America's Greatest Enemy - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Rekna · 03-19-2007, 09:25 AM

Who or what is the greatest threat to the American people? If you watch the news or pay any attention to politics you might be likely to say the opposite political party. Maybe it has always been this way and I've never noticed it before but it seems like the pundits view the opposing party as their greatest enemy. For example, Obberman consistently puts GOPers as the worst person of the day and Hanity consistently puts Democrats as the greatest enemy of America. What has driven us to hate our brothers, our neighbors, our fellow Americans so much? How can we stop the hatred and move on and start working for American instead of against each other?

To me I think this hatred and bias is our greatest enemy.

pan6467 · 03-19-2007, 10:00 AM

I think the biggest problem in America is an infrastructure falling apart and people not wanting to invest in the future.

Partisan politics has a little to do with it, but I think that's solely because neither side can come up with true solutions to rebuild so they do what is easy..... blame everything on the other party. No one cares if you have answers if your opponent is the reason why there are so many problems.

Then we have elected officials that have no idea how to manage and spend wisely. Then the party not in power points to all the waste and people start getting all pissy over taxes..... taxes are a necessity for society and to keep this country running.

If we rebuild the infrastructure and factories and put people to work in decent paying jobs, we rebuild a tax base, allow the government to rebuild education and the programs we need for a better future.

But when you have factories leaving, people losing decent paying jobs and taking bare minimum jobs and the ultra rich continue to amass wealth... the tax base becomes skewed and the rich won't pay more, the poor can't pay, thus government continues to grow the debt and can't do anything.

Fix the waste, rebuild factories and get positive ideas and people with true solutions to run and we'll be ok as a nation.

Willravel · 03-19-2007, 10:03 AM

Apathy is the greatest enemy to freedom, safety, and progress. Most people don't give a crap about the suspension of Habeas Corpus. They're more invested in what kind of coffee they're going to get at Starbuck's tomorrow morning.

samcol · 03-19-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Apathy is the greatest enemy to freedom, safety, and progress. Most people don't give a crap about the suspension of Habeas Corpus. They're more invested in what kind of coffee they're going to get at Starbuck's tomorrow morning.

I agree that apathy is the greatest enemy. Nothing happens without our consent directly or indirectly by not taking action.

host · 03-19-2007, 11:05 AM

The greatest threat to the future security of the US is economic collapse, IMO.
The purchasing power of the dollar is on borrowed time.....

....but, not to worry....the Federal Reserve, and everyone else, can buy these:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=rywdx&d=t
Profile:

Quote:

The investment seeks to provide investment results that will match 200%the performance of the US Dollar index. The fund employs as its investment strategy a program of investing in derivative instruments, such as index swaps, futures contracts and options on securities, and futures contracts.On a day-to-day basis, the fund holds U.S. Government securities or cash equivalents to collateralize these futures and options contracts. It also may enter into repurchase agreements. The fund is a nondiversified enhanced index fund.

...for every penny the US dollar loses in purchasing power, vs. other world currencies, this investment "instrument" is designed to gain two cents....

I think that it is a grave sign that there is such a thing....and, if we all "piled in", in an effort to protect our financial holdings, the effect would be the same as if none of us did.....

If you want some protection from dollar risk, there is a place for something like this....as long as it doesn't get too popular....

Dilbert1234567 · 03-19-2007, 12:01 PM

i think the 2 greatest threats are idiocy and as Will said apathy.

we are dumbing down, more interested in what Britney shaved when then in science and math. we were the top, the pinnacle of civilization... and some how, we just don't care.

Seaver · 03-19-2007, 12:47 PM

I agree with Pan and Wil.

We are our own worst enemies. While we face very grave threats from the outside, and some looming docile (at the moment) giants are things to be heavily considered, they are not capable of obliterating our power as of yet.

However, as my favorite History Professor said:

Quote:

All Civilizations fall when they fail to meet three criteria.
1) A Country must be able to feed itself.
2) A Country must be able to reproduce itself.
3) A Country must be able to defend itself.

Forget the theory of corruption doomed the Romans, Rome had been corrupt since Romulus killed Remus (figuratively speaking of course). Rome crumbled because they could not keep the barbarians out of Rome. The Ottoman Empire did not fall because of corruption, they fell because they could not keep the European Armies out of the Ottoman Empire.

So maybe we should alter the phrase to fully adapt to our situation. "We are our own worst enemies at this moment."

Willravel · 03-19-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

I agree with Pan and Wil.

*faints*

flstf · 03-19-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

To me I think this hatred and bias is our greatest enemy.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
It is probably human nature for governments to fail since all seem to eventually. Its not so much that our polititians are trying to mess things up, they are just doing what we want in order to get our vote. Their number one goal is to get and/or stay in power and they are mostly very good at this.

As far as why we continue to keep voting them in, I guess a lot has to do with the choices the two major parties run each election cycle. The skills required to win an election are probably very different from those required to run a government well. I guess my answer to your question is human nature.

The_Jazz · 03-19-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

We have met the enemy and he is us.

Wow, someone took me off "ignore"! (see signature for relavence)

Seriously, I think if you expand "us" to mean the human race at large, you're right. Also defining a time period would be helpful since I think that the most harmful thing to the US in the next 25 years (host's economic issues) isn't what's more harmful in the next 100 years (apathy).

One of the things that's always interested me about history is how often it's repeated. For instance, there was lots of voter apathy on the East Coast in the late 1800's and early 1900's, but voting percentages stayed high in that area. The reason for that boils down to fraud of either the outright variety (the dead voting) or of the more subtle variety (payoffs, etc.). That's not to say that apathy isn't and won't continue to be a problem, but more that it always has been.

pan6467 · 03-19-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

I agree with Pan and Wil.

I'm comin' to join ya Elizabeth, honey. I'll be the one dead that landed over Wil's fainted body.

But where many believe we are done..... I believe there is still hope. We just have to want it as a society and start making the right decisions. But...... we also have to believe we can and sacrifice for tomorrow.

Therein lies the rub....... we have a generation GIVEN everything, taught they were the most important people, then they passed that down to their children and their children...... but what this "great" generation forgot was to replace what they used.

Instead of replenishing the schools and keeping them strong.... "Why should I have to pay taxes for that?" Instead of making sure there were decent paying jobs, "Who cares if factories close down.... the unions want too much, the employees are human debris because ... well they aren't educated and that's all they desired to be.... it's their fault. Besides, they want a fortune for their product and I can buy this nice Chinese made product for less..... who cares if it hurts jobs.... I'll save money and I'll have mine, screw everyone else and the community.... what did they ever do for me?"

Free education........ yeah well......

a society where if the husband worked 40 hours a week a family didn't need mom to work. Mom was able to stay home and take care of the kids.

a society where neighbors helped each other

a society where the community and people had pride and worked together to build a better future

It's easy for our kids and us to worry more about what stars do than what is going on at school........ kids learn what is important from us and I think we follow celebrities now because it's escapism.... My life isn't so bad look at what so and so is doing.

Finally, the press, officials, everyone else says there is no hope so fuck it, let's all just eat, drink, be merry for tomorrow our country may die.

Aw well..... I ramble, I believe we can have those things again but we need to focus on them. But what do I know????????

This is what is wrong with this country:

Link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070321/...ed_prosecutors

Quote:

Bush warns Dems to take offer in firings

By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer 16 minutes ago

A defiant President Bush warned Democrats Tuesday to accept his offer to have top aides speak about the firings of federal prosecutors only privately and not under oath, or risk a constitutional showdown from which he would not back down.

Democrats' response was swift and firm: They said they would start authorizing subpoenas as soon as Wednesday for the White House aides.

"Testimony should be on the record and under oath. That's the formula for true accountability," said Patrick Leahy (news, bio, voting record), D-Vt., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Bush, in a late-afternoon statement at the White House, said he would fight any subpoena effort in court.

"We will not go along with a partisan fishing expedition aimed at honorable public servants," he said. "It will be regrettable if they choose to head down the partisan road of issuing subpoenas and demanding show trials when I have agreed to make key White House officials and documents available."

He added that federal prosecutors work for him and it is natural to consider replacing them. While saying he disapproved of how the decisions were explained to Congress, he insisted "there is no indication that anybody did anything improper."

Bush gave his embattled attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, a boost during an early morning call and ended the day with a public statement repeating it. "He's got support with me," Bush said.

The Senate, meanwhile, voted to strip Gonzales of his authority to fill U.S. attorney vacancies without Senate confirmation. Democrats contend the Justice Department and White House purged eight federal prosecutors, some of whom were leading political corruption investigations, after a change in the Patriot Act gave Gonzales the new authority.

Several Democrats, including presidential hopefuls Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barrack Obama, Joe Biden and John Edwards, have called for Gonzales' ouster or resignation. So have a handful of Republican lawmakers.

"What happened in this case sends a signal really through intimidation by purge: 'Don't quarrel with us any longer,'" said Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (news, bio, voting record), D-R.I., a former U.S. attorney who spent much of Monday evening paging through 3,000 documents released by the Justice Department.

Bush said his White House counsel, Fred Fielding, told lawmakers they could interview presidential counselor Karl Rove, former White House Counsel Harriet Miers and their deputies — but only on the president's terms: in private, "without the need for an oath" and without a transcript.

The president cast the offer as virtually unprecedented and a reasonable way for Congress to get all the information it needs about the matter.

"If the Democrats truly do want to move forward and find the right information, they ought to accept what I proposed," Bush said. "If scoring political points is the desire, then the rejection of this reasonable proposal will really be evident for the American people to see."

The House Judiciary Committee was expected to authorize subpoenas for Rove, Miers and their deputies on Wednesday; the Senate Judiciary Committee was to follow suit a day later.

Bush said he worried that allowing testimony under oath would set a precedent on the separation of powers that would harm the presidency as an institution.

"My choice is to make sure that I safeguard the ability for presidents to get good decisions," he said. "If the staff of a president operated in constant fear of being hauled before various committees to discuss internal deliberations, the president would not receive candid advice and the American people would be ill-served."

Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., who is leading the Senate probe into the firings, spoke dismissively of the deal offered by the White House:

"It's sort of giving us the opportunity to talk to them, but not giving us the opportunity to get to the bottom of what really happened here."

Even without oaths, Bush aides would be legally required to tell the truth to Congress. But without a transcript of their comments, "it would be almost meaningless to say that they would be under some kind of legal sanction," Schumer complained.

Fielding's meeting on Capitol Hill came a few hours after Bush spoke with Gonzales in an early morning phone call — their first conversation since the president had acknowledged mistakes by his longtime friend and lawmakers of both parties had called for Gonzales' ouster.

The White House offered to arrange interviews with Rove, Miers, deputy White House counsel William Kelley and J. Scott Jennings, a deputy to White House political director Sara Taylor, who works for Rove.

"Such interviews would be private and conducted without the need for an oath, transcript, subsequent testimony or the subsequent issuance of subpoenas," Fielding said in a letter to the chairmen of the Senate and House Judiciary committees and their ranking Republicans.

He said documents released by the Justice Department "do not reflect that any U.S. attorney was replaced to interfere with a pending or future criminal investigation or for any other improper reason."

We have the Dems. looking at this as a way to get Bush, Bush going totally power mad.

Yes, Bush has gone too far and needs to be spanked. But I foresee a replay of Clinton's years where nothing gets done to forward the nation.

Bush needs to do 1 of 4 things....

Crown himself Holy Emperor discharge Congress and just do away with the games, just tell everyone you want total control George and stop playing the games at tax payer's costs.

admit problems and WORK with Congress so that issues can be dealt with fastly and they can all move on and do what we elected them to do,

just resign and admit you had no idea what happened but you take responsibility

or continue what you are doing, not getting anything done, spending BILLIONS upon BILLIONS by the time this is all over and lose any chance your party has to get the Presidency or Congress back in '08.

What happened to Presidents and Congresses that actually worked and put out bills that were meant to help the country.

Now, all they care about is fighting each other.... nothing gets done and we continue to freefall..... while they all play their fiddles and watch Rome burn.

IT'S ENOUGH..... GET WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE DONE AND RUN THE FUCKING COUNTRY ALREADY....... DO WHAT WE PUT YOU INTO OFFICE TO DO!!!!!!!!!

In the words of Howard Beale (played by Peter Finch) in the classic movie Network...................

Quote:

Howard Beale: [shouting] You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, Goddamnit! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell,

'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it:
Howard Beale: [screaming at the top of his lungs] "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

To wit I open my window in cyberspace............... and I shout (this isn't just to Bush but ALL elected officials, regardless of party, abusing their power). Anyone care to join me???????? come on now don't be shy...............

GODAMNIT I'M FUCKING MAD AS HELL AND I REFUSE TO TAKE IT ANYMORE............ I AM A HUMAN BEING THIS IS MY COUNTRY AND I REFUSE TO LET ANYMORE DUMB FUCKING INSANE EGO MANIACAL BASTARDS RUN IT.... IF YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER TO THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR YOU..... YOU NEED KICKED OUT AND TRIED FOR TREASON, BECAUSE YOU HOLD THE FAITH TRUST AND SAFETY OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND YOU SHIT ON THEM...... FUCK YOU AND WE DESERVE BETTER, WE NEED BETTER AND WE WANT BETTER GO FUCK YOURSELF

Management does not necessarily hold these views and is deeply sorry if anyone is offended by the language and attitude.... perhaps we should just play fucking elevator happy music for you and we should just sit the fuck down and shut up....... we now return you to you thread and ohhhh have a nice day.....

03-19-2007, 09:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	America's Greatest Enemy Who or what is the greatest threat to the American people? If you watch the news or pay any attention to politics you might be likely to say the opposite political party. Maybe it has always been this way and I've never noticed it before but it seems like the pundits view the opposing party as their greatest enemy. For example, Obberman consistently puts GOPers as the worst person of the day and Hanity consistently puts Democrats as the greatest enemy of America. What has driven us to hate our brothers, our neighbors, our fellow Americans so much? How can we stop the hatred and move on and start working for American instead of against each other? To me I think this hatred and bias is our greatest enemy.

03-19-2007, 10:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I think the biggest problem in America is an infrastructure falling apart and people not wanting to invest in the future. Partisan politics has a little to do with it, but I think that's solely because neither side can come up with true solutions to rebuild so they do what is easy..... blame everything on the other party. No one cares if you have answers if your opponent is the reason why there are so many problems. Then we have elected officials that have no idea how to manage and spend wisely. Then the party not in power points to all the waste and people start getting all pissy over taxes..... taxes are a necessity for society and to keep this country running. If we rebuild the infrastructure and factories and put people to work in decent paying jobs, we rebuild a tax base, allow the government to rebuild education and the programs we need for a better future. But when you have factories leaving, people losing decent paying jobs and taking bare minimum jobs and the ultra rich continue to amass wealth... the tax base becomes skewed and the rich won't pay more, the poor can't pay, thus government continues to grow the debt and can't do anything. Fix the waste, rebuild factories and get positive ideas and people with true solutions to run and we'll be ok as a nation. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

03-19-2007, 12:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	i think the 2 greatest threats are idiocy and as Will said apathy. we are dumbing down, more interested in what Britney shaved when then in science and math. we were the top, the pinnacle of civilization... and some how, we just don't care. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

03-19-2007, 10:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Apathy is the greatest enemy to freedom, safety, and progress. Most people don't give a crap about the suspension of Habeas Corpus. They're more invested in what kind of coffee they're going to get at Starbuck's tomorrow morning.