Is Bin Laden Dead? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 09-25-2006, 01:35 PM

dc why would Rice name a man no one outside of the government had heard of in a speech about terrorism written before 9/11?

Obviously there was concern about terrorism or there wouldn't have been a speech in the first place.

Secondly I'll let GWB answer some of that..

"When I take action, I’m not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It’s going to be decisive."

Third excuses have been made but the Clinton admin made it awfuly hard for intelligence to work together, or gather information, all for appearances. Look up Jamie Gorelick. She did her best to try to wiggle free, but our intelligence community was hogtied under Clinton.

dc_dux · 09-25-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

dc why would Rice name a man no one outside of the government had heard of in a speech about terrorism written before 9/11?

Obviously there was concern about terrorism or there wouldn't have been a speech in the first place.
....

"When I take action, I’m not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It’s going to be decisive."

The Bush anti-terrorism strategy for the first nine months, despite the Clarke memo and despite the August PDB was "missile defense" as the anti-terrorism strategy.

NSC officials said the speech was meant to be a broad look at the administration's efforts to fight terrorism. In it, Rice argued that the United States should build a missile defense system.

But that mutil-billion dollar white elephant should be the subject of another thread.

As to Bush's decisive action....the Taliban and al Queda are back in Afghanistan and many military and foreign policy officials, past and present, including the latest NIE and's testimony from former US generals in Iraq, would suggest that his Iraq action has been a "decisive faiilure."

The greatest quality leadership is accepting responsiblity for your actions, not obfuscating, lying and spinning.

BTW, I would agree that Jamie Gorelick was in over her head when it came to national security and anti-terrorism, much like Condi Rice, a sovietologist academician in a post cold war world.

Quote:

Third excuses have been made but the Clinton admin made it awfuly hard for intelligence to work together, or gather information, all for appearances. Look up Jamie Gorelick. She did her best to try to wiggle free, but our intelligence community was hogtied under Clinton.

Failures "to work together" go back before Clinton....you might recall Reagan's response, or the reasons for the lack thereof, to the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut.

host · 09-25-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

dc why would Rice name a man no one outside of the government had heard of in a speech about terrorism written before 9/11?

Obviously there was concern about terrorism or there wouldn't have been a speech in the first place......

Ustwo...just in case you are serious:
http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...ll&sort=oldest

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...e=full&frow=90
91.
NEWS SUMMARY

... York indicted Osama bin Laden before the deadly embassy bombings ...View free preview
August 26, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1330 words
92. Explaining Our Actions in the Sudan

... case against Osama bin Laden, who occupies a stronghold ... have secured Mr. bin Laden's expulsion from the Sudan ...View free preview
August 26, 1998 - By Milt Bearden (NYT) - Opinion - Op-Ed - 773 words
93.
Missile Strikes Violate Rule of Law

... killing of Osama bin Laden, who is believed to ... to kill Mr. bin Laden illegal. Killing of people ...
August 26, 1998 - (NYT) - Opinion - Letter - 170 words
94. Missile Strikes Violate Rule of Law

... organized by Osama bin Laden is that it is made ... networks like Mr. bin Laden's to operate. At ...View free preview
August 26, 1998 - (NYT) - Opinion - Letter - 200 words
95.
Missile Strikes Violate Rule of Law

... to capture Osama bin Laden and destroy his operation, ...View free preview
August 26, 1998 - (NYT) - Opinion - Letter - 206 words
96.
AFTER THE ATTACK: IN SOUTH AFRICA; F.B.I. Is Invited to Join Inquiry Into Bombing

... Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden. The bomb here, ...View free preview
August 27, 1998 - By DONALD G. McNEIL Jr. (NYT) - World - News - 1229 words
97.
AFTER THE ATTACK: THE GUERRILLAS; 'We Are Freedom Fighters,' Says a Leader of Militants

... run by Osama bin Laden, a Saudi who Washington ... run by Mr. bin Laden, according to American intelligence ...View free preview
August 27, 1998 - By RAYMOND BONNER with STEVE LeVINE (NYT) - World - News - 1053 words
98. Eliminating Hidden Weapons; Too Much Secrecy on the Sudan

... factory and Osama bin Laden, the alleged master terrorist ... by expelling Mr. bin Laden in 1996. These uncertainties ...View free preview
August 28, 1998 - (NYT) - Opinion - Editorial - 447 words
99. AFTER THE ATTACKS: THE PRECAUTIONS; With Suspect in Town, Giuliani Steps Up Security

... militants, Osama bin Laden, are suspected of having ...View free preview
August 28, 1998 - By DAN BARRY (NYT) - World - News - 485 words
100.
AFTER THE ATTACKS: IN SOUTH AFRICA; 3 Suspects Bound for Cairo Held in Restaurant Bombing

... exile, Osama bin Laden, of backing. Detectives ...View free preview
August 28, 1998 - By DONALD G. McNEIL Jr. (NYT) - World - News - 917 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=100
101. AFTER THE ATTACK: THE OVERVIEW; Blast Suspect Held in U.S. And Is Said to Admit Role

... run by Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born multimillionaire suspected ... returned against Mr. bin Laden in New York. That ... evidence against Mr. bin Laden, who came under Federal ...View free preview
August 28, 1998 - By DAVID JOHNSTON (NYT) - World - News - 1204 words
102 NEWS SUMMARY

... Afghanistan by Osama bin Laden. A1 New York City ...View free preview
August 28, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1419 words
103.
AFTER THE ATTACKS; Excerpts From Court Charges: To Terrorists, 'It Was Proper to Kill Americans'

... led by Osama bin Laden, dedicated to opposing non-Islamic ... meetings with Osama bin Laden, including a press conference ... recent interview of bin Laden by ABC News. The ...View free preview
August 28, 1998 - (NYT) - World - Text - 1370 words
104.
Even a Jihad Has Its Rules

... Osama bin Laden, the renegade Saudi financier ... say that Mr. bin Laden has justified his jihad, ... 1966, Mr. bin Laden argues that a war against ...View free preview
August 29, 1998 - By JUDITH MILLER (NYT) - News - 949 words
105.
AFTER THE ATTACKS: THE INDICTMENT; Charges Against 2d Suspect Detail Trail of Terrorists

... case against Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Islamic militant ... operations of Mr. bin Laden's group, Al Qaeda ... number of Mr. bin Laden's camps. The focus ...View free preview
August 29, 1998 - By DAVID JOHNSTON (NYT) - World - News - 1021 words
106.
AFTER THE ATTACKS: THE OVERVIEW; Flaws in U.S. Account Raise Questions on Strike in Sudan

... millionaire, Osama bin Laden, directly financed the plant ... said that Mr. bin Laden, the exiled Saudi millionaire ... now say Mr. bin Laden's financial support for Hassan ...View free preview
August 29, 1998 - By TIM WEINER and STEVEN LEE MYERS (NYT) - World - News - 1488 words
107.
NEWS SUMMARY

... case against Osama bin Laden, the leading suspect in ...View free preview
August 29, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 2388 words
108.
The World; Rethinking the Ban on Political Assassinations

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden and his Islamic acolytes. ... to stop Mr. bin Laden is to kill him. ... fired at Mr. bin Laden's base camps in Afghanistan ...View free preview
August 30, 1998 - By TIM WEINER (NYT) - Week in Review - News - 1023 words
109.
Poor Face Grim Choices as Pakistan's Economy, and Government, Unravel

... heard of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born millionaire the ...View free preview
August 30, 1998 - By BARRY BEARAK (NYT) - World - News - 1609 words
110.
Abroad at Home; Weighing the Price

... operations of Osama bin Laden, reported mastermind of the ... enterprise like Mr. bin Laden's. Fighting it requires ... Sudan. Osama bin Laden seems not to have financed ...View free preview
September 1, 1998 - By ANTHONY LEWIS (NYT) - Opinion - Op-Ed - 733 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=110

111.
TURMOIL IN RUSSIA: THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT; Beyond Personal Faults, The Power of the Office

... heard of Osama bin Laden before,'' a ...View free preview
September 1, 1998 - By CRAIG R. WHITNEY (NYT) - World - News - 1202 words
112.
Pentagon and C.I.A. Defend Sudan Missile Attack

... , and Osama bin Laden, the exiled Saudi millionaire ... connected to Mr. bin Laden. They said that Mr. ... Sudan asked Mr. bin Laden to leave the country. ...View free preview
September 2, 1998 - By TIM WEINER (NYT) - World - News - 487 words
113.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase U.S. Notes Gaps in Data About Drug Plant but Defends Attack; Sudan Envoy Is Angry

... linked to Osama bin Laden, a Saudi millionaire suspected ... plant and Mr. bin Laden was at most '' ... weapons for Mr. bin Laden. ''This plant ...View free preview
September 3, 1998 - By TIM WEINER and STEVEN LEE MYERS (NYT) - World - News - 1267 words
114.
On My Mind; The Days of September

... that Mr. Osama bin Laden was Dr. No -- the ...View free preview
September 4, 1998 - By A. M. ROSENTHAL (NYT) - Opinion - Op-Ed - 766 words
115.
Judge May Change Lawyer in Embassy Bombings

... militant, Osama bin Laden, who the authorities suspect ... member of the bin Laden group, which he tied ... member of the bin Laden organization. By BENJAMIN WEISER ...View free preview
September 4, 1998 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - World - News - 543 words
116.
Bombing Defendant Said to Claim Coercion

... leader, Osama bin Laden. But Mr. Odeh denied ... very little about bin Laden.'' Mr. Sachs ...View free preview
September 5, 1998 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - World - News - 676 words
117.
NEWS SUMMARY

... to capture Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan after concluding they ...View free preview
September 6, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 785 words
118.
MILITANT LEADER WAS A U.S. TARGET SINCE THE SPRING

... to capture Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, according to ... evidence linking Mr. bin Laden to a series of anti-American ... aimed at Mr. bin Laden or to dismantle his terrorist ...View free preview
September 6, 1998 - By JAMES RISEN (NYT) - World - News - 1966 words
119.
Progress in Investigation of Embassy Blasts, Officials Say

... controlled by Osama bin Laden, a Saudi Arabian businessman ... links to Mr. bin Laden, law enforcement officials said ...View free preview
September 7, 1998 - By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr. (NYT) - World - News - 858 words
120.
Security Experts Assessing U.S. Embassies

... associated with Osama bin Laden, the exiled Saudi accused ... allied with Mr. bin Laden were prepared last month to ... predicted that Mr. bin Laden will try to retaliate for ...View free preview
September 8, 1998 - By PHILIP SHENON (NYT) - World - News - 1040 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=120
121.
Corrections

... wife of Osama bin Laden, a Saudi whom the ...
September 11, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Correction - 125 words
122.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Terrorism's New (and Very Old) Face; It's Not the Kind of War the West Fights Well

... ways, Osama bin Laden is a thoroughly modern terrorist ... States, Mr. bin Laden replied: ''You'll ... say that Mr. bin Laden's aims place him firmly ...View free preview
September 12, 1998 - By STEPHEN ENGELBERG (NYT) - Washington - News - 1343 words
123.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase In Manhattan, Third Suspect Is Held in Embassy Bombings

... and of Osama bin Laden, a Saudi-born businessman suspected ... activities of Mr. bin Laden, and was not necessarily ... indictment against Mr. bin Laden was filed earlier this year ...View free preview
September 12, 1998 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 528 words
124.
TRAVEL ADVISORY: CORRESPONDENT'S REPORT; Bombings Cast a Shadow On East African Tourism

... affiliated with Osama bin Laden, the exiled Saudi millionaire ...
September 13, 1998 - By PHILIP SHENON (NYT) - Travel - News - 802 words
125.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase New at Brookhaven: Nuclear Security Lab

... headed by Osama Bin Laden, the Islamic fundamentalist and ...View free preview
September 13, 1998 - By JOHN RATHER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 862 words
126.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase World News Briefs; Taliban Denies Reports It Has Restricted Saudi

... movement of Osama bin Laden, whom the United States ... saying that Mr. bin Laden had not been placed under ... earlier that Mr. bin Laden had been placed under house ...View free preview
September 13, 1998 - (Reuters) - World - News - 202 words
127.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Phone Deal in Afghanistan Catches Many by Surprise

... are harboring Osama bin Laden, the suspected mastermind of ...View free preview
September 15, 1998 - By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON (NYT) - Business - News - 739 words
128.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase BUSINESS DIGEST

... of harboring Osama bin Laden, the suspected terrorist leader ...View free preview
September 15, 1998 - (NYT) - Business - Summary - 1024 words
129.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase No Mercy for Terrorists

... police. Osama bin Laden may be an especially pernicious ...View free preview
September 16, 1998 - (NYT) - Opinion - Letter - 201 words
130.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Carter Urges Inquiry Into U.S. Raid on Sudan

... linked to Osama bin Laden, whom the Administration blamed ...View free preview
September 18, 1998 - (NYT) - World - News - 268 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=190
191.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Bin Laden Was Target of Afghan Raid, U.S. Confirms

... to kill Osama bin Laden and as many of his ... would hit Mr. bin Laden's camps at the moment ... infrastructure of Mr. bin Laden's group is mostly ' ...View free preview
November 14, 1998 - By JAMES RISEN (NYT) - U.S. - News - 1175 words
192.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Saudi Was Target In Raid, U.S. Says

... to kill Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who ... infrastructure of Mr. bin Laden's group was mostly ' ...View free preview
November 14, 1998 - (NYT) - World - Summary - 219 words
193.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase NEWS SUMMARY

... to kill Osama bin Laden and as many of his ...View free preview
November 14, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 2334 words
194.
Corrections

... headquarters of Osama bin Laden, the suspected organizer of ... to kill Mr. bin Laden and as many of his ... not say Mr. bin Laden was the sole target. ...
November 17, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Correction - 123 words
195.
Bin Laden as Target

... Re ''Bin Laden Was Target of Afghan Raid ... admission that Osama bin Laden was a target of the ... 14, 1998 Bin Laden as Target ...
November 17, 1998 - (NYT) - Opinion - Letter - 131 words
196.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Judge Won't Ease Jail Restrictions on Men Held in Bombings of U.S. Embassies

... , including Osama bin Laden, who prosecutors suspect was ... August against Mr. bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan and ...View free preview
November 19, 1998 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 718 words
197.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Taliban Proclaim Bin Laden Innocent in Embassy Attacks

... today declared Osama bin Laden, accused of masterminding the ... trial of Mr. bin Laden, who has been living ... members of Mr. bin Laden's network. Mr. bin Laden ...View free preview
November 21, 1998 - By TIM WEINER (NYT) - World - News - 527 words
198.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase NEWS SUMMARY

... A8 Taliban Supports Bin Laden The Taliban movement, which ... , declared Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile accused ...View free preview
November 21, 1998 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 2101 words
199.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Navigational System Awaits Jamming Test

... bases of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and the Sudan ...View free preview
November 23, 1998 - By MATTHEW L. WALD (NYT) - Business - News - 1967 words
200.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase THE MASKING OF A MILITANT: A special report.; A Soldier's Shadowy Trail In U.S. and in the Mideast

... conspiring with Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile suspected ... ties with Mr. bin Laden as early as 1991. ... documents for Mr. bin Laden's organization, the officials ...View free preview
December 1, 1998 - By BENJAMIN WEISER and JAMES RISEN (NYT) - World - Special Report - 3271 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=560
561.
Corrections

... home of Osama bin Laden, the man wanted by ...
January 1, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Correction - 71 words
562.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase First Day of Jury Selection In U.S. Embassy Bombings

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden to carry out those attacks ... actively investigating Mr. bin Laden for other terrorist acts predating ... to bring Mr. bin Laden to the United States from ...View free preview
January 3, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 877 words
563.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Jury Selection in Embassy Bombing Case Faces Hardship Challenges

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. If convicted, two ... were investigating Mr. bin Laden in the years before the ...View free preview
January 4, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 926 words
564.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Yemen Cites Complicity of 6 in Cole Attack

... possible that Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born financier, ... has accused Mr. bin Laden, who is believed to ...View free preview
January 5, 2001 - (Reuters) - World - News - 271 words
565.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase U.S. Embassy In Rome Sends Staff Home After Threat

... associated with Osama bin Laden's organization, Al Qaeda ...View free preview
January 6, 2001 - By James Risen (NYT) - World - News - 376 words
566.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Security Threat Keeps U.S. Embassy in Rome Closed

... links to Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile believed ... ties to Mr. bin Laden, but there have been ...View free preview
January 8, 2001 - By ALESSANDRA STANLEY (NYT) - World - News - 331 words
567.
American Embassy In Rome Reopens

... attackers to Osama bin Laden, the Saudi millionaire widely ... terrorists. Mr. bin Laden is accused in the 1998 ...
January 9, 2001 - (AP) - World - News - 191 words
568.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Cole Suspect Tells of Link To bin Laden

... orders of Osama bin Laden, Yemeni officials close to ... link between Mr. bin Laden and the attack on the ... connection to Mr. bin Laden, but American law enforcement ...View free preview
January 9, 2001 - (AP) - World - News - 364 words
569.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Bin Laden Shown on TV Tape Smiling at His Son's Wedding

... Osama bin Laden, wanted by the United ... son, Muhammed bin Laden, was performed on Tuesday ... Afghanistan. Muhammed bin Laden married a daughter of Abu ...View free preview
January 11, 2001 - (AP) - World - News - 300 words
570.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase NEWS SUMMARY

... linked to Osama bin Laden and charged in the bombings ... to indict Mr. bin Laden in the killings of American ... attacks. Mr. Bin Laden is thought to be in ...View free preview
January 13, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1120 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=570
571.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase U.S. to Offer Detailed Trail Of bin Laden in Bomb Trial

... tied to Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile in ... to be Mr. bin Laden's cell in Nairobi. ... conversations with Mr. bin Laden himself. American agents searched ...View free preview
January 13, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1646 words
572.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase The Bush Years; W.'s World

... Hussein but Osama bin Laden may gain access to weapons ...View free preview
January 14, 2001 - By James Traub (NYT) - Magazine - News - 5034 words
573.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase One Man and a Global Web of Violence

... Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden had a vision. The ... them. Mr. bin Laden, the Saudi millionaire, ... formation of Mr. bin Laden's organization. '' ...View free preview
January 14, 2001 - By Stephen Engelberg (NYT) - World - Series - 7128 words
574.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase NEWS SUMMARY

... Jihad Leader: Bin Laden Trains for War Osama bin Laden ...View free preview
January 14, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 579 words
575.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase NEWS SUMMARY

... in Jordan Illustrates bin Laden Reach Jordanian and American officials ... of how Osama bin Laden and his deputies, isolated ...View free preview
January 15, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1195 words
576.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Dissecting a Terror Plot From Boston to Amman

... one of Osama bin Laden's Afghan camps, Raed ... one of Mr. bin Laden's chief lieutenants into Al ... group that Mr. bin Laden, a Saudi-born multimillionaire, ...View free preview
January 15, 2001 - By JUDITH MILLER (NYT) - World - Series - 3303 words
577.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase No Headline

... sponsored by Osama bin Laden, the reporter and an ...View free preview
January 16, 2001 - By JUDITH MILLER (NYT) - World - News - 639 words
578.
Killing for the Glory of God, In a Land Far From Home

... , where Osama bin Laden is experimenting with chemical weapons ... Mihraban to Mr. bin Laden's organization Al Qaeda ( ... passed through Mr. bin Laden's camps. American and ...
January 16, 2001 - By JUDITH MILLER (NYT) - World - Series - 3012 words
579.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase C.I.A. Chief Is Asked to Stay On and Agrees

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. Yet the intelligence community ...View free preview
January 17, 2001 - By JAMES RISEN (NYT) - U.S. - News - 787 words
580.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Embassy Suspect Warned U.S. of Yemen Attack, Papers Show

... directed by Osama bin Laden, the fugitive Saudi who ...View free preview
January 18, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - World - News - 560 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=580
581.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Terror Trial Judge to Again Weigh Suppression of Statement

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. The authorities say the ... affiliated with Mr. bin Laden's group, the government ...View free preview
January 19, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 778 words
582.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Public Barred From Hearing in Bombing Trial

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. Mr. al-' ...View free preview
January 20, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 641 words
583.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Cohen Says The Blame For the Cole Is Collective

... linked to Osama bin Laden, the Saudi fugitive accused ...View free preview
January 20, 2001 - By STEVEN LEE MYERS (NYT) - World - News - 790 words
584.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase U.S. Faces Tough Challenge to Statements in Terrorism Case

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden in a terrorist conspiracy that ... member of Mr. bin Laden's group and meeting with ...View free preview
January 25, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 829 words
585.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase WORLD BRIEFING

... fugitive Saudi Osama bin Laden, among other matters. ...View free preview
January 30, 2001 - Compiled by Terence Neilan (NYT) - World - News - 1600 words
586.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase KENYA STATEMENTS IN TERRORISM CASE ALLOWED BY JUDGE

... , including Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who ...View free preview
January 30, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1089 words
587.

... there that Osama bin Laden, named from the outset ... strongly to Mr. bin Laden, they, too, ... proof that Osama bin Laden is the shadowy man behind ...View free preview
February 1, 2001 - By JOHN F. BURNS (NYT) - World - News - 1105 words
588.THE LOCKERBIE VERDICT: NEWS ANALYSIS; Courts a Limited Anti-Terror Weapon

... aimed at Osama bin Laden -- whom Washington accuses of ... links to Mr. bin Laden, no military action has ...View free preview
February 1, 2001 - By DAVID JOHNSTON (NYT) - World - An Analysis - 720 words
589. NEWS SUMMARY

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden, opens in Federal District ...View free preview
February 4, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 728 words
590. Going on Trial: U.S. Accusations Of a Global Plot; In Embassy Bombings Case, The Specter of a Mastermind

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. In some ways the ... led by Mr. bin Laden. ''It sort ... into whether Mr. bin Laden has been involved in other ...View free preview
February 4, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 2664 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=600
601.U.S. Tells Taliban to Close New York Office

... hand over Osama bin Laden, a Saudi-born militant who ...View free preview
February 10, 2001 - (Reuters) - World - News - 249 words
602. Cautious U.S. Hope on Report of Lower Afghan Opium Crop

... United States Osama bin Laden, who is believed to ...View free preview
February 11, 2001 - By BARBARA CROSSETTE (NYT) - World - News - 547 words
603.
February 4-10; Bombing Trial Opens

... aide to Osama bin Laden and described the inner workings ... Qaeda. Mr. bin Laden, the Saudi exile who ...
February 11, 2001 - By Benjamin Weiser (NYT) - Week in Review - News - 181 words
604. NEWS SUMMARY

... aide to Osama bin Laden, left, who the ... look at Mr. bin Laden's world, recounting his ...View free preview
February 12, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1449 words
605. Time-Tested Defense Expected as Terrorism Witness Returns

... aide to Osama bin Laden, the man the government ... look at Mr. bin Laden's world, recounting his ... broke with Mr. bin Laden: he had been caught ...View free preview
February 12, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1202 words
606 Dozens of Afghans Are Dying in the Cold, U.N. Says

... turn over Osama bin Laden, the Saudi financier of ...View free preview
February 13, 2001 - By BARBARA CROSSETTE (NYT) - World - News - 1046 words
607.Terror Exports Are the Business Of Jihad Inc.

... run by Osama bin Laden emerged last week in the ... himself as Mr. bin Laden's former paymaster and the ... , was Mr. bin Laden, the witness said. ...View free preview
February 13, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1007 words
608.
BUSH DETAILS PLAN TO FOCUS MILITARY ON NEW WEAPONRY

... , like Osama bin Laden, can pose a major ...View free preview
February 14, 2001 - By DAVID E. SANGER (NYT) - U.S. - News - 1509 words
609. NEWS SUMMARY

... aide to Osama bin Laden, testified in the embassy ... worked for Mr. bin Laden against the United States, ... agents that Mr. bin Laden ''misinterprets certain portions ...View free preview
February 14, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1074 words
610. Defense Grills Terror Witness On bin Laden

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden testified yesterday under cross-examination in ... proudly for Mr. bin Laden in his war against the ... agents that Mr. bin Laden ''misinterprets certain portions ...View free preview
February 14, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1179 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=610
611. Bin Laden Pilot Says He Helped Buy Jet to Ship Missiles

... freelance as Osama bin Laden's pilot said yesterday that ... once helped the bin Laden organization buy a $200,000 ... joining with Mr. bin Laden in an international terrorism plot ...View free preview
February 15, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 979 words
612.A Decade Beyond the Gulf War

... foe. Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born extremist who ...View free preview
February 18, 2001 - By MICHAEL R. GORDON (NYT) - World - An Analysis - 1131 words
613.
Yemen Holds 2 More In Attack on the Cole

... Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden to the Oct. 12 suicide ... said that Mr. bin Laden is a focus of the ...
February 19, 2001 - (AP) - World - News - 198 words
614. Ex-Aide Tells of Plot to Kill bin Laden

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden testified yesterday that he offered ... to assassinate Mr. bin Laden, and later discussed his ... broke with Mr. bin Laden and agreed to cooperate with ...View free preview
February 21, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 994 words
615.
NEWS SUMMARY

... A3-9 Crackdown on bin Laden Leads to Arrests in Europe ... ties to Osama bin Laden, the Saudi radical accused ... aide to Mr. bin Laden, testified in New York ...View free preview
February 21, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1047 words
616.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Hunting bin Laden's Allies, U.S. Extends Net to Europe

... alarm about Osama bin Laden's militant networks, the ... ties to Mr. bin Laden, a wealthy Saudi who ... agent for Mr. bin Laden in Europe. Jordanian courts ...View free preview
February 21, 2001 - By JUDITH MILLER and SARAH LYALL (NYT) - World - News - 1396 words
617.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Witness in Bombing Case Describes Scouting Mission by 3 Men Near Embassy

... led by Osama bin Laden that resulted in the deadly ... led by Mr. bin Laden, who prosecutors say orchestrated ... broke with Mr. bin Laden's group. Speaking calmly ...View free preview
February 22, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 807 words
618.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Effort to Cut Expenditures Costly for bin Laden

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden told his followers in Sudan ... . But Mr. bin Laden was known as a man ... several of Mr. bin Laden's followers in a conspiracy ...View free preview
February 23, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 834 words
619.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Reporter's Notebook; Absent From the Courtroom, bin Laden Is Everywhere at a Terrorism Trial

... found: Osama bin Laden. Mr. bin Laden, ... Wednesday, Mr. bin Laden's face actually appeared in ... interview that Mr. bin Laden gave to CNN in 1997 ...View free preview
February 25, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 836 words
620.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Varied Portraits of bin Laden Emerge in Embassy Bomb Case

... said, Osama bin Laden liked to relax at his ... member of Mr. bin Laden's group, gave this ... soccer at Mr. bin Laden's farm was no mere ...View free preview
February 27, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 694 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=620
621.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Seeking to Tie Conspiracy to Embassy Attacks

... run by Osama bin Laden, whom prosecutors have accused ... member of Mr. bin Laden's group. When Mr. ...View free preview
February 28, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 849 words
622.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Hectic Pace for Terrorists Before Embassy Explosion

... , where Osama bin Laden, who is accused of ... participating with Mr. bin Laden in a plot that led ... who joined Mr. bin Laden's group, Al Qaeda ...View free preview
March 1, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 876 words
623.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase WORLD BRIEFING

... led by Osama bin Laden; Hezbollah; the People ...View free preview
March 1, 2001 - Compiled by Eric Owles (NYT) - World - News - 1874 words
624.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase PUBLIC LIVES; Technically Speaking, His Biggest Court Challenge

... specter of Osama bin Laden, the distant Saudi exile ...View free preview
March 2, 2001 - By LYNDA RICHARDSON (NYT) - New York and Region - Biography - 917 words
625.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase DESPERATE MIGRATION -- A special report.; Fleeing Famine and War, Afghans Again Meet Death

... accused terrorist Osama bin Laden. Nations donating aid are ...View free preview
March 2, 2001 - By BARRY BEARAK (NYT) - World - Special Report - 2534 words
626.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase AMBASSADOR TELLS OF BOMB'S HORROR

... joining with Osama bin Laden in a terrorist plot that ... known that Mr. bin Laden or his operatives had established ... told about this bin Laden thing going on over there ...View free preview
March 2, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1085 words
627.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase U.N. Pleads With Taliban Not to Destroy Buddha Statues

... Saudi militant Osama bin Laden. Afghanistan is facing its ...View free preview
March 3, 2001 - (AP) - World - News - 857 words
628.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Obliterating History in Afghanistan

... also shelter Osama bin Laden, whose terrorist network murders ...View free preview
March 3, 2001 - (NYT) - Opinion - Editorial - 359 words
629.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Over World Protests, Taliban Are Destroying Ancient Buddhas

... alleged terrorist Osama bin Laden. In recent weeks, ...View free preview
March 4, 2001 - By BARRY BEARAK (NYT) - World - News - 966 words
630.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Reporter's Notebook; When Sensitivities Run High, Parsing the Tone on the Bench

... forces with Osama bin Laden in a global terrorist conspiracy ... The Poetry of bin Laden Mr. bin Laden, it ... reported that Mr. bin Laden read the poem aloud at ...View free preview
March 4, 2001 - By ALAN FEUER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 898 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=710

711.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase For Israeli Defense Chief, No Choice but Optimism

... suggested that Osama bin Laden, the accused terrorist, ... concern that Mr. bin Laden, the Saudi terror suspect ... station that Mr. bin Laden's followers were planning an ...View free preview
June 26, 2001 - By DEBORAH SONTAG (NYT) - World - News - 1008 words
712.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Foreign Affairs; A Memo From Osama

... From: Osama bin Laden To: all field operatives ...View free preview
June 26, 2001 - By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN (NYT) - Opinion - Op-Ed - 842 words
713.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Sharon, in New York, Urges Arafat to 'Put Out Flames'

... allegations that Osama bin Laden, the exiled Saudi dissident ...View free preview
June 26, 2001 - By DANIEL J. WAKIN (NYT) - World - News - 715 words
714.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Trial Opens for Third Algerian In Bomb Plot Before Millennium

... sponsored by Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile, ...View free preview
June 27, 2001 - By LAURA MANSNERUS (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 569 words
715.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Defense Psychiatrist Tells Jury of Embassy Bomber's Remorse

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. The psychiatrist's account ... watched as Mr. bin Laden reviewed his file, and ... drive. Mr. bin Laden, who is believed to ...View free preview
June 28, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 752 words
716.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Essay; Ariel Makes His Point to George

... not let Osama bin Laden dictate to the U.S., ... Everyone has his bin Laden. Arafat is our bin Laden ...View free preview
June 28, 2001 - By WILLIAM SAFIRE (NYT) - Opinion - Op-Ed - 778 words
717.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Jury in Embassy Bomb Case Hears Terrorist's Relatives

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden in a plot to kill ...View free preview
June 29, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 598 words
718.
Bush Decides to Keep Afghan Sanctions

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden a safe haven. Mr. ... has blamed Mr. bin Laden. The order freezes all ... interests by Mr. bin Laden. The American ambassador to ...
July 3, 2001 - (Reuters) - World - News - 194 words
719.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Role of Martyrdom Is Debated In Sentence for Embassy Bombing

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. The jury must now ... ''Osama bin Laden hates us. There is ... used by Mr. bin Laden's group once, and ...View free preview
July 3, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 929 words
720.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase NEWS SUMMARY

... run by Osama bin Laden. Mr. Ressam testified in ...View free preview
July 4, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1031 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=720

721.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase BOMB PLOT INSIDER DETAILS TRAINING

... run by Osama bin Laden. Ahmed Ressam, the ... not mention Mr. bin Laden, the Saudi exile charged ... intelligence of Mr. bin Laden's operations. He described ...View free preview
July 4, 2001 - By LAURA MANSNERUS and JUDITH MILLER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1252 words
722.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Testimony at Bombing Trial Outlines Recipe for Mayhem

... run by Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who ... lieutenant to Mr. bin Laden. Yesterday, Mr. Ressam ...View free preview
July 6, 2001 - By LAURA MANSNERUS (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 829 words
723.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase 'Only You Can Save Your Sons'

... . 'Osama bin Laden,' I shouted back ...View free preview
July 8, 2001 - By Elizabeth Rubin (NYT) - Magazine - News - 8533 words
724.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Exasperated Arafat Says U.S. Should Do More

... Israel's Osama bin Laden.'' He shrugged ...View free preview
July 8, 2001 - By DEBORAH SONTAG and WILLIAM A. ORME Jr. (NYT) - World - News - 1435 words
725.
Jury Rejects Death Penalty For Terrorist

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden, and included the embassy ... charges in the bin Laden investigation, and three others ... , including Mr. bin Laden. He is believed to ...View free preview
July 11, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1253 words
726.
To Prosecutors, He's a Terrorist; to Defenders, a Con Man

... sponsored by Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile accused ... first. Mr. bin Laden's name was never mentioned ...View free preview
July 12, 2001 - By LAURA MANSNERUS (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 816 words
727.
Metro Briefing | New York: Manhattan: Prosecutor Named For Commerce Post

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden in the 1998 bombings of ...
July 12, 2001 - By Benjamin Weiser (NYT) (Compiled by Anthony Ramirez) - New York and Region - News - 71 words
728.
Rights Group Says Taliban Aren't Solely to Blame for the Afghan Disaster

... turn over Osama bin Laden, the Saudi financier of ...View free preview
July 13, 2001 - By BARBARA CROSSETTE (NYT) - World - News - 674 words
729. Foreign Affairs; The Rumsfeld Defense

... agents of Osama bin Laden, Mr. Rumsfeld hastily withdrew ...View free preview
July 13, 2001 - By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN (NYT) - Opinion - Op-Ed - 816 words
730.
Man Is Guilty In Bomb Plot At Millennium

... orchestrated by Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile. ... run by Mr. bin Laden. He said an Algerian ... Indeed, Mr. bin Laden's name was never spoken ...View free preview
July 14, 2001 - By LAURA MANSNERUS (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 975 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=730
731. Reporter's Notebook; Opinions on Death Penalty Spoken But Not Heard

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. ''I still ... others, like bin Laden, he can be a ...View free preview
July 15, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 959 words
732. Sharon Booed by Fellow Rightists Who Say He's Too Soft

... and ''bin Laden,'' referring to ... referring to Osama bin Laden, the Saudi financier of ... ' than Mr. bin Laden, because ''he ...View free preview
July 23, 2001 - By CLYDE HABERMAN (NYT) - World - News - 1012 words
733.
OLYMPICS; More to It Than Games

... financed by Osama bin Laden. ''The big ...View free preview
July 24, 2001 - By DOUGLAS FRANTZ (NYT) - Sports - News - 930 words
734.
Foreign Affairs; Digital Defense

... Saudi terrorist Osama bin Laden might have written to his ... threats from the bin Laden gang. One day after ...View free preview
July 27, 2001 - By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN (NYT) - Opinion - Op-Ed - 807 words
735.
U.N. to Use Experts On Taliban Embargo

... into surrendering Osama bin Laden, the militant who the ...
July 31, 2001 - (Reuters) - World - News - 142 words
736.
Government Pays Over $7 Million for Defense in Embassy Bombings Case

... Saudi exile Osama bin Laden. The costs are also ... who was Mr. bin Laden's personal secretary, $ ...View free preview
July 31, 2001 - By BENJAMIN WEISER (NYT) - New York and Region - News - 1050 words
737. Kenya Opens Memorial Site For Bombing Of Embassy

... followers of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi financier of ...View free preview
August 8, 2001 - By MARC LACEY (NYT) - World - News - 780 words
738.
Taliban Suspect Christian Plot Among Western Aid Workers

... hand over Osama bin Laden, who is wanted in ...View free preview
August 13, 2001 - (AP) - World - News - 540 words
739.
Fighting Terrorists

... elusive militant Osama bin Laden. If we will not ... Iraq and Osama bin Laden half a world away, ...
August 18, 2001 - (NYT) - Opinion - Letter - 169 words
740.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase The Nation: Terminator; Making Rules in the World Between War and Peace

... camps where Osama bin Laden was believed to be hiding ... Washington if Mr. bin Laden, the world's most ...View free preview
August 19, 2001 - By TIM WEINER (NYT) - Week in Review - News - 1411 words

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=full&frow=740

741.
F.B.I.'s Inquiry In Cole Attack Is Nearing Halt

... conclusively to Osama bin Laden, the fugitive Saudi, ... suspected that Mr. bin Laden, from a sanctuary in ... elements of Mr. bin Laden's network in Yemen, ...View free preview
August 21, 2001 - By JOHN F. BURNS (NYT) - World - News - 1426 words
742. NEWS SUMMARY

... F.B.I. Pursuit Of bin Laden in Cole Blast An F.B.I. ... conclusively to Osama bin Laden. A1 Militants Vow More ...View free preview
August 21, 2001 - (NYT) - New York and Region - Summary - 1362 words
743. U.S. Seeking F.B.I.'s Return To Yemen, Says State Dept.

... suspicion that Osama bin Laden, the Saudi militant who ...View free preview
August 22, 2001 - (Reuters) - World - News - 383 words
744.
August 19-25; Cole Inquiry Stalled

... directed by Osama bin Laden, the Saudi Arabian millionaire ...
August 26, 2001 - By John F. Burns (NYT) - Week in Review - News - 164 words
745.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase LIVES; Credible Threat

... schoolchildren to Osama bin Laden, knew where we were ...View free preview
September 2, 2001 - By Christopher Whitcomb (NYT) - Magazine - News - 926 words
746.
Backfire; How Not to Win the Battle but Lose the War

... it offers Osama bin Laden, shows how well that ...View free preview
September 2, 2001 - By CLYDE HABERMAN (NYT) - Week in Review - News - 1284 words
747.
Afghans Present Aid Team's Sins, Complete With Theology Lesson

... accused terrorist Osama bin Laden. But, he complained ...View free preview
September 7, 2001 - By BARRY BEARAK (NYT) - World - News - 1237 words
748.
Article available with TimesSelect subscription or for purchase Reports Disagree on Fate of Anti-Taliban Rebel Chief

... , including Osama bin Laden, are playing an ever ...View free preview
September 11, 2001 - By BARRY BEARAK with JAMES RISEN (NYT) - World - News - 722 words
749.
A DAY OF TERROR: THE THREAT; Bush Aides Say Attacks Don't Recast Shield Debate

... that of Osama bin Laden. Russia gives clandestine aid ...View free preview
September 12, 2001 - By PATRICK E. TYLER (NYT) - U.S. - News - 758 words
750.
A DAY OF TERROR: THE ARABS; Condemnations From Arab Governments, but Widely Different Attitudes on the Street

... focused on Osama bin Laden or related organization, partly ...View free preview
September 12, 2001 - By NEIL MacFARQUHAR (NYT) - U.S. - News - 697 words

<b>My point is that the preceding is just a small sampling of the 748 articles between 1994 and Sept. 11, 2001, in just the NY Times, alone, that made mention of Osama or Usama Bin Laden. Other media outlets also reported about him. Even if half of the NY Times reports duplicated or rehashed previous reporting, to post that he was "unknown".....before 9/11 is as preposterous as not actually reading the 748 articles, to get an actual "picture" of Clinton's at al, efforts to capture/counter Osama. Why not petition L. Brent Bozell III, for permission to actually read what has been published in the "liberal biased" "Gray Lady", instead of the filtered and spun versions that some of you expose yourselves to, in approved Bozell (i.e., "Newsmax", CNSnews.com, mrc.org etc...) and News Corp. (<a href="http://www.newscorp.com/operations/magazines.html">even the Weekly Standard.com displays "News Corp."</a>, at the bottom of the home page on the web....) published conduits ?</b> You may be surprised to find that Clinton was very accurate in his statements to Chris Wallace, televised on sunday, 9/24. He went after Bin Laden, as the law at the time permitted, and he was heavily criticized for doing so, by the same people who mock and denigrate his efforts, again, now

dc_dux · 09-25-2006, 09:08 PM

You're gonna break his mouse again!

ratbastid · 09-27-2006, 05:10 AM

Guess what? An unnamed Taliban official has said Bin Laden is still alive.

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jh...rc=rss/topNews

Quote:

Taliban says bin Laden alive: Al Arabiya TV
Tue Sep 26, 2006 05:38 AM ET

DUBAI (Reuters) - Dubai-based Al Arabiya television on Tuesday quoted a Taliban official as saying al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was alive and in good health.

The Arabic channel said its Pakistan bureau had received a call from the unnamed Taliban official a few days after a leaked French secret document said Saudi intelligence believed bin Laden died last month in Pakistan.

"The official said bin Laden was alive and that reports that he is ill are not true," said Bakr Atyani, Al Arabiya's Islamabad correspondent. "The Taliban checked with members who are close to al Qaeda that these reports are baseless."

Bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahri are believed to be hiding in the border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan. He was last seen in a video statement aired to coincide with the November 2004 U.S. presidential elections.

A report in French regional daily L'Est Republicain last week quoted a document from the DGSE foreign intelligence service, saying the Saudi secret services were convinced bin Laden had died of typhoid.

Saudi Arabia said on Sunday it had no evidence that bin Laden was dead. French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said that as far as he knew the Saudi-born militant was alive.

Bin Laden has issued several audio messages in the past two years, the last one in July 2006 in which he vowed al Qaeda would fight the United States anywhere in the world.

The United States invaded Afghanistan in 2001 to flush out al Qaeda and the government of the hard-line Islamic Taliban movement that supported it after the militant network carried out the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

Notice that the sources on this one (and on the death report) are sort of like a telephone game.

In other news: there are still Taliban officials!

Marvelous Marv · 09-28-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Marv.....I am still trying to figure out when you believe Clinton and when you don't. Is it based soley on when it fits your political agenda or do you have other criteria?

Admittedly I have prefaced it with comments like "Not even Clinton did everything wrong" but there have been a few times I believed him.

But NOT when he described making a decision about bin Laden, and two years later said "Wait! When I said that I was mistaken."

That's on the level of his remembering Monica when she delivered a pizza, but not when she delivered a blowjob.

ratbastid · 09-30-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

That's on the level of his remembering Monica when she delivered a pizza, but not when she delivered a blowjob.

Oh, ok, see, right there, you just lost the argument.

Elphaba · 09-30-2006, 08:04 PM

It justs keeps coming back to "lying about a blowjob" or some other Clinton "sin", when all of the discussion topics here can't be legitimately argued any longer with the conservative talking points du jour. The Politics forum is being deliberately undermined by those that can't or won't provide a source to justify the OP, or a legitimate argument in response to a challenge.

I believe that we have new members and returning members that are participating in this forum once again. My question to our Politics mods is how you are making determinations of an infraction and any points assessed given the current rules and posts? It is not obvious to me, and perhaps new members are equally confused? Politics never should have been or needs to be the horror that it is painted in other Fora by the mods there. A mod admonition for poor behavior in a topic elsewhere, should NOT compare that poor behavior to Politics (a forum never participated by that mod).

I wanted to begin a neutral editorial topic (at least in my opinion) that I believed would introduce an interesting topic for discussion. But it's hosted by TruthOut, so the U2 gang will do their best to kill the topic, as soon as possible, with the usual dismissive ridicule. The insult lies in refusing to read the posted material, and imposing ridicule on both the poster and the article, with no effort to engage in an honest dialogue. I got a yellow warning for making this same comment more than a year ago, but I admit that sarcasm was my mode of communication at that time. I actually don't know of any rule concerning sarcasm, so I suspect moderation has become more fluid rather than ridged.

I ask the mods and admins why they believe anyone would wish to enter a political discussion in this forum that begins with a troll, or an obvious flame is soon inserted to any new topic? Nearly every topic in Politics has to fight it's way past obvious trolling and verbal abuse toward members, who truly do wish to discuss politics in a respectful manner.

I believe this would be a more vibrant forum, with increased membership participation and more varied ideas, if there wasn't the constant, distractive trolling and/or flaming for some unknown need for ego gratification. There is no member here that represents the "Looney Liberal Left" that some in this forum insists exists here. There is also no unified representation of conservatism in our membership. It is no news at all that the members that participate in the Politics forum cannot be distilled into a simple "right" or "left".

The Politics Forum is not the scourge of tfp that it has been painted to be, and that fact has become obvious with a fresh moderation staff. I have seen mod participation in a topic that clearly states a "member" opinion. That one small step clears up so many potentials issues of "intent". In similar fashion, yellow type doesn't require a clarification of intent; the majority of the membership would know that a mod insists that the topic needs a correction change.

I saw the worst possible mixed mod/member horror in another forum. I would suggest that there would be less misunderstandings, if a mod did not post in a topic that that mod is moderating. (Lordy...that is the least understandable sentence that I have written in the last two minutes.)

Some other member suggested that we define a "blame it on Clinton" name that is the equivalent of a "Godwin". I assume Godwin overused the Hitler comparison. We now have a mod/member or two overusing the "Godwin" tag. Someone clever with a poll setup might choose to do this if we throw about a representative number of ideas. So if "Godwin" represents irrelevant comparisons to Hitler, what would be the appropriate comparison for Clinton? "Scaifed?"

New members and returning members have chosen to participate in this forum for a brief time, and every topic dead ends in the same way, by the same inappropriate posts, as has been true since my first day on tfp.

Many of the members that participate in Politics have made the effort to rise to the level of expectation the Hal and his new mods have set for us. Some members continue to believe that they are either exempt from the rules, or that they can tip-toe to the line and piss over the edge, without consequences.

I respectfully suggest that those that continue to attempt to keep the Politics Forum in turmoil, are not only destructive of one forum, but have not shown respect for TFP as a whole.

ratbastid · 10-01-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Some other member suggested that we define a "blame it on Clinton" name that is the equivalent of a "Godwin". I assume Godwin overused the Hitler comparison. We now have a mod/member or two overusing the "Godwin" tag. Someone clever with a poll setup might choose to do this if we throw about a representative number of ideas. So if "Godwin" represents irrelevant comparisons to Hitler, what would be the appropriate comparison for Clinton? "Scaifed?"

We've already given this a name. shakran's Law. shakran was the first of us here to state as a law the tendency of any topic that looks bad for the right to inevitably end up with the phrase "Well, Clinton got a blow job."

Also, it's only called "a Godwin" as a derivative of "Godwin's Law". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

dc_dux · 10-01-2006, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

It justs keeps coming back to "lying about a blowjob" or some other Clinton "sin", when all of the discussion topics here can't be legitimately argued any longer with the conservative talking points du jour. The Politics forum is being deliberately undermined by those that can't or won't provide a source to justify the OP, or a legitimate argument in response to a challenge.

I believe that we have new members and returning members that are participating in this forum once again. My question to our Politics mods is how you are making determinations of an infraction and any points assessed given the current rules and posts? It is not obvious to me, and perhaps new members are equally confused? Politics never should have been or needs to be the horror that it is painted in other Fora by the mods there.
......

New members and returning members have chosen to participate in this forum for a brief time, and every topic dead ends in the same way, by the same inappropriate posts, as has been true since my first day on tfp.

Many of the members that participate in Politics have made the effort to rise to the level of expectation the Hal and his new mods have set for us. Some members continue to believe that they are either exempt from the rules, or that they can tip-toe to the line and piss over the edge, without consequences.

I respectfully suggest that those that continue to attempt to keep the Politics Forum in turmoil, are not only destructive of one forum, but have not shown respect for TFP as a whole.

Elphaba....you have captured my impressions very well. I am relatively new here and initially thought I found a place for reasoned and rational political discourse, even though some opinions, IMO, are over the top and without any basis of fact.

I was amused when I received a 20% penalty for stating what was obvious to many who follow the threads here when I suggested that UStwo generalized about liberals: "I apologize for stooping to the UStwo level. I shouldnt generalize about ALL conservatives here".

The fact that UStwo chooses not to respond to many posts that are directed at a specific comment he makes is also amusing to me. I have experienced this myself. (I ams still looking for an explanation of how Carter "weakened the US" or how Rice explained Bush's "aggressive" response to the threat of terrorism for 8 months"

). I choose to believe he has read them, but just doesnt have a response that is supportable by the facts. *shrug* . It does stiffle debate, but it also makes his position less credible to those who follow the discussion as observers rather than participants.

I will continue to post here for now (even if I get another 20% penalty for this

) and if if my posts dont generate response, so be it. I will still get the "facts" out as I see them, for the readers to consider.

But I am increasingly skeptical of my initial observation that I found a place for reasonable discussions of the politcal issues of the day by people with opposing political perspectives, and so will be looking for a new forum in which I can contribute and learn.

magictoy · 10-01-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

It justs keeps coming back to "lying about a blowjob" or some other Clinton "sin", when all of the discussion topics here can't be legitimately argued any longer with the conservative talking points du jour. The Politics forum is being deliberately undermined by those that can't or won't provide a source to justify the OP, or a legitimate argument in response to a challenge.

This seemed quite legitimate to me:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17020

Quote:

If Only Bin Laden Had a Stained Blue Dress...
by Ann Coulter
Posted Sep 13, 2006

If you wonder why it took 50 years to get the truth about Joe McCarthy, consider the fanatical campaign of the Clinton acolytes to kill an ABC movie that relies on the 9/11 Commission Report, which whitewashed only 90% of Clinton's cowardice and incompetence in the face of terrorism, rather than 100%.

Islamic jihadists attacked America year after year throughout the Clinton administration. They did everything but blow up his proverbial "bridge to the 21st century." Every year but one, Clinton found an excuse not to fight back.

The first month Clinton was in office, Islamic terrorists with suspected links to al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein bombed the World Trade Center.

For the first time ever, a terrorist act against America was treated not as a matter of national security, but exclusively as a simple criminal offense. The individual bombers were tried in a criminal court. (The one plotter who got away fled to Iraq, that peaceful haven of kite-flying children until Bush invaded and turned it into a nation of dangerous lunatics.)

In 1995 and 1996, various branches of the Religion of Peace -- al Qaeda, Hezbollah and the Iranian "Party of God" -- staged car bomb attacks on American servicemen in Saudi Arabia, killing 24 members of our military in all. Each time, the Clinton Administration came up with an excuse to do nothing.

Despite the Democrats' current claim that only the capture of Osama bin Laden will magically end terrorism forever, Clinton turned down Sudan's offer to hand us bin Laden in 1996. That year, Mohammed Atta proposed the 9/11 attack to bin Laden.

Clinton refused the handover of bin Laden because -- he said in taped remarks on Feb. 15, 2002 -- "(bin Laden) had committed no crime against America, so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him." Luckily, after 9/11, we can get him on that trespassing charge.

Only in 1998 did the Clinton-haters ("normal people") force Clinton into a military response. Solely because of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Clinton finally lobbed a few bombs in the general direction of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

In August 1998, three days after Clinton admitted to the nation that he did in fact have "sex with that woman," he bombed Afghanistan and Sudan, doing about as much damage as another Clinton fusillade did to a blue Gap dress.

The day of Clinton's scheduled impeachment, Dec. 18, 1998, he bombed Iraq. This accomplished two things: 1) It delayed his impeachment for one day, and 2) it got a lot of Democrats on record about the monumental danger of Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction.

So don't tell me impeachment "distracted" Clinton from his aggressive pursuit of terrorists. He never would have bombed anyone if it weren't for the Clinton-haters.

As soon as Clinton was no longer "distracted" by impeachment, he went right back to doing nothing in response to terrorism. In October 2000, al Qaeda bombed the USS Cole, killing 17 sailors and nearly sinking the ship.

Clinton did nothing. This is only an abbreviated list of Clinton's surrender to Islamic savagery. For a president who supposedly stayed up all night "working" and hated vacations, Clinton sure spent a lot of time sitting around on his butt while America was being attacked.

According to Rich Miniter, author of "Losing Bin Laden" (published by Regnery, a HUMAN EVENTS sister company), Clinton's top national security advisers made the following classic Democrat excuses for doing nothing in response to the Cole attack:

Attorney General Janet Reno "thought retaliation might violate international law and was therefore against it."

CIA Director George Tenet "wanted more definitive proof that bin Laden was behind the attack, although he personally thought he was."

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright "was concerned about the reaction of world opinion to a retaliation against Muslims and the impact it would have in the final days of the Clinton Middle East peace process." (How did that turn out, by the way? Big success, I take it? Everybody over there all friendly with one another?)

Secretary of Defense William Cohen "did not consider the Cole attack 'sufficient provocation' for a military retaliation."
Less than a year after Clinton's final capitulation to Islamic terrorists, they staged the largest terrorist attack in history on U.S. soil. The Sept. 11 attack, planning for which began in the '90s, followed eight months of President Bush -- but eight years of Bill Clinton.

Clinton's own campaign adviser on Iraq, Laurie Mylroie, says Clinton and his advisers are "most culpable" for the intelligence failure that allowed 9/11 to happen.

Now, after five years of no terrorist attacks in America, Democrats are hoping we'll forget the consequences of the Democrat strategy of doing nothing in response to terrorism and abandon the Bush policies that have kept this nation safe since 9/11. But first, they need to rewrite history.

You seem tired of references to Clinton's share of the blame for 9/11. I have an equal disrespect for those who will discount the facts of the above quote because of whom its author is.

On the basis of the above, particularly Mylroie, a discussion of Clinton's failures is indeed germane to a discussion of 9/11 and bin Laden. In spite of "Shakran's Law", I did not issue the former president a free pass on the day he left office.

That may make me a lawbreaker, but I have plenty of legitimate company.

dc_dux · 10-01-2006, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictoy

This seemed quite legitimate to me:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17020

You seem tired of references to Clinton's share of the blame for 9/11. I have an equal disrespect for those who will discount the facts of the above quote because of whom its author is.

On the basis of the above, particularly Mylroie, a discussion of Clinton's failures is indeed germane to a discussion of 9/11 and bin Laden. In spite of "Shakran's Law", I did not issue the former president a free pass on the day he left office.

That may make me a lawbreaker, but I have plenty of legitimate company.

I havent seen any post here that said Clinton was blameless. We can blame Carter for not responding more aggressively to the radical islamic Iran hostage takers...we can blame Reagan for not responding to the terrorist attack and bombing of the marine barracks in Beruit....we can blame Bush Sr for funding Saddam through "iraqgate"....we can blame 75 years of support for the ruling Saudi family.

The fact is the current occupant of the White House (whomever it may be) is the one who needs to be held accountable NOW. In this case, the current occupant and advisors lied or at the very least, obfuscated or misrepresented the truth, to cover up their own inaction for the first 8 months in office (can someone please show me their "aggressive" action!) and more importantly, continue to do so to justify current policies and practices.

The most disingenuous point of the article was the conclusion:

Now, after five years of no terrorist attacks in America, Democrats are hoping we'll forget the consequences of the Democrat strategy of doing nothing in response to terrorism and abandon the Bush policies that have kept this nation safe since 9/11.

By the "five year" standard "that has kept us safe," Clinton should be applauded for seven years between the WTC attacks. We are not safe and we should all be JUDGING the current policies and practices, not past actions or inactions.

In order to have the faith and confidence of the American people (as Bush did immediately following 9/11), a president needs to rise above the BS, not perpetuate it and make the pile higher.

09-25-2006, 01:35 PM	#41 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	dc why would Rice name a man no one outside of the government had heard of in a speech about terrorism written before 9/11? Obviously there was concern about terrorism or there wouldn't have been a speech in the first place. Secondly I'll let GWB answer some of that.. "When I take action, I’m not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It’s going to be decisive." Third excuses have been made but the Clinton admin made it awfuly hard for intelligence to work together, or gather information, all for appearances. Look up Jamie Gorelick. She did her best to try to wiggle free, but our intelligence community was hogtied under Clinton. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-25-2006, 09:08 PM	#44 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	You're gonna break his mouse again! __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire

09-30-2006, 08:04 PM	#48 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	It justs keeps coming back to "lying about a blowjob" or some other Clinton "sin", when all of the discussion topics here can't be legitimately argued any longer with the conservative talking points du jour. The Politics forum is being deliberately undermined by those that can't or won't provide a source to justify the OP, or a legitimate argument in response to a challenge. I believe that we have new members and returning members that are participating in this forum once again. My question to our Politics mods is how you are making determinations of an infraction and any points assessed given the current rules and posts? It is not obvious to me, and perhaps new members are equally confused? Politics never should have been or needs to be the horror that it is painted in other Fora by the mods there. A mod admonition for poor behavior in a topic elsewhere, should NOT compare that poor behavior to Politics (a forum never participated by that mod). I wanted to begin a neutral editorial topic (at least in my opinion) that I believed would introduce an interesting topic for discussion. But it's hosted by TruthOut, so the U2 gang will do their best to kill the topic, as soon as possible, with the usual dismissive ridicule. The insult lies in refusing to read the posted material, and imposing ridicule on both the poster and the article, with no effort to engage in an honest dialogue. I got a yellow warning for making this same comment more than a year ago, but I admit that sarcasm was my mode of communication at that time. I actually don't know of any rule concerning sarcasm, so I suspect moderation has become more fluid rather than ridged. I ask the mods and admins why they believe anyone would wish to enter a political discussion in this forum that begins with a troll, or an obvious flame is soon inserted to any new topic? Nearly every topic in Politics has to fight it's way past obvious trolling and verbal abuse toward members, who truly do wish to discuss politics in a respectful manner. I believe this would be a more vibrant forum, with increased membership participation and more varied ideas, if there wasn't the constant, distractive trolling and/or flaming for some unknown need for ego gratification. There is no member here that represents the "Looney Liberal Left" that some in this forum insists exists here. There is also no unified representation of conservatism in our membership. It is no news at all that the members that participate in the Politics forum cannot be distilled into a simple "right" or "left". The Politics Forum is not the scourge of tfp that it has been painted to be, and that fact has become obvious with a fresh moderation staff. I have seen mod participation in a topic that clearly states a "member" opinion. That one small step clears up so many potentials issues of "intent". In similar fashion, yellow type doesn't require a clarification of intent; the majority of the membership would know that a mod insists that the topic needs a correction change. I saw the worst possible mixed mod/member horror in another forum. I would suggest that there would be less misunderstandings, if a mod did not post in a topic that that mod is moderating. (Lordy...that is the least understandable sentence that I have written in the last two minutes.) Some other member suggested that we define a "blame it on Clinton" name that is the equivalent of a "Godwin". I assume Godwin overused the Hitler comparison. We now have a mod/member or two overusing the "Godwin" tag. Someone clever with a poll setup might choose to do this if we throw about a representative number of ideas. So if "Godwin" represents irrelevant comparisons to Hitler, what would be the appropriate comparison for Clinton? "Scaifed?" New members and returning members have chosen to participate in this forum for a brief time, and every topic dead ends in the same way, by the same inappropriate posts, as has been true since my first day on tfp. Many of the members that participate in Politics have made the effort to rise to the level of expectation the Hal and his new mods have set for us. Some members continue to believe that they are either exempt from the rules, or that they can tip-toe to the line and piss over the edge, without consequences. I respectfully suggest that those that continue to attempt to keep the Politics Forum in turmoil, are not only destructive of one forum, but have not shown respect for TFP as a whole. Last edited by Elphaba; 09-30-2006 at 10:01 PM..