Does God Suffer? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MacGnG · 10-31-2003, 01:50 PM

Does God Suffer?

Considerations:

We suffer now.
We won't suffer in the afterlife.

GakFace · 10-31-2003, 01:54 PM

Oh course he does. I believe we're on earth to figure out what kinda people we are. THIS is our test. Well he put us here and he's seeing who is actually a cool person or not. Yeah yeah all powerful guy, he still can't read 2 billion minds at once. We're here, and there are some people that are insane and killing everyone possible just for shits and giggles.. I think with God having to notice all of this, or notice that people just aren't getting it because not everyone is making it to heaven, THIS is why I think God does suffer. Just as he suffered when he had to throw the devil and 1/3 of the other angels into hell.

Lebell · 10-31-2003, 01:58 PM

It depends on your paradigm.

Certainly the gods of other mythologies have suffered to various extents; Zeus, Odin, Osirus, etc.

But I'll assume since you haven't specified that you mean the Judeo-Christain God.

Yes, I believe God suffers and that suffering comes from the pain inflicted by the sin of Human kind i.e. a rejection of God*. God also suffered physically in the form of Christ.

(*akin to our own "suffering" when we are rejected by someone we love deeply.)

chavos · 10-31-2003, 10:13 PM

i will simply quote one of my favorite liturgies:

"God, you have carried us in our pain, wept beside us in our sin, and waited for us in our confusion."

IMO, a love could only be God if it were large enough to see and know all the pain of the world, and still hope beyond it.

Mael · 10-31-2003, 10:53 PM

well, i don't believe in god, but if the christian god is "true", and we are made in "his" image, then since we have the capability to suffer, "he" must have the capability to suffer.

MacGnG · 11-01-2003, 09:55 AM

All very good points, which I agree upon.<hr>The opposing view helps one to strengthen his own view.
Can anyone give some reasons why He doesn't, if any? --

The only thing I can think of is that, if God has freewill He could choose not to suffer, although I don't see a reason why he would choose to do so. (the freewill issue is another thread)

MSD · 11-01-2003, 11:18 PM

My understanding is that most religinos teach that sin offends God; I would conclude from that statement that God is capable of suffering. Whether God would choose to suffer is another subject entirely.

I can't decide one way or the other.

WarWagon · 11-02-2003, 07:30 PM

I'd think that if he did exist and as mentioned we were made in his image, then if Jesus really was the son of God, and God sacrificed him, then he would be capable of suffering just as we are.

Moonduck · 11-02-2003, 09:32 PM

From what I recall of cross-faith classifications, Christ is an archetypical "Suffering God", a figure that suffers as his followers suffer.

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-03-2003, 12:30 AM

I think you guys are trying to classify a God beyond human understanding with human characterstics. Its tough to say really though, sin and rejection of God could probably cause him some sadness.

manifest_deity · 11-05-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mael
well, i don't believe in god, but if the christian god is "true", and we are made in "his" image, then since we have the capability to suffer, "he" must have the capability to suffer.

So if I have a pimple on my nose, God has a pimple on his.....nose? You need to asses what it means to be created in God's image a little better. I personally think that to be created in God's image means to have choice. But, to asses the topic, I do think that God suffers. Actually, chavos said everything I wanted to say. Jolly good!

Tman144 · 11-05-2003, 09:40 PM

I've always been lead to believe that when we are created in his image its not in the physical sense, but as in our souls are in his image. We can think and reason and all the other characteristics that put us above animals. Its these qualities that are in his image, not pimplely noses.

empu · 11-05-2003, 10:25 PM

Do dogs suffer? Do trees suffer? Do rocks suffer? Does water suffer? Does light suffer? Do ideas suffer? Does pain suffer? Answer these questions before you jump to the hard stuff.

Tman144 · 11-05-2003, 10:29 PM

Yes, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Ok, thats done, lets continue with the hard stuff.

MacGnG · 11-09-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
Whether God would choose to suffer is another subject entirely.

I was just thinking that if God chooses not to suffer he would be more human-like than we thought.

empu · 11-09-2003, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tman144
Yes, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Ok, thats done, lets continue with the hard stuff.

What characteristic does a dog have that a tree lacks that causes you to say that dogs suffer while trees do not?

MacGnG · 11-10-2003, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by empu
What characteristic does a dog have that a tree lacks that causes you to say that dogs suffer while trees do not?

debark a tree and it dies. all living things can suffer if tortured. but back to the subject at hand....

just a thought:

If God suffers (most have agreed upon that), His pain is inflicted by whom? ... people because some people cause pain and suffering?

Eldaire · 11-12-2003, 06:37 PM

God does feel instantaneous pain, but all in all he does not suffer because he knows that everything will work out in the end with 100% certainty.

Torinn · 11-13-2003, 01:34 AM

He loves us, and even the best of us are constantly betraying him (Sin). He probably suffers, in that he loves us, and nobody wants rejection from their loved ones. Even though we reject him, he let's us have the free will to seek him or not. Since we have the ability to choose, it probably makes the acceptance more meaningful to him, as well as the rejections more painful to him.

10-31-2003, 01:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	Does God Suffer? Does God Suffer? Considerations: We suffer now. We won't suffer in the afterlife.

10-31-2003, 01:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	Oh course he does. I believe we're on earth to figure out what kinda people we are. THIS is our test. Well he put us here and he's seeing who is actually a cool person or not. Yeah yeah all powerful guy, he still can't read 2 billion minds at once. We're here, and there are some people that are insane and killing everyone possible just for shits and giggles.. I think with God having to notice all of this, or notice that people just aren't getting it because not everyone is making it to heaven, THIS is why I think God does suffer. Just as he suffered when he had to throw the devil and 1/3 of the other angels into hell. __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

10-31-2003, 01:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	It depends on your paradigm. Certainly the gods of other mythologies have suffered to various extents; Zeus, Odin, Osirus, etc. But I'll assume since you haven't specified that you mean the Judeo-Christain God. Yes, I believe God suffers and that suffering comes from the pain inflicted by the sin of Human kind i.e. a rejection of God. God also suffered physically in the form of Christ. (akin to our own "suffering" when we are rejected by someone we love deeply.) __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-01-2003, 09:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	All very good points, which I agree upon.<hr>The opposing view helps one to strengthen his own view. Can anyone give some reasons why He doesn't, if any? -- The only thing I can think of is that, if God has freewill He could choose not to suffer, although I don't see a reason why he would choose to do so. (the freewill issue is another thread) Last edited by MacGnG; 11-01-2003 at 09:58 AM..

11-03-2003, 12:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I think you guys are trying to classify a God beyond human understanding with human characterstics. Its tough to say really though, sin and rejection of God could probably cause him some sadness. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

10-31-2003, 10:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	i will simply quote one of my favorite liturgies: "God, you have carried us in our pain, wept beside us in our sin, and waited for us in our confusion." IMO, a love could only be God if it were large enough to see and know all the pain of the world, and still hope beyond it.

10-31-2003, 10:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mael Banned Location: The Hell I Created.	well, i don't believe in god, but if the christian god is "true", and we are made in "his" image, then since we have the capability to suffer, "he" must have the capability to suffer.

11-01-2003, 11:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	My understanding is that most religinos teach that sin offends God; I would conclude from that statement that God is capable of suffering. Whether God would choose to suffer is another subject entirely. I can't decide one way or the other.

11-02-2003, 07:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	I'd think that if he did exist and as mentioned we were made in his image, then if Jesus really was the son of God, and God sacrificed him, then he would be capable of suffering just as we are.

11-02-2003, 09:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	From what I recall of cross-faith classifications, Christ is an archetypical "Suffering God", a figure that suffers as his followers suffer.

11-05-2003, 09:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tman144 Tilted	I've always been lead to believe that when we are created in his image its not in the physical sense, but as in our souls are in his image. We can think and reason and all the other characteristics that put us above animals. Its these qualities that are in his image, not pimplely noses. __________________ "Don't touch my belt, you Jesus freak!" -Mr. Gruff the Atheist Goat

11-05-2003, 10:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
empu Crazy	Do dogs suffer? Do trees suffer? Do rocks suffer? Does water suffer? Does light suffer? Do ideas suffer? Does pain suffer? Answer these questions before you jump to the hard stuff.

11-05-2003, 10:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tman144 Tilted	Yes, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ok, thats done, lets continue with the hard stuff. __________________ "Don't touch my belt, you Jesus freak!" -Mr. Gruff the Atheist Goat

11-12-2003, 06:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
Eldaire Loser Location: Davidson College, NC	God does feel instantaneous pain, but all in all he does not suffer because he knows that everything will work out in the end with 100% certainty.

11-13-2003, 01:34 AM	#19 (permalink)
Torinn Upright	He loves us, and even the best of us are constantly betraying him (Sin). He probably suffers, in that he loves us, and nobody wants rejection from their loved ones. Even though we reject him, he let's us have the free will to seek him or not. Since we have the ability to choose, it probably makes the acceptance more meaningful to him, as well as the rejections more painful to him.