tecoyah

In this thread I request serious Ideas on what we all would do, Given the Power to Act to correct the direction this country is headed.

-OR-

A serious Explanation as to the Benefits of continuing along Current Foreign Policy.


My Plan:

1) Halt all financial Aid to every entity outside the United States.
2) Use these funds to take care of Domestic Issues, and Solidify Military Superiority.
3) Secure all borders, and begin mass extradition of Illegal squatters.
4) Begin Propoganda Campaign directed Via Satellite broadcast, showing the prosperity these programs create in the US.
5) Watch as millions die due to United States Isolationism, and feel terrible about the neccesity.
6) Take on 1 (One) nation at a time, and help them become prosperous.
7) React, and ONLY react to the inevitable Terrorist attack within the United States, with no Mercy whatsoever, after making it extremely clear (thru the aformentioned propoganda) that this will be the result of attack.
8) Watch TV and Drink Beer.

samcol

Great thread idea btw.

I would basically take the trade with everyone ally with no one mentality.

Bring all troops home from EVERYWHERE and put them on the border, including intelligence agencies.

Lock down the borders to illegal immigration, and begin deporting illegals.
End global war on terror.

Stop Financial aid like you said.

Oh and of course UN out of US. Withraw them from the US, and the US from the UN.

kutulu

Let millions die because our fragile little egos can't take it? Really mature.

I don't get deporting illegals either. If any deporting would be done, it would have to be on a case-by-case basis. Plenty of illegals were brought over as children. They had no fucking choice in the matter. Now they have built a life here. It's heartless to take that life away.

Mass deportations don't work on any practical level either. Like it or not they are providing vital services and even if everyone gets employed as a result, all the jobs would not be filled.

tecoyah

Ustwo

tecoya were you hacked?

I wouldn't mind this policy in the least, though I'd include non-productive members of US society on the aid cut off, but its sort of like the idea of being a libertarian society. Its not a bad idea, but it would never happen politically.

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Ch'i

1) Bring the army home, and stop this "world police" buisness.
2) Concentrate on becoming a completely self sufficient country.
3) Make sure absolutely no corporations have any role in government affairs, especially war profiteering.
4) Redirect military funding towards education programs, and mainly the developement of solar power.
5) Place a limitation on procreation: Two children per family. In order to have more you must recieve permission, and pay a fine.
6) Sell all oil based technology, and oil to other countries.
7) Set a policy of environmental equivalent exchange: if you take something from the environment, you must return something of equal proportion/value.
8) Create a policy that everyone must build around the environment.
9) Strict emission laws (not just cars); no pollution alowed.
10) Make this government a seven, or more, party system.
11) Develope non-leathal & anti-technology technologies for defense.

ironman

tecoyah's and samcol's posts are just the kind of thinking that afterwards lead to the question "why does everybody hates the US?"

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samcol

Your post doesn't make much sense. Our type of thinking is radically different from what is happening right now. They hate the US because of what has been proposed in this thread, or do they hate us for what is currently happening? Think about it...

Willravel

Trade the military and education system's budgets.

Infinite_Loser

I have something to say about this.

Most countries would fair better without United States intervention. The United States has a knack of entering (Or should I say invading?) a country and royally fucking it up in one way or another. The world doesn't need the United States as much as some people would think.

Other countries should be allowed to govern themselves unless they pose a DIRECT threat to the safety of any American. If we did that, then maybe the rest of the world wouldn't dislike us so much...

Edit: I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants! ...Let's just start with the European settlers who came to the Americas without the consent of the natives here already.

I'm rather curious as how you'd go about making all of this happen, especially number 9.

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highthief

1) Reduce the military budget by half and stop interfering in the affairs of so many nations halfway around the world
2) Spend the money on becoming a self-sufficient nation, not reliant on foreign oil
3) Paydown the debt with the newfound prosperity brought about by greater self-sufficiency and not having to pay for a bloated military
4) Help those less fortunate both within and without with funding towards education and healthcare
5) Stop remaking funny 1960s TV shows into bad modern movies. No Beverly Hillbillies, no Flintstones, no Brady Bunch, none of it!

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Charlatan

Highthief... what would you do in Canada?

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Ch'i

Well, like most of the ideas here, my idea is one that would probably never be possible.

With most policy, and law, there is a certain level of trust that is given. I could try to enforce these to the best of my ability, but inevitably it would fall on whether the people would decide to abide by them or not.

Emissions would be alot easier than the other two. By the time I would have implemented this, solar power would be the main source of our energy. I would have a hell of a time getting manufacturures to go along with the idea. But even if there were those who polute anyway, there would be alot less of it. The principle of these laws would be to set an ideal for the society to strive for. Ideals are hardly ever reached, but if they are set higher the results will be higher as we try to achieve those ideals.

My ideas would not be quick, or convenient. Sometimes its better to work hard for something, rather than find the easiest way to complete it (especially when it is at the expense of something as important as our environment).

Elphaba

An interesting topic of discussion, "Junkie."

If I could......I would:

Military:
- Withdraw and redeploy personnel from all cold war military installations (Germany, Japan, etc)
- Withdraw US soldiers from Iraq to "over the horizon" in Kuwait with major personnel focus on special ops forces. (Murtha's idea).
- Return all National Guard in Iraq and Afghanistan back to the states. Call a Governors' meeting to redefine the use of the Guard in terms of national security. They would no longer be engaged in foreign wars.
- Provide troop support to UN sponsored efforts in Afghanistan and Lebanon (and anywhere else we hold some responsibility under this administration)
- Drastically cut military expenditures at the "Perfumed Prince" level.
- Cancel further Star Wars expenditures
- Cancel renewed nuclear warhead expenditures
- Form an independent panel to review/audit all military contracts for a full governmental and public review.
- Any savings beyond expenditures would be used to pay down foreign debt.

This is just my start on the changes I would make in the military alone. I will add more later in all aspects of government. (I have got to get back to work)

Lady Sage

This sums it up for me.

Redo the budget! Reform social security and other public assistance plans.

I also think that the USA needs to take care of ourselves instead of worrying about everyone else. We fought our civil wars let them fight theirs.

I would also bring our military home to protect us. I feel this should be their primary function.

I would help the countries that have helped us and let the rest of the world rot.

Yes I am that cold, yes I feel that way and no I do not expect to be put down for my views as I am not putting down others for theirs.

Everyone is entitled to their own views. These are simply mine.

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highthief

Mostly what we've been doing, whether it is the Liberals or Conservatives in power - pay down the debt. Also, take greater advantage of Canada's strengths beyond the primary resource sector and invest heavily in R&D in new technologies. It is one area where Canada really lags, R&D, despite having a massively educated workforce, bags of capital and fine infrastructure. You see a bit of it happening in the Kitchener-Waterloo area of Ontario, but I'd like to see more.

I'm OK with us in Afghanistan except that I'm not sure we (and I mean both Canada and NATO as a whole) are well suited to "win" the mission, just as the US is unsuited to "win" Iraq with the current strategy.

Maybe invade Iceland, too - there are some hot chicks in Iceland and they don't actually have a military, per se, so our odds are good.

Yourself?

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Baraka_Guru

1) Negotiate a worldwide trade embargo.
2) Coordinate the expulsion of all foreign U.S. diplomatic and military personnel and assets, in addition to the deportation of all U.S. citizens, including those holding dual citizenship.
3) Provide humanitarian aid when and where necessary.
4) Freeze all foreign U.S. assets.
5) Establish a minimum repayment requirement of all foreign debt owed.
6) Dispatch U.N. missions to the U.S. to ensure the continuation of civil rights and the rule of law.
7) Pass a U.N. resolution banning the manufacture, distribution, and use of all firearms within the U.S., excluding those assigned to U.N. personnel.
8) Negotiate the dismantlement of the U.S. education system and replace it with the Scottish model.
9) Negotiate the dismantlement of the U.S. political system and replace it with the Canadian parliamentary model.
10) Adjust the national budget to reflect the interests of the American public, using representative methodology.

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Willravel

I forgot to mention the national Angelina Jolie cloning program.

1) Is 13 political parties too many? Because in the United States of Willravel, it's the minimum. All debates are televised, and all people who are their party's candidate get to speak. No one is kept out, an no one is arrested for going to their own presidental debate. Cobb and Badnarik will have their day.

2) Military overseas? Shit no. We have allies overseas, and if we need help we can ask them. Likewise if they need help from us, they are free to ask. An ally overseas doesn't take money from our budget, and they're a lot more likely to trust us if we don't have 12 military bases on their land.

3) National public healthcare, universal healthcare. I pay $480 per month for myself right now. Kaiser is a wonderful company, but would do better if it were available to everyone across the country. We are America, and we can make it work.

4) Remember all those people that hate us? Time to fix that. Declassify every illegal operation around the globe in he countries of our allies. That includes operations in Italy to kidnapp an Italian citizen by the CIA. Our allies are our allies because they're our allies. We can't treat them like an enemy. We end embargos, EVERYWHERE.

5) Ass rape prison for CEOs that steal the investors money. No bail. No running. Innocent, but wearing an ankle tracking device, until guilty. When found guilty, they get it.

6) Bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Immediatally. Anyone found to be breaking this doctrine will be in line right behind the CEOs that steal money.

7) Intead of economically raping other, less fortunate countries, maybe we help them develope civil rights and programs to help the country to become stable and happy. Yes, I said happy.

8) Voting for members of the Judicial Branch.

9) Ford sucks.

Elphaba

I'm liking Baraka_Guru's thinking, but I suspect he was snookered into buying a Ford.

Bill O'Rights

Some very good points, willravel. My primary question to you, however, is why bash the thirty-eighth President of the United States, as you have done in point number 9?
Granted, he was ineffectual, but to say that he sucks is a rather harsh editorial of a man that was clearly in over his head, and not in a position of his own design.










(Yes, I know what you meant. )

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Charlatan

Interesting. I pretty much agree with you.

R&D
Infrastructure
Paying down the debt (another massive surplus this year I see).

I would also increase military spending in an effort to be able to:
a) better defend ourselves (especially in the north)
b) put our money where our mouth is on international affairs (this need not mean becoming a US lite)

I would look at the structures of our political system and consider given more power to the larger municipalities (i.e. Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton). They need better control of their collected tax dollars. Currently they are practically powerless to bring about any infrastructure changes.

I would have a serious think about ripping up NAFTA. Though it is a sound agreement in principle, in practice it seems to favour the US side of the equation, espcially the clauses about our oil production.

The Iceland idea sound good... and interestingly isn't far off from what I'd like to see, more trade and cooperation between Canada and Scandinavia. We have much in common (shared borders, common political leanings, hot babes, similar weather... did I mention hot babes?)

Oh, and Afghanistan... I agree we should continue to be there. THAT is where the real threat is and where it always was. We (and NATO) are doing good work there. I agree that we should continue to reexamine the mission as it evolves, but in the end the Afghanis need help both in infrastructure and "Taliban control".

NATO may not be up for the job... I agree.

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stevo

I'd build up the military even more. Crush all dissenters and anyone I don't like. Basically run the whole tyrant routine.

I'm glad I'm not in power. You should be too.

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Ch'i

Good stuff.

Wow stevo, wow.

Willravel

He pardoned Nixon, and that was bad, but he also intruduced amnesty for draft dogers, which was good.

Seriously, I had a 94 Escort in HS, and it really pissed me off.

reconmike

1. First I would strip all private land owners of their deeds and make it all public free zones, where everyone can plant flowers and trees and frolic barefoot while smoking weed.

2. I would make it mandatory to adopt a terrorist, and bring him to the US to show him how well plan # 1 is working. You must also hug him atleast twice a day to show him how much love you have for him.
Then you will have to share a nice greasy pork sandwich with him.

3. Anyone who has an income of more than $40.00 dollars a week will not need the excess money so it will all go into a pool for everyone to take what they need.

4. All firearms will be melted down to produce shiny reflection walls, where people will go to sing and dance while looking at themselves doing it.

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highthief

I agree with the military bit because if we are sending our guys to place like Afghanistan they really need to have the very best kit money can buy, and I think they could be better kitted out. I also agree that defence of our north is critical, with the main threat being the U.S. at this point in time - in the past, it may have been the USSR, and in the future it might be China, but right now, it is the US that should concern us.

I'm not sure I agree with giving the municipalities more control or dollars. As far as I have seen in Toronto, the municipal government is hopeless - guys like Miller talk and talk and have no clue, IMO, about what to do or how to do it.

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Paq

Honestly, i don't know what i'd do if i could, as i'm often torn between teh whole "F THE WORLD' mentality of ...well, i wouldn't want all the nuke capability to go to waste..... against the "Can't we all just get along' hippy side fo me...

but the one thign i can get both sides of me to agree on: Dude...what ..are you smoking...and where can i get some

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stevo

hey, at least I'm honest.

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Willravel

UNLIMITED POWER!!!

Ch'i

I just spit my tea everywhere will, thanks.

Charlatan

Toronto can't get shit done, regardless of the leadership, because the Province holds all the power and the Feds hold a lot of the money. It isn't politically advantageous for a the Provincial governement to give Toronto what it really needs because of how it reads in the rest of the province.

Looking at cities like Chicago and London, where a lot of the power resides in the city itself they have managed to bring about changes to the positive (I am largely talking about Chicago's ability to turn around its waterfront in a reasonably short time or London to control its tax base to fund various projects).

I would argue that you don't get "the cream of the crop" in the current municiple set up because there is little real power there.

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highthief

I'm not an expert in Muni politics by any stretch, so these are just my impressions but it seems to me Toronto city government is a waste, compared to Montreal, Chicago, Boston and many other places where they get things done.

I'm sick of hearing Miller whine about the Island Airport because it "jeopardizes" the waterfront. Miller, have you been down to the waterfront lately? You and your predecesors have done nothing to promote the waterfront other than whine about the airport and the Docks. Do something about it (like stop building condo after condo and tear down the Gardiner and evict all those squatters on the Islands - heh) or shut the hell up!

Montreal builds Metro stop after Metro stop, redeveloped the waterfront and continues to do so. What sort of major infrastructure has a Toronto mayor initiated? Even Lastman, our cannibal fearing former mayor, started the whole Sheppard to Don Mills extension while in office as North York mayor. Hazel does amazing work in Mississauga.

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http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...t=28649&page=1


I would have cut and paste, but some past members had input as well.

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Charlatan

Actually, from what I have seen, there is a lot going on in Toronto. The waterfront *is* changing for the good these days. The big patch of land just east of the Distillery District is in full transformation mode. It will be an entirely new community in an area that was desolate brown lands only a few months ago.

Ontario Park, a new park running east west along Unwin between Cherry Beach and the Leslie Street Spit, is underway.

The reconstruction of the waterfront from Parliament to Bathurst was a approved and is underway (this includes the little experiment with Queen's Quay this summer).

The biggest stumbling block to development is that much of the lands in question are owned by three levels of government. That and the Port Authority has its head up its ass. Regardless of for or against the Airport, the underlying issue is that if the City wants it gone, they can't do anything about it. It is under the control of an arms length Federally appointed organization (Port Authority) that doesn't care what they city wants. Like most bureaucracies, it is interested in preserving itself. Losing the Airport would render its already thin mandate almost non-existent.

Another example of this is the Province's desire to locate a new natural gas power plant in the port lands. Yes we are going to run short of power, but plunking the plant there seems short sighted. The portlands have the potential to be some of the highest tax revenue generating property in Toronto... but not if there is a massive power plant in the area. Who wants to live next to that? There were alternatives proposed by the city but once more, it is out of their hands in the hands of the Province.

I think you can see the pattern there...

As for the subway system. Agreed in part. There is a lot of work that needs to be done. The top of that list though is restoring the funding that was cut from the Province and the Feds. The TTC is the *only* North American transit system that isn't subsidized by government. It has to find 80% of it operating budget from the fare box. Most systems hover around 40%.

There just isn't the money in a system like that to build new infrastructure.

As for the Sheppard line, it should never have been built. It should have been a dedicated streetcar/LRT right of way like what we see on Spadina. Much more cost effective and then it could have been extended out to the Zoo and connected to the Scarborough RT line. As it stands, it goes to nowhere.

More Spadina dedicated lines are the way to go everywhere else as well. A subway line to York is needlessly expenseive as well when you can run a surface route for a fraction of the cost.

Yes, Hazel has done some good work. But that's apples and oranges. You are talking about a bedroom community vs. a metropolian city. The infrastructure cost alone are more in the city without getting into the fact that those who live in the GTA largely enjoy the use of Toronto's infrastructure on a daily basis (ie they work there) but don't pay for it. The reverse is not true (i.e. those who live in Toronto do not use the outlying systems in nearly the same measure).

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- Old Man Luedecke