What if Osama is already dead??
 

Something I though about on the way home from work last night....

What of Osama is already dead? Wouldn't that mean that this whole war on terror thing would be for nothing? Of course, you couldn't let any information like that out because for one, you would make a martyr out of him and all of his followers would try and kill the infidels to avenge his death and eventually, a new leader would emerge. However, if they all think that he's still alive and just in hiding, they will just carry on with their current actions and the war goes on.

If this were true, then where would this leave the US government? Killing osama would by no means mean the end of al- quieda just like killing one roach would mean the end of the species. However, since the government has propelled him up onto a pedestal that now seems to be unreachable, he's now seen as a "psychological" goal that if here were killed, the "war or terror" would be over.

Did Bush and company put us in a difficult situation starting this war? Kill osama, let the word get out and you will create hundreds if not thousands of more osamas. Don't kill him (or al least make it look like you didn't) and this "war" will go on forever.

Thoughts?

You've hit on the crux of the matter. Odds are Bin Laden's already dead, but Dubya's gone and gotten himself into a war he can't win. The nature of terrorism is guerilla and international, you simply can't stop terrorists by brute force. Furhter, declaring war and sending out troops is only likely to call more unwanted attention to the US and cause more terrorism anyway. The whole thing is ludicrous and more than a little untenable.

EDIT - Since this is paranoia I'll point out that above I'm assuming Dubya's goal is to stop terrorism, which may well be the smoke screen for something else entirelty.

The problem with the war on terror is that it isn't solely about osama and arab terrorists. GWB called it a war on terror, not a war on osama. So even if we kill osama, and miraculously take out every single arab terrorist, there's still the rest of the world to conquer.. err.. i mean.. .. .. "save"? There will never be an end to this war because there will always be terrorism in one form or another - this war will never end, like the waron drugs.

MY only concern is when GWB stops centering on foreign terrorism and puts his eyes here on the US. Every day crimes are commited, people murdered, etc... I believe the patriot act already classified any crime as an act of terrorism. So how long until US citizens are thrown in jail w/o trial for the "terrorist" robbing of a convenience store, or running of red light.

I don't even think this is paranoia. It's reasonable to think that Osama could have been killed in one of the bunker bustings or many bombings.

Osama bin Laden is a myth. He never existed. He is entirely made up. Come on! He's a 6'9" Arab. Hiding, allegedly in Northern Pakistan, where he would be, like, a foot and a half taller than any other person within 500 miles. That's nearly tall enough that we could have the CIA fly a plane into him. Terrorist genius? OK, smartypants? Rule #1: Always hide where there are a lot of people who look like you. 18" shorter than you doesn't work.

They're playing us, guys.

no no. Osama will never "Die". The U.S. will keep him alive as long as they need to. That is, until the "war on terror" is complete (complete control of the middle east). The CIA has said itself that they know where Osama is. They don't want him dead, keeping him alive is a way to keep the american people in check.

Yeah, i mean, the man is on dialasis (sp?). That shit is hard to get in a cave...

Of course the war on terror would not be over if Osama is dead. The al-quieda are hardly what we are fighting anymore. Notice the entire shift of empasis from finding Osama to the war in Iraq. Though that supposively a peace keeping mission now... ha.

If you think there is no war in Iraq then I say you are sorely mistaken.

'war on terror' what an oxymoron war is terror, wether Osama is now alive or dead is not the issue anymore, maybe in America they are still using him as a centrepiece for the continued occupation of iraq, but here in the UK it has moved on, we are now dealing with extremist muslims using Al Qaeda as a justification to spread thier anti 'western culture' message. The USA's heavy handed approach to world politics does not help the case for western culture but I haven't heard anything about Osama for a while and if he did turn up dead I don not think it would change much.

One countries terrorist is another countries freedom fighter, to call it a war on terror is to give the opposition a purpose it needs to stop now and genuine bridges between our cultures need to be made. I do beleive that dubya is up to no good behind all this, of course it is all just intuition because I have no proof. when future generations judge him I reckon he will be considered a bad patch in American history.

The war in iraq officialy had nothing to do with Osama, he was just a catalyst- the Iraq war was about sadam ignoring UN sanctions

*COUGH*http://www.cleanwindenergy.com/images/oil-well.jpg*COUGH*

This being in paranoia...do you really think GWB alone, or even with the support of the Senate/Congress, was thinking in the "short term" in entering Iraq? There is something much bigger going on that we may never know about.

GBW said himself righ before the war started (and I'm paraphrasing here from memory) 'this will be a war that will be fought as long as is necessary... and it may take years before the battle is won'.

This said, he was so quick to announce that the 'mission' was 'accomplished'. But anyone that reads the paper or netnews outlets can confirm that there are still US soldiers dying over there. In fact, at a faster rate than the original insurgency/occupation.

As far as Osama goes, yes, I think there are pictureds of his remains somewhere, and this administration will most likely march them out as part of the opening act for the announcement of the Republican canidate for 2008.

I find it hard to believe that an old-aged cripple on dialysis would be able to survive in a cave for so long.

to stir some literature and philosophy into this, let's look at


---------SPOILERS---------

Memento: He kills John G. and keeps on inventing new "John G.'s" for himself to hunt to give him purpose

1984: A war on false pretenses to stabilize the economy. (However, i don't see our oil prices stabilizing.. maybe it's time to let the corpse die)

You bastard...Some of us haven't seen Memento yet...

Edit:Removed quote.

whoops, there, that should make it less visible =p

ManWithAPlan - The falsified wars in 1984 weren't to stabilize the economy, they were to distract the people from other social problems. As long as there was a war on, any other issues were secondary.

In that light it could be argued the war on terror serves it's purpose, if one were to presuppose that Dubya reads Orwell.

Also, there was a definitive destablization of the family unit, so that there was no cohesion amongst small groups: the individual was truly individual, fearing that any 'unorthodox' (against the interests of the party) thoughts would be found out about by anyone at any time and these people turning the unorthodox person in.

I always think about day time talk shows when I think about this: showing people that are unsuccessfully parenting their children, giving them makeovers, large groups of strangers telling people how to live their lives. And then setting them loose back into the world with no other help than empty instruction.

Hardknock: You do realize that in the post starting this thread, you wrote, in one post:
“What of Osama is already dead? Wouldn't that mean that this whole war on terror thing would be for nothing?”
and:
“Killing Osama would by no means mean the end of al- quieda just like killing one roach would mean the end of the species.”
These are mutually contradictory positions. The second one is closer to the truth. Killing (or better yet, capturing) Bin Laden would be wonderful, but would not by any means be the end of the struggle against terrorism. Consider: capturing Al Capone did not end organized crime, but it was still a good thing.

Tophat665: You write that “Osama bin Laden is a myth. He never existed. He is entirely made up. Come on! He's a 6'9" Arab.”
Bin Laden is 6’4” (not 6’9”), which is quite tall but not any more extraordinary for Arabs than for Europeans. He was well documented and widely reported well before any “war on terror” was ever conceived, and many people have met him. You may as well claim that Dave Barry is a fiction.

Ronin Tetsuro: “GBW said himself right before the war started (and I'm paraphrasing here from memory) 'this will be a war that will be fought as long as is necessary... and it may take years before the battle is won'. This said, he was so quick to announce that the 'mission' was 'accomplished'.”
The “mission accomplished” was a specific message to the 8,000+ service men and women serving on the carrier that was on the way home. Their mission was indeed accomplished; there was nothing wrong with telling them they did their jobs well, accomplished all that was asked of them, and welcome home.
It seems a bit of a stretch to claim that the ‘mission accomplished” was intended to mean the problems in Iraq, much less the rest of the middle east, were over. Please recall the many statements indicating that we would be there for an indefinite period, including one you paraphrased in your post.

lindseylatch: “Yeah, i mean, the man is on dialasis (sp?). That shit is hard to get in a cave...”
and
Ariq: “I find it hard to believe that an old-aged cripple on dialysis would be able to survive in a cave for so long.”

There are some reports that Bin Laden once received dialysis (well before the conflict in Afghanistan) for an infection that temporarily impaired kidney function. However, this is disputed and may be false. He has no health condition that requires regular dialysis.
He in his late forties. I don’t regard that as especially elderly; YMMV.
He is not crippled; though he sometimes walks with a stick, other times he does not. Use of a walking stick is common in rocky and mountainous territory around the world. He is missing a couple of toes from an old wound, but this does not especially impair walking.
He probably is (if still alive) in generally poor health, but this not necessarily life threatening.

I will not be recalling anything I directly heard the president say with my own ears. Americans need to stop with this 'selective memory' stuff. It's really very disturbing.

OK, I'll help. Check a CNN news report from shortly after the event: http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/....accomplished/

Summary: Bush did not actually say "Mission Accomplished".
There was a huge banner to that effect hanging from the superstructure of the aircraft carrier, and this was visible directly behind GWB as he gave a speech on the deck while the carrier returned from Iraq.
The banner was conceived, requested, and erected by the crew of the carrier.

bin laden = figurehead
 

defined as : a person used as a cover for some questionable activity now, what bin laden did was fight for us with our weapons that we gave him a long time ago, so we knew the guy, we cut him a deal, made his face famous all over the world, used him as a reason to go to a war that umm, has nothing really to do with him, and gave ourselves a reason to start the slow change to a police state.(grr, patriot act) whomever is telling bush and his cronies to do all of this is a real smarty, must of studied hitler very well (the reichstag) We gave Iraq weapons before too, so we go in there and fuck everything up, divide their country even more, all of this eventually will lead to all out chaos, a war with iran, and lots of oil for us. Reinstatement of the draft, likely to happen, the downfall of america, very likely. bin laden no longer matters, everyone threw away their cups and stickers branded with kill osama a long time ago, now people are finally beginning to see that their civilization is heading for the edge of a cliff, and most of them are lemmings.

I can see the future...

CNN Headline Sept.7 2105
WHITE HOUSE HAS FURTHER LEAD IN FINDING OSAMA BIN LADEN
Senior White House officials have commented that Osama Bin Laden, now well over 150 years old, is within the grasp of American soldiers. "Sure he may have eluded us before, but we've got him this time!"

CNN Headline Sept. 8 2105
BIN LADEN ELUDES UNITED STATES TROOPS

Well if he's really dead then he can't be killed again. :(
Which is kinda upsetting as looking back in the Archives I can remember the suggestion involving sliding someone slowly face down a giant cheese grater at the bottom there being a lake of vinegar on fire.

I'm sure Cable would screen it :thumbsup:

Bush and Blair should go down the slide next :cool:

ok so he's 6'9..but remember those grainy fake videos that came out where he supposedly claimed responsibility for 911? he didnt look taller than any of the others. sure he was sitting down, but he should markedly be much atller than the other guys in the room.

he's been in videos previously with other accomplices..ive never notices him to be that tall..yeah hes tall and slender, but 6'9 is friggen huge. i think its just an exageration. makes the story a little bit more interesting..thats all.

I think this guy is already dead.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html

Peace.

V.