zz0011

As being reported in various online and "offline" outlets today ~

"The kidnappers of US journalist in Iraq threatened to kill her, Reuters agency reports. Al Jazeera Television broadcasted a short clip in which the kidnappers threatened to execute the journalist if in the next 72 hours the US does not release all women from Iraqi prisons.

The 28-year old Jill Carol from the Christian Science Monitor newspaper was kidnapped earlier this month by unknown kidnappers who killed her interpreter."

THIS SOURCE: http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?r...0&newsid=80939

It is also being reported that many Islamic voices support her release. According to www.natashatynes.org/mental_mayhem/ this includes:

+ Adnan al-Dulaimi, head of the Conference for People of Iraq / Iraqi Accordance Front [and the man Carroll had an appointment with the day she was abducted]
+ Grand Mosque of Paris rector Dalil Boubakeur
+ The Iraqi Islamic Party
+ The Muslim Brotherhood
+ Muthana Harith al-Dari, a leader of Iraq's Muslim Scholars Association, an umbrella group for a number of leading Sunni clerics, or Ulama

BUT PERHAPS MOST TELLING TO ME WAS WHAT NIHAD AWAD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS, OR CAIR, HAS BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING.

In a Reuters story from yesterday, Awad said, ""We appeal to the kidnappers to release her on humanitarian grounds...Killing her or harming her will harm the cause of the Iraqi people and any cause the kidnappers may hold."

And then, in today's NPR hourly newscast, broadcast at Noon [EST] and available via streaming media at their web site, www.npr.org, Lakshmi Singh [at about the 1 min. 20 sec. mark of this 5 minute broadcast], reporting on Awad and others with CAIR, being in Iraq working for the release of Carroll. SHE QUOTED AWAD AS SAYING, "The abductors have a chance to prove to the world that Muslims are an indulgent people."
-----
Question: Does that mean that all the previous abductions and savage beheadings of innocent westerners, including journalists, "prove Muslims are NOT indulgent?"

Or has that already been proven? With Awad simply having a convenient political memory?

Or WHEN Carroll is murdered -- as I believe she will be -- will we finally be able to shed the PC cover for terrorists in the media and soundly and roundly renounce them, and fully support ALL efforts to fight and defeat them?

I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG ABOUT WHAT I EXPECT WILL HAPPEN TO JILL CARROLL.

I'm sure even if she is murdered the terrorists will still have their apologists on many sides.

Sad, sad, sad...

__________________
10th sig ~> "How many a dispute could have been deflated into a single paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms?" -- Aristotle

irateplatypus

it was a bit difficult to parse that post... using the [quote] tag may help.

i'm struck by the idea that muslim "indulgence" can be exhibited by not slaughtering a kidnapped woman. wow.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

NCB

"unknown kidnappers" is the new term for bullshit, antiwar propaganda stunts. Anyone ever wonder what happened to the "peace activists" who were kidnapped weeks ago by a "previously unknown group"?

__________________

Charlatan

The peace activists fate is still unknown. They have not been reported alive or dead.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

NCB

Odds are they're laying low in Istanbul drinking Turkish coffee until all is clear.

__________________

highthief

So, is the release of a group of prisoners this week - including the majority of female prisoners in Iraq - a coincidence or are US authorities "giving in" to the kidnappers to secure the release of Jill Carroll?

From the Beeb:

US to free Iraqi women prisoners

Insurgents have often called for all Iraqi female prisoners to be freed
The US military says it will release five Iraqi women detainees, after concluding there was insufficient evidence to charge them.

The women will be freed on Thursday or Friday as part of a release of 419 Iraqi prisoners.

US officials denied the release was connected to a demand by the kidnappers of a US journalist that she would die unless all women prisoners were freed.

Gunmen abducted Jill Carroll in Baghdad's Adel district on 7 January.

Ms Carroll, who was reporting for the Boston-based Christian Science Monitor, was going to meet Sunni leader Adnan al-Dulaimi when she was seized and her translator fatally wounded.

"Let me assert that there is no connection between the release and kidnapping of the US reporter. The release was finalised after a review by the Iraqi-US board," a US spokesman said.

Jill Carroll has been reporting in the Middle East for the past three years

The demand that all Iraqi female prisoners held by coalition forces should be released was made in a video of Ms Carroll which aired on Arab TV channel al-Jazeera on last week.

It is not the first time that the abductors of Western hostages in Iraq have called for the release of women prisoners.

In October 2004, Briton Ken Bigley and two American hostages were beheaded by members of al-Qaeda in Iraq, who had demanded female prisoners be freed.

The British aid worker Margaret Hassan, abducted in November 2004 and later murdered, appeared in a similar video calling for foreign troop withdrawals and the release of women prisoners.

In other news, the US military said one of their soldiers was killed and another wounded in a roadside bomb attack south of Baghdad on Wednesday.

The soldiers were part of Multi-National Division-Baghdad, the US statement said.

Three Iraqi soldiers were also killed and four wounded on Wednesday in a similar incident north of the capital, Iraqi police said.

Lt Amir al-Ahbabi said the bomb exploded on the Baghdad-Mosul highway in the al-Ishaqi area, some 90km (55 miles) north of Baghdad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4649714.stm

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

xepherys

Conspiracy much?

NCB

Nope. Care to make a sig bet on it?

__________________

zz0011

Zactly

NOTE:
The following errors occurred when this message was submitted:
The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

__________________
10th sig ~> "How many a dispute could have been deflated into a single paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms?" -- Aristotle

NCB

# of days until her "captors" become compassionate/or her remarkable "escape":

Over/Under- 14

__________________

zz0011

compassionate muslim: oxymoron

__________________
10th sig ~> "How many a dispute could have been deflated into a single paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms?" -- Aristotle

hunnychile

I find this Most Disturbing that NO ONE in America is trying to get this young woman freed!!! It goes against everything we American used to fight for and believe.

WTF People!?

Is she still alive or will the republican media just leak a small story saying that she is dead due to circumstances...on the back page of a few obscure newspapers in the U.S.A.

God help them Father for they know not what they do.........

__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

politicophile

What goes against everything America stands for is capitulation to the demands of terrorists. If we obey the demands of the terrorists, they will learn that threatening to kill kidnapped civilians is an effective method of achieving their political goals. Thus, they will use the tactic again... and again.

If we wish to end the cycle of violence, we must show the terrorists that their kidnapping efforts are pointless: we must not give in.

__________________
The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

djtestudo

I think the fact that there are continuing messeges from her kidnappers saying, "This time, we MEAN it...really, we do...no, seriously..." tells us everything we need to know about what we should be doing.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

albania

The question comes to mind what is the US doing to solve the situation? I don't think ignoring it will really help. However, I also don't believe we should give in, rather, the army should try some sort of rescue attempt, if possible, are they even looking for her? That's the real issue for me, if I was in that situation I would hope that someone would be out there trying to rescue me, that is actively working towards a solution. Perhaps the US is, but I haven't really heard of any effort mounted towards this goal. I understand the principle of not negotiating with terrorists, but, what I have in mind isn't negotiation (something along the lines of killing the captors). In rebuttal, I can see how the adage, "easier said then done", makes sense in this situation. In any case, I do feel truly sorry for the situation that reporter is in.


NCB sorry to be off-topic but perhaps an avatar from http://www.supportdenmark.com/ might convey the same message without the possibility of being offensive.

dksuddeth

I would imagine that the military is doing everything they need to do in order to search for her and find her. thats the only real solution. appeasement or capitulation will only embolden the terrorists/kidnappers to do it again and again.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Mojo_PeiPei

Building off of what DK said I doubt it would be advantageous for the girl or the armed forces if we "knew" what their plans were.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Rekna

If the government wants to help they need to put out the propaganda machine in Iraq and let people know that she has been kidnapped and then let them know what she was doing there. Paint her has an innocent person who is there to help only. Paint her as a person who cares about the Iraqi people. If the Iraqi people can be drawn to sympathize for her then the captors would be hard pressed to do anything to her, especially since she is a woman. If they did do something to her it would be a major PR blunder for them and could turn more Iraqi's against them. The power in this war comes not from guns but from the support of the locals.

Bill O'Rights

The only time that you are going to hear of any sort of rescue attempt, is after it has either succeeded...or failed. Military operations are conducted on a "Need To Know" basis. Frankly, albania...you do not have the need to know. Because if you know...then, in all likelyhood, so do the insurgents. I can't immagine a quicker way of getting her killed.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

albania

Of course, you do speak the truth, my concern was the perception of inactivity. I do understand that full disclosure isn't a logistically feasible; still...there is just something not right about waiting.

Seaver

So are you saying you'd have a happy feeling in your stomach if the Admin said they're doing everything they can?

They are, they have said it, however the situation is the same until we rescue her or find her dead.

albania

No, I'm saying that the situation bothers me.

Bill O'Rights

I think that the "situation" bothers everybody, albania. It's just a huge shit sandwich. However, I don't think that anything is gained by keeping it constantly in the press, thus giving more attention to her captors, which is what they want.
I don't believe, for one minute, that this administration is simply trying to sweep this under the rug to let it "cool off", if that's what you're worried about. There are things going on that you and I will never be privy to. And trust me...that's the way you want it.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

albania

I don't think the administration has any blame in this case; however, perhaps, my concern is rather more naive than concretely based.

Seaver

Your concern is well founded. An innocent girl who was trying to make Iraq a better place has been captured and held for a long time.

However there's not much as a regular citizen we can do that would actually help her situation.

NCB

I was off a few days, but still correct nonetheless.

__________________

zz0011

I am glad I was wrong IN THIS CASE.

I am glad for Jill and her family.

But the truth is most of these types of cases end in beheadings and death.

Why won't the US media show that?

Too busy with pictures of naked prisoners with underwear on their head and a leash on their necks?

No, I'm not condoning that -- but the media seems idiotic at best and duplicitous at worse for not proclaiming truth.

When the fellow in VA {?} ran over a bunch of students on a campus, and said he did it to avenge the deaths of Muslims, where was the hue and cry in mainstream media about the hate crimes, etc.?

Yes, I can still hear the echoes of the crickets...

Again, I am very happy to be wrong and that Jill is safe.

It would be great to think the Muslims would do this in every case, but history argues very strongly against that.

__________________
10th sig ~> "How many a dispute could have been deflated into a single paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms?" -- Aristotle

Poppinjay

What newspaper do you take? The Tumblewood Times? I've seen all the stories about the various beheadings of innocents. And Jill Carroll was the lead story for days after her capture and was the lead story at most media outlets today.

And the grad student who ran over people was at UNC-Chapel Hill. I heard about it via the mainstream media.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

highthief

Actually, they don't. Most end in release of the prisoner one way or another. Via spontaneous release, rescue or ransom.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

ubertuber

I also feel like I see a story about somebody being beheaded or otherwise executed every other day - and that's not counting the bombings.

I check the NY Times a lot (since it's my hometown news) - can't get much more "mainstream" than that!

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

zz0011

I did not mean to leave the impression they don't cover the stories.

I guess I was trying to object to the way they cover it.

And I'm sure my opinion is in the minority around here.

__________________
10th sig ~> "How many a dispute could have been deflated into a single paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms?" -- Aristotle