Atheists Don't Exist - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

TheKak · 08-26-2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

In the absence of proof, I have gone with balance of probability. You can't prove that there is or is not a God, but which do you consider more likely?

How could you know what the "probability" is of something you know nothing about? What would make the odds lean away from 50/50, in either direction? I would think that would require some kind of proof, not just a belief bent in a particular direction. Ask a christian which way the odds are balanced, and Im sure you wont get 60/40 with atheism in the lead, because both of your views are such that you would "think" one is more likely than the other, when you really cant know at all what the odds are.

prosequence · 08-26-2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TIO
I still haven't heard prosequence tell me why he doesn't think I exist.

Did I say you didn't exist? hmm don't quite recall that...

Still waiting for proof atheism exists...

Kind of cool that atheism is based on others belief there is a God.

TIO · 08-26-2003, 09:57 PM

TheKak, what I mean to say is that I believe that it is more likely that God does not exist. I'm not writing gambling odds, just saying that that's how it appears to me. I think it's more probable that I evolved and that before that the universe spontaneously created itself, than that a divine being created both me and the universe.

Prosequence, you know what I mean. Why do you say that Atheism doesn't exist?

If you're telling me that Atheism doesn't exist because it is defined in terms of theism, I disagree. We are usually asked to defend our positions in terms of why we don't believe in a particular deity or theistic system, so we react to that. But if no religions existed, atheism still might; we don't "not believe in God" so much as belive that "the universe works in the absence of a divine being." It's a subtle difference, but an important one.

If you want a better response, you're going to have to further clarify your question. Explicitly and at reasonable length.

docbungle · 08-26-2003, 10:41 PM

The title of this thread is Atheists don't exist. Perheps he/she meant atheism. Either way, you're wrong. They exist and have posted on this thread. Their belief in atheism also exists, because it is impossible for a belief not to exist, as long as someone beleives in it.

I don't understand the point of all this debate. Is anyone here seriously unsure if atheists exist? Or atheism?

*blank stare*

prosequence · 08-29-2003, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by docbungle
The title of this thread is Atheists don't exist. Perheps he/she meant atheism. Either way, you're wrong. They exist and have posted on this thread. Their belief in atheism also exists, because it is impossible for a belief not to exist, as long as someone beleives in it.

I don't understand the point of all this debate. Is anyone here seriously unsure if atheists exist? Or atheism?

*blank stare*

...so belief=existence ???

raeanna74 · 08-29-2003, 07:22 AM

Of course a belief exists simply because people believe in it. It's not like a concrete object that exists im spite of someone believing in it or not. It's not like a law, like the law of gravity where if you believe in it's existence or not it will still act upon you. This is a belief, concept, philosophy that can only exist in the mind. An athiest believes in the absense of a supernatural being - it's not like religion that believes in an actual being. You can try prove that there is such a being. An athiest can only try to prove it's absense. Atheism and Athiests exist just as much as religion and it's believers exist. I really don't think understand the point of this question. It's obvious to me what the answer is.

prosequence · 08-29-2003, 03:18 PM

... so if the belief exists then of course atheists exist... am I getting that right raeanna?

sixate · 08-29-2003, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prosequence
... so if the belief exists then of course atheists exist...

If you're trying to use this as an exapmle as to why god exists you're wrong. Atheism simply means without religion. We don't believe in anything.

Theists believe in an imaginary god or gods. There is a huge difference. Theists exist, but that doesn't mean that their god or gods do.

Anyway, belief doesn't equal existance in all cases. I bet you believed in Santa when you were a kid.... You were eventually let down......

DownwardSpiral · 08-29-2003, 04:06 PM

My take on the whole 'religion' deal is simply that people rely too much on religion. Their lives depend on this 'God' and what the consequences from this 'God' will be for their actions. People praise a 'superior entity' hoping they will get something good in their lives. And if something good happens they praise 'God'. But if nothing good happens they are like 'well, God just didn't want it to be.' I just don't like the idea of devoting my life to a 'God' that i've never seen. And I don't see how other people can either. But they do, and that's their choice.

docbungle · 08-29-2003, 07:39 PM

Quote:

...so belief=existence ???

Yes, if you're talking about a belief!

.....

Christianity exists. Doesn't mean that God exists, but the belief in him does. Obviously. Just as with atheism. What, exactly, are you confused about? You are questioning whether or not a belief exists. It's abundantly obvious that atheism exists, because that's what atheists believe. Therefore, it exists.

prosequence · 08-30-2003, 01:26 PM

Why is everyone talking about God? I want "imperical" evidence that atheists exist, don't try and bring God into this, aparently he has no place in atheism.

Mael · 08-30-2003, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prosequence
Why is everyone talking about God? I want "imperical" evidence that atheists exist, don't try and bring God into this, aparently he has no place in atheism.

i fluctuate between being an atheist and an agnostic. during the times where i believe god does not exist, i am an atheist, and i exist, so therefore atheists exist. if you'd like it more imperical than that, i can put in the form of a mathmatical expression.

i really don't see the point of your topic/argument here. is it just attempted flame bait? if you really don't see how atheists exist, then i don't think you'll ever be convinced.

people keep bringing "god" into this, because a belief in god is central to theism, and ATHEISM involves the concious (sp?) belief that there is no god/god does not exist/god is a figment of a crack babies imagination (take your pick, am i missing any?).

I guess the only way I or anyone else that considers themselves atheists to prove their existance to you would be to come to your house and bitchslap you.

i'm sure someone would be willing.

edit: got the damn smiley right.

Mr. Spacemonkey · 08-30-2003, 02:24 PM

Tell you what prosequence, how about you give your phone number so that i can have an atheist call your house. Would that be enough proof?

There really is no point in this thread because i know that you know very well atheists exist. So since we all know that your not ignorant enough to say that atheism doesn't exist, could you please expain why you made this thread?

edit: i can't believe the amount of responses this thread has gotten. I would have thought that no one would have taken you seriously but i guess you pissed off a lot of atheists by saying that they didn't exist.

TIO · 08-30-2003, 11:51 PM

So, Prosequence, you want me to define my religion without reference to a deity? If that's your question, then for fuck's sake stop being obfuscatory and ask it straight out.

But if that is your question, why are you asking it? Do my beliefs have any less relevance because they are defined in terms of something else? Orphans can only be called orphans if the concept of a parent exists. Are you saying orphans don't exist?

prosequence · 08-31-2003, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mael
...to prove their existance to you would be to come to your house and bitchslap you. i'm sure someone would be willing.

Should I be expecting you? Will you be bringing your ignorance as well, don't know if I have enough room.

If you can't respond nicely then don't bother reading ANY thread, for you be bound to find more that you won't like.

I would hate to see you get high blood pressure have a heart attack, die and go to wherever it is you'll go (the ground I assume).

prosequence · 08-31-2003, 05:55 AM

I think some people are getting a little wonky.
The REASON for this post was to see if anyone had ideas of how to prove Atheists exist, other than them just saying so. I didn't mean offence, I was curious.

I do find it interesting though that some are experiencing the same frustration that those who believe in God have when asked to prove God exists. It's pretty tough not relying on "I just know"
or "It's what I believe so therefore it's real".

The reason I asked "what purpose does it serve?" is because most belief systems were created to serve a purpose, I admit I'm ignorant and don't know what purpose Atheism serves, please enlighten me.

As for those who threatened me (joke or no joke), PM if you truly feel that way and we'll set up a time to give you the opportunity.

sixate · 08-31-2003, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by prosequence
The reason I asked "what purpose does it serve?" is because most belief systems were created to serve a purpose, I admit I'm ignorant and don't know what purpose Atheism serves, please enlighten me.

It serves no pupose. Atheiesm simply means without religion. I didn't make the word up. It's a label that's out there that fits me, and I never called myself an atheist for quite a while, but after reading and learning what the word means it's what I am. You seem to think it's a religion. It's not!

What purpose does religion serve? None for me, but for others it does. I don't go around and say that religion doesn't exist because I don't believe now do I....... This is a retarded coversation. I'm done with it.

Xell101 · 08-31-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

This is a retarded coversation.

Indeed, the premise alone is pretty silly. "You don't exist!" There is a time to stop talking and abandon trying to make a stupid point in a profoundly stupid way, this guy should stop while he isn't so far behind.

Atheism exists. More than two people fit under the left side. Therefore atheists exist. My sister exists, there is at least one.
Atheism | Theism

Mael · 08-31-2003, 10:56 AM

edit: decided not worth my time after finishing reading others posts.

prosequence · 09-06-2003, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xell101
Indeed, the premise alone is pretty silly. "You don't exist!" There is a time to stop talking and abandon trying to make a stupid point in a profoundly stupid way, this guy should stop while he isn't so far behind.

People who believe in a God tend to believe they were created by God, by making a statement that God doesn't exist, is telling them you don't believe they exist.

As for "retarded", I appreciate the thought you put into it.

Asshole Lover · 09-06-2003, 02:36 PM

interesting thoughs in this forum

Xell101 · 09-06-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

People who believe in a God tend to believe they were created by God, by making a statement that God doesn't exist, is telling them you don't believe they exist.

No I'm not.

Atheist = a person believes in atheism
Theist = a person who believes in theism

Denying the existence of god is disagreeing with the basis of a theist religion. Claiming the existence of god is disagreeing with the basis of atheism. Nothing more or less than that.

Denying the existence of atheists is claiming no one believes in atheism. That is flat out stupid.

papermachesatan · 09-06-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TIO
I am an atheist. My life is lived in the absence of the belief in any diety or preternatural force. I identify my religious conviction as atheism. Therefore, atheism exists.

A better description in my opinion:

I am an atheist. My life is lived in the absence of the belief in any diety or preternatural force. I identify my absence of religious conviction as atheism. Atheism's purpose is just to serve as a descriptive term defining the absence of religion.

papermachesatan · 09-06-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xell101

Atheist = a person believes in atheism

Wrong.

Athiest = a person without a religion. There is no such thing as a religion called 'Athiesm'. As Kuroneko once said, describing athiesm in the same manner as a religion is "kind of like calling a vacuum a particular kind of atmosphere."

prosequence · 09-06-2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xell101

Denying the existence of atheists is claiming no one believes in atheism. That is flat out stupid.

So is denying Christians were created by God.

XenuHubbard · 09-06-2003, 08:19 PM

You really don't understand the difference, do you?

motdakasha · 09-06-2003, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by papermachesatan
Wrong.

Athiest = a person without a religion. There is no such thing as a religion called 'Athiesm'. As Kuroneko once said, describing athiesm in the same manner as a religion is "kind of like calling a vacuum a particular kind of atmosphere."

Main Entry: athe·ism
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546
1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
http://www.m-w.com

a·the·ism __ _P___Pronunciation Key__(th-zm)
n.
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
Godlessness; immorality.
http://www.dictionary.com

in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. As such, it is usually distinguished from theism , which affirms the reality of the divine and often seeks to demonstrate its existence. Atheism is also distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open the question whether there is a god or not, professing to find the questions?
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article...ry=atheism&ct=
---------------------------------

Atheism is the active belief that there is no God(s). To be without religion/belief is a wholly different thing. I have yet to find out what it's called. If anyone knows, tell me because I don't a) believe there is no god b) believe there is a god or c) wonder if there is a god. I just don't think about that. And I'm not humanist, either.

papermachesatan · 09-06-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motdakasha
Atheism is the active belief that there is no God(s).

You're just pulling some entries out of the dictionary without really understanding the terms that are identifying athiesm.

Your errors:
1. You think having a belief or belief system must make it some form of religious system. I believe that every man naturally must have a nose. These beliefs come from multiple observations. Is this system of beliefs a religious system? Religion deals with the supernatural(dieties, etc.), the spirtual, etc.

2. Re-read the definition. "a disbelief in the existence of deity", "Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods."
Athiesm's litteral meaning is non-theism. Athieism is simply the refusal to acknowledge the existance of such.

Quote:

To be without religion/belief is a wholly different thing. I have yet to find out what it's called.

You should first figure out the difference between belief systems and religions.

Quote:

If anyone knows, tell me because I don't a) believe there is no god b) believe there is a god

a and b are redudant. You don't believe in God. That doesn't mean that you have to prove that there isn't one. That would be misplacing the burden of proof. Finding proof of the negative is near impossible. The theists are the one's making the claim. They have to justify their claim. An athiest simply refuses to believe the claim. You don't have to have a belief system in order to counter another one.

There's no specific term describing the belief that there is no pink, invisible, intangiable elephant floating near your head. You just don't believe in it. No fancy greek descriptions neccessary.

Quote:

or c) wonder if there is a god.

C describes agnoticism.

Quote:

I just don't think about that. And I'm not humanist, either.

Humanism has little to do with the existance of God.

papermachesatan · 09-06-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prosequence
So is denying Christians were created by God.

'

You don't have any business calling someone stupid for pointing out an *observable* fact when your own claim is completely baseless and unobservable.

motdakasha · 09-06-2003, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by papermachesatan
Your errors:

Humanism has little to do with the existance of God.

Well, think whatever you want. I don't think opinions can be wrong and I know what I think about this whole thing.

And the fact that humanism has little to do with the existence of God was the reason I mentioned it. Apparently you were too busy calling me wrong to even care to see what I was trying to say.

Enjoy your trolling.

oberon · 09-06-2003, 11:45 PM

I think, therefore I am.

Macheath · 09-07-2003, 12:24 AM

I'm going to cover ground that has been covered before in this thread; maybe we can all get it up to 20 pages reiterating the same philosophical points.

Quote:

Originally posted by prosequence
I think some people are getting a little wonky.
The REASON for this post was to see if anyone had ideas of how to prove Atheists exist, other than them just saying so. I didn't mean offence, I was curious.

I do find it interesting though that some are experiencing the same frustration that those who believe in God have when asked to prove God exists. It's pretty tough not relying on "I just know"
or "It's what I believe so therefore it's real".

The reason I asked "what purpose does it serve?" is because most belief systems were created to serve a purpose, I admit I'm ignorant and don't know what purpose Atheism serves, please enlighten me.

This seems to be the post around which the whole thread revolves. It's a cute argument and it is true that nothing can be proven to exist. I cannot even prove my own existence, I could just be a brain in a vat with a simulated consciousness. Based on the evidence available to me, I can reasonably believe that I exist, despite my comment earlier in this thread. I am less inclined to believe that you exist because I cannot see you. I can interact with you though so I do have faith in your existence.

I have observed so little evidence as to the existence of God that I am currently not inclined to believe that he exists.

We have established that there are humans who believe that they and other humans exist. Some of these humans call themselves "Christians" and others call themselves "atheists". Some others even call themselves "teacups" and we believe they exist too even if we do feel a bit sorry for them.

Your point is that the concept of atheism exists only because theism exists. Of course - It would be pointless and meaningless for me to say that I did NOT believe in blargchuchux unless somebody else had at one time said they DID believe in blargchuchux. So for the concept of atheism to exist, the concept of theism has to have existed. This does not mean that God exists. The belief does not establish the reality.

If I falsely believed that you existed when in fact you were an elaborate computer program, my previous faith in your existence would not be enough to somehow bring you to life any more than the posting of this thread will give birth to dear old blargchuchux. The fact that atheists have conceded the existence of theists is really no vindication for the theist's belief in the existence of a higher power - atheists were already perfectly willing to concede your existence on the basis that you were a human being who was standing there in front of them declaring yourself to be a "Christian". They never agreed to believe what you believed just as they were never foolish enough to try and pour boiling water on a "teacup's" head.

Now you ask if atheism serves a purpose beyond a non-belief in God. I have to confess that, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't. This does not mean that atheists are shallow human beings whose lives are devoid of purpose. A devout Christian whose faith is the source of 90% of their moral values would think that the "believers" in the atheist "faith" gain 90% of their values from atheism; that their belief in NON-belief must therefore make them amoral and spiritually empty.

I am an agnostic but my morality does not come from there or directly from any religious source. Some of it comes from humanism, specifically <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/humanism.htm">secular humanism</a>, which I find to be a good means by which to understand the world around me and something that does not fundamentally rely on the belief or non-belief in a deity.

papermachesatan · 09-07-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motdakasha
Well, think whatever you want. I don't think opinions can be wrong and I know what I think about this whole thing.

You can't attempt to make an objective claim and then say "it's right because it's just my opinion." The definition of athiesm is not a matter of personal preference.

Quote:

And the fact that humanism has little to do with the existence of God was the reason I mentioned it. Apparently you were too busy calling me wrong to even care to see what I was trying to say.

Just exactly what were you trying to say?

Quote:

Enjoy your trolling.

Way to attack the person and not the argument. Who is being the REAL troll here?

prosequence · 09-07-2003, 02:09 PM

Macheath, thank you. Although it's unlikely we will never completely agree (nor should we), I appreciate your last post and in the way you expressed your idea and opinion. As well as being willing to actually look at it from another point of view (even if you don't agree with it). Once again thank you.

biph · 09-03-2004, 06:28 PM

Atheists exist, because we have defined what an atheist is, however I have never met an atheist, even though I've met many people claiming to be atheists. An atheist by definition is a person who does not believe that God exists, but in order to "not believe" in something, on must first acknowledge that there is something there to not believe in, either physically, or in this case theoretically. So thusly, you must believe in God in order to claim that you do not believe in Him/Her. A lack of faith in the definition if not the actions/power of God would be a better definition of an atheist, but I am not Noah Webster.

Halx · 09-03-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biph

in order to "not believe" in something, on must first acknowledge that there is something there to not believe in, either physically, or in this case theoretically.

That is the most errored, convulted statement I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

If I say, "I do not believe in god," then I am essentially saying, "I do not believe that god exists." I maintain my stance that people who refuse to read between the lines on semantics and definitions only lie to themselves to make themselves feel comfortable with the nonsense that their mouth is (or fingers are) spewing.

Mantus · 09-03-2004, 11:05 PM

One argues over whether a concept is true or false; not whether the concept itself exists. Obviously the concept exists, otherwise we could not argue over it.

To clarify; a concept of a cat sitting on my desk comes into my mind. The concept is there in my mind thus it exists. If I look onto my desk and there is no cat, then the concept was still there but it has been proven false.

As for the existence of atheism,

Atheism is defined as the belief that the concept of God is false. As long as some one believes that there is no God, atheism will exist. It is irrelevant whether the belief of atheism is actually correct or not.

For example: people believe that the world is flat, thus such people exist and the fact that the world isn’t flat doesn’t change the fact that they exist.

Cheers

maxero · 09-04-2004, 12:16 AM

i always thought it was interesting that if any person with convictions had been raised under different conditions, they might be arguing a completely opposite point now.

Kostya · 09-07-2004, 05:42 AM

undoubtedly Atheists exist...

They are just the least rational of all...

Not really but hey I like riling them up...

(Yes I know what you're thinking, isn't the idea that something exists undoubtedly irrational...)

analog · 09-07-2004, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuDa

for every belief there is a belief that disagrees with it. Theism exists, therefore Atheism exists. As long as people identify with those beliefs, the beliefs themselves will exist.

Bingo, hit it on the head. How is this 2 pages now?? lol

08-26-2003, 09:57 PM	#43 (permalink)
TIO Addict Location: The Land Down Under	TheKak, what I mean to say is that I believe that it is more likely that God does not exist. I'm not writing gambling odds, just saying that that's how it appears to me. I think it's more probable that I evolved and that before that the universe spontaneously created itself, than that a divine being created both me and the universe. Prosequence, you know what I mean. Why do you say that Atheism doesn't exist? If you're telling me that Atheism doesn't exist because it is defined in terms of theism, I disagree. We are usually asked to defend our positions in terms of why we don't believe in a particular deity or theistic system, so we react to that. But if no religions existed, atheism still might; we don't "not believe in God" so much as belive that "the universe works in the absence of a divine being." It's a subtle difference, but an important one. If you want a better response, you're going to have to further clarify your question. Explicitly and at reasonable length. __________________ Strewth

08-26-2003, 10:41 PM	#44 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	The title of this thread is Atheists don't exist. Perheps he/she meant atheism. Either way, you're wrong. They exist and have posted on this thread. Their belief in atheism also exists, because it is impossible for a belief not to exist, as long as someone beleives in it. I don't understand the point of all this debate. Is anyone here seriously unsure if atheists exist? Or atheism? blank stare __________________ Bad Luck City

08-29-2003, 07:22 AM	#46 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Of course a belief exists simply because people believe in it. It's not like a concrete object that exists im spite of someone believing in it or not. It's not like a law, like the law of gravity where if you believe in it's existence or not it will still act upon you. This is a belief, concept, philosophy that can only exist in the mind. An athiest believes in the absense of a supernatural being - it's not like religion that believes in an actual being. You can try prove that there is such a being. An athiest can only try to prove it's absense. Atheism and Athiests exist just as much as religion and it's believers exist. I really don't think understand the point of this question. It's obvious to me what the answer is. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

08-29-2003, 03:18 PM	#47 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	... so if the belief exists then of course atheists exist... am I getting that right raeanna? __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

08-29-2003, 04:06 PM	#49 (permalink)
DownwardSpiral The Funeral of Hearts Location: Trapped inside my mind. . .	My take on the whole 'religion' deal is simply that people rely too much on religion. Their lives depend on this 'God' and what the consequences from this 'God' will be for their actions. People praise a 'superior entity' hoping they will get something good in their lives. And if something good happens they praise 'God'. But if nothing good happens they are like 'well, God just didn't want it to be.' I just don't like the idea of devoting my life to a 'God' that i've never seen. And I don't see how other people can either. But they do, and that's their choice. __________________ "So Keep on Pretending. Our Heavens Worth the Waiting. Keep on Pretending. It's Alright." -- H.I.M., "Pretending"

08-30-2003, 01:26 PM	#51 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	Why is everyone talking about God? I want "imperical" evidence that atheists exist, don't try and bring God into this, aparently he has no place in atheism. __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

08-30-2003, 02:24 PM	#53 (permalink)
Mr. Spacemonkey Wake up Location: Nowhere special	Tell you what prosequence, how about you give your phone number so that i can have an atheist call your house. Would that be enough proof? There really is no point in this thread because i know that you know very well atheists exist. So since we all know that your not ignorant enough to say that atheism doesn't exist, could you please expain why you made this thread? edit: i can't believe the amount of responses this thread has gotten. I would have thought that no one would have taken you seriously but i guess you pissed off a lot of atheists by saying that they didn't exist. __________________ "I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko Last edited by Mr. Spacemonkey; 08-30-2003 at 02:27 PM..

08-30-2003, 11:51 PM	#54 (permalink)
TIO Addict Location: The Land Down Under	So, Prosequence, you want me to define my religion without reference to a deity? If that's your question, then for fuck's sake stop being obfuscatory and ask it straight out. But if that is your question, why are you asking it? Do my beliefs have any less relevance because they are defined in terms of something else? Orphans can only be called orphans if the concept of a parent exists. Are you saying orphans don't exist? __________________ Strewth

08-31-2003, 05:55 AM	#56 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	I think some people are getting a little wonky. The REASON for this post was to see if anyone had ideas of how to prove Atheists exist, other than them just saying so. I didn't mean offence, I was curious. I do find it interesting though that some are experiencing the same frustration that those who believe in God have when asked to prove God exists. It's pretty tough not relying on "I just know" or "It's what I believe so therefore it's real". The reason I asked "what purpose does it serve?" is because most belief systems were created to serve a purpose, I admit I'm ignorant and don't know what purpose Atheism serves, please enlighten me. As for those who threatened me (joke or no joke), PM if you truly feel that way and we'll set up a time to give you the opportunity. __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

08-31-2003, 10:56 AM	#59 (permalink)
Mael Banned Location: The Hell I Created.	edit: decided not worth my time after finishing reading others posts. Last edited by Mael; 08-31-2003 at 10:59 AM..

09-06-2003, 02:36 PM	#61 (permalink)
Asshole Lover Crazy	interesting thoughs in this forum __________________ smells like ass, tastes like _______.

09-06-2003, 08:19 PM	#66 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	You really don't understand the difference, do you? __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

09-06-2003, 11:45 PM	#71 (permalink)
oberon Quadrature Amplitude Modulator Location: Denver	I think, therefore I am. __________________ "There are finer fish in the sea than have ever been caught." -- Irish proverb

09-07-2003, 02:09 PM	#74 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	Macheath, thank you. Although it's unlikely we will never completely agree (nor should we), I appreciate your last post and in the way you expressed your idea and opinion. As well as being willing to actually look at it from another point of view (even if you don't agree with it). Once again thank you. __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

09-03-2004, 06:28 PM	#75 (permalink)
biph Upright Location: America	Atheists exist, because we have defined what an atheist is, however I have never met an atheist, even though I've met many people claiming to be atheists. An atheist by definition is a person who does not believe that God exists, but in order to "not believe" in something, on must first acknowledge that there is something there to not believe in, either physically, or in this case theoretically. So thusly, you must believe in God in order to claim that you do not believe in Him/Her. A lack of faith in the definition if not the actions/power of God would be a better definition of an atheist, but I am not Noah Webster.

09-03-2004, 11:05 PM	#77 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	One argues over whether a concept is true or false; not whether the concept itself exists. Obviously the concept exists, otherwise we could not argue over it. To clarify; a concept of a cat sitting on my desk comes into my mind. The concept is there in my mind thus it exists. If I look onto my desk and there is no cat, then the concept was still there but it has been proven false. As for the existence of atheism, Atheism is defined as the belief that the concept of God is false. As long as some one believes that there is no God, atheism will exist. It is irrelevant whether the belief of atheism is actually correct or not. For example: people believe that the world is flat, thus such people exist and the fact that the world isn’t flat doesn’t change the fact that they exist. Cheers

09-04-2004, 12:16 AM	#78 (permalink)
maxero Crazy	i always thought it was interesting that if any person with convictions had been raised under different conditions, they might be arguing a completely opposite point now. __________________ cough

09-07-2004, 05:42 AM	#79 (permalink)
Kostya Little known... Location: Brisbane, Australia	undoubtedly Atheists exist... They are just the least rational of all... Not really but hey I like riling them up... (Yes I know what you're thinking, isn't the idea that something exists undoubtedly irrational...) Last edited by Kostya; 09-07-2004 at 05:45 AM..