Liquor Dealer

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89306,00.html

TEHRAN, Iran — Pro-clergy militants on motorcycles chased down protesters and beat them with clubs early Friday, the third night of anti-government demonstrations in Tehran, witnesses said.

The student-led protests were aimed at Iran's hard-line clerics, who control the security forces and are locked in a power struggle with reformist President Mohammad Khatami

Hundreds of young Iranians, many in their teens, took to the streets around Tehran University and the Laleh hotel, formerly called the Intercontinental, about a mile away, witnesses said. The protesters denounced the country's supreme leader, hard-liner Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

"Khamenei, the traitor, must be hanged!" they chanted, according to witnesses. Criticism of Khamenei is usually punished by imprisonment, and public calls for his death had been unheard of until this week.

In some parts of Tehran, activists who support the clergy-led regime circled knots of student protesters, gunning their motorcycle engines and, according to some witnesses, using cattle prods.

Some of the demonstrators fought back, punching the attackers and setting their motorcycles on fire.

The unrest subsided by daybreak, and few injuries were reported. One pro-government activist was admitted to a hospital with a stab wound but the injury was not life-threatening, according to Shariati Hospital staff.

At times, riot police prevented the government supporters from confronting the protesters and did not respond to stone throwing, witnesses said. At other times, police rushed the protesters, sending them fleeing into the darkness.

The pro-Khamenei activists chanted: "Oh, exalted leader, we are ready to follow your instructions!"

Thousands of people looked on, sometimes clapping with the protesters and taking up their chants. Residents near the university hospital left their doors open so demonstrators could find quick shelter if the authorities moved in.


Looks as if one of the terrorist nations might be in the mood to change on it's own - I remember hearing one of those lying Republicans say that there was a good possibility that a regime change in Iraq would lead to this type of thing.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Sparhawk

This has been developing since before Khatami was elected president. The huge step back was in adding Iran to the 'Axis of Evil'. I'm glad to see that we've recovered ground since then.

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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

The_Dude

it's been going on for a long time, led by students.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

seretogis

I don't think that Bushy's boys ever really considered an all-out military strike to topple Iran, just supporting the already-brewing dissention and hopefully guiding it to a more democratic system.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

geep

So what you're saying then is that the U.S. is inciting these students to riot?

reconmike

People want freedom. If they see change close to them they want it also. There really is no need to incite anything.

It all comes down to how badly you want freedom.

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Peetster

Much of the Irani populace my age were educated in the US. They remember what it was like to have freedom, and they are just about fed up with this bull. I hope that when change comes, it comes swiftly, or it will be the students that defeat the change and buy into the whole fundamental Islam thing. That's who Sadam used when he siezed power.

manalone

It's good that they learn freedom in the US, since that was the country responsible for removing the potential for freedom in Iran.

It was the Us which installed the hated shah after the legitimate elections.

It's a pity. The West will only support democracy where it's "our kind" of democracy. That prevents the natural evolution of society and hands the Muslim world to extremists.

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Man Alone
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Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.

Liquor Dealer

Is there anyone that posts on this board that doesn't hate the United States?

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

reconmike

If feel the same way LD, I think we have alot of these people on the boards.

__________________
Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Phaenx

I wouldn't mind those people so much if they could just tell me one thing: "I like America." At least then I could decide whether or not they're worth listening to.

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"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

The_Dude

look, just because somebody criticizes a certain area of foreign polciy doesnt make them hate america.

people criticizing actually love this nation and are trying to make it better and fairer.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Sun Tzu

Wasnt it students that took hostages years back? Was that just a small faction under Iatola Khomeini?

I read a similiar article a few days ago. I cant say this is bad news. If Iran became a self evolved democracy it would certainly make things more interesting.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Pacifier

I actually like this USA. I love some of the movies you make. I have a couple of firends there and im visiting the states in a few weeks.

But what I dont like is the US-goverment. And the people who think its either love all or hate all. Who think the world is black and white, who think the their goverment never ever makes an error and acts for the greater good while all other goverments act only to protect their economical interests. who love their nation so much that they dont want to see the errors and mistakes. who belivers everything their goverment tells them, no matter how stupid it sounds.

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"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Liquor Dealer

Dude. There has not been a single thing about this country that a large number of you have not belittled, smeared, and expressed total contempt for. You do not love a nation which you can find absolutely positively nothing good. You do not love a nation when you express nothing but contempt toward its leadership. What has been expressed on this board for the past few months is not love, it is not respect, it is nothing but hate and discontent. You express a desire to change our government by going to the polls and voting. You express respect for our government by supporting leaders who are doing their best to run this country as they think is the best. Leadership in our nation has shown the best and the worst of the American political system in the past few months. Many states are facing financial shortfalls because of the slow economy. Leadership in many states has tightened its belt and found ways to compensate . That is the good of the American political system. To go to the other extreme you can look at your and mine homestate of Texas. The incident in Texas regarding the minority party leaving because of a redistricting issue was not only immature on the part of those legislators, it made then look like total asses. Our country was designed to be flexible, to adapt, not to run off and hide in another state - that is nothing but an expression of contempt.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Simple_Min

So, the country is designed to be flexible, but not flexible enough for criticism? Grow up and realize criticism does not mean hate for a country. What the hell would be the point of "hating" America? Is there something better that "promises" certain freedoms?

I think not. Rather then trying to hate your enemies, the democrats, try and come to realize their concerns. But from the past discussions with you that idea seems too human-like for you.

Edit: What exactly does it mean to "like America"?

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Liquor Dealer

Criticism is one thing. What has been posted is far from criticism, it has been outright contempt. If you have to ask what do I mean by "like America", you'd never understand my answer. Hate Democrats? No, I even voted for a Democrat for governor. We don't hate political parties - we simply don't care for the exrtemes on either side. If you are referring to what happened in Texas - those people should never have been in government at any level - leaders lead - they don't run.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Simple_Min

Well, let's leave that up to me to decide if I do not understand your profoundly radical "americanism". I would like to see why you do not consider our type of people "american".

By the way I agree with you on the exteremism issue. The whole point of everything is to walk in the middle while being careful not to trample on someone to get where you are going.

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

seretogis

I do not love or hate America. I dislike the end-goals of both the Democratic and Republican parties which run it. There is no better country in the world, imo.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Phaenx

That's a dubious way of showing it, doing it in the fashion they are raises questions. People who never have anything positive to say about America, people who wish bad things on our troops to make the president look bad, dubious things. Do you like America Dude?

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

Simple_Min

How about people who send the troops into danger without any rhyme or reason? How about those people. I guess Dr. King was a anti american for not having anything positive to say about Vietnam war and trying to stand up for civil liberties? He must have been a communist. I suppose that's why he was murdered because he wasn't patriotic enough.

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And Sertegois, I agree that this is the best place to live. Though I envy the European Social market economy system. Oh well can't have everything.

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

seretogis

The problem in the US is not with capitalism, it's that corporate responsibility is a joke to many CEOs.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

geep

In a democracy, whether one likes what their government does or not does not release them from the fact that they are responsible for it. It's far easier to complain than to do something to change the way government behaves. Even the "America Haters" cannot shed the responsibility for what the U.S. is because it is a product of their opinion, too. Bashing it for what it is makes you nothing more than someone who hates. Working hard to change the minds of your fellow citizens supports the democratic process and is what this country stands for. If your opinion runs against the will of the people, then you must simply work harder to change their opinion.

Dr. King worked to change public opinion, not just criticize the country. That is the difference between someone like Martin Luther King and the average member of the "Blame America First" crowd. I think you can love America for what it is and not for the people who make up it's policy.

Oddly enough, isn't that what the students in Iran are trying to do? Aren't they trying to take responsibilty for what their government is and change it?

Simple_Min

Then do some research about media/official/right wing responses to rallies and civil disobedience practiced by American citizens. Other than that, I agree. Anyone can talk the talk.

Let's focus on this community. Who's bashing? And who's criticizing for change? Unfortunately, to change public opinion, you must take a stand against one part or another of the government's policy...or else what is the point of criticisms.

This so called "Blame America first" crowd also uses peaceful protest and civil disobedience. Putting such a label on the group is unfair. Who else is there to blame? Are we to blame Canada for the problems here at home? Of course it's "Blame America". That's the foundation of our country. Checks and balances.

That's great. But it is American influenced propaganda. And we've seen in the past and recently how well American installed "democratic" governments are.

The real defenders of democracy are those who accept and utilize all view points and not simply supress it. Anti Government does not make me Anti America. America is more than these crooked curropt rich powerful men who above all else want more power.

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.