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View Poll Results: Is there something going on that we don't know about?
Yes, definitely. The facts don't fit. 18 60.00%
Perhaps/Not Sure 4 13.33%
No. I trust the President and his actions. 6 20.00%
Don't Care. 2 6.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 06-12-2003, 08:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Is it just me?

This idea has been rattling around in my head for some time now. This is going to soud like a conspiracy theory (PLEASE bear with me here), and it may very well be, but I think there might be something to the events of the past year and a half or so...

1) Year 2000 election - George W. Bush is elected president practically by the narrowest margin seen. One state is in dispute over who won - Florida - a state governed by George W's brother, Jeb Bush (coincidence?). Recounts are made, even the recounts are uncertain.

2) Ten months later, the economy is in bad shape, and Bush's economic policy isn't winning him favor. On September 11th, the WTC falls to a terrorist attack and the Pentagon is damaged. Casualties are in excess of 3,000 people. There were warnings issued as early as a year prior to the attacks that certain government personnel should stay away from New York and other major cities. Rumor has it that the Mossad (Israeli Intelligence) knew about 9/11 some time before it actually happened, and failed to inform the CIA. Israelis working in the WTC were told not to go to work the morning of 9/11.

3) The attacks are blamed on a terrorist group known as "Al-Qaeda", led by Osama Bin Laden, a known terrorist and former resistance leader who helped the Mujihadeen troops fight off the Soviets in Afghanistan during the 80's. Other attacks by Al-Qaeda supposedly included the attack on the USS Cole and the bombings of two US Embassies in Africa years earlier, during the Clinton administration.

4) President Bush declares a "War Against Terrorism", which has gained full public support due to fear left over from 9/11. Several laws are passed without proper hearings, such as the USA PATRIOT Act, which sacrifices and dismantles the civil liberties of Americans in an effort to "find terrorists". Bush also declares three countries as being an "Axis of Evil", Iraq, Iran and North Korea. All three countries are long-time enemies/poor relations of the United States. None of which have truely proven to have been harboring terrorists.

5) Bush directs the US Military to assist Northern Alliance troops to recapture Afghanistan from the Taliban, who are supposedly harboring Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. After a few months of fighting, the Taliban is toppled and Bin Laden is nowhere to be found. Bin Laden then only communicates with global media via videotape.

6) After toppling the Taliban, Bush turns his attention towards Iraq, claiming that they have "Weapons of Mass Destruction" aka Chemical, Biological, and Nuclear weapons. After several months of investigations Bush produces spotty evidence at best as to any WMDs in Iraq. Bush orders a full invasion of Iraq, mostly without the blessings of our allies.

7) After the Iraqi military is decimated and the Saddam Hussein regime toppled, Bush continues UN Weapons inspections on Iraq, finding nothing.


Something doesn't smell right...does anyone else here agree or is it just my wacked logic?
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Old 06-12-2003, 09:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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mmm,

I understand the logic while at the same time I don't agree with it, the main problem being the same as all complicated conspiracy theories: The more links and people involved, the harder it is to keep opsec.

Here you are talking coordinated effort of hundreds if not thousands of people over years of time, kinda like the "moon landing" conspiracy theory.

No, can't see it working that NO ONE talks or NO ONE finds out.
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Old 06-12-2003, 09:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, I don't believe anyone within the US would organize anything like 9/11, but it's very clear that G.W. Bush surfed on the aftermath.

He's losing from it now, though, with his Iraq policy. The accusations of terrorism were pretty much based on nothing. This is what the rest of the world reacted to; that the whole policy behind the war was aimed at finding a reason to get Hussein, instead of finding the truth.

Besides, he might as well disable the war on drugs right now. He just installed a regime in Afghanistan, which made the first decision of reseeding the country's poppy fields. Soon again, Afghanistan will produce 70 percent of the world's heroin.

But what really made me wince was the people he selected to keep around him. Some of these people sat through the Vietnam war, the Iran-Contras debacle, and now they're back?!!
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Old 06-12-2003, 09:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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WARNING!

Playing devils advocate here!

Maybe it wouldn't take years of planning, all you would need to have are a few connections in foreign intelligence and the resources to pay off key people to either keep them from talking (or keeping a gun to their head, so to speak - whichever). All you have to do is tell people what they wanted to hear or what they needed to know.

Again, just entertaining the thought.
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Old 06-12-2003, 09:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I suspect that aliens are somehow involved. Please add an option for me.
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Old 06-13-2003, 12:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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IT'S ALWAYS ALIENS!... Egypt, Pyramids.

i doubt it's a conspiracy that spans THAT far but as u said some facts dont fit
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Old 06-13-2003, 05:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Bush is certainly riding the terrorism wave. As long as he can keep finding something in the world, whether fabricated or real, to scare the pants off ordinary americans, he'll be here for a second term.

Wasn't it great back when 'The only thing we had to fear was Fear itself'?
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Old 06-13-2003, 06:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparhawk
Bush is certainly riding the terrorism wave. As long as he can keep finding something in the world, whether fabricated or real, to scare the pants off ordinary americans, he'll be here for a second term.

Wasn't it great back when 'The only thing we had to fear was Fear itself'?
Do you honestly believe that there isn't enough terrorism in today's world that is so in your face that you would have to fabricate more? I don't think the President is doing anything to scare the pants off anyone - he is dealing with a problem his predecessors should have dealt with a long time ago. George Bush will be here for a saecond term for several reasons:

1. There is no other candidate that stands a chance in 2004

2. He is doing a damn good job and a large number of liberal Democrats will support him before it is over.
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Old 06-13-2003, 06:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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it's too complicated for a person like bush to plan.

he did surf on the popularity from 911, but he's not smart enough to organize something of this magnitude
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Old 06-13-2003, 07:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think it all started on a grassy knoll in Texas...
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Old 06-13-2003, 07:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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You don't exactly have to be an EvilGenius(tm) to plan and execute something like this. Of course, there is always the possibility that Bush didn't plan it at all, rather that he let it happen so that he could ride the popularity all the way to the top and let the American public's fear give him free reign to do as he pleases. Such as to settle old scores around the world (Iraq). Also, his self-proclaimed Axis of Evil (ok, yes, granted, the people who run those countries aren't exactly nice guys at all, but for arguments sake, I digress...) are all countries that have crossed the US before. Iraq in 1991, Iran in the 1970's, and North Korea 1950-1953. I don't sense enough good intentions from Mr. Bush, just a fair amount of ulterior motives.

-------------------------------
World Peace? More like....Piece of the World...
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Old 06-13-2003, 12:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I tend not to agree with the really complicated conspiracy (RCC) stuff. I'm more a believer in the power of suggestion and plausible deniability. Some old tycoon in a gentleman's club (in either Tehran or Connecticut) muses about what it would be like if X happened, some young hotshot overhears him and tells his dodgy militia friends. One thing leads to another and X (or something like it) happens.

That seems to be more how the world is run than the RCC.

I don't know if that's at play here.

I do wonder though how many folks in the upper echelons of the GOP know or care what the phrase "perception of conflict of interest" means. They always seem to be so blatant about how they do business.

Last edited by Macheath; 06-13-2003 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 06-13-2003, 05:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Whitewater, how to do shady and non-blatant business practice.
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Old 06-14-2003, 12:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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true true recon
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Old 06-14-2003, 02:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
mmm,

I understand the logic while at the same time I don't agree with it, the main problem being the same as all complicated conspiracy theories: The more links and people involved, the harder it is to keep opsec.

Here you are talking coordinated effort of hundreds if not thousands of people over years of time, kinda like the "moon landing" conspiracy theory.

No, can't see it working that NO ONE talks or NO ONE finds out.

there are degrees of truth Lebell... people who don't need to know the truth are not told the truth. e.g. an intern who gets recruited into the White House doesnt immediately have a meeting with Bush that goes like "Right, well, heres all of our top military secrets", or for that matter, even "right, well, heres one not-that important military secret!" ... etc

Whilst i agree that something doesnt add up, im in no way convinced that it is anything other than co-incidence yet =)
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Will some please debunk this


www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm
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Old 06-16-2003, 03:42 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sun Tzu
Will some please debunk this


www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm
I think the paranoid conspiracy fantasies debunk themselves:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/not_crashed.htm

Quote:
I have long been convinced that Hillary Clinton was behind the Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman murders that created the distraction the night before the very day Hillary became the first First Lady to testify in a criminal investigation.
Haha.. WHAT?!?

Hey O.J., the "real murderers" are living in New York! Go get 'em tiger!
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sun Tzu
Will some please debunk this


www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm
ive seen it debunked befor, i dont know where, basicly it went through and explaine most of the points away, like the size of the whole not matching the wing span. basicly it said that the wings would break when it hit because there not that strong...
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by reconmike
Whitewater, how to do shady and non-blatant business practice.
Do you live in 1992? Let me rephrase: How annoying would it be if I brought up the President's lackluster military career in every thread, or the cocaine rumors, or the drunk driving bust?

Welcome to 2003, you have a republican president, it's OK to shut up about whitewater now...
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Old 06-18-2003, 06:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparhawk
Do you live in 1992? Let me rephrase: How annoying would it be if I brought up the President's lackluster military career in every thread, or the cocaine rumors, or the drunk driving bust?

Welcome to 2003, you have a republican president, it's OK to shut up about whitewater now...
Not to mention that despite years of digging and millions of dollars of taxpayer money, the best they managed to turn up was a blow job in the oval office. I agree- give it a rest.
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Old 06-18-2003, 02:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by lurkette
Not to mention that despite years of digging and millions of dollars of taxpayer money, the best they managed to turn up was a blow job in the oval office. I agree- give it a rest.
Odd how some one who knew the Clintons and may have been privy to more information about Whitewater, ends up dead on a park bench with a bullet hole in his head. Now there's a conspiracy plot for you.
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Old 06-18-2003, 02:43 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah, and a terrorist skimmed 15 feet from the ground with his 747 before he hit the target.

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Old 06-18-2003, 02:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I guess United Airlines trained him well.
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Old 06-20-2003, 12:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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well the terrorist never learned to land, (and this raise no flags)
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