Kalibah

Ill put this in poltics forum because it is closely tied to them

Bascially the worlds newest nobel prize winner says that Aids was manmade for mass extermination of blacks because more blacks have it than whites, and rejects the idea it is from monkies because humans have lived with monkies for years before AIDs.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/879829.cms





thoughts? comments ?


Please post content, not just links - lebell

HIV virus deliberately created: Wangari Maathai

AFP[ SATURDAY, OCTOBER 09, 2004 10:26:50 PM ]

NAIROBI: Kenyan ecologist Wangari Maathai, the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize, on Saturday reiterated her claim that the AIDS virus was a deliberately created biological agent.


"Some say that AIDS came from the monkeys, and I doubt that because we have been living with monkeys (since) time immemorial, others say it was a curse from God, but I say it cannot be that.

"Us black people are dying more than any other people in this planet," Maathai told a press conference in Nairobi a day after winning the prize for her work in human rights and reversing deforestation across Africa.

"It's true that there are some people who create agents to wipe out other people. If there were no such people, we could have not have invaded Iraq," she said.

"We invaded Iraq because we believed that Saddam Hussein had made, or was in the process of creating agents of biological warfare," said Maathai.

"In fact it (the HIV virus) is created by a scientist for biological warfare," she added.

"Why has there been so much secrecy about AIDS? When you ask where did the virus come from, it raises a lot of flags. That makes me suspicious," Maathai added.

Africa accounts for 25 million out of the estimated 38 million across the world infected with HIV, and the vast majority of infected Africans are women, according to UNAIDS estimates.

The United States on Friday congratulated Maathai on winning the Nobel Peace Prize, but tempered its praise over her claims about AIDS. "She said (HIV/AIDS) was invented as a bioweapon in some laboratory in the West," a senior State Department official said. "We don't agree with that."

The official pointed to a report of those comments published in August in Kenya's daily Standard newspaper, in which Maathai was quoted as saying that HIV/AIDS was created by scientists for the purpose of mass extermination.

ibis

Whata dumbass

daking

I dont think you even read the article properly, the ecologist only stated she beleived the virus to be man made for bio-warfare purpose. This is a reasonable postulation tho i have seen little/no evidence for it.

From what i read she never mentioned at all that the virus was made to kill black people specifically.

Kalibah

I put 2 and 2 together when I read this

"Us black people are dying more than any other people in this planet," Maathai told a press conference in Nairobi a day after winning the prize for her work in human rights and reversing deforestation across Africa.

"It's true that there are some people who create agents to wipe out other people. If there were no such people, we could have not have invaded Iraq," she said.

MSD

There's little doubt in my mind that it's a bioweapon. To me, the question is whether its release was intentional or accidental. Africa is neglected by the western world. If it was accidentally released there, we wouldn't have put much effort into keeping it contained because people didn't realize how big it was. If it was intentional, the people who did it knew that we wouldn't divert billions of dollars from our current budget to new programs to help out poor, sick Africans.

Just because she doesn't come out and say that it was made to kill blacks doesn't mean that she didn't imply it. She stated that it's a bioweapon, and that more blacks than any other race, and she clearly wants to infer that it was targeted at her race.

pedro padilla

blacks, homosexuals, drug users and anyone in contact with any of these satan worshipping scum. This theory has been flying around for years. Lotsa credible scientific study for both sides of the argument. It probably was lab created. The question is whether it leaked out or was purposely unleashed. Could be Reagans lasting legacy. They sure as hell shoved the crack plague on the black population.

Kalibah

What leads you to believe that its a bioweapon though?because its so deadly? Ebola is much worse...

Kalibah

Sorry I miswrote the title, its HIV thats the Virus, AIDs is the condition is causes :\

jb2000

I think we're jumping to conclusions here, folks. Yes, blacks have suffered inordinately from AIDS, what she said is totally and completely true. There is also a lot of support for the idea that AIDS was a human development, not the mere result of natural evolution. But how is pointing these two things out, along with a host of other things, a claim that it was developed specifically to target blacks? I didn't find that anywhere in her words, even between the lines looking for it.

What is completely there is the note that Africa, in particular black Africa, is bearing the brunt of the epidemic while recieving precious little relative aid in dealing with it. Say what you will, but if I were a black African, you'd have a hard time convincing me that there wasn't some element of racism, be it overt or underlying, playing into the situation.

I don't think that there is much medical finding that the negroid racial lines are substantially more vulnerable to the HIV virus than Caucasians or anyone else, so that to me would indicate that if man-made, it wasn't targetted specifically against blacks. No, I think that if there are any underlying claims of racism in her speech, it was not that they were initially targetted by AIDS, but that they have been shafted in the level of support received in battling AIDS.

daking

You have not seen the entirety of the transcript for that interview. You have only seen a few seperate and distinct quotes chosen by the reporting publication. Come now, you really should have a better standard of critical judgement here. It is impossible to clearly see an inference based on such second hand evidence.

Read again, She was in Narobi, now where is that?? Oh Africa, so it stands to reason she mentions that pandemic of HIV infection.

Dont put two and two together if your going to make five.

pan6467

There are 2 beliefs that I subscribe to here depending on my mood and optimism.

1) Government made it, never expected to use it, went to destroy it and it accidently got out (perhaps through subjects they were testing it on). But to be honest there is no true evidence and one has to stretch to truly try to believe that.

2) As we continue to destroy the rain forests and go into habitats where man has not tread in 100's of years (and if we have it has been as a tribe that has acclimated to the area) and we are releasing diseases that perhaps at one time we had an immunity to but our bodies lost that immunity.

Take ebola for instance. Perhaps it was common and we eventually grew to be immune to it (I believe we have always and will continue adapt to diseases as a species). The virus disappeared and was no longer a danger to us. Our bodies over time realizing Ebola was no longer a danger adapted to other viruses and diseases and the immunity to Ebola was lost.

As we have been moving into the forests of Africa and the forests are dying off from drought, Ebola once again has been released. Since we dealt with it last, the virus mutated and became stronger and like I said, our immunity had long been gone, therefore it is as deadly as it is now. I also believe that is why you will find people who won't get it, or will but won't die from it. Their bodies recall the immunity genes for some reason better than the rest of us.

AIDS is probably a similar story.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

TheFu

I think people can say this because they can argue that if you follow a pure, moral, christian, insert how you want people to act here, lifestyle you have a small chance of contracting it. So it was either man made by Reagan and his moral majorty followers /snicker or it was sent by God to punish sinners.

If it was a bio weapon my guess it was made by a scientist who couldn't get laid and it was his revenge on those who did what he couldn't do. I think it is crazy to say it was made to target Africans. I'd believe it was just a mutation of some other virus before I believed some crazy conspiracy theory.

daking

Yes but until further evidence is posted nobody has made this suggestion! The original poster didnt understand the article correctly.

Kalibah

Im sorry I didnt post all the articles


"Although I am a biologist, I have not done any research. I may not be able to say who developed the (HIV) virus but it was meant to wipe out the Black race," she said.

She insisted that some scientists from the developed world deliberately researched and developed the virus in order to "punish the Blacks".


"I cannot prove this but everybody knows that there are biological weapons. America invaded Iraq because they believed such weapons existed," said Maathai.


http://www.eastandard.net/hm_news/ne...articleid=2642

Kalibah

see below

daking

Yes this is the kind of evidence that needed to be referenced initially. I have found my own too, check:

Next time you are attempting to spark such a sensative debate you need ensure your initial references are accurate in what you report. In this regard you did misunderstand the initial article.

The times of india link ( http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/879829.cms) was insufficent for you to draw the conclusions you presented.

thefictionweliv

If people were just more careful with who they are promiscuous with it wouldn't be such an epidemic.(People that get it through treatment, rape, or birth are victims.) One night with a stranger would never be worth taking 50 pills a day for the rest of my days.

If it is an epidemic in Africa one would wonder why it is mostly blacks are effected. I just can't put my finger on it.

Kalibah

No part of it is that it is believed sex with a virgin cures the disease- and the Catholic church saying that condoms cause AIDS ( in an effort to stop people from having sex...)


case in point


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3176982.stm

Maybe we should be airdropping playboys instead of condoms since they arent getting used

Stompy

Hm, this would probably fit in better in Paranoia

If AIDS was man-made, someone would've spoken out by now.

It does make a nice campfire story though.. ooh imagine the thought of something man-made being released. Fits right up there with the illuminati!

__________________
I love lamp.

seep

Whether it was made to punish homosexuals or wipe out blacks, whether it was made by scientists in a laboratory or forged by God almighty - whoever created the damn thing didn't do such a hot job, 'cuz there's still blacks and gays and gay blacks everywhere and it really fucks with us non-gay non-black people as well. Evil scientists/God need to fucking shape up when it comes to bioweapons.

kutulu

Shit, if AIDS is a bioweapon, it is the most retarded bioweapon ever created. It is not an easy virus to spread. An effective bioweapon needs to be airborne or able to pass in drinking water. There is a simple way to avoid getting HIV: practice safe sex, don't share needles, and carefully screen blood donations. It also takes way too long to show symptoms. As a result, the people administering it can't tell a healthy person from someone who has it but hasn't had it long enough to show signs of infection. This makes it hard to track.

These days I don't have much sympathy for people who get HIV (at least in places like the US where there is plenty of education). It is extremely preventable. A lapse in judgement caused them to contract it.

madsenj37

How about the education system in Africa vs. the western world? I am not a biologist either and I claim that the education system has devolped into a way to disarm the whites from HIV/AIDS. What about the latin, middle eastern, asian, etc populations. Did she compare blacks to them. Maybe its a world conspiracy against blacks. Maybe we whites had help. Maybe whites did not do it, we are being framed. (Hope everyone caught my sarcasm). This lady is nuts. Period.

__________________
"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe."
-- Albert Einstein

ShaniFaye

umm am I understanding this right......you're calling blacks and homosexuals and drug users satan worshipping scum?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

kutulu

I think pedro has some obvious sarcasm. The problem with a message board is that obvious sarcasm is not always obvious to everyone.

ShaniFaye

well I would HOPE it was sarcastic....thats why I asked for clarification before saying anything lol and you're right....whats obvious to one person isnt necessarily obvious to the next person

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Bobaphat

I am having a really hard time understanding why this thread is isn't in paranoia instead of politics. I don't believe for one second that HIV is a bio-weapon. As plagues and epidemics go in the course of human history, its nothing compared to the black plague, influenza, small pox and any other number of diseases. Diseases come and go, become more and less virulent overtime. There is no reason to believe that HIV is any different than any other virus.

__________________
--size matters not-- yoda

oktjabr

Agreed with Bobaphat. Never even though at that. I don't know if the nobelist really said what is quoted, but it sounds absurd. Surely she would know about mutating viruses and such?

__________________
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever."
-G.O.

filtherton

Not saying that i agree with the idea that HIV was developed to wipe out africans, but as a bioweapon, aids is pretty manageable in the first world. However, as reality would seem to indicate, it gets pretty out of hand in the third world, where little or bad information and low quality medical care mix. In other words, it is a really good bioweapon for attacking the third world, because it is relatively easy to avoid if you know how to do it, and really easy to contract if you don't know how to do it.

FoolThemAll

I think the crucial blow to the Nobel Peace Prize's credibility was Arafat receiving the award, but this still has to hurt just a little.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

Lebell

Ignorance like this is why the AIDS epidemic is decimating Africa.

It leads to things like young African mean raping virgins, believing that will "cure" them of the disease.

It also leads to Muslims not vacinating their children against polio, believing that the vaccine is a western poison meant to make them sterile.

God, these people are their own worst enemy.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

oktjabr

The question remains, why would anyone want to attack third world? Every racist I know would rather see the black people back in Africa than actually dead.

__________________
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever."
-G.O.

filtherton

It probably has something to do with sharks with frickin lazers on their heads.

dy156

Well, don't know if this is quite topical, but as long as we're talking about AIDS on the political board, has anybody thought about how the much maligned big drug companies in America that are responsible, along with the trial lawyers, for our terrible health care system have, in the span of a decade, come up with drugs and treatments that, though expensive, have effectively treated AIDS?

An AIDS diagnosis used to be a death sentence. Remember the little guy, Ryan White, who got it and became a national spokesperson and friends with Michael Jackson? He died within a few years. Now, drugs are available to turn an AIDS into a chronic, not terminal disease, similar to diabetes. Remember people wondering how long Magic Johnson was going to make it? I do not doubt that the AIDS epidemic will have lasting sociological impact on African society, but I also have little doubt that eventually it will not be the problem that it is there today.

Kalibah

But it would cost billions upon billions to get the needed drugs to all those infected in Africa. As others have said- in the First world its mangeable- in third its not. You wonder how many of them KNOW they have aids ? Not many I assume due to lack of hospitals,etc. So how do you know who to treat?

Its like a hole in a dam, eventually its going to cause it to burst.

Strange Famous

It's a legitimate theory that a lot of people hold, I certainly dont think it is laughable or ridiculous to believe this... but I personally don't now enough about it to say if I support it or not. Certainly, there are precedent's in history that relate to this (Indian's being deliberately given small poxinfested blankets, black soldiers being deliberatly infected with diseases in the US army for experimentation...)

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

oktjabr

Personally I'm ready to dismiss this argument about bio-weapon AIDS as a clever plan from Doctor No and his insidious henchmen.

The problem in Africa is that the needy ones in there cannot afford to pay for the patent costs. Not that I have any special information how much the actual production costs.

__________________
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever."
-G.O.

Kalibah

But do you believe that it was meant to target blacks? Thats where it gets kinda weird. I could buy into it being a bio-weapon somewhat... but then that someone released it to kill blacks? thats a little tooo weird for me

Ustwo

Reading this thread makes me feel like a killwala crapped a rainbow on my brain.

Nobel prize isn't exactly what it used to be I guess.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Kalibah

She didnt win it for that idea though Ustwo, she got it for planting trees heh

Ustwo

Yea I know, but I'd think they wouldn't be total dumb asses like so many of them have been lately. Lately the 'prize' seems to be mostly politically motivated.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.