ASU2003

There are a ton of movies from the perspective of a soldier going to war. But, besides Clinton, I haven’t heard much about the people who decided to leave the country for a while until the war was over (Clinton went to Oxford for a while). My Grandpa fought in WW2, and my Dad had a low draft number when he was old enough, but the Vietnam war was over before they drafted him. And I would fight if some country attacked the USA and was fighting on US soil, but I would want to fight like the insurgents in Iraq. No rules, no uniforms, anyone from that foreign country is a target. I would join the military if I could be covert and sabotage and assassinate in any country, but I just have something against following the current rules of war. Especially if the other side won't follow them.

But, I am not interested in fighting some religious or energy based war, especially one on the other side of the world. When we have done very little to move away from or conserve oil. And I don't understand religion and why people can't just be happy and understand that not everyone has to follow your religion.

So, let’s say I have enough money saved up, a back-pack, and a passport (paid for by the DoD). Where do you go? What do you do? Did anybody here get drafted or avoided the draft somehow? Do you find work just like the undocumented immigrants here in the US do? Do you smoke weed and listen to music all day? What countries will be safe to travel trough or live in? What happened to the draft dodgers after the Vietnam war was over? How much time do you have from when your number is called and when you have to go to war? I can think of 4 countries where I know people and would have a place to stay (Mexico, India, Norway, and Israel...if it is still there). I would probably want to get to Mexico, New Zealand, or India personally.

In reality, I probably wouldn’t have much to worry about. I am in shape, which would put me ahead of a lot of other guys. But, I do have an engineering degree and already work for a DoD agency, so I would most likely do the same kind of stuff if I was drafted.

And yes, I realize that the draft is not likely to happen, but neither is the bird flu, us running out of oil, or a bunch of other events I have a plan for.


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Here is a quote from Gov. Bill Clinton in the 92 campaign on PBS Frontline:

[Quote]
I mean, Dick Cheney, the Secretary of Defense, had deferments all the way through. I didn't have deferments all the way through. But I think he's been a pretty good secretary of defense, I'm proud of the job he's done, and I didn't think one time during that Gulf war that he was somehow incapacitated from being the leader of the Defense Department because he'd had deferments.
[\Quote]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...aftletter.html

Seaver

Well how you dodge a draft is you flee to another country.

There are no guarantees that you'd get a pardon though, so if you dont want to be prosecuted you'll be there a very long time. Have fun.

Elphaba

We don't presently have the draft, but during the Vietnam war there were a number of legal ways to avoid the draft.

- College and seminary students were exempt (Clinton and Cheney)
- National Guard was exempt (Bush)
- One could file for exemption as a conscientious objecter
- Physical and mental disabilites could exempt a person from service

There may be others, but those are the primary ones. Some of those that didn't have these choices fled to Canada and remained there until Jimmy Carter's general pardon after to war ended.

Today, there are deserters that have fled to Canada. There will be no hope of a pardon for those folks imo.

Seaver

That's because it's not a manner of beind drafted, they conciously made the decision, signed the contract, and took the oath. Hope they enjoy Canada because I'd be furious if they get a pardon.

host

During the Viet Nam war, I refused to register for selective service, and then i stayed in the U.S.......kept a low profile, and Carter pardoned us:
I was lucky, ASU2003. When I was a sixteen year old, in the late 1960's, I was fortunate enough to have an HS english teacher that required the entire class to purchase a daily supscription to the NY Times, for the entire school year. I started reading it.....read about the contrived Gulf of Tonkin "incident" that Johnson used to justify escalation of the war. I read about My Lai, the Tet Offensive, the fact that the rich suburban boys used college deferments and family connections to avoid Viet Nam. I was informed by the time I was supposed to register for the draft....it made the decision not to cooperate in any way with the "selective" selective service..... Then I "stayed home", and now I know that I had plenty of "company".....Ford pardoned Nixon, and then Carter pardoned a bunch of the rest of us.

Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received 311.
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Bob Ney: did not serve.
David Dreier: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Bob Barr: did not serve.
Mark Souder: did not serve.
Walter Jones: did not serve.
Katherine Harris: did not serve. .
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Lewis Scooter Libby - did not serve
Condaleeza Rice - did not serve

Ari Fleischer: did not serve.
Andrew Card: did not serve.
Ken Adelman: did not serve.

Don Evans: did not serve.
Michael Ledeen: did not serve.
John Bolton: did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.

Kenneth Starr: did not serve.

John G. Roberts, Jr.: did not serve.
Samuel Alito: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve.

Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Ralph Reed: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
Anne Coulter: did not serve.
Jerry Falwell: did not serve.
Alan Keyes : did not serve.
Ted Nugent: did not serve.
Matt Drudge: did not serve.
Steve Forbes: did not serve.
Tony Snow: did not serve.
Brit Hume: did not serve.
Roger Ailes: did not serve.

<b>I've been an informed skeptic about our government and about the elite class, who decide "who gets what", for a long time.....</b>

Elphaba

ASU, Host is absolutely correct that the draft during the Vietnam war targeted the poor and those without substantial influence. My highschool sweetheart "dodged" the draft by enlisting in the Navy, hoping to stay offshore. He turned out to be lucky by his choice.

I wish to ask why this question of dodging the draft is an issue to you.

ASU2003

It really isn't of a concern to me right now. Just very few people talk about avoiding the draft. The media and politicians portray them negatively, except for the rich kids who got out of it. I was just wondering what their lives were like if they had to leave the US for an unknown length of time. I don't really know if a draft happened today if I would leave the country or not. I know that I could never use the current managers I work with as job references if I did.

And I would probably get put on airplane maintenance or something like that. So, I am probably worring about nothing when it comes to any large wars in the future.

filtherton

The easiest way: tell them you're gay.

ASU2003

I don't know why I never thought about that. I've always wanted to move to San Francisco. I hear it's nice this time of year.

Willravel

I have friends in 13 countries and several accounts that can be emptied elsewhere on a dime. While I am not qualified the be drafted due to a medical condition, my little brother is. There is no way in hell I am losing my little brother in some bullshit war. Frankly, I'd do it for anyone and everyone I could until I was out of friends or money.

And SF really is nice this time of year. Espically in he morning.

qtpye4u84

I have a friend that wanted to join(not be drafted) lol But he was on Antidepressant Medication and ADHD Medication so they would not let him join.
I think its kinda easy to have a doctor prescribe something. I don't know if it could cause you not to get drafted though.

__________________
The QTpie

Gatorade Frost

The easiest thing I can think of is 'Be Gay'

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

guyy

As you know, there is no conscription in the US now. After the "discipline problems" (read fragging of officers) and political upheaval caused by the draft during the Vietnam war, elites around the world have generally chosen capital intensive, mercenary armies. Given the political problems the current regime in the US already has, I wouldn't expect them to reinstitute conscription just yet. But if they do here's a list of ideas men around the world have used to avoid conscription:

1. Flight. The simplest, most obvious solution. There are even people who run away to the US (e.g., young Taiwanese, Israelis, etc.) I suspect this is much harder than it was in the Vietnam era. Very few countries will accept political refugees these days. This means that you will have to apply as a regular immigrant. Not only is that difficult for men of draft age, but it can be a very slow process. Of course you can always live underground in a foreign country, but that's not so easy.
   
2. Extreme weight gain/loss.
   
3. Self-inflicted wounds. Shooting yourself in the foot -- literally.
   
4. Deliberately failing psychological and/or intelligence testing.
   
5. Pissing on examiners desk.
   
6. Drinking a litre of soy sauce before physical.
   
7. Prison. Not so easy to pick just the right crime, and prison seems harsher than it used to be.
   
8. Revolt.

There's more, but that's what comes into mind right now.

djtestudo

Nice list, although there are a couple issues.

One, you include three women, who aren't even eligible for the draft, and two, I only see one person who I recognize for sure as a Democrat (although maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention).

I'd be curious to see a list of promenent Democrats that didn't serve, although I'm sure none of them were given any preferential treatment.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

snowy

Become a teacher.

That's how both my dad and a coworker of mine avoided the draft.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

macmanmike6100

Since you work for the DoD, they've probably been tracking this conversation. So you won't be doing any draft-dodging, anyway, as they're surely have you detained conveniently as you're packing your bags.

Elphaba

You are expecting a logical assignment based upon your civilian background? I wouldn't bet you life on that one.

ASU2003

It is my civilian background working for a military agency. I would probably get forced to train someone who couldn't get sent into battle though.

pan6467

My dad avoided 'Nam by saying he was sole support for my grandmother and that his brother and 1 of his brother-in-laws were there. Actually, I think my dad either burnt his card or had help from his brother-in-law who was an #1 fighter pilot.

Personally, the gay issue really can't be used because they may require proof, andf they are not allowed to ask and you are not allowed to tell. (Don't ask, don't tell).

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Willravel

To clarify what I said above:
I will coincedentally be financially supporting vacations out of the country for people who may or may not be qualified for the draft (I figure it's none of my business). If they happen to be drafted, well it's absolutely none of my business where they are and I'll testify to that.

filtherton

I always thought "don't ask don't tell" meant that they couldn't ask you and you don't have to tell them. If you do tell them then i'm pretty sure they take your word for it. Otherwise, how exactly can you prove homosexuality beyond a reasonable doubt?

samcol

Apparently the draft bill is going to be debated today. I'm not sure how they discover this information though, other than knowing someone inside the beltway. Maybe this draft dodging talk isn't so crazy. It's is interesting that this issue is coming up for debate while simultaneously things are heating up for a war on Iran. Not the mention I've been hearing radio ads lately telling males to sign up for selective service.

stevo

yeah, I don't know about drafting women. Those are our sisters, daughters, and mothers. Its crazy to send them to war, those are the people we're supposed to be protecting. Draft all the men you want...but don't draft those who gave us life.

__________________
"If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

The_Jazz

This universal service nonsense has been banging around for years and its never gotten anywhere. It works very well for the Israelis and is pretty much a disaster for the Russians.

Stevo, as far as women go (and potentially gay men and contientious objectors), it looks like there is a provision for non-military service.

The chances of this even getting out of committee are about the same as someone finally taking away all of dksuddeth's guns.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

stevo

Yeah I see that provision. Looks like a nonsense bill to me, why have a draft for a civillian position? doesn't make any sense at all. These guys have too much time on their hands.

__________________
"If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

Elphaba

This was more or less a stunt on Rangel's part. He was criticizing the so-called "chicken hawks" who are eager to start a war just as long as someone else does the actual fighting.

Nomad

You can do what ChickenHawk Ted Nugent did.

ON MILITARY SERVICE

He claims that 30 days before his draft board physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days, he ingested nothing but Vienna sausages and Pepsi; and a week before his physical, he stopped using bathrooms altogether, virtually living inside pants caked with his own excrement, stained by his urine. That spectacle won Nugent a deferment, he says. "... but if I would have gone over there, I'd have been killed, or I'd have killed, or I'd killed all the hippies in the foxholes...I would have killed everybody." - Detroit Free Press Magazine , July 15, 1990

The World According to Ted Nugent

ASU2003

Because there is a lot of paperwork and non-fighting related jobs that could be filled by draftees. It would save the government/military billions of dollars a year because they could reduce the number of contractors they use.

pan6467

What a brave, brave man. I guess what it boils down to is he didn't like the idea of being hunted.

Anyway, back to the OP...... one can I suppose do what Billy Joel did..... drink a can of pledge, have lemon farts and claim it was a suicide attempt.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Gatorade Frost

I'd shoot myself in the leg 'by accident.' While I'm pro-war, I personally am not made for it. I've never been athletic, and I assure you if you're being shot at you do NOT want me to be running with you because I'll slow the whole group down. Everyone is skilled at something, and I'd make a poor soldier.

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

smooth

kudos for your honesty and audacity.
I wouldn't personally admit I was "pro-war" if I was planning on fucking myself up to get out of it. it would seem, at the very least, you'd be good for something service related...don't underestimate our armed forces!

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Gatorade Frost

I'd be happy to do something I'm good at for the military, but I can't run worth shit and my allergies are terrible 24/7 so I'm constantly sick. Armed service just wouldn't be the right direction for me.

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

Dilbert1234567

i think dodging the draft is a DC 25 dex check... humor aside, some went as far as cutting off their trigger finger to avoid combat.

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Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

Seaver

You'll notice it's a Democrat who put it into place. The Dem's have been doing this since the Iraq war started. It's basically to make people freak out thinking they'll be drafted, and thus hate the war and Bush. It's voted down every time, even the Congressmen who propose the bill vote it down.

Dont get caught up in the fog.

guthmund

You're right.

I can't imagine how you would prove homosexuality beyond a reasonable doubt in the first place. Well...I guess you could engage a definitively homosexual act in front of a member of the military...it's a bit crude, but probably pretty effective.

My guess a nice shade of lipstick and eye shadow would probably be enough to 'discourage' them from putting you in their army.


Just be careful when you try to kiss the recruiter...

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No signature. None. Seriously.

Willravel

No drafting zone.

Hardknock

good one....

Seaver

If you're seen holding hands with a man that's enough for the most part.

frogza

During the physical to enter the military they used to have you drop your pants, bend over and spread your cheeks. I was told this was to check for scarring received during anal.

When I was 18 I tried to enlist, but was turned down because I was too skinny, I was 5 pounds under weight for my height. So as far as the OP question, maybe you can just take some crazy laxative diet for a while before your physical

newtx

As long as there is no draft you don't have to be gay or flat-footed.