doobie

Parents should know how 2 raise their kids in a smart way
with education and more. These days parent just tell them go watch tv or do go play toys or video game , they should read books and do sumthing educational and not 2 be ignorant

Bill O'Rights

Yep...you've got that right.

Seriously...are you just giving a abreviated editorial, or are you trying to open a discussion? What you've offered here, is really no basis for either.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

sillygirl

Well.... not for a discussion fit for the parenting board


Anyway, I think that part of the reason that kids aren't turning out the same as maybe earlier generations have is because there are less and less families where one parent stays at home and raises the child(ren). They don't get one on one attention really ever, and when the parents ARE home, even though you'd think they'd spend time with their kids that they miss out on all day, they're too busy wanting to 'relax', so the kids get to watch tv, and hey, video games entertain them, right?

I try really hard to make sure that my son gets his mommy time every day and that his toys are educational. Even at 6 months, he LOVES tv, so I make sure that when he does get to see it, it's something like Baby Einstein. I want him to be a kid who plays outside, not who has blisters on his thumbs from playing too much Street Fighter.

__________________

Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken
....absence makes me miss him more...

Bill O'Rights

I really can't see anyone coming out and saying; "Yeah...I plop my kid down in front of the TV every chance that I get. Barney's wholesome, so why not? I work, I'm tired, the last thing I want to do when I come home is deal with having to "nurture" my kid. That's what cable's for."

I can hear it all now though. We all buy our kids only the best educational toys, and their book collections would put shame to the New York Public Library. Television? Nope. Won't even find one in the house. Video games are alright though, as they help to develop hand/eye coordination. Right?

Riiiggghhht.

Well, I for one, will be honest. My kid watches entirely too much television. I'll admit it. It's easier, when I get home from work, to let him veg out on Curious George, Clifford, Big Big World and Arthur, while I'm busy with the chores.
He is not, however, lacking in the reading department. He is read to every night, for a minimum of 1/2 hour. He has a very good assortment of educational toys. Toys that stimulate his immagination. And, he also has a fair number of "Mc"toys, as well.
Oh...and there is not a video game system in my house. Not even an Atari 2600.
I don't think that he is lacking.

sillygirl is right, though. Much of how our kids are raised does fall onto the fact that both parents (if there are two) must work. It's a sad fact of today's society. I know that my wife and I both have to work. And I don't want to hear about taking fewer vacations, or making do with an older car. We haven't taken a "vacation" in seven years. The newest car we own just turned ten years old. The oldest is 30, and I drive it every day. We both work to make ends meet.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

sillygirl

It's "easy" for me now because he's 6 months old. He can't play video games yet Or beg to watch Lion King over and over. I know it'll be harder when he's older.

Oh, and we've got PS2, Dreamcast, and I think a couple other systems laying around.

__________________

Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken
....absence makes me miss him more...

Daniel_

My daughter has a DS, and it is shocking how much it's caused her to WANT to read.

She has Animal Crossing on it, and seeing as many of the instructions are on screen as text, she want to be able to do it on her own.

That said, we've started rationing TV here - she is only allowed to watch shows that she can name up front, and looks things up in the TV guide to see what she might like to watch.

She knows that there is not unlimited TV.

We have no TV before school (unless we watch the 5 minute news headlines on the BBC to catch the local traffic news just before we go out the door). We have little TV in the evening - none until homework's done, and we've played a familiy game (she's 6 and just learning Monopoly at the moment).

She watches a few shows at the weekends, but mainly wants to watch "family shows" - things we can all wathc together and talk about. She loves documentaries on Discovery, as it allows her to ask quesitons and try to find a subject I don't know about.

All in all, TV is a visitr to our house, not the landlord.

Now if only I could get my ex-wife to do the same in her house...

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

sillygirl

Daniel,
I like those guidelines. It seems kind of early, but my SO and I have been trying to decide how we're going to handle these things.

I've heard families kind of 'trade' reading time for video games or tv. Certain amount of reading before tv goes on.

Lately we haven't even been watching much tv, and the house has felt more calm. Was it easy to implement your rules with your daughter?

__________________

Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken
....absence makes me miss him more...

Daniel_

Not too hard.

She got into a cycle of getting upset because she was very tired because she was trying to do too much.

We all sat down as a family and talked about what we could do to make it better - and she decided that she wanted to learn about relaxation and meditation (she's got some guided relaxation CDs designed for kids), and that she enjoyed watching films with the family, but didn't want to watch TV on her own so much - she likes to learn new things (like cooking), so she's got her own notebook to write the recipes she learns in, and her wn section of the garden that she chooses how to plant, and so on.

I'll not say she's perfect, but she's calmed down a hell of a lot since we cut the TV time.

And with fewer adverts on screen she doesn't nag half as much that she has to have a happy meal, or the latest sugar crammed pap from Kellogs, or whatever.

Life is easier when it's quieter.

In fact if the TV's off, she often asks if we can put on some music - she'll ask for "quiet music", or "rocking music", or "noisy music" as suits her mood.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Leto

since last september, I've disconnected the PS2. It was too much temptation, and I got a 17 year old who is failing algebra-geometry proofs. So out goes the toys, and he is only allowed to tape Heroes and watch after finishing with his tutor on the weekends.

Draconian? yes, but I am his parent, not his friend and this isn't a popularity contest.

abaya

Ideally, our future kids won't even *want* to watch TV... that would be great. I would like for us to raise them to be naturally curious about the world, to be excited to go outside and play, or to read a book or play a (non-video) game. To do things that require thought, energy, creativity. They don't have to have massive IQ's, but I don't want to raise bumps on a log, either. Maybe I'm idealistic, but I think it's possible.

Basically I hope to not have the TV on at all when we have kids. Or at least, not for anything beyond watching movies. No friggin' commercials, period... they're gonna get enough peer pressure to consume from their friends at school. I'd prefer to not have a TV in the house, period, but I think my husband would go crazy.

As for video/computer games... I really, really hope to ban those from the house as well. I agree with Leto that raising children is not a popularity contest, and I don't care if our children and all their friends think I'm a bitchy mom, I won't stand for their brains rotting away in our house. We currently have no video game systems, as a household, and we have no computer games installed on either of our machines. I hope we keep it that way.

That said, I know that there has to be a balance between draconian laws and a moderate approach to kids being human. Maybe video gaming would be a reward for doing chores or homework on time, that kind of thing. I never had that structure, as a kid... indeed as sillygirl said:

... it was me who had blisters on her thumbs from playing Tetris and Super Mario Bros. for hours, days, weeks on end when I was still in the single-digits. (I actually had to tape/Band-Aid my thumbs, no joke).

And yet, because I was raised on 2 acres of land, I feel like I played outside whenever it was warm enough to be out there. I don't think we will have the luxury of raising our kids on a plot of land, though, so I am determined to find ways for them to be outside whenever possible... living next to a park, going camping regularly, going fishing, whatever it takes. For kids living in the city, especially, I think it's hard to have the motivation to go outside and feel safe playing, exploring one's environment.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Charlatan

Not draconian at all. We do this as well. Not looking to be my kid's friend.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

sillygirl

I think there does need to be a balance between being the tyrant, so to say, and being a 'friend', which I don't think really describes what I'm looking for. I want to get along with my kids, I want to have a great relationship. Hell, if I could walk into a houseful of ten boys, have to restrain two of them and ground another one or two by the end of the night, and still walk out with us all on decent terms, it was a great night, and my goal was to always have the good terms. That's kind of the same thing I want at home. I know it's possible. I figure as long as they know that I'll crack the whip, and what the whip is like when cracked, things'll be okay. I really hope that I'll be able to establish healthy boundaries. I want my kids to have a relationship with me that I was unable to have with my parents.

As far as not having tv, abaya, I had a friend in high school who had never had a tv in his house. I asked him once what they did for fun. He said, "We play games and hang out with each other". He had a rather large family, from what I recall. It worked. They played games, went on outings, etc.

Daniel, it sounds awesome what you've got going with your daughter. I hope I can have that too. It's cute that she'll ask for specific music. There's a spot in our backyard that would be perfect for a garden, but the dogs destroyed it. I don't trust them with plants, so I'm considering pulling the bushes in front of/against the house and planting things there. I really don't have a green thumb, so it would just be brown and ugly all the time.

Oh yeah, abaya... I also had blisters. Mostly from Tetris (I still kick ass at that game). My brother got them worse though from playing StreetFighter and other games like that, and my youngest brother wore out the Lion King tape when they came out on VHS. My mom had to replace it.

__________________

Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken
....absence makes me miss him more...

Deltona Couple

I always liked to coin the term, "A friend in a parent" I always make sure that we have talks EVERY day when My wife and I get home from work. We ask how their day was, what they did, and talk with them over their homework. We honestly don't have much "mom and dad" time, because we use our time after work to spend with the kids. Now we do have a TV, and a few video games, as well as a family computer, but my kids do stick to the rule of no TV, games, or computer until we get home. I have the honour of having kids that actually are capable of managing their OWN time very well. They balance games, TV and computer time with everything else. I think it has been about a week or more since the PS2 was actually turned on! My oldest daughter is dedicating much of her spare time to dance class, her JROTC, and trying to get into Annapolis. My son is planning on going into the Marines and becoming a Navy Seal, and my youngest daughter, like many tween girls, dreams of becoming a writer, or singer....*rolls eyes* I guess as long as it makes her happy huh?...lol. Now as to their history, I limited TV time to 3 hours per week, to watch at their leisure, 30 minutes a day on the computer (they LOVE to e-mail family) and a MINIMUM of 45 minutes a day reading a book. We had our game nights, and things like that, so I guess we did a pretty good job, considering I divorced their mom when they were just 3 and 6.....

__________________
"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

ngdawg

The common theme here is 'time with your kids'. Structured or not, it's what they crave.
Sillygirl: I started reading to my kids at about 6 months old-about the time they could sit up. Simple cloth baby books and just "ooo! elephant!" stuff but it became a habit to the point that, by 18 months, my daughter would grab a book, slap the sofa and demand 'Read!'
Around the same age, they noticed the 'movement' on the tv and my son would actually stop drinking his bottle when the theme from Cops started.
Generally, though TV for them was Barney in the morning (ugh) and some tapes for quiet time-but those tapes were dance-along, sing-along ones.
Now, time with your kids is always a good thing, but it can have some strange results: my son, at 16 months, decided he wanted to play Nintendo. Not only did he know to turn the tv on and put it to channel 3, he knew to hit 'reset' when the game ended. This was from sitting in Daddy's lap every night after Daddy got home from work and played.
We continued reading to our kids until they were about 4 and they learned to read to us. As they grew and got familiar with their books(lord have mercy, kids get attached to the same damned stories ad nauseum!!), I'd leave words and phrases out and they'd say them as I pointed. It was a wonderful 'us' time and I really think gave them an edge. And, my daughter devours books now, at 14. My son's a computer game geek

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

oneofmanymen

At our house our kids have a tv in there play room. They also have several game systems they can choose from to play. BUT, they are each limited to 30 min a day to play a game, sometimes on the weekend they do get an extra 30 min in a day if theres not much going on,meaning its to cold etc. We have 5 kids ranging from 13 to 7. It actually seems that with playing the games it helps them to get along alot better. I think its becuase they work togther to get through the games. My oldest son LOVES Marios games. He's 13. We do not allow any of them to play the more "adult" games out there. Any of the violent games is cartoon violence, Like Racthet & Clank Jak etc. I also will play them and they will sit and help me to get through alot of parts. They love to see dear old dad not be able to do as good at something that the excel at. I also feel this is some good time that I spend with my kids. I also spend time watching Battlestar with my oldest stepdaughter. My wife and and her watch it togther she is just about 13, and although I think at times some things get a bit racey for a child her age we talk openly about whats going on and to be honest I think it has also been a good way for her to feel comfortable for her to talk to her mother about things. I think TV and videos games can be a good thing if you make sure you do as much of it as you can as a FAMILY. Of the 5 kids, two of them are my own (Boys)and the other 3 (girls) are my step daughters. The olest calls me by my name, but the other two girls refer to me as dad. This is something I am very proud of and I know I have earned. I love and accept them as my own on their terms. Of the 5 kids we have one that isnt getting all A's and B's and I think alot of it right now is his mothher just had a new baby after had had been the bay for 9 years, I think it has taken its toll on him a bit. So over all I think I have some pretty damn good kids. yes sometimes we do set them with a movie and relax, you just have to make sure you take the time to get some one on one or one on there or whatever you can do. You can never be perfect but you can sure be there when they need you.

__________________
Everything works if you let it....

abaya

Really an excellent point, oneofmanymen. Of all the TV watching I did as a kid, the best times doing so were with my parents (especially quality time with my dad on Star Trek, hehe). I loved playing Atari games with my parents, though when Nintendo and computer games came out... I did become more solitary when playing them. But I still managed to play outdoors (into my teens) and socialize with real people the vast majority of my free time, so I think as long as my parents saw that video/computer games weren't taking up an inordinate amount of time, they were okay with it.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran