kutulu

Ovbiously, there has been a ton of press coverage about Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It really bugs me that the press is boiling their statements down to the rantings of silly, crazy people. These are intelligent, powerfull, and serious people whose countries' actions will play large roles in future global politics. Their countries will be major players in the areas of global security, terroism, and energy. They have strong anti-American feelings and are not at all afraid to make their position known. If you don't believe me that they are intelligent and capable people, check their wikipedia entries.

The press coverage of them is atrocious. Professional news companies will play clips of them with silly sound effects or smarmy comments about how they are looney. I'm concerned that due to the sheepish nature of the general public, this attitude about them will lead people to believe that they are nothing more than crazy people that shouldn't be taken seriously. The public needs to take them seriously because many people accross the world WILL. There are plenty of people that are on the fence about us and a strong leaders like them will be able to convert them to their line of thinking.

I'm not complaining about Bush here either. I do think Bush takes them seriously. This isn't really a thread about what Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have been saying or their politics in general, it's about the coverage of them, please keep that in mind.

Willravel

WHAT?

Foreign leaders are like kryptonite to people who are nationalists. I happen to think they should be covered more, but I don't expect that to happen until we've had a few liberal presidents in office.

ubertuber

I was pretty disappointed that the headline of stories about Hugo Chavez's speech have solely concerned themselves with his "Devil" comments, which were merely a rhetorical device. There were more interesting things to notice about what he said. The devil thing was merely decoration.

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Ustwo

Yea lets not forget gems like...

the US empire is on the way down, and it will soon be finished for the good of all mankind.

This is imperialist, fascist, assassin, genocidal, the empire and Israel firing on the people of Palestine and Lebanon. That is what happened. And now we hear, "We're suffering because we see homes destroyed.'


Chavez's speech should have been more wildly covered in full just so we could all enjoy the ranting socialist giving a speech that would have been perfect for the Warsaw pact.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

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Cynthetiq

You know, I recall Lee Kuan Yew, PM of Singapore saying similar rhetoric, then would ask for military aid, court American companies to build and invest within the country. So in one breath he bemoans the US and the other he asks for assistance.

I find it interesting that lots of other leaders have harsh rhetoric to say about America, yet seem to always have hat in hand asking for some sort of aid or help.

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ratbastid

I don't think it's likely that Chavez will be coming looking for US support anytime soon, or at least, not while the current US administration is in power. He's pretty clear he could withhold oil exports and put us in a world of hurt.

Ustwo

Its all just a big plot to FORCE the senate to allow drilling in ANWAR.

But seriously, never give into blackmail.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

World's King

That's true but if you remember, Chavez offered us help after New Orleans broke.




I'm not really sure why his comments were such a big deal. Bush calls out and talks down to political leaders that he doesn't agree with all the time.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

ratbastid

Yep. An offer that was turned down. Heckofa job.

Simple. He's talking bad about our Bushie! Marginalize him! Fast!

Ustwo

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=2&c=y

What were they going to do to help? It was giving the US the political finger, nothing else.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

roachboy

gee, ustwo, nice that you are able to engage in complicated questions in such an insightful way once again.


your posts can be reduced to this:

we're amuricans goddamn it and collectively we have more guns than anyone and so our penis is ENORMOUS and because of that we have no obligation to even pretend to be part of the world community, to take other countries seriously, to think in any complexity about the world, the be curious about information or even be coherent.

we can engineer debacle after debacle and should not be judged by anyone.
you dont like it: fuck you.

whatever doesn't work out we can pretend never happened because we're AMURICANS damn it and ignorance is our god given right.
and if you dont like it: fuck you.

we have weapons---you have fewer: so fuck you.

if your country is on the loosing end of exploitative relations with the united states:fuck you.

if your leaders say anything at all that indicates being exploited is not everyone's happy place: fuck you.

we have weapons systems, we have money, we are AMURICANS: so fuck you.

that's all i see--and even this version gives you more credit that your posts merit.

i wouldnt waste my time posting this were it not for the fact that your "perspective" appears not to be far from that of the band of far right incompetents who presently occupy the white house.
fuck all of us, i guess.

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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Marvelous Marv

Translation: "Fuck everybody that disagrees with me, roachboy. Any viewpoint but mine is a waste of time, and I'll destroy those viewpoints (in my own mind) with an array of strawman arguments."

Unfortunately, most of Congress seems to have adopted your attitude.

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roachboy

huh--so let's see for a second if there is anything of substance to be addressed your "clever" post marv....














no, as it turns out.

try a little harder, marv. put a bit of effort in. maybe someone now already far to the right will take you seriously then. as it stands, i have nothing to say to you. one ustwo is enough.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Ustwo

Marv why did you go and quote him, now I read it and its the usual insults and pseudo-superiority I've come to expect and attempt to avoid.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Ch'i

A nation should never harbor a superiority complex, especially when they owe over eight trillion dollars in debt. There's not room enough for both.

UsTwo, though a bit extreem, roachboy's potrayal of what you've been posting is fairly accurate. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning behind your posts. Hopefully the latter.

roachboy

ustwo: maybe you could improve the situation.

i dont care that you float around way way to the right--i assume that somewhere beneathwhat you treat us to consistently, you actually think about what you believe and have reasons for what you think--but apparently you do not take others (here at least) seriously enough to develop actual arguments. that's your choice: but dont try to blame me for the effects of your own choices in how you comport yourself here.

i would much rather that you put away your "being an asshole is enough for these people" attitude you display and have actual discussions.
it would improve the forum.
think about it.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

World's King

What the hell is wrong with you people?


The moment someone disagrees with you, you get all pissed off and call names. Now I agree that Marv's post was pretty pointless and mean but c'mon on. Stay on topic.

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Locobot

Too true RB.
A-hem! Back on topic, I thought both the Mike Wallace 60 Minutes interview and the the Time magazine cover story treated Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with the seriousness he deserves. It's difficult though to not focus on MA's clearly out of touch beliefs such as Holocaust denial. It's hard to engage in rational debate and dialogue with someone who willfully ignores reality.

As far as Chavez reaching out for U.S. aid, it seems unlikely. Let's not forget that Chavez has already come to the aid of poor Americans..

Elphaba

Host, I have read the 13 page letter, numerous interviews and watched Mike Wallace make a fool of himself. If you read and listen to his words carefully, he isn't denying the Holocaust but confronting the wrongs of WWII and asking why the Palestinians were required to give up their land to right those wrongs. He is repeatedly misquoted in our press about the whole "wipe Israel off the map" as well. With careful reading of his actual statement, you might conclude that he was in fact referring to a true "map" rather than the Jewish people.

In response to the OP, I absolutely agree that we need to become more knowledgeable about foreign heads of government rather than accepting without question what our media chooses to report. Chavez may appear to be the clown, but his influence in the nonaligned countries in South America is profound.

Locobot

I missed Host's post here, or was that some kind of dig at me? I don't get it. Anyhow I didn't think Mike Wallace made a fool of himself, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. As far as his Halocaust denial I was referring to this part:
Who puts who in prison for trying to do research? Anyone who says we have to "assume" the holocaust occured, as if it's still up in the air, isn't exactly in touch...with anything--including reality. How carefully do you suggest we read statements like this? I'm sorry but these questions are quite clear:
What MA is claiming again and again is that moral relativity dictates that his people have the right to nuclear weapons, free trade, etc. But I'm not willing to agree to having moral equivalence with a person who would say the above.

I am a little let down that the U.S. press has now passed up two opportunities to question Ahmadinejad on his alleged role in the 1979 hostage crisis. Not that I would expect him to be honest, but Mike Wallace is famous for making people squirm on issues like this.

aKula

Chavez is probably still a little more than pissed off at the USA due to the support of the 48 hour coup.

As for his policies, some of them are too extreme. Confiscation of private land has taken place and the recently passed law with a long jail sentence for insulting the president. Then there are programs to provide cuban doctors for the poor which I do think is a good thing for the people (I'll leave aside any objections to the policy of supplying oil to Cuba).

Whenever I hear things like this I'm glad that we have <a href="http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/">SBS news</a> here in Australia, they also have many in depth shows reporting events from around the world. The other government funded Australian channel, ABC, has good news as well. Any mistakes and lack of journalistic integrity is usually picked up by another program called <a href="http://abc.net.au/mediawatch/">mediawatch</a>

I've sometimes watched the PBS news, which doesn't seem bad at all. I guess it could be the sign of a mature democracy that the government funded television news are more informative that the private ones. From what I gather from posts from here and slashdot as well, many people realise that reading the newspaper is the best option in remaining informed. I do that as well, but the television news available from the government funded stations are not that bad at all.

As for any bias in the news I consume, I read a conservative newspaper to counteract any slight left bias in the television programs. Now I must emphasise that this bias is at most slight, indeed I think it is nonexistent most of the time. I find reading a conservative newspaper is great for myself as I would describe myself as leaning slightly to the left, it challenges your stance on issues. Their layout and use of language is also superior to their rival paper here where I live.

With these programs and media outlets accesible to me, I have no complaints about the media. I just avoid all the nonsense on the private stations.

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Seaver

/clap, Bravo Host

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powerclown

It blows my mind to watch these 2 clowns' performances taking place in NEW YORK FREAKING CITY, USA. These international pillars of anti-americanism ranting and raving and gesticulating with props, el diablo this, sulfur fumes that - all the while inside the US...sleeping in american hotels, eating american food, watching american tv, being driven around in american limos, getting head from american hookers (sorry..).

I bet these world leaders are all actually buddies in real life, playing poker together, going for bike rides together, drinking together, giving eachother stock tips, oil deals, laughing together hysterically about the stories the press writes about them. What else makes sense after this week's UN performances?

Elphaba

My apologies, locobot. I have had very little sleep and when I saw the Bush avatar I mistook it for host. My profound apologies to host for my error.

He is correct, locobot. It is illegal in Germany and perhaps elsewhere to engage in research with the intent of disproving the Holocaust. A writer/historian (not sure) was recently sent to prison for just that.

In light of the OP I would suggest that no one underestimate the intelligence of Ahmadinejad or how skillfully he uses that intellect. Anyone who wishes to paint him as some sort of madman has been drinking the koolaid.