Are you dreaming? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

anleja · 10-24-2003, 02:09 PM

Are you dreaming right now? You probably think you aren't, but do you know for sure? And if you do know for sure that you aren't dreaming, HOW are you sure?

anti fishstick · 10-24-2003, 02:40 PM

matrix inspired?
i think everything is a dream within a dream

maybe when we die, we are not "sleeping" but awake. completely awake.

Nafter · 10-24-2003, 02:48 PM

Occam's razor anyone?

spived2 · 10-24-2003, 03:30 PM

If this is dream, I hope I wake up soon. Hopefully when I wake up, I can fly!!!

Ustwo · 10-24-2003, 04:27 PM

Perception is reality.

sillygirl · 10-24-2003, 04:32 PM

I wish I was dreaming...... *sigh* Oh, well...

Sometimes I wonder the same thing. What if what I'm experiencing isn't really what I am experiencing? What if I'm experiencing is all a dream and I'll wake up to my Prince Charming's kiss...

bermuDa · 10-24-2003, 08:39 PM

I dreamt I was on the computer last night... I must still be dreaming ;P

anleja · 10-24-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anti fishstick
matrix inspired?

I actually have been experiencing very life-like dreams lately, almost disturbingly real. I'll wake up and it'll take a while for me to be sure that I'm not dreaming anymore. I wish these were lucid dreams, but in lucid dreams you are aware you are dreaming. However, I'll lately be having dreams which could not possibly happen in the real world, but to me when I have them they are nothing but real. I've been thinking of dreams alot lately, partly because I used to forget the vast majority of my dreams, but for the past couple weeks I've been remembering almost everything. It feels like my insides are opening up to me, but instead of being revealing as I wish they'd be, they are only serving to confuse the hell out of me. To sum up what I'm saying, lately I feel as if I'm in a waking dream. I wish I could explain this, its been a large part of my thinking lately.

I don't even do drugs...

"Perception is reality." Sounds right. But maybe reality is the state of being which keeps you physically alive... like, you can eat in a dream, but is not real because your physical body isn't getting nourished.

Wow, I think I'm kinda tired, I hope I'm not rambling too much for all of you...

"Occam's razor anyone?" I don't understand that reference, I think I'll Google it!

anleja · 10-24-2003, 09:26 PM

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

Occam's Razor:
one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the medievil philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham). The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modeling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.

anti fishstick · 10-24-2003, 10:24 PM

hahah yeah. in laymens terms i think occam's razor means taking the easiest assumption and assuming it to be true. the logic that the majority of people believe in A so A must be true. type thing. at least that's my understanding when i learned about occam's razor last spring.

numist · 10-24-2003, 11:21 PM

I hope to god I'm dreaming... some of the things that have happened in this life seem all too unreal to ever happen to a human being.

[edit]: yep, definitely dreaming, I just tried to go to bed.... then the sprinklers went on outside. Does coincidence like this happen this often to anyone else!!!??? AAARRGGHH!!!!

Anyway, now that Im not sleeping, I have not had many realistic dreams lately, although I would like to - sometimes they can be quite good.

Either way, perception is your reality, and the whole matrix theory had some good points - even if it is a dream, your life is based in your mind, not your body, so if you die there, you die here. So keep out of trouble in your dreams.[/edit: numist really needs to get to sleep now... his posts are starting to not make sense]

Rodney · 10-25-2003, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by anleja
Are you dreaming right now? You probably think you aren't, but do you know for sure? And if you do know for sure that you aren't dreaming, HOW are you sure?

I'll try to answer the question if you'll tell me why it matters? If I'm actually dreaming, until I wake up I'll cope with the parameters of my dream world as best I can and keep moving forward. If I'm actually awake.... the same.

Ustwo · 10-25-2003, 12:44 AM

I've died in three different dreams, that I can recall at any rate.

Once I was shot, and twice I was nuked, (once was a chinese sneak attack and once some sort of James Bond like thing).

So maybe I'm dead and this is hell?

bermuDa · 10-25-2003, 02:01 AM

my understanding of occam's razor is the simplest answer must be the correct one. it's all in the wording though.

applied here, the simplest answer would be "no, if i were dreaming then we'd all be sharing that dream"

in which case would be very matrix-like, but that's definitely not the simplest answer. so "no" it is.

ForgottenKnight · 10-25-2003, 11:24 PM

Life is but a dream... If life is a dream, then why is mine sometimes a nightmare?

Reminds me of a short conversation I had with a friend the other day. They were in the library studying in a comfortable chair next to a couch. I came in after pulling an all nighter and laid down on the couch.
"So doc, I had this dream last night..."
(Giving me a puzzled look) "You didn't sleep last night."
"Think about it."

If I'm dreaming right now, then only wake me to a less cruel reality... or a less cruel dream.

jibs · 10-26-2003, 09:46 AM

my head hurts.. you guys are weird

Killconey · 10-26-2003, 12:21 PM

I agree with Rodney that it doesn't really matter if we're dreaming or awake. This reality is all we know and therefore it is reality. Now if another reality were to present itself, then the question would have a lot more weight to it because you would have to choose which reality was real and which one was the dream.

That being said, I think that this is a very valid question for philosophical pondering even if it doesn't really affect anything. I remember wondering as a child if I were the only real person in the world and everyone else was just a figment of my imagination. Now that would be one weird dream to wake up from!

cliche · 10-26-2003, 12:45 PM

You can't knowc (know with absolute certainty) very much at all; there's always a demon/evil genius/etc to contend with. However, if we use a looser definition for know (as we do in real life) then I think it's safe to say we know we're not dreaming; and leave the skeptics to (truthfully) say that with their definition, it's not possible to knowc. But we just ask them what exactly it is that they do knowc that makes it a useful distinction...

Jam · 10-27-2003, 12:24 AM

ok this is wierd

cause i woke up this morning... sunday
and i seem to remeber my boss telling me to work on sunday to paint part of our loading dock then me saying to my buddy andrew... oh great i have to work on my day off... (supposedly that happened on saturday) but then im thinking when would this have happened i was driiving for work all of saturday... but then i think well i was there and did talk to my boss a bit.. but then comes up the whole well he would have just got andrew to paint it on saturday point.... so... i guess tomorow.. monday, I will either have my boss mad at me for not working sunday or it would have been a really realistic dream and freak the shit out of me

Reese · 10-27-2003, 02:36 AM

If I'm dreaming Then why the hell do I care what you guys are thinking? I got one hell of an imigination if I can dream about all of you guys... Too bad none of you exist.

Liquor Dealer · 10-27-2003, 12:52 PM

When one quits dreaming - one dies.

Tman144 · 10-27-2003, 03:25 PM

We are dreaming, everything we see is just shadows on the wall of a cave. Its not the objects themselves that are whats real, its our understanding of them. That we exsist is the only certainty you can make. I think, therefore I am.

sailor · 10-27-2003, 07:50 PM

I dont think so, or more to the point, I dont think it matters.

Sure, we may be dreaming, or be attached to the matrix, or whatever, but it doesnt really matter. We can't tell the difference, so Im just going to keep on living this life.

dragon2fire · 10-27-2003, 08:07 PM

ah ha my kind of topic

see this leads to other questions

what do we precive is what we precive real

how do we know should we care

i dont have the anwsears to these quesitons but some day i might

Captain Canada · 10-28-2003, 12:10 PM

Ah yes, Descartes. Just studied this last week in philosophy actually.

Doesn't Matter · 10-30-2003, 12:20 AM

Well, they say in dreams you cannot hurt yourself, which is why you wake up before you hit the ground.

Now, ive been hurt several times. And it is real pain.

Plus, it would be hard to come up with stuff that goes on, in a dream.

You could read the scientific reason on why hair grows, but theres no way your mind could think of that, then put it into a dream.

ARTelevision · 10-30-2003, 05:52 PM

Yes, I'm dreaming.

Gun · 10-30-2003, 06:58 PM

You can never REALLY be sure. I've read some scary reports of people taking very strong hallucinogens and living (in detail) a few days of their lives before waking from their drug-induced stupor to realize that none of it had occured.

Weird.

Jam · 10-31-2003, 12:54 AM

well it turns out (i think) that i was dreaming, cause my boss never said anything when i talked to him the next day... that freaked me out the whole day... right from when i woke up...

raeanna74 · 10-31-2003, 06:44 PM

My quote says how I would think of this. Once I eliminate all other possibilities - i.e. I'm awake and cognizant. Then what remains is the truth. If I've eliminated everything else and the only choice is that I am dreaming then even if that seems totally improbable it is my truth.

Dilbert1234567 · 10-31-2003, 11:53 PM

there is no dream

Sunrise · 11-01-2003, 01:15 AM

Feels pretty damn real to me. When you have a dream, sometimes odd things happen/the environment is odd and you realise that it's not real. That doesn't happen here in reality.

10-24-2003, 02:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
anleja disconnected Location: ignoreland	Are you dreaming? Are you dreaming right now? You probably think you aren't, but do you know for sure? And if you do know for sure that you aren't dreaming, HOW are you sure?

10-24-2003, 02:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	matrix inspired? i think everything is a dream within a dream maybe when we die, we are not "sleeping" but awake. completely awake. __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

10-24-2003, 02:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nafter Insane Location: The Eng	Occam's razor anyone? __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

10-24-2003, 03:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
spived2 Desert Rat Location: Arizona	If this is dream, I hope I wake up soon. Hopefully when I wake up, I can fly!!! __________________ "This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V." - V

10-24-2003, 04:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Perception is reality. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-24-2003, 04:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
sillygirl Newlywed Location: at home	I wish I was dreaming...... sigh Oh, well... Sometimes I wonder the same thing. What if what I'm experiencing isn't really what I am experiencing? What if I'm experiencing is all a dream and I'll wake up to my Prince Charming's kiss... __________________ Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken ....absence makes me miss him more...

10-24-2003, 08:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	I dreamt I was on the computer last night... I must still be dreaming ;P __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

10-24-2003, 09:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
anleja disconnected Location: ignoreland	http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html Occam's Razor: one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the medievil philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham). The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modeling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.

10-24-2003, 10:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	hahah yeah. in laymens terms i think occam's razor means taking the easiest assumption and assuming it to be true. the logic that the majority of people believe in A so A must be true. type thing. at least that's my understanding when i learned about occam's razor last spring. __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

10-24-2003, 11:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
numist Banned Location: UCSD, 510.49 miles from my love	I hope to god I'm dreaming... some of the things that have happened in this life seem all too unreal to ever happen to a human being. [edit]: yep, definitely dreaming, I just tried to go to bed.... then the sprinklers went on outside. Does coincidence like this happen this often to anyone else!!!??? AAARRGGHH!!!! Anyway, now that Im not sleeping, I have not had many realistic dreams lately, although I would like to - sometimes they can be quite good. Either way, perception is your reality, and the whole matrix theory had some good points - even if it is a dream, your life is based in your mind, not your body, so if you die there, you die here. So keep out of trouble in your dreams.[/edit: numist really needs to get to sleep now... his posts are starting to not make sense] Last edited by numist; 10-24-2003 at 11:25 PM..

10-25-2003, 12:44 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I've died in three different dreams, that I can recall at any rate. Once I was shot, and twice I was nuked, (once was a chinese sneak attack and once some sort of James Bond like thing). So maybe I'm dead and this is hell? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-25-2003, 02:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	my understanding of occam's razor is the simplest answer must be the correct one. it's all in the wording though. applied here, the simplest answer would be "no, if i were dreaming then we'd all be sharing that dream" in which case would be very matrix-like, but that's definitely not the simplest answer. so "no" it is. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman. Last edited by bermuDa; 10-25-2003 at 02:04 AM..

10-25-2003, 11:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
ForgottenKnight Jesus Freak Location: Following the light...	Life is but a dream... If life is a dream, then why is mine sometimes a nightmare? Reminds me of a short conversation I had with a friend the other day. They were in the library studying in a comfortable chair next to a couch. I came in after pulling an all nighter and laid down on the couch. "So doc, I had this dream last night..." (Giving me a puzzled look) "You didn't sleep last night." "Think about it." If I'm dreaming right now, then only wake me to a less cruel reality... or a less cruel dream. __________________ "People say I'm strange, does that make me a stranger?"

10-26-2003, 09:46 AM	#16 (permalink)
jibs Tilted	my head hurts.. you guys are weird

10-26-2003, 12:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
Killconey Crazy Location: Various places in the Midwest, all depending on when I'm posting.	I agree with Rodney that it doesn't really matter if we're dreaming or awake. This reality is all we know and therefore it is reality. Now if another reality were to present itself, then the question would have a lot more weight to it because you would have to choose which reality was real and which one was the dream. That being said, I think that this is a very valid question for philosophical pondering even if it doesn't really affect anything. I remember wondering as a child if I were the only real person in the world and everyone else was just a figment of my imagination. Now that would be one weird dream to wake up from! __________________ Look out for numbers two and up and they'll look out for you.

10-28-2003, 12:10 PM	#25 (permalink)
Captain Canada Addict Location: University of North Carolina at Greensboro	Ah yes, Descartes. Just studied this last week in philosophy actually. __________________ Conclusion: Flamethrowers and Furries go togerther like Pol Pot and the Cambodian populace.

10-30-2003, 05:52 PM	#27 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Yes, I'm dreaming. __________________ create evolution

10-26-2003, 12:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
cliche Rookie Location: Oxford, UK	You can't knowc (know with absolute certainty) very much at all; there's always a demon/evil genius/etc to contend with. However, if we use a looser definition for know (as we do in real life) then I think it's safe to say we know we're not dreaming; and leave the skeptics to (truthfully) say that with their definition, it's not possible to knowc. But we just ask them what exactly it is that they do knowc that makes it a useful distinction... __________________ I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones. -- John Cage (1912 - 1992)

10-27-2003, 12:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
Jam Junkie	ok this is wierd cause i woke up this morning... sunday and i seem to remeber my boss telling me to work on sunday to paint part of our loading dock then me saying to my buddy andrew... oh great i have to work on my day off... (supposedly that happened on saturday) but then im thinking when would this have happened i was driiving for work all of saturday... but then i think well i was there and did talk to my boss a bit.. but then comes up the whole well he would have just got andrew to paint it on saturday point.... so... i guess tomorow.. monday, I will either have my boss mad at me for not working sunday or it would have been a really realistic dream and freak the shit out of me

10-27-2003, 02:36 AM	#20 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	If I'm dreaming Then why the hell do I care what you guys are thinking? I got one hell of an imigination if I can dream about all of you guys... Too bad none of you exist. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

10-27-2003, 12:52 PM	#21 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	When one quits dreaming - one dies. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

10-27-2003, 03:25 PM	#22 (permalink)
Tman144 Tilted	We are dreaming, everything we see is just shadows on the wall of a cave. Its not the objects themselves that are whats real, its our understanding of them. That we exsist is the only certainty you can make. I think, therefore I am. __________________ "Don't touch my belt, you Jesus freak!" -Mr. Gruff the Atheist Goat

10-27-2003, 07:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	I dont think so, or more to the point, I dont think it matters. Sure, we may be dreaming, or be attached to the matrix, or whatever, but it doesnt really matter. We can't tell the difference, so Im just going to keep on living this life. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

10-27-2003, 08:07 PM	#24 (permalink)
dragon2fire Junkie	ah ha my kind of topic see this leads to other questions what do we precive is what we precive real how do we know should we care i dont have the anwsears to these quesitons but some day i might

10-30-2003, 12:20 AM	#26 (permalink)
Doesn't Matter Banned	Well, they say in dreams you cannot hurt yourself, which is why you wake up before you hit the ground. Now, ive been hurt several times. And it is real pain. Plus, it would be hard to come up with stuff that goes on, in a dream. You could read the scientific reason on why hair grows, but theres no way your mind could think of that, then put it into a dream.

10-30-2003, 06:58 PM	#28 (permalink)
Gun Banned Location: Long Island	You can never REALLY be sure. I've read some scary reports of people taking very strong hallucinogens and living (in detail) a few days of their lives before waking from their drug-induced stupor to realize that none of it had occured. Weird.

10-31-2003, 12:54 AM	#29 (permalink)
Jam Junkie	well it turns out (i think) that i was dreaming, cause my boss never said anything when i talked to him the next day... that freaked me out the whole day... right from when i woke up...

10-31-2003, 06:44 PM	#30 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	My quote says how I would think of this. Once I eliminate all other possibilities - i.e. I'm awake and cognizant. Then what remains is the truth. If I've eliminated everything else and the only choice is that I am dreaming then even if that seems totally improbable it is my truth. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

10-31-2003, 11:53 PM	#31 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	there is no dream __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

11-01-2003, 01:15 AM	#32 (permalink)
Sunrise Crazy Location: Melbourne, Australia	Feels pretty damn real to me. When you have a dream, sometimes odd things happen/the environment is odd and you realise that it's not real. That doesn't happen here in reality.