Willravel

This sounds like an interesting combination of alternate psychology with loose religious ties. I must admit, this looks interesting. Reading on.
When I watched todays episode of South Park, I figured that it was simply a joke ridiculing a religion. I was mistaken in that assumption.

So....now that we have a ballpark idea of what Scientology is, do you have any thoughts? I know my first thought is wondering how people can listen to this story and be spiritually inspired. Of course, I know that my belief in a 2000 year old carpenter/living God really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, too. Can you compare thefesability of these two stories, really? Boy, this is an intersting religion.

shakran

Ha! I KNEW you'd watched southpark. Yeah, I looked some stuff up after the episode myself. I was surprised to learn that the "alien banished spirits infecting people" story was really what they teach.

Redlemon

I took a class in college about cults. I found the belief systems of both the Moonies and Krishnas to be internally consistent and interesting. I can't understand how anyone would be drawn to Scientology.

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Willravel

The thing is that I do feel badly for laughing at something that people take so seriously, and even live their lives for. I realize that it's probably a fad for some people, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who take this to heart and believe it. I know that people joke about Christianity, and I can laugh along too, but not everyone is like that. When I read "...being run over by a Martian bishop driving a steamroller...", sure a part of me laughed. Hard. Does the Catholic church recognise bishops on mars? But upon reflection, this was an infantile response.

Are there any scientologist people out there that want their say?

Ustwo

Why?

If a million people are doing something stupid, its still stupid. Why people acting stupid can be funny I don't know, but it is, so enjoy the laughter.

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shakran

The odd thing is that we tend to laugh at scientologists because they think people who lived in the sky came down to earth and made people do stuff.

but christians think a man who lives in the sky came down to earth and made people do stuff.

I guess what I'm driving at is, at what point does a cult/fringe religion become a legitimate religion, and vice versa.


If you look at it hard enough, there's not a whole lot of differences between the scientology story and the story about how the mormons got started. In scientology alien spirits came down to earth and infected people. Pretty far fetched.

But in mormonism, Joe Smith found some tablets written in a language he didnt' know. With the help of a convenient angel who told him what the tablets meant, and by looking into his hat for awhile (and also using the Urim and the Thummim, which are supposed to be Hebrew relics - - -what exactly some dude in the united states was doing with them, is never explained), Smith translated the tablets into the book of mormon. I mean, really, that's pretty bloody far fetched as well.

Yet mormonism is considered a legitimate and often respected religion while scientology is largely considered to be a gaggle of idiots playing make-believe.

It's curious how that happens.

SERPENT7

Mormons teach their followers to self-reliant, but obedient.
They require you to tithe.
They support you in times of hardship.
They exile you if you REJECT thier teachings.

Scientologists seek out the weakest, most vulnerable people. (The 'questionare' they use to get people interested in them is 400 questions long, and is mostly filled with questions designed to diagnose various forms of Borderline Personality Disorder.)
They bilk thier followers for as much money as they can, using the 'progressive revelation' theory of spiritualism (Stolen from free-masonry, among other groups).
At the higher levels, people are REQUIRED to sign over ALL of thier personal assets, including bank accounts, house etc. (This is rationalized as the best way to shelter your assets from taxation, but in truth they will kick you out of YOUR own house if you try to leave the 'church'.)
Scientologists use serial harrassment against ANYONE that crosses them, or publishes anything damaging. (The FBI used to consider them a crime syndicate, they were so bad.)
Once Hubbard died, they changed tactics, but it is only a matter of degree, not kind.
Also,
the reason so many celebrities are into it is because the hollywood branch is basicly just protestant-lite. They do not get treated the same as an ordinary schmoe. (Tom cruise has not signed over a single cent, but considers himself an OT. It is also rumored that Toms involvement with this group led to his divorce. Rumored, mind you.)

ziadel

Scientology is thinly veiled nazi'ism.


I can't remember his words verbatim, but hubbard wrote something to the effect of "everyone below 2.0 on the tone scale should be rounded up and disposed of."


/fucking hates nazis.

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tecoyah

Scientology is a wonderful thing.

I have never seen a better IQ test

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Tashah

In academia, Scientology is classified as a pseudoscience (i.e.. astrology, pyramidology, palm reading, perpetual motion etc.).

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Bill O'Rights

Perpetual motion is a pseudoscience?

You don't have three year old, in your house, do you?

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Charlatan

Amen Brother...

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raveneye

My POV is as a scientist and an atheist . . . .

I don't see any essential difference between Scientology and any other religion. To me they are equally sensible or equally ridiculous. But, that does not mean they don't have an important and valuable function for their adherents. I see that function as essentially an allegorical way of coming to an understanding of oneself and one's relationship to other people and the world, and of finding some kind of inner peace with the fact of death. There are many routes to these ends, and I don't see one route as being inherently any better than any other.

Anyway thanks for the education on Scientology, it's an eye-opener for me.

Ustwo

While to me all religions are somewhat ridiculous, Scientology stands out as sort of supercalafragilisticexpealidocious-ridiculous. From its founding on down it screams fraud, it offers almost nothing, and I think you have to be very weak minded to 'join up'.

I did just see the south-park episode, and the best part was the credits. Scientology is known to sue basically anyone who makes fun of them and having all the names in the credits John and Jane Smith, was a nice touch.

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silver_mystery

i agree with all religions being somewhat ridiculous. people agrue, fight, and kill over organized religion.

beleive what you want. it's when you begin to try to force it on me that i get really pissy.

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shakran

All good points, but I was talking more about the beliefs than the tactics. By which I mean, is it really more ridiculous to have alien spirits invading your body than it is to use a tophat as a universal translator?


Oh, and BTW, many, if not most, Mormon rituals are also stolen from the freemasons

Johnny Rotten

Advancement through the ranks comes at an increasingly high "contribution" of both money, time, money, and more money. To step onto the Freewind would cost a small fortune. Scientology does a brisk and extremely profitable business in creating and exorcising non-existent demons from the affluent and the ignorant. The inclusion of ranks is a feature nearly unique to this group, as a religion typically follows a flock-and-shephard dynamic, not ranks you gain through time, money, and just a wee bit of volunteering to spread the good news. And money. And did I mention there's a lot of money involved as well?

From what I know about human nature, the "Hidden Truths" are crackpot revelations that you will, by the time you reach them, embrace wholeheartedly. Right after you've signed the check. That Hubbard connivingly constructed this religion as a profit motive may never be clearly known, but what is known is that Scientology makes a lot of fucking money for itself while making its followers feel better about things that might or might not have happened to them.

Last but not least, they rabidly descend upon anyone who splits from their camp and reveals those crackpot revelations to a public that has not been conditioned to accept such information. That bit about Scientology encouraging its followers to scrutinize its values is, for lack of a better word, bullshit. Because you will be quickly and expertly evangelized, and they know this. If you refuse to be evangelized, they will merely pity you and move on to another opportunity.

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mew

I was always wondering what Scientology was about. Two coworkers of mine go out every year to these Scientology classes and pay a disgusting amount of money to attend them. Everytime they come back, theyre cranky as ever and now they take every break they can, and scam tons of work to other workers so they can go for 10-15mins to do something secretive. They do this seperately, and cover the windows and must NOT be disturbed by any means. They keep their books or whatever in SAFES. Definetly a cult and its not something I want happening at work.

Johnny Pyro

I guess Scientology is really out there, but isn't every religion? I mean a magical all knowing powerful being in the sky who watches over us and knows if we are bad or good and then judges us when we die and decides where we spend all eternity.

Then on the other hand we have aliens and Tom Cruise.

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Mantus

To me a cult is a religion without political power. Thus I qualify Scientology as a religion.

I have nothing against their beliefs, a burning bush in the middle of the desert telling some guy how humans should live their lives is pretty out there as well. Oh sure you can say Christians don't take is seriously, well perhaps Scientologists don't take their teachings seriously either.

Religion in general provides three things for people: a comunity, sence of purpose and therapy.

My only beef with Scientology is that it's an open scam for people's money. I know that other religions expect "contributions" but it seems that Scientology's doctorine is designed for the specific purpose of controling and depriving their members of their material means. I think it's dishonest and as low as it gets.


On another note, isn't Isaac Hayes (Chef's voice) a Scientologist?

cyrnel

Here's a very weird Flash of the Cruise/Lauer interview found on Boing. I couldn't make it all the way through. Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt...

http://www.zefrank.com/alien_art/

Combined with the South Park espisode I think it's time to hide in a closet.

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ratbastid

Yeah! The way the episode ended was great--basically Kyle's standing on his front porch screaming, "Go ahead! Sue me! I'm not afraid of you! Sue me!"

At this point I'm thinking, "Damn, those guys have some balls!"

Then the credits hit the screen, and I fall out of my chair howling. Brilliantly done.

Of course, I fully expect they WILL get sued...

guthmund

That whole episode was brilliantly done. It was, by far, the funniest one I've seen in a while.

I have no problems with Scientology. To me, it really is no different than any other organized religion except that Scientologists pay for access, which, in my opinion, makes them just a bit more stupid than their Christian/Jewish/Muslim/whatever contemporaries.

I just can't imagine the...disconnect?...one has to have to become a Scientologist. I guess it's the same with all religion; Mohammed and his angel (Gabriel, wasn't it?), Moses and the Ten Commandments, Jesus and his resurrection all seem a bit out there, but that Scientology bit...wow.

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Johnny Rotten

Oh, I'm not saying that Christianity is a shining example of what a religion should be. Don't get me wrong. I am only occasionally Christian, most often preferring a troubled agnosticism. But, unlike Christianity, there is a lot more literality (don't know if that's a word, actually) in Scientology teachings.

Of course, there's the other side of the coin, where you could make a persuasive argument of Scientology as a tax shelter for the well-heeled, but it doesn't look like that's what Tom Cruise is going for. He seems to have dived into the deep end, when I would have had him pegged as a tax shelter guy.

Either way, the prime tenets look largely borrowed from Hinduism and Buddhism (reincarnation, subjectivity of truth, and Nirvana in the guise of a "native state of total freedom"). And I'd frankly become a Buddhist or Hindi long before following anything manufactured by a misogynist, bigoted, homophobe convicted of fraud and extortion and whose top-ranking officials have also been convicted of fraud, burglary, forgery, obstruction of justice, breach of public trust, filing frivolous lawsuits, interfering with witnesses, involuntary homicide, money laundering; and pending trials regarding false imprisonment, assault, extortion, kidnapping, defamation, invasion of privacy, racketeering, wrongful death, practicing medicine without a license, battery, and oh, brainwashing.

Yes, I'm sure you could find examples of high-ranking officials of other faiths engaging in such crimes. But you have to admit that this particular group has managed to rack up an impressively sordid history in a relatively small amount of time.

Here's a handy little library of data to pore over: http://www.rickross.com/groups/scientology.html

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Lebell

Just a point: Christianity doesn't require you to buy anything, nor are there any big secrets.

As to scientology, I could only echo what Ustwo has said even while I laugh at them.

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Xiangsu

There are a few things about Scientology that make it less credible than say Christianity:

1. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, was a science fiction writer...


2. Scientology asks you to give them money

3. Before L. Ron Hubbard founded Scientology he said, "If you want to make a million dollars, start a religion."

With that, I would like to quote Maynard of the band Tool, "Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones."

raeanna74

I honestly have been reading up on scientology lately. It started when I'd heard about Cruise following it and was curious what about it had drawn him. Then I found a book by Hubbard at the Dollar store. It started out with common sense stuff like you 'when you really listen to others you learn about yourself as well.' Or that Medication often consists of chemicals that can harm your body. Well duh - that's why we have maximum dosages and such and why we want to avoid meds unless we truely need them. But then the book started to get confusing and talked a LOT about personality disorders. You could turn practically ANYTHING into a personality disorder if you look hard enough. I'm not looking to turn myself into a walking psychotic.

I wasn't aware of the alien theories and all. That sounds messed up. I did notice that many of the 'tenants' seemed borrowed and that actually bothered me the most. What was so original about this?? I think I could follow Buddism easier than I could follow Scientology.

(Plus Ron Hubbard looks ugly to me. )

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Cynthetiq

If you haven't seen the south park episode to see the whole Xenu imagery...

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherl...ection%3D24232

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Cynthetiq

I hope you also noted that the credits were all John and Jane Smith... from Exec Producer to Animators... everyone was a Smith.

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ratbastid

Yeah, well, that was funny, but it wouldn't actually protect Trey and Matt from litigation. Scientology has demonstrated itself very willing to use the legal system as a tool against its detractors. That's what makes the joke at the end of the episode work.

I think coming right out and having the leader of Scientology say, "Don't you get it, kid? It's a scam! It's all a giant, global scam!" could easily be used as grounds for a libel suit (*cough*however true that may be*cough*).

Sue

scientology is just a huge money-making scheme IMO. I wouldn't even call it a religion. It's sad to think there are /that/many/ ignorant, naive people out there that would actually dump their change into that BS.

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Derwood

If you haven't seen the South Park about mormonism, it does just as good a job picking that ridiculous religion apart

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zz0011

I suppose interesting is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with those who have posted that a personal faith in Jesus makes more sense than Scientology, and I believe more than most other things. It does appear more on this list would disagree. But since willravel invited thoughts, I thunked.

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trickyy

yeah, i think it's crazier than most ideas. it's kind of like supporting Larouche for president. some would say "vote for who you trust, all cadidates are kind of shady at times." that just doesn't give justice to the nuttiness at hand.

i think dianetics was originally a self-help book, right? from what i've seen, that writing is not strange as what later sprung forth.

Ustwo

As a kid after seeing the constant adds for it, I read it a bit at the library and quickly stopped since his constant footnotes made me think it was obviously written for morons.

You don't get the wacky nature of scientology out of Dianetics, thats just a primer, the wacky stuff comes after you spend a lot of money.

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Seeker

I always appreciate your posts raveneye This is so spot on.

I don't think it's right to be labeling anyone as stupid, ridiculous... whatever.

It might not work for the non-believers, but if it makes them happy, why slam them?

Sure, some may be taken for a ride, but they are responsible for deciding to either continue or discontinue their involvement. There are enough scams out there that don't even come close to religious matters... are you going to save every single person from every potential threat, as seen in your eyes?

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zz0011

Morons? No... Susceptible sheep perhaps.

The financial point you make is way too true.

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