this that made the biggest impression on her. Her second example, the one referencing RFK winning in California, and then being shot even as he was declaring that victory, I "got".

I don't like either democratic candidate, but I need to believe both are better than McCain, on their worst day. Everything Clinton says is not "about Obama". This wasn't......trust me.

The reactions of some of you seem absurd to me....alien (to my concerns and ways of thinking)....not well thought out, especially considering that Clinton herself lives an abnormal life in a security "bubble", with the memory of the tendency of her protective detail to err on the over protective side, every day for the past 16 years.

Some of the posted comments seem to come because of a visceral, negativity towards Clinton....thinking the absolute worst about her. She made a mistake, attempting to conjure up a reaction.....to make a strong point within just one sentence. Supporters and ambivalent folks close in age to her, instantly made the connection with what she was trying to get us to picture.

The cost was that those who suspected she is the "anti christ", an opportunist still "sticking around", because she hopes someone will "off" Obama....and then she can step in and take the nomination, think that she has publicly and loudly confirmed their suspicions.

The prime reason that issues like the following one are not dominating the campaign focus, but "Jeremiah Wright", "John Hagee", and the opinions voiced in thread like this are.....I think.... is because it is much easier to wrap your mind, and thus, your post, around a thread topic like this one's, than it is to wrap them around this:

Quote:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...ew_york_ti.php
Interview with The New York Times' Eric Lichtblau
By Paul Kiel - April 3, 2008, 2:24PM
Do we really understand the scope of the administration's warrantless wiretapping program?

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...t_read_292.php

.....Here's the way the whole thing works, according to Gorman: into the NSA's massive database goes data collected by the Justice Department, Department of Homeland Security, and the Department of Treasury. This information includes data about email (recipient and sender address, subject, time sent), internet searches (sites visited and searches conducted), phone calls (incoming and outgoing numbers, length of call, location), financial information (wire transfers, credit-card use, information about bank accounts), and information from the DHS about airline passengers.

Then the NSA's software analyzes this data for indications of terrorist activity. When it hits upon a suspicious pattern, the NSA "feeds its findings into the effort the administration calls the Terrorist Surveillance Program and shares some of that information with other U.S. security agencies.”......

People can't or won't wrap their minds around what the sentences above describe..... some even label it a "paranoid" subject, but the majority of the reactions about a "nothing" incident, are uniformly and comfortably embraced.

WTF ????

Quote:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in520830.shtml

.....But if these notes are accurate, that didn't matter to Rumsfeld.

"Go massive," the notes quote him as saying. "Sweep it all up. Things related and not." ......

P-E-O-P-L-E.... either Hillary or Barak are equally our hope for confirming and reversing the condition of the removal of our right "to be secure in our papers", because we ARE NOT !!!!!!!!!!! Every email address, (and the subject line) you've written to or received messages from, every telephone number, date, time, duration, and every credit card transaction, internet search attempt, and web page visited, are the least of which have been "swept up".

Distractions and suspicions like this thread and almost all of it's posts ain't bringing us closer to retrieving what has been taken from us.

The reaction of unnamed people represented as being close to Obama, in reference to how comments made by Hillary are about Obama, as distributed in a "news" article, are as supportive of your suspicions about Hillary's intent, as you permit them to be.....

Me ???? I want my fucking fourth amendment protection back, god damn it!!!
Why aren't Hillary, Obama, Obama's unnamed aides, and the press talking about that?

pan6467 · 05-23-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

"Pass?" What kind of "passes" have Obama been getting? Quite the opposite, if you ask me...

Really???????

How big of news is it that this messiah, this Saviour, this great soon to be president....... stated there were 57 STATES...... that's right people 57 states in the US of A. Not 50.... last time I counted there were 50.....

Can anyone name the 57 states??????

Here's the link WATCH IT and make excuses for this man then.

YouTube - Obama Claims He's Visited 57 States

A link talking about how no major news agency carried this:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blu...uayles-potatoe

But this says it best:

Quote:

All it takes is one gaffe to taint a Republican for life. The political establishment never let Dan Quayle live down his fateful misspelling of "potatoe." The New York Times distorted and misreported the first President Bush's questions about new scanner technology at a grocers' convention to brand him permanently as out of touch.

But what about Barack Obama? The guy's a perpetual gaffe machine. Let us count the ways, large and small, that his tongue has betrayed him throughout the campaign:

-- Last May, he claimed that tornadoes in Kansas killed a whopping 10,000 people: "In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." The actual death toll: 12.

-- Earlier this month in Oregon, he redrew the map of the United States: "Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go."

-- Last week, in front of a roaring Sioux Falls, S.D., audience, Obama exulted: "Thank you, Sioux City. ... I said it wrong. I've been in Iowa for too long. I'm sorry."

-- Explaining last week why he was trailing Hillary Clinton in Kentucky, Obama again botched basic geography: "Sen. Clinton, I think, is much better known, coming from a nearby state of Arkansas. So it's not surprising that she would have an advantage in some of those states in the middle." On what map is Arkansas closer to Kentucky than Illinois?

-- Obama has as much trouble with numbers as he has with maps. Last March, on the anniversary of the Bloody Sunday march in Selma, Ala., he claimed his parents united as a direct result of the civil rights movement:

"There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Ala., because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born."

Obama was born in 1961. The Selma march took place in 1965. His spokesman, Bill Burton, later explained that Obama was "speaking metaphorically about the civil rights movement as a whole."

-- Earlier this month in Cape Girardeau, Mo., Obama showed off his knowledge of the war in Afghanistan by homing in on a lack of translators:

"We only have a certain number of them, and if they are all in Iraq, then it's harder for us to use them in Afghanistan." The real reason it's "harder for us to use them" in Afghanistan: Iraqis speak Arabic or Kurdish. The Afghanis speak Pashto, Farsi or other non-Arabic languages.

-- Over the weekend in Oregon, Obama pleaded ignorance of the decades-old, multi-billion-dollar massive Hanford nuclear waste cleanup:

"Here's something that you will rarely hear from a politician, and that is that I'm not familiar with the Hanford, uuuuhh, site, so I don't know exactly what's going on there. (Applause.) Now, having said that, I promise you I'll learn about it by the time I leave here on the ride back to the airport."

I assume on that ride, a staffer reminded him that he's voted on at least one defense authorization bill that addressed the "costs, schedules, and technical issues" dealing with the nation's most contaminated nuclear waste site.

-- Last March, the Chicago Tribune reported this little-noticed nugget about a fake autobiographical detail in Obama's "Dreams from My Father":

"Then, there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians."

-- And in perhaps the most seriously troubling set of gaffes of them all, Obama told a Portland crowd over the weekend that Iran doesn't "pose a serious threat to us" -- cluelessly arguing that "tiny countries" with small defense budgets can't do us harm -- and then promptly flip-flopped the next day, claiming, "I've made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave."

Barack Obama -- promoted by the Left and the media as an all-knowing, articulate, transcendent Messiah -- is a walking, talking gaffe machine. How many more passes does he get? How many more can we afford?

Michelle Malkin is author of "Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild." Her e-mail address is malkinblog@gmail.com.

Originally published Friday, May 23, 2008

We read about all these every day..... headlines these are...... demands for clarity are made from all the major news sources........ ummmmmm yeah.

Look at how Bush was teated for his mispronouncing words.... I called him the village idiot..... but Obama makes him look like a Rhodes scholar.

Where is the news coverage of all Obama's gaffes, mistakes and idiotic comments?????????? WHERE?????????

Ohhhh yeah, only from right winged news sources that take all of these out of context..... but Hilary and McCain say something and EVERY news agency jumps on it and makes sure it's blown way out of proportion.

WOW.... I fear for our country.

dc_dux · 05-23-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Really???????

How big of news is it that this messiah, this Saviour, this great soon to be president....... stated there were 57 STATES...... that's right people 57 states in the US of A. Not 50.... last time I counted there were 50.....

....And people want this fucking idiot to be president??????? WOW.... I fear for our country.

Whoa....we need clean up in the Politics aisle...another meltdown!

But thanks for taking out the OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) reference, pan!

BTW, for presidential voting, there are in fact 51 "states"....Washington, DC is counted as a "state" for electoral college voting.

pan6467 · 05-23-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Whoa....we need clean up in the Politics aisle...another meltdown!

But thanks for taking out the OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) reference, pan!

BTW, for presidential voting, there are in fact 51 "states"....Washington, DC is counted as a "state" for electoral college voting.

50 states, 1 district that is a far cry from 57.

No problem..... but now that you mention it...... how many OIC members are there?

dc_dux · 05-23-2008, 11:48 PM

damn...dude.

Im not excusing the flub...but most reasonable people might conclude he meant he visited 47, and as noted in the video, he has one to go..not counting AK and HI.

And if education is your sole criteria for determining qualifications for Pres, I would take a guy who graduated at the top of his Harvard law school class (and was editor of law review) over a guy who graduated in the bottom third of his class at the Naval Academy.

pan6467 · 05-24-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

damn...dude.

Im not excusing the flub...but most reasonable people might conclude he meant he visited 47, and as noted in the video, he has one to go..not counting AK and HI.

And if education is your sole criteria for determining qualifications for Pres, I would take a guy who graduated at the top of his Harvard law school class (and was editor of law review) over a guy who graduated in the bottom third of his class at the Naval Academy.

Ummmmmm unless you were born like ummmmmm I don't know before 1959 and never went to school, read a newspaper, watched tv or travelled.... I can see how maybe you might believe there are only 48 states...... and Michigan and Florida don't count because he didn't campaign in those states....

I think you are truly stretching and trying to find an excuse.

But again, where is the news coverage? That was my point, there slick.

And, no the person I want as president doesn't have to be an overly intelligent man..... but being able to state 50 states, with no need for excuses. Hell, I would want the president to know all 50 states and the majority of state capitols.

And then there are all those other gaffes and misstatements that I have listed that haven't gotten hardly any press at all....... but had it been anyone other than the anointed one, the messiah, the great Saviour, Barack Hussein Obama ..... the press would have jammed each one down our throats until every last one of us had heard about them.

(Oooopsie please forgive me, I used his middle name.)

BTW again, how many countries are in the OIC?

dc_dux · 05-24-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Hell, I would want the president to know all 50 states and the majority of state capitols.

BTW again, how many countries are in the OIC?

Capitols are buildings.....cities are capitals.

And there are 57 muslim nations in the OIC....and I am not surprised that rightwing rags (and you) would suggest some hidden meaning in Obama's slip.

If he wins, do you believe he will take the oath of office on a Koran or that he is secretly a muslim and stopped wearing a flag pin because of some muslim belief?

Its this kind of bullshit that he, unlike other candidates, has to encounter at every stop.

host · 05-24-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

damn...dude.

Im not excusing the flub...but most reasonable people might conclude he meant he visited 47, and as noted in the video, he has one to go..not counting AK and HI.

And if education is your sole criteria for determining qualifications for Pres, I would take a guy who graduated at the top of his Harvard law school class (and was editor of law review) over a guy who graduated in the bottom third of his class at the Naval Academy.

Quote:

Early in his speech, Obama misspoke about the number of states he had visited.

"It is just wonderful to be back in Oregon and over the last 15 months we have traveled to every corner of the United States. I have now been in 57 states," he said to a smattering of laughter in the crowd. "I think one left to go. One left to go - Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."

_dux, the talking points framing this on salem talk radio was, "Here is Obama when he is tired....he doesn't even notice he has misspoken and that the crowd is laughing at him"....a president cannot "get tired" or be off his mark in crisis.....(Remember the look on the decider's face as he sat paralyzed in the classroom with the Pet Goat book in his hand?)...and "what kind of a president admits that his staff tell him where he can and cannot go?"

I have to agree with pan.....some of the posts here seem so invested in Obama the phenomenon, the larger than life figure, who, despite a generally hostile press treatment, soldiers on....to unity and victory in a new age of racial and political harmony.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Capitols are buildings.....cities are capitals.

And there are 57 muslim nations in the OIC....and I am not surprised that rightwing rags (and you) would suggest some hidden meaning in Obama's slip.

If he wins, do you believe he will take the oath of office on a Koran or that he is secretly a muslim and stopped wearing a flag pin because of some muslim belief?

Its this kind of bullshit that he, unlike other candidates, has to encounter at every stop.

whoa, _dux....kinda harsh, especially since Abaya's "pass, what pass" post was ripe for pan's response. I don't expect you're wearing a set of patented Obama blinders, too?

dc_dux · 05-24-2008, 12:32 AM

host..I think I am grounded in reality and understand how the rightwing hacks will play up every Obama miscomment....and as i noted, how he has to deal with questions of his patriotism and religion at every stop.

That hasnt detracted from the millions of new voters that he will bring to the election this year...something that neither Clinton nor McCain can match.

What I really look forward to are the possibility of McCain-Obama unmoderated town meetings (as proposed by McCain and accepted by Obama) and the moderated debates.

abaya · 05-24-2008, 01:34 AM

Just FYI (although I see this thread has already degenerated in the direction I expected), if Clinton somehow gets the nomination, I'll fuckin' vote for her. However, that doesn't mean I can't still be critical of her mistakes as a candidate. I am an Obama supporter first and a Democrat voter next, at least when it comes to this election. But I still find it appalling that Hillary, so carefully schooled in the art of soundbites, made such a grievous error.

host · 05-24-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Just FYI (although I see this thread has already degenerated in the direction I expected), if Clinton somehow gets the nomination, I'll fuckin' vote for her. However, that doesn't mean I can't still be critical of her mistakes as a candidate. I am an Obama supporter first and a Democrat voter next, at least when it comes to this election. But I still find it appalling that Hillary, so carefully schooled in the art of soundbites, made such a grievous error.

abaya, what motivated you to embrace your conclusion so strongly that you also created and structured this thread, in the manner that you did?

Isn't there enough of this issueless "stuff" coming from the other side?

Consider what a difference two days and a sound bite from Clinton made on the opinion of this pundit:

Quote:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com...obama_does_it/

Obama Does It!
By M.J. Rosenberg - May 21, 2008, 6:55AM
Watching Obama last night, I had to shake myself. As he said, it's been a long road since Iowa. And he's not President yet.

Nonetheless, it is fitting to think about the amazing victory he has already won. Barring accident (God knows this is a violent country so that caveat is always in order), the Democratic party is going to nominate a black man for President of the United States.....

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com...usbut_rfk_was/

Hillary Reminds Us.....RFK Was Assassinated in June
By M.J. Rosenberg - May 23, 2008, 4:20PM
Sometimes there is simply nothing one can say. Words simply fail me....

Why are you more upset by Clinton's remarks than the republican sympathizer, Randall Beck, an eyewitness to Clinton's statement and it's context, and RFK Jr., the son of the assaasination victim who Clinton referred to?

Quote:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/r.../view/?id=7807
5/23/2008
Statement from the Argus Leader
The Argus Leader’s Executive Editor Randell Beck issued the following statement today:

"The context of the question and answer with Sen. Clinton was whether her continued candidacy jeopardized party unity this close to the Democratic convention. Her reference to Mr. Kennedy's assassination appeared to focus on the timeline of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself."

Quote:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...clinton24.html

......It was in the context of discussions about her political future that Clinton made the remarks Friday, in a meeting with the editorial board of The Sioux Falls (S.D.) Argus Leader. She had said some people whom she did not name were trying to push her out of the race, but she noted that many races have gone on longer than hers........

...Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, said her statement "was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign.".....

....Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has endorsed Clinton, defended her remarks in a telephone interview Friday evening.

"I've heard her make that argument before," Kennedy said. "It sounds like she was invoking a familiar historical circumstance in support of her argument for continuing her campaign."

What influenced Bill Burton to say anything at all? He makes a condemnation of Clinton, of behalf of the Obama campaign, based on.....what? Isn't it on the spin of third parties who have interpreted what Clinton said, but who were not present?

We don't need to do this. What is the point of it? We are united in our goal of voting out the republican control of the executive branch, in 2008.

Both democratic candidates have battled to the point of exhaustion. I think we agree that Hillary can blame no one more than herself for her present, almost hopeless position.

Obama has run a better campaign, is more likeable, more exciting, and seems like he is going to win the nomination. I see no need for the negative gesture I perceive in doing thiis thread. I couild have doen a "57 States" thread, but that's something for the other side to feature.

I heard the sound bite, with Obama saying it like he meant it....I decided that he was tired....that's it....not unpresidential, just tired from campaigning. I'm not anti-Obama.....I'm impressed by him, but not inspired, and I am worried that he can't beat McCain, and I've posted why.

I think that Clinton has a better chance of beating McCain. I've posted why. Let's agree to leave it to the other side to attack both Obama and Clinton, and to vote in November for whoever is the democratic candidate running against McCain. Deal?

Tully Mars · 05-24-2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Just FYI (although I see this thread has already degenerated in the direction I expected), if Clinton somehow gets the nomination, I'll fuckin' vote for her. However, that doesn't mean I can't still be critical of her mistakes as a candidate. I am an Obama supporter first and a Democrat voter next, at least when it comes to this election. But I still find it appalling that Hillary, so carefully schooled in the art of soundbites, made such a grievous error.

I agree with you. I think her remark was completely out of line. She's been pushing this "he might get assassinated" BS for a while now. I find it kind odd the press gave her a pass for so long. But if given the choice between Hillary and McCain I'd have to hold my nose and vote for her.

I see a big difference between repeatedly bringing up RFK's assassination as one reason you'd continue in a mathematically impossible battle and gaffing one time on the number of states. Seriously when you start adding up the number of actual primary votes I'm not so sure you couldn't end up with 57. Let's see 50 states, plus D.C. then add in American Sonoma, Expats abroad, Guam and their voting and campaigning today in Puerto Rico. That's get you to 55 primaries, just off the top of my head perhaps I'm missing two? I don't know and granted they're not all states, but they all have votes in the primary. I see this a lot less of issue then Hillary's repeated inappropriate remarks.

Edit:

I forgot about the US Virgin Islands. They held a primary right? That brings the total to 56. If the Northern Mariana Islands, another US commonwealth, also holds/held a primary then you have 57.

Derwood · 05-24-2008, 04:39 AM

i'm way more offended by her fudging the facts about her husband's nomination. he had that puppy all but wrapped up in March

ASU2003 · 05-24-2008, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

50 states, 1 district that is a far cry from 57.

Maybe he made a mistake and spoke to soon about his plan to take over Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, Iraq, Afghanistan, Mexico and Canada

and make them into states.

ottopilot · 05-24-2008, 06:50 AM

Aren't there 57 Islamic states?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

pan6467 · 05-24-2008, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

Aren't there 57 Islamic states?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

There's also Heinz 57..... maybe he thought he was John Kerry.

Tully Mars · 05-24-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU2003

Maybe he made a mistake and spoke to soon about his plan to take over Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, Iraq, Afghanistan, Mexico and Canada

and make them into states.

The US seems to be already working on Iraq and Afghan. And the they took nearly half, if not more(?), of Mexico years ago. Also there's a reason they're called the "US" Virgin Islands. Plus we already have Puerto Rico, Guam and the Northern Marianas'. So, that just leaves Canada. Once the removal of oil from shale is perfected... Well, I'll let you do your own math on that one.

dc_dux · 05-24-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

.....So, that just leaves Canada.

"War Plan -Red"...from the 1930s and declassified in the 70s.

Quote:

Invading Canada won't be like invading Iraq: When we invade Canada, nobody will be able to grumble that we didn't have a plan.

The United States government does have a plan to invade Canada. It's a 94-page document called "Joint Army and Navy Basic War Plan -- Red," with the word SECRET stamped on the cover. It's a bold plan, a bodacious plan, a step-by-step plan to invade, seize and annex our neighbor to the north.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...901412_pf.html

Hillary can stand on the tarmac at Toronto airport and claim how dangerous it was to face incoming mortar fire.
("I remember landing under sniper fire...")

And McCain can walk the streets of Montreal..proclaiming it safe, while wearing a flack jacket and being surrounded by armed US guards in humvees. ("..you can walk the streets of Baghdad safely.")

ottopilot · 05-24-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

There's also Heinz 57..... maybe he thought he was John Kerry.

I think "57" is really the spirit of some lost soul being channeled by limousine-liberal presidential candidates. There may be actual evidence.

Here's the classic Dukakis "Beetle Bailey" picture.

Now here is a picture that was taken from that same photo-shoot recently featured on SciFi's Ghost Hunters.

Did you notice the eerie image appearing in place of Micheal Dukakis's face? Is it a coincidence?

Perhaps the curse will finally be lifted ... like for the Boston Red Sox. Very mysterious.

amonkie · 05-24-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Caucus

“People have been trying to push me out of this ever since Iowa,” where she came in third, behind Mr. Obama and former Senator John Edwards, Mrs. Clinton said.

To me...the President is supposed to be elected by the will of the people. If people are pushing her out... you'd think she'd be aware that maybe people don't want her as President. You can't become president just because you want the title, despite the lack of national support - We're not a Divine Right country.

Maybe she's just not willing to become British to be the next Queen Elizabeth.

Strange Famous · 05-24-2008, 03:34 PM

What a disaster for the Democrat party this woman is.

It is getting to the point that it actually seems she is working for the Republicans. She seems determined to damage the movement and the party as much as she can, even at her own expense.

She has no path to victory for at least a month, but still she is here slinging mud at the Democrat candidate.

Quote:

US presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton has apologised for remarks about Robert Kennedy's 1968 assassination as she defended her continuing nomination bid.

Senator Clinton said she had been attempting to point out that previous campaigns had also continued into June.

Democrat Robert Kennedy was running for his party's presidential nomination when he was shot dead in June 1968.

A spokesman for rival Democrat hopeful Barack Obama, whose safety has been an unspoken issue, criticised the remark.

Spokesman Bill Burton called the comments "unfortunate" and said they had "no place in this campaign".

The comments came in a meeting Mrs Clinton was having with the editorial board of the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader newspaper.

Responding to those who had called on her to withdraw from the Democratic Party's presidential race, Mrs Clinton said: "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June... We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it."

Mrs Clinton has made similar comments before, in March, without drawing criticism.

But analysts say the remarks could be damaging given the sensitivities over political assassinations, and fears for the safety of her rival - who began receiving Secret Service protection months before the primary campaign began.

The New York senator later expressed her regret at any offence her comments may have caused.

"I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation - and in particular the Kennedy family - was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever."

In the race for the Democratic nomination, Mr Obama has so far won more of the delegates who will choose the party's candidate at a National Convention in August.

He is now just 56 delegates short of the number needed to clinch the nomination.

The next contest will be a primary in the US territory of Puerto Rico on 1 June, before the final two votes take place in Montana and South Dakota on 3 June.

SecretMethod70 · 05-24-2008, 04:07 PM

The 57 state thing was very clearly an example of misspeaking. There are only a few options here: 1) Obama actually thinks there are 57 states (one would have to be as much of an idiot as they apparently think Obama is in order to believe this, considering his educational background (graduated top of Harvard Law) as well as career background (professor of constitutional law at another prestigious law school, University of Chicago)), 2) Obama let slip that he he's a secret Islamic plant (in which case, one would have to be a major conspiracy theorist and probably even more of an idiot than in option 1, and 3) Obama was tired, meant to say 47 (which fits perfectly with having one more state to go, not counting AK and HI), and said 57 instead. It's amusing that he didn't notice his mistake - well worth a joke or two on The Daily Show - but nothing more.

Pan: There's really no sense in anyone here going through each of Michelle Malkin's points one by one. You've reached a point now where you're quoting someone who is so far on the right wing fringe that John McCain is completely ignoring her, even while pursuing (and, to his minor credit, eventually rejecting) such crazies as John Hagee. Now think about that: John McCain thinks Hagee is more worth his time than Michelle Malkin. Fox News Commentator and frequent O'Reilly Factor guest Geraldo Rivera dislikes her so much that he said he'd spit on her if they were in the same city. That's how crazy she is.

And if that doesn't drive the point home enough:

Quote:

Dunkin’ Dumbasses
By: SilentPatriot on Saturday, May 24th, 2008 at 4:31 PM - PDT

(title borrowed from John Cole.)

File this under: “we now know why McCain is ignoring Michelle Malkin.”

A new Dunkin Donuts ad featuring Rachel Ray sporting a tattered white scarf has the wingnuts in a tizzy, with Michelle Malkin leading the charge. You have to be deranged to see this ad and come to the conclusion that Rachel Ray is a secret Yasser Arafat-loving, terrorist-sympathizing threat who must be stopped for the sake of civilization. Take a glimpse with me into the warped mind of a lunatic fringer:

Michelle Malkin - Of donuts and dumb celebrities:

Is Ray’s blunder worth boycotting DD over? I’ll be interested to hear the company’s take. At this point, I’m going to give the management the benefit of the doubt. They have braved boycott threats and attacks over their lonely, principled stance against illegal immigration. Given their pro-rule of law, America first position, I highly doubt the executive offices are filled with moonbats who endorse Ray’s keffiyeh chic.

Charles Johnson @ Little Green Footballs - Mainstreaming Terrorism to Sell Donuts:

I didn’t believe this story when people first started emailing about it; but sure enough, its true. Dunkin Donuts, the venerable old fried dough seller, is the latest American firm to casually promote the symbol of Palestinian terrorism and the intifada, the kaffiyeh, via Rachael Ray: Dunkin’ Breakfast Choices.

Pam Geller, when shes not demanding Obama be drug tested (seriously) - Rachel Ray, Dunkin Donuts Jihad Tool:

Have you seen Rachel Ray wearing the icon of Yasser Arfatbastard and the bloody Islamic jihad. This is part of the cultural jihad.

John McCain may have terrible judgment when it comes to war and lobbyists, but he’s got Malkin figured out just right.

You'll have to forgive me for not thinking anything Michelle Malkin says is worth my time or effort.

Shauk · 05-24-2008, 10:09 PM

I'd hit it.

wait, what? oh crap, politics! RUN!

05-23-2008, 01:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Wow. I can't believe those words came out of her mouth. I think even Stewie Griffin would say that was in bad taste. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

05-23-2008, 02:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	um... yeah. up to this point, i had exercised no originality whatsoever and imagined that an obama/clinton ticket would be a very good thing. i still think it would be, but a bit less so. now i'm thinking about bulworth. i think that having warren beatty rap the last quarter of the film was maybe the last thing as stupid as this remark that didn't emanate from that special quadrant of stupid that we all know and love so, the "i know what it's like to put food on your family" place. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

05-23-2008, 02:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	Never dreamed I'd be defending her, but... I just now saw the videotape, and I fail to see why her comment is a big deal. She was only making the point that she is being told to get out of the race before June, and this call is a historical aberration. To reinforce her point, she reminded her audience that RFK had just won the JUNE 1968 California primary when he was killed. For me, and folks my age, her remark only reminds us that we have witnessed a Democratic primary race lasting into June, and it shouldn't be viewed as unusual. Of course, I actually hope she takes it all the way to the August convention in Denver. Watching the Dems rip the hide off each other makes this old conservative smile... __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

05-23-2008, 03:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	I rate it as only the second stupidest political comment of the week. The winner.....someone at the Calif. Campaign for Children and Families following the Cal Supreme Court ruling that county clerks must begin to issue same sex marriage licenses: Ask your county clerk if they were a Nazi officer during WWII and had been ordered to gas the Jews, would they? At the Nuremberg trials, they would have been convicted of murder for following this immoral order. And a close third behind Hillary....Mike Huckabee when hearing a loud bang off stage while speaking at a McCain event: "That was Barack Obama," Huckabee quipped, "He Just tripped off a chair. He was getting ready to speak. Somebody aimed a gun at him and he…he dove for the floor." __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire

05-23-2008, 03:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Incidentally, it was not an "off the cuff" remark. She made the same, exact reference back in March, in an interview with Time magazine. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

05-23-2008, 01:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	She just let it slip that she's going to have Obama offed in June.

05-23-2008, 02:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	I saw that and couldn't believe it myself. Regardless of her intentions or how her people try to spin it there was no way she could invoke Bobby Kennedy in a manner that wouldn't come off horribly wrong.

05-23-2008, 02:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	"I'll still run because if someone murders Obama I'll get to be president." Kinda tasteless.

05-23-2008, 03:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
loquitur Junkie Location: NYC	I can't imagine she meant she was hoping for Obama to get killed. I understood that to mean that anything can happen, look at history. Doesn't she get the same pass Obama does for "boneheaded" remarks? If not, why not? (I suspect it's because she pissed off a lot of the press and this is how they take their institutional revenge.)

05-23-2008, 09:41 PM	#17 (permalink)
guyy Addict Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin	The thought had crossed my mind that the possibility of assassination might be one reason why HRC was sticking around. That said, i don't think she's gained anything in the past 3 months. If something had happened to Obama, and she had dropped out in say, February, she still would have had a much better claim on the nomination than anyone else. Or, could she be saying this to keep from being put in the VP slot? I don't think so, because i don't think Obama wants her, but who knows what the party bigwigs have in mind.

05-23-2008, 11:48 PM	#22 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	damn...dude. Im not excusing the flub...but most reasonable people might conclude he meant he visited 47, and as noted in the video, he has one to go..not counting AK and HI. And if education is your sole criteria for determining qualifications for Pres, I would take a guy who graduated at the top of his Harvard law school class (and was editor of law review) over a guy who graduated in the bottom third of his class at the Naval Academy. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 05-23-2008 at 11:51 PM..

05-24-2008, 12:32 AM	#26 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	host..I think I am grounded in reality and understand how the rightwing hacks will play up every Obama miscomment....and as i noted, how he has to deal with questions of his patriotism and religion at every stop. That hasnt detracted from the millions of new voters that he will bring to the election this year...something that neither Clinton nor McCain can match. What I really look forward to are the possibility of McCain-Obama unmoderated town meetings (as proposed by McCain and accepted by Obama) and the moderated debates. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 05-24-2008 at 12:35 AM..

05-24-2008, 01:34 AM	#27 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Just FYI (although I see this thread has already degenerated in the direction I expected), if Clinton somehow gets the nomination, I'll fuckin' vote for her. However, that doesn't mean I can't still be critical of her mistakes as a candidate. I am an Obama supporter first and a Democrat voter next, at least when it comes to this election. But I still find it appalling that Hillary, so carefully schooled in the art of soundbites, made such a grievous error. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

05-24-2008, 04:39 AM	#30 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	i'm way more offended by her fudging the facts about her husband's nomination. he had that puppy all but wrapped up in March

05-24-2008, 06:50 AM	#32 (permalink)
ottopilot let me be clear Location: Waddy Peytona	Aren't there 57 Islamic states? Sorry, couldn't help myself. __________________ "It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

05-24-2008, 10:09 PM	#40 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	I'd hit it. wait, what? oh crap, politics! RUN!