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Notices |
View Poll Results: The statement "Bush is the worsts thing since Hitler" is: | |||
Out of line | 13 | 52.00% | |
True, but still out of line | 1 | 4.00% | |
True, and not out of line | 9 | 36.00% | |
False, Bush is WORSE than Hitler | 2 | 8.00% | |
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll |
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03-13-2008, 10:31 AM | #41 (permalink) | |
Location: Iceland
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/nothing else constructive to add that hasn't already been said, sorry.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
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03-13-2008, 10:37 AM | #42 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Detroit, MI
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Smoke a bowl and go read The Hairy Ape or something. |
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03-13-2008, 10:37 AM | #43 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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1) Hitler was bad for the US. 2) Hitler's effect was at this given time. 3) Since said given time, Bush is the worst thing. I don't see any problems with that. Quote:
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03-13-2008, 10:42 AM | #44 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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Will, you could compare Bush to Nixon much more profitably, and even that one would be a stretch. Or Carter, who was a bit like Nixon but without the felonies. He actually might be most like Emperor Paul of Russia, except that Paul got assassinated and his wife, Catherine the Great, took over the throne. And we know what happened to her, don't we...........
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03-13-2008, 11:22 AM | #45 (permalink) | |
Lover - Protector - Teacher
Location: Seattle, WA
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I'm very well versed in English, I have a very logical emotional process and yet I still don't think that blaming the receiver for misunderstanding what you've said is fair or responsible. Words get a lot of people in trouble when they think that it's "not my responsibility to make sure I'm understood."
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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel |
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03-13-2008, 11:31 AM | #46 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I don't think so. |
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03-13-2008, 12:58 PM | #52 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I have to say I like Scotch but I make it a point to find microbrews when I travel and try out the local brews. Last night I was drinking some nice German style Hefes.
I've been at a conference all day so I haven't been able to respond but I'm with Will on this one. "Since" implies that Bush is not as bad as Hitler but does imply he is worse than anything since then..... As for 9/11, I believe Bushes reaction to 9/11 and what he has had us doing since then has been far worse than the initial act itself. Had a wiser person been in the Whitehouse at the time the world as a whole could be a lot better off. |
03-13-2008, 01:25 PM | #54 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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5 - All of the above
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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03-13-2008, 01:35 PM | #55 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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03-13-2008, 01:40 PM | #56 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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The Hitler comparison served only as a distraction. I think a better OP would have been to ask the question:
Have the Bush policies of the last eight years resulted in the greatest US loss of credibility and influence around the world in the recent (post WW II) history of our nation?IMO, the answer is a resounding YES.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
03-13-2008, 01:42 PM | #57 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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About all this 'since' business. I don't think I'm stupid, but when I think about bad things that have happened to 'this country' I don't think Hitler. Hence, the statement in the OP seems heavy-handed. Like Hitler was being used for effect. If it were being used solely as a chronological marker, it would have made more sense to use our president at that time.
I would possibly stand behind the statement: Bush is the worst thing to happen to this world since Hitler. But I would have to give the matter some serious thought.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-13-2008, 01:44 PM | #58 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
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On the one hand you talk about being "smarter than everyone else" and so you choose NOT to "baby talk" so everyone else can understand you. Yet, here is the crux of the problem at hand. Rekna used the word "since" in a way that is not particularly accepted except in lazy speech or vernacular. Then a whole shitload of interpretations ensued. Wonder why? It's not that I disagree with the SENTIMENT of the original phrase ... but I didn't think we were discussing that issue. I thought the debate was over whether the phrase was accurate in LANGUAGE not IDEA. Rekna even corroborated it: Quote:
The word "since" didn't imply anything ... THE SPEAKER implied the idea. But that's where the barrier is ... a speaker should not IMPLY anything but rather spell it out exactly. When you IMPLY something you should not be upset when those around you don't understand the implication. They have their own pre-conceived notions about the language and thus react within their own understanding. I can't be sure that it was a bar full of neocons ... but if this thread is any indication as to the demographics then I'm pretty sure it wasn't. I'm not a neocon by any stretch of the imagination and I disagree with the original statement. |
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03-13-2008, 02:44 PM | #61 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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03-13-2008, 03:18 PM | #64 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Besides, I can't compare a non-fiction character (MLK) with one that I believe to be fictional (the Legend of Jesus). Whether or not there was an actual man called Jesus to whom all this NT Christianity is attributed is up in the air for me (and a topic for another post). I suppose you could have said, "The teachings of Martin Luther King are the most profound since the teachings of Jesus." Furthermore, with regard to MLK and Jesus as people, there is no "IS" ... only "WAS." |
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03-14-2008, 06:17 AM | #65 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Unfortunately, in todays wishy washy and apathetically fearful society, none of this will ever happen. Quote:
and just to make sure nobody misses it. Quote:
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 03-14-2008 at 06:23 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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03-14-2008, 07:34 AM | #66 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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FWIW, I found these on a site called lolpresident. Enjoy!!<br><br>
<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> |
03-14-2008, 09:55 AM | #67 (permalink) | |
let me be clear
Location: Waddy Peytona
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Saying that Bush is worst for America since Hitler draws a back-handed comparison of the two. Why not say "since WWII" if it's what you really mean? ...it still wouldn't be true. Were you not backpedaling to avoid drunken criticism? If it's something really believe, stand up for your beliefs. Bush isn't the best ever ... thank goodness for the hard work of our House and Senate. Always vigilant, incorruptible, marshaling the people's mandate.
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"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo |
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03-14-2008, 09:58 AM | #68 (permalink) |
Psycho
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Let me cast a "False, but not out of line" vote. There have certainly been worse leaders than Bush since Hitler (maybe not a worse American President, but I don't think that was the question). However, I wouldn't call the comment out of line because I don't assume that most people actually mean it when they say such things and even if they do it is almost entirely unlikely that they did the research to back up such an opinion. If the comment is meant as to analogize the relative badness of awful world leaders then I suppose that is a valid opinion, though the one I don't agree with. Bush is awful, and some may consider him evil I suppose (though I wouldn't take it that far), but Hitler and other leaders since have been intentionally, maliciously, and truly evil in a category all together separate from any terrible results that were birthed by Bush.
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"The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751 |
03-14-2008, 10:52 AM | #69 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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The statement asserts that nobody SINCE Hitler has been worse for America than George Bush is. But that the comparison ENDS with Hitler, since Hitler was WORSE. That's actually what the WORDS MEAN. |
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03-14-2008, 11:13 AM | #70 (permalink) | ||||
Lover - Protector - Teacher
Location: Seattle, WA
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__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel |
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03-14-2008, 11:33 AM | #71 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Term limits would really have meaning.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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03-14-2008, 11:48 AM | #72 (permalink) | |
Ambling Toward the Light
Location: The Early 16th Century
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SQL query SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 Zero rows returned.... |
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03-14-2008, 12:09 PM | #73 (permalink) | |
let me be clear
Location: Waddy Peytona
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Quote:
__________________
"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo |
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03-14-2008, 01:49 PM | #74 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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03-14-2008, 02:48 PM | #75 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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And that said, I do realize that what was said was an off-hand comment in a bar and not a calculated statement. If I had a nickel for everytime I said something and later wished I had said it differently I'd...well, I'd have a shitload of nickels.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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03-14-2008, 04:07 PM | #76 (permalink) |
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
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First of all, fohpah? If you don't know, google is your friend.
Second, I've totally got Will's back in the literal interpretation that the remark uses Hitler as a chronological marker. Turn off your kneejerk for a moment, and observe my handy visual aid: This is an awesome graph of bad things that have happened to America over time. Here are some true things you can say about this graph: Bush is the worst thing for this country since Adolf Hitler Bush is the worst thing for this country since Hippies Hitler is the worst thing for this country since Great Depression Hippies were the worst thing for this country since Hitler (until Bush) etc etc. All that statement means is "Starting immediately after Event B, there is nothing worse than event A for our country". It doesn't give you any relative measure of badness between events A and B. edit: Holy crap, thread has moved significantly since last page. Why didn't I see it was two pages? Feel free to disregard.
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twisted no more Last edited by telekinetic; 03-14-2008 at 04:10 PM.. |
03-15-2008, 03:16 AM | #79 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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03-15-2008, 03:40 AM | #80 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Quote:
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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