Are You Prepared for the Worst? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Sun Tzu · 03-10-2008, 11:21 PM

This thread was inspired by another that willravel created located in Tilted Knowledge titled Tilted Armageddon. If you haven’t read through that one, it’s worth a visit. This one is approached in a different way. I have a side passion, that many of my friends think is a bit odd or paranoid as some call it. For the last ten years I have been allotting a portion of investment into preparing for surviving a collapse of society as we now know it. Really up until the last two years it has just been more of buying supplies and putting them into storage. I’m almost out of room with a need to expand. What I currently have is:

* enough MREs (meals ready to eat) to feed six people for 4-5 years

* a large supply of drinking water, will invest in a filtration system soon

* a full array of medical supplies- various antibiotics, a complete spectrum of other medications, minor surgery materials including analgesics such as lidocane with and without epi, various emergency medical equipment, an automatic defibrillator, the list goes on and on. Basically, a small ER. Some of the medications will expire as time goes on. I usually stock up whenever I go to Mexico. Even if the meds do expired, something is better than nothing.

* 4 sets of MOP gear including gas masks

* Dosimeters, survey meter, ten boxes of potassium iodide

* Two books of M9 and M8 paper, M256A1 kit, and an anthrax SMART kit – that covers most of the chemical and biological spectrum

* An armory in which I won’t go into details

My next investment is going to be the largest. Here’s where friends and family view me as wasting my money. I’m having an underground shelter constructed, it has taken me about three years to fully research what I want as far as layout, sanitation, air and water filtration, level of NBC protection, level of tectonic protection, access points, and overall space. If I had enough money I would save a lot of time and purchase an abandoned missile silo the government sells, but the price tag is way out of range.

The location was the final element. I have land in Montana; which at first seemed ideal. It is on the continental divide and very secluded. The problem is in the event of a nuclear war that area is going to get hit harder than most of the states. Not to mention Yellowstone, although that wasn’t a big concern.

The area I live in now; Arizona I found to be pretty much ideal for numerous reasons and threats both manmade and by nature. Arizona’s main issues will be water and food, not counting a direct meteor hit.

I have thoroughly reviewed FEMA’s website and Arizona’s DEMA website. Both actually offer online courses for free that most colleges accept as credits toward and emergency management science degree. Your state DEMA website has a wealth of information on what to do should the “shit hit the fan” in any one of the numerous ways it can.

I have friends that see this as over the top, but I also am in a network of individuals I would call peers more than friends that are all doing the same thing.

There are multiple events that can happen that would disrupt society as we know it on a grand scale. I’ll eliminate the least likely first: asteroid impact, gamma ray burst, giant super solar flare, magnetic pole reversal, mage volcano eruption like Yellowstone for example, a natural global epidemic, biotech disasters, and technology based disasters such as the concern over Y2K.

The next set events I classify as possible. These are the one’s I am curious how others view here. I’m not really referring to whether you believe they will happen or not. They are possible enough for to prepare for, even if they are unlikely. Through everything I hope they never happen. If I go through life having invested and prepared for situations driven by paranoia, and that’s all they were, believe me when I say that is not a bad thing.

Any kind of collapse of society that renders us into a scenario like the movies: The Postman, Road Warrior, Red Dawn, and similar. A full blown or even limited nuclear war, a total collapse of our economy where those without precious metals are totally fu**ed, martial law gone out of control on a national level, a man made-virus unleashed intentionally or accidently, etc.

Some of my friends that view me as obsessed state they wouldn’t want to survive if things go bad.

Would anyone here want to survive catastrophes mentioned above? If, not does that mean you would kill yourself if your survived the initial causes?

If you didn’t want to survive and you have a family, does that mean you wouldn’t want your family to survive?

What would you do if something biological happened on a grand scale and the antibiotics or antidote became scarce- and someone you love needed it or would suffer and die, what would you do?

Is anyone else prepared for the worse here? I understand having the mindset of whatever happens; happens and there is nothing I can do about it. That may be true, but if the worst does happen do you have any kind of action plan for food, medicine, shelter, etc. Consider where your current state of preparedness is right at this moment. If something happened there would be panic in the streets. Highways would become filled, stores looted, and mass panic. If the stages of martial law broke down, the lower ranks of the military could fall apart as they become concerned for their families, form there anything is possible.

If these events are unlikely, is it a waste of time for the government to be prepared? When I referred to being prepared, I mean a refuge for a select few to have and survive on. Meet Mount Weather: you should after all you are helping pay for it.

Quote:

Few Americans--indeed, few Congressional reps--are aware of the existence of Mount Weather, a mysterious underground military base carved deep inside a mountain near the sleepy rural town of Bluemont, Virginia, just 46 miles from Washington DC. Mount Weather --also known as the Western Virginia Office of Controlled Conflict Operations--is buried not just in hard granite, but in secrecy as well.

In March, 1976, The Progressive Magazine published an astonishing article entitled The Mysterious Mountain. The author, Richard Pollock, based his investigative report on Senate subcommittee hearings and upon "several off-the-record interviews with officials formerly associated with Mount Weather." His report, and a 1991 article in Time Magazine entitled Doomsday Hideaway, supply a few compelling hints about what is going on underground.

Ted Gup, writing for Time, describes the base as follows: "Mount Weather is a virtually self-contained facility. Above ground, scattered across manicured lawns, are about a dozen buildings bristling with antennas and microwave relay systems. An on-site sewage-treatment plant, with a 90,000 gal.-a-day capacity, and two tanks holding 250,000 gal. of water could last some 200 people more than a month; underground ponds hold additional water supplies. Not far from the installation's entry gate are a control tower and a helicopter pad. The mountain's real secrets are not visible at ground level."

The mountain's "real secrets" are protected by warning signs, 10 foot-high chain link fences, razor wire, and armed guards. Curious motorists and hikers on the Appalachian trail are relieved of their sketching pads and cameras and sent on their way. Security is tight.

The government has owned the site since 1903; it has seen service as an artillery range, a hobo farm during the Depression, and a National Weather Bureau Facility. In 1936, the U.S. Bureau of Mines took control and started digging.

Mount Weather is virtually an underground city, according to former personnel interviewed by Pollock. Buried deep inside the earth, Mount Weather was equipped with such amenities as:
- private apartments and dormitories
- streets and sidewalks
- cafeterias and hospitals
- a water purification system, power plant and general office buildings
- a small lake fed by fresh water from underground springs - a transit system
- a TV communication system
Mount Weather is the self-sustaining underground command center for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The facility is the operational center - the hub - of approximately 100 other Federal Relocation Centers, most of which are concentrated in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland and North Carolina. Together this network of underground facilities constitutes the backbone of America's "Continuity of Government" program. In the event of nuclear war, declaration of martial law, or other national emergency, the President, his cabinet and the rest of the Executive Branch would be "relocated" to Mount Weather.

What Does Congress Know about Mount Weather?

According to the Senate Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights hearings in 1975, Congress has almost no knowledge and no oversight --budgetary or otherwise--on Mount Weather. Retired Air Force General Leslie W. Bray, in his testimony to the subcommittee, said "I am not at liberty to describe precisely what is the role and the mission and the capability that we have at Mount Weather, or at any other precise location."
A
pparently, this underground capital of the United States is a secret only to Congress and the US taxpayers who paid for it. The Russians know about it, as reported in Time: "Few in the U.S. government will speak of it, though it is assumed that all along the Soviets have known both its precise location and its mission (unlike the Congress, since Bray wouldn't tell); defense experts take it as a given that the site is on the Kremlin's targeting maps. " The Russians attempted to buy real estate right next door, as a "country estate" for their embassy folks, but that deal was dead- ended by the State Department.

Mount Weather's "Government-in-Waiting":

Pollock's report, based on his interviews with former officials at Mount Weather, contains astounding information on the base's personnel. The underground city contains a parallel government-in-waiting: "High- level Governmental sources, speaking in the promise of strictest anonymity, told me [Pollock] that each of the Federal departments represented at Mount Weather is headed by a single person on whom is conferred the rank of a Cabinet-level official. Protocol ven demands that subordinates address them as 'Mr. Secretary.' Each of the Mount Weather 'Cabinet members' is apparently appointed by the White House and serves an indefinite term ... many through several Administrations. The facility attempts to duplicate the vital functions of the Executive branch of the Administration."
Nine Federal departments are replicated within Mount Weather (Agriculture; Commerce; Health, Education & Welfare; Housing & Urban Development; Interior; Labor; State; Transportation; and Treasurey) as well as at least five Federal agencies (Federal Communications Commission, Selective Service, Federal Power Commission, Civil Service Commission, and the Veterans Administration). The Federal Reserve and the U.S. Post Office, both private corporations, also have offices in Mount Weather.

Pollock writes that the "cabinet members" are "apparently" appointed by the White House and serve an indefinite term, but that information cannot be confirmed, raising the further question of who holds the reins on this "back-up government." Furthermore, appointed Mount Weather officials hold their positions through several elected administrations, transcending the time their appointers spend in office. Unlike other presidential nominees, these appointments are made without the public advice or consent of the Senate.
Is there an alternative President and Vice President as well? If so, who appoints them? Pollock says only this: "As might be expected, there is also an Office of the Presidency at Mount Weather. The Federal Preparedness Agency (precursor to FEMA) apparently appoints a special staff to the Presidential section, which regularly receives top secret national security estimates and raw data from each of the Federal departments and agencies.

What Do They Do At Mount Weather?

1) Collect Data on American Citizens
The Senate Subcommittee in 1975 learned that the "facility held dossiers on at least 100,000 Americans. [Senator] John Tunney later alleged that the Mount Weather computers can obtain millions of pieces of additional information on the personal lives of American citizens simply by tapping the data stored at any of the other ninety-six Federal Relocation Centers."
The subcommittee concluded that Mount Weather's databases "operate with few, if any, safeguards or guidelines."

2) Store Necessary Information
The Progressive article detailed that "General Bray gave Tunney's subcommittee a list of the categories of files maintained at Mount Weather: military installations, government facilities, communications, transportation, energy and power, agriculture, manufacturing, wholesale and retail services, manpower, financial, medical and educational institutions, sanitary facilities, population, housing shelter, and stockpiles." This massive database fits cleanly into Mount Weather's ultimate purpose as the command center in the event of a national emergency.

3) Play War Games
This is the main daily activity of the approximately 240 people who work at Mount Weather. The games are intended to train the Mount Weather bureaucracy to managing a wide range of problems associated with both war and domestic political crises.
Decisions are made in the "Situation Room," the base's nerve center, located in the core of Mount Weather.
The Situation Room is the archetypal war room, with "charts, maps and whatever visuals may be needed" and "batteries of communications equipment connecting Mount Weather with the White House and 'Raven Rock'-- the underground Pentagon sixty miles north of Washington--as well as with almost every US military unit stationed around the globe," according to the Progressive article. "All internal communications are conducted by closed-circuit color television ... senior officers and 'Cabinet members' have two consoles recessed in the walls of their office."
Descriptions of the war games read a bit like a Ian Fleming novel. Every year there is a system-wide alert that "includes all military and civilian-run underground installations." The real, aboveground President and his Cabinet members are "relocated" to Mount Weather to observe the simulation. Post-mortems are conducted and the margins for error are calculated after the games. All the data is studied and documented.

4) Civil Crisis Management
Mount Weather personnel study more than war scenarios. Domestic "crises" are also tracked and watched, and there have been times when Mount Weather almost swung into action, as Pollock reported: "Officials who were at Mount Weather during the 1960s say the complex was actually prepared to assume certain governmental powers at the time of the 1961 Cuban missile crisis and the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963. The installation used the tools of its 'Civil Crisis Management' program on a standby basis during the 1967 and 1968 urban riots and during a number of national antiwar demonstrations, the sources said."
In its 1974 Annual Report, the Federal Preparedness Agency stated that "Studies conducted at Mount Weather involve the control and management of domestic political unrest where there are material shortages (such as food riots) or in strike situations where the FPA determines that there are industrial disruptions and other domestic resource crises."
The Mount Weather facility uses a vast array of resources to continually monitor the American people. According to Daniel J. Cronin, former assistant director for the FPA, Reconnaissance satellites, local and state police intelligence reports, and Federal law enforcement agencies are just a few of the resources available to the FPA [now FEMA] for information gathering. "We try to monitor situations and get to them before they become emergencies," Cronin said. "No expense is spared in the monitoring program."

5) Maintain and Update the "Survivors List"
Using all the data generated by the war games and domestic crisis scenarios, the facility continually maintains and updates a list of names and addresses of people deemed to be "vital" to the survival of the nation, or who can "assist essential and non-interruptible services." In the 1976 article, the "survivors list" contained 6,500 names, but even that was deemed to be low. Who Pays for All This, and How Much?
At the same time tens of millions of dollars were being spent on maintaining and upgrading the complex to protect several hundred designated officials in the event of nuclear attack, the US government drastically reduced its emphasis on war preparedness for US citizens. A 1989 FEMA brochure entitled "Are You Prepared?" suggests that citizens construct makeshift fallout shelters using used furniture, books, and other common household items.
Officially, Mount Weather (and its budget) does not exist. FEMA refuses to answer inquiries about the facility; as FEMA spokesman Bob Blair told Time magazine, "I'll be glad to tell you all about it, but I'd have to kill you afterward."

We don't know how much Mount Weather has cost over the years, but of course, American taxpayers bear this burden as well. A Christian Science Monitor article entitled "Study Reveals US Has Spent $4 Trillion on Nukes Since '45" reports that "The government devoted at least $12 billion to civil defense projects to protect the population from nuclear attack. But billions of dollars more were secretly spent on vast underground complexes from which civilian and military officials would run the government during a nuclear war." What is Mount Weather's Ultimate Purpose?
We have seen that Mount Weather contains an unelected, parallel "government-in-waiting" ready to take control of the United States upon word from the President or his successor. The facility contains a massive database of information on U.S. citizens which is operated with no safeguards or accountability. Ostensibly, this expensive hub of America's network of sub-terrain bases was designed to preserve our form of government during a nuclear holocaust.
But Mount Weather is not simply a Cold War holdover. Information on command and control strategies during national emergencies have largely been withheld from the American public. Executive Order 11051, signed by President Kennedy on October 2, 1962, states that "national preparedness must be achieved... as may be required to deal with increases in international tension with limited war, or with general war including attack upon the United States."

However, Executive Order 11490, drafted by Gen. George A Lincoln (former director for the Office of Emergency Preparedness, the FPA's predecessor) and signed by President Nixon in October 1969, tells a different story. EO 11490, which superseded Kennedy's EO 11051, begins, "Whereas our national security is dependent upon our ability to assure continuity of government, at every level, in any national emergency type situation that might conceivably confront the nation."
As researcher late William Cooper points out, Nixon's order makes no reference to "war," "imminent attack," or "general war." These quantifiers are replaced by an extremely vague "national emergency type situation" that "might conceivably" interfere with the workings of the national power structure. Furthermore, there is no publicly known Executive Order outlining the restoration of the Constitution after a national emergency has ended. Unless the parallel government at Mount Weather does not decide out of the goodness of its heart to return power to Constitutional authority, the United States could experience an honest-to-God coup d'etat posing as a national emergency.

Like the enigmatic Area 51 in Nevada, the Federal government wants to keep the Mount Weather facility buried in secrecy. Public awareness of this place and its purpose would raise serious questions about who holds the reins of power in this country. The Constitution states that those reins lie in the hands of the people, but the very existence of Mount Weather indicates an entirely different reality. As long as Mount Weather exists, these questions will remain.

The Chinese and Russians have been busy constructing similar cities.

I’ll conclude with questions which aren’t meant to be offensive:

Are you prepared for the worst?

If not, do you care to be?

If you don’t care to be, do you think there is going to be an inevitable salvation granted by a supernatural being, and such preparation is a waste?

If you don’t care to be, do you think that we as a global population will eventually get our act together, and socially evolve into a Star Trek like society?

If you don’t care to be, do you think that we will continue from where we are today on an international level, “terrorism” will be defeated, China will turn into a Republic form of democracy, the Israel/Palestine issue will resolve itself and the will be a unified peace in the middle east, everyone will learn to accept each others religious beliefs, the US dollar completely recovers from its decline and all debt is wiped clean, the world discovers a plentiful, clean source of energy, all tension from territorial disagreements are effectively solved in the UN, your political views survive because they make the most sense. I don’t know where such a scenario would end or where the world would go from there, except trying to solve overpopulation.

If this is all over the top, what is your primary reason for not feeling the need for extended disaster preparation?

Do you see yourself as a person that would capitalize on opportunities of obtaining power if society was thrown feudal. In other words would you turn into a war lord and exploit the weaker ones for self survival?

Lastly, if your views are a desire not to survive, have you thought about you loved ones and what you would do if they lived but looked toward you to protect them?

Redlemon · 03-11-2008, 07:09 AM

To me, it is all about (the cost of preparing for the event in question) divided by (the probability of the event occurring). In my opinion, that number is too large to be worth my time. I don't play the lottery for the same reason.

Jinn · 03-11-2008, 07:32 AM

I certainly would feel terrible about having a SO die because I wasn't prepared with the correct medicines, as would I feel terrible about being so woefully unprepared. If I had the money to spare, I would certainly build a facility just like this.

But I too agree with Redlemon. Cost / Likelihood. I own a gun because I think that the liklihood of a home invasion robbery or aggravated assault are high enough that it justifies the cost in money, and (potential) cost in life to a would-be assailant.

I just don't find it likely enough that something this catastrophic will happen in my lifetime to justify taking money away from my more realistic, tangible, and short-term goals.

If I found myself much richer or the world less stable, I'd be in your shoes very quickly, and I do envy your planning.

One question that always plagues my mind, though, when I consider these "end of the world survival" scenarios is women. You've got the food, the shelter, the protection and medicine to potentially last months. But what are you going to do for your more .. animalistic.. needs? Furthermore, should you be the last surviving "group" of humans, would you be prepared to begin the species again?

Also, what are you going to do offset cave insanity and boredom? Are you stocking books, games, etc?

Cynthetiq · 03-11-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

To me, it is all about (the cost of preparing for the event in question) divided by (the probability of the event occurring). In my opinion, that number is too large to be worth my time. I don't play the lottery for the same reason.

call me a dittohead word for word.

Willravel · 03-11-2008, 09:54 AM

Jeez that's a big post.

I have a bomb shelter with enough canned food to last me and another person for about 5 years *can opener breaks*... no, that's not fair. That's not fair at all. There was time now.

QuasiMondo · 03-11-2008, 10:55 AM

Why would anybody want to live through the apocalypse? The world is already fucked by then.

Ustwo · 03-11-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuasiMondo

Why would anybody want to live through the apocalypse? The world is already fucked by then.

I can imagine surviving in a world without musical dinner theater and the internet.

Being in a major population center, odds are famine will be the real killer, so if you could, when you decide to end it all, let me know so I can pick up the carcass.

QuasiMondo · 03-11-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I can imagine surviving in a world without musical dinner theater and the internet.

Being in a major population center, odds are famine will be the real killer, so if you could, when you decide to end it all, let me know so I can pick up the carcass.

How will I do that with no internet and no TFP?

Sun Tzu · 03-11-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

I certainly would feel terrible about having a SO die because I wasn't prepared with the correct medicines, as would I feel terrible about being so woefully unprepared. If I had the money to spare, I would certainly build a facility just like this.

But I too agree with Redlemon. Cost / Likelihood. I own a gun because I think that the liklihood of a home invasion robbery or aggravated assault are high enough that it justifies the cost in money, and (potential) cost in life to a would-be assailant.

I just don't find it likely enough that something this catastrophic will happen in my lifetime to justify taking money away from my more realistic, tangible, and short-term goals.

If I found myself much richer or the world less stable, I'd be in your shoes very quickly, and I do envy your planning.

One question that always plagues my mind, though, when I consider these "end of the world survival" scenarios is women. You've got the food, the shelter, the protection and medicine to potentially last months. But what are you going to do for your more .. animalistic.. needs? Furthermore, should you be the last surviving "group" of humans, would you be prepared to begin the species again?

Also, what are you going to do offset cave insanity and boredom? Are you stocking books, games, etc?

I remember about 3 years ago there was a gas shortage in Arizona. For about 22 days you couldnt find any gas anywhere. When a station would happen to get a tanker drop a load, people swarmed in like vultures. Arguments, fist fights, price gauging, even fuel theft. There is no doubt in my mind had that been 3 months things would have turned very ugly. It truly wasnt a huge deal obviously everyone survived, life went on. It was however, a small taste- a very small taste of the feeling of helplessness and out of control that enters when the the everyday routine and elements that found that routine are taken away. I can only image if there were suddenly another gas crisis like in the 70s, combine that with some sort of outbreak, image not being able to get gas or medical supplies. Every hospital you go to is full past capacity, and every perso you run into or encounter has the same thing on their mind protecting their family. As I watched a fight directly in front of my car as I was waiting in a line for 4 hours for gas, it amazed me how easy people will go into survival mode. Its kind of disturbing how fast and easy society could break down.

The investment in this has been over a long period. Its not something I woke up ast week and decide to do, although I wouldnt mind being that wealthy.

If something were to happen I know with great certainty, I would not belong to a group that would be the last humans. The people that DO have the wealth, elites that we are all familiar with and a lot we arent are very prepared. As I stated ealier, its not a pleasant thought knowing that a portion of our tax dollars has gone to the construction of a facility that will shelter and feed a select group of 100,000 people. Im sure there are more than that. As far as the other things you brought up, I havent thought that far. Like I said I hope I live my life without ever having to taste the ultimate nightmare. Its my hope that humanity does end up evolving into a Star Trek like society, where science and exploration of the cosmos is the general theme vs. war. If te worst did happen it is possible after examining whats left, how contaminated the Earth could possibly be, being confined for a long period of time, and other factors I possibly could decide I dont want to go any further, even with the family consideration. I just want that choice more than anything. I would not want the desire to survive only to be caught or even worse see my family caught in the events that will unfold if the worst happens.

I would recommend to go to your states DEMA website and at least skim over the wealth of information they have for the public. The have long and short courses over various elements specific too your area. Best of all its free. There is also http://www.fema.gov/ but i find state specific information far better.

snowy · 03-11-2008, 06:25 PM

Jeez, and I thought I was overly concerned...

I've been working, as time and money allow, on establishing a pantry. Given that I'm a poor college student, this is largely limited to canned and dry goods. At the high point, I probably had about six months of food. It's dwindling again, as we're moving in four months, and I don't want to have to haul my pantry to the next place. I'd say I have about two months of food at this point. It'll take me a couple months to rebuild the pantry after relocating, but that's acceptable.

I also live with two Eagle scouts who have plenty of backpacking and survival experience between the two of them. They also have a lot of survival gear.

For me, my more immediate concern is loss of power due to a windstorm than a nuclear catastrophe, and so I have planned towards that end. But I do hedge my bets with my pantry.

Slims · 03-11-2008, 10:59 PM

Edit: post deleted, sorry.

ASU2003 · 03-12-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I remember about 3 years ago there was a gas shortage in Arizona. For about 22 days you couldnt find any gas anywhere. When a station would happen to get a tanker drop a load, people swarmed in like vultures. Arguments, fist fights, price gauging, even fuel theft. There is no doubt in my mind had that been 3 months things would have turned very ugly. It truly wasnt a huge deal obviously everyone survived, life went on. It was however, a small taste- a very small taste of the feeling of helplessness and out of control that enters when the the everyday routine and elements that found that routine are taken away. I can only image if there were suddenly another gas crisis like in the 70s, combine that with some sort of outbreak, image not being able to get gas or medical supplies. Every hospital you go to is full past capacity, and every perso you run into or encounter has the same thing on their mind protecting their family. As I watched a fight directly in front of my car as I was waiting in a line for 4 hours for gas, it amazed me how easy people will go into survival mode. Its kind of disturbing how fast and easy society could break down.

I was in Phoenix during that gas shortage, but I rode my bike everywhere for a month.

Am I prepared, no. Would I like to be, yes. But there are a lot of problems in a lawless, anarcist, survival of the fittest world. You may be able to survive for three - six months in your shelter, but you better hope that no one else is desperate enough for food and water when emerge into the world again. I have no doubt that human society would break down into a hunter-scavenger type of population again.

Then there are the problems that you may never think about. National Geographic's show about a world with no humand made the point that nuclear reactors might meltdown, which would cover most of the currently populated areas with major radidation. Hopefully someone would shutdown the Palo Verde nuclear plant before it had a meltdown.

MSD · 03-14-2008, 07:42 AM

I don't have much stocked up. I have the guns and ammo to hunt the overgrown deer population around here for years, and I live close enough to water that I can get water for a while, too.

One thing to consider with MREs it that the caloric density is not as high as some other long-shelf-life foods, so if you have to get up and go, they'll take up more space than alternatives.

"Two one-megaton atomic bombs explode over New York City" from The Nuclear Winter by Carl Sagan, right?

Tully Mars · 03-14-2008, 09:45 AM

I live in an area steeped in Mayan culture. According to many the Maya have an end date built into their calendar. That date is December 21st, 2012 at 11:11 GMT. On the Mayan calendar known as the "long count" that date is presented by 13.0.0.0.0. For years it was believed that the Mayas believed this would be the end of the world as currently known. Recent studies and digs have revealed this is not at an accurate interpretation of 13.0.0.0.0. More likely it is simply that's when the calendar starts over, much like your cars odometer.

I have a few survival items I keep at the ready. I have no firearms as they are illegal here. I do have my compound hunting bow and a spear gun. I have a few cases of MRE's and basic items like water, gas, cooking fuel, tent, stove, lanterns, a chainsaw, lots of rope and a trauma bag of medical supplies. I keep these items in my cargo hitch box (it plugs into my towing hitch on my truck.)

Do I keep these items ready because I fear the end is near? No. Basically I have them with me because I drove across vast amounts of lonely desert to get here. I keep them ready because the landscape here is flat for miles and my house is less then a 100 yards to the beach. After getting here I mapped out on my GPS what I think will be the quickest route to higher ground, taking into account that I assume most major roads will be jammed. Basically I feel my main safety concern is from a possible tsunami, or more likely, a hurricane that raises the sea level dramatically.

Many people have forecast the end of times. So far, thankfully, all have been mistaken.

Manuel Hong · 03-19-2008, 03:51 PM

The best survival tool is knowledge of the natural world. Supplies run out, go bad or fail. Knowledge and connection to the Earth doesn't go away. Unless the Earth is left crippled beyond hope and the sky turns to blood and the ground to ash...in that case, I'd be relieved to die.
I can make fire, live off the land and I can identify plants for food, medicine and tools. As long as I can find myself in a natural environment, I may be alright...especially in a community. The WATER could be a problem! The way the world is being polluted, that may be the deal-breaker.
Let's hope we all get our shit together soon.

Sun Tzu · 03-19-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I live in an area steeped in Mayan culture. According to many the Maya have an end date built into their calendar. That date is December 21st, 2012 at 11:11 GMT. On the Mayan calendar known as the "long count" that date is presented by 13.0.0.0.0. For years it was believed that the Mayas believed this would be the end of the world as currently known. Recent studies and digs have revealed this is not at an accurate interpretation of 13.0.0.0.0. More likely it is simply that's when the calendar starts over, much like your cars odometer.

Thankks, thats interesting; something I havent heard (it being inaccurate).

RetroGunslinger · 03-26-2008, 06:13 PM

There's only one apocalypse I'm preparing for, and that's the zombie apocalypse.

Sun Tzu · 03-26-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetroGunslinger

There's only one apocalypse I'm preparing for, and that's the zombie apocalypse.

Then you will want to stop by here; http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=130238

this is what inspired this thread. Thanks will.

Hektore · 03-27-2008, 01:14 PM

What good are precious metals? If I have stocked up on food and essentials why do I need precious metals?

Manuel Hong · 03-27-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

What good are precious metals? If I have stocked up on food and essentials why do I need precious metals?

tools, weapons or currency would be my guess.

Sun Tzu · 03-27-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

What good are precious metals? If I have stocked up on food and essentials why do I need precious metals?

The breakdown of society can happen in many ways, without war or possibly a limited war. Sure its being paranoid that the US economy will colapse; meanwhile the dollar continues to plummet. Precious metals will be your best friend if a depression ever occurs again. Is ther a line between complacency and paranoia? We were hit on 9/11 and it was a jarring experience for everyone. However, we have not and hopfully will not experience something that jolts the very foundation we stand on.

Perhaps if there were a full scale nuclear war, life would not be worth struggling to hold to. What about another 1918 Influenza outbreak? What if OPEC decides to switch to the Euro? What if China decides to stop floating the US. Its kind of funny when people say China is making money from the US, and implying all the paper tender with a debt already attached to is going to gain value.

You cant go wrong with precious metals.

Derwood · 03-30-2008, 07:49 AM

if the bomb drops, i hope it hits my house. i don't want to try to survive a nuclear holocaust

ASU2003 · 03-31-2008, 03:59 PM

Here are the disasters I worry about and what ideas I have about what I would do.

1. Nuclear war
a. City I live in hit (I die)
-Easy way to go
b. More than 25 cities in US hit, but not mine (Jericho scenario)
-Have to work with neighbors to sequester supplies and start farming. Maybe fight a war against other countries.
c. One or two cities hit, but not mine
-Worry about radioactive fallout for two weeks if down wind. Have to stay indoors and flood bath tub with drinking water immediately for a two week supply. Live off food I have in my house, but may have to fight the crowds to pick up enough for two weeks. Have to seal up home, and use air filters. May have to evacuate to somewhere else if one of the three near-by towns was hit. May have to fight a war against another country, or figure out if it was done to incite a crusade against the muslims.

d. EMP in upper atmosphere taking out all electronics (book Lights Out scenario)
http://survivalmonkey.com/SF%20books...ut-Current.pdf
http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/ (pretty cool website for this topic, cool name too)
-This would be bad. Nobody would die at first, but most computers and cars wouldn't work. Supplies wouldn't get transported, the power gird would be shot, and things just would be a mess. I would imagine, I'd have to go to work for the power company, that is if they could get enough transformers. Otherwise it would be farm labor since farm machinery doesn't work. Then again, there is nothing left that uses power. This would be the tough one. Lots of unknown variables in what other people would do. I'm sure I could survive with basic rations, but I could see life sucking for 3-5 years.

2. Biological virus
- This one is the worse. No one is safe (or at least knows they are safe), but virus X, that takes 2-6 weeks for symptoms to show up, spread by air, and kills 95-99% of people that it infects in a slow painful death is bad. I sometimes do the whole survivorman thing and go away from civilization for a while, and I always imagine this happened while I was gone. I'm not sure what I would do. But I would probably have to survive on my own.

3. Asteroid
- Would have to stay indoors and seal up house. Would have to get lots of canned food and supplies to last if farmers can not grow enough crops due to decreased sunlight amounts. It would be about the same as a super-volcano erupting and putting a lot of ash into the air.

4. Environmental
a. Drought (world-wide)
-Causes problems when people die from not getting enough water. I would go up to Michigan and live with the parents. I could see the states that surround the great lakes imposing restrictions on water and people dying from lack of food.

b. Coastal Flood (global warming)
-It wouldn't effect my home directly, but the 1-2 billion homeless people worldwide may cause problems. I am more concerned about air pollution than CO2 levels however. I would miss the beaches, but I don't think it would impact my life very much.

5. Civil War
I don't see this happening here anymore, people don't have time to protest, let alone plan out attacks.

6. Massive currency collapse
This is one I fear. Nobody dies at first, but the only people who can live comfortably are people who can pay 10x what they currently do for things. Crimes go up through the roof and are irrational. I can handle the prices, I can't handle the poor guy who whats to kill me for my bicycle (I am saving money on gas). If people learned how to live a debt-free, non-consumerist lifestyle, this wouldn't be too bad, but it is the random crime aspect that is the problem.

I forgot,

7. Evil robot uprising
- it won't happen anytime soon, but I can't discount it from happening. We know robots can be programmed to kill humans, and there is money being spent on making them more autonomous. It is only a matter of time...

Ha Ha, just kidding...I hope...I know how to make a short range EMP burst...but they probably already thought of that...

MSD · 04-02-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU2003

7. Evil robot uprising
- it won't happen anytime soon, but I can't discount it from happening. We know robots can be programmed to kill humans, and there is money being spent on making them more autonomous. It is only a matter of time...

Ha Ha, just kidding...I hope...I know how to make a short range EMP burst...but they probably already thought of that...

Good luck building something mobile that can ground out a burst from a flux compression generator. The collapse of the secondary magnetic field induced in the Faraday cage by a unit pumping out 2M Gauss is likely to fuck up anything mobile.

highthief · 04-08-2008, 07:19 AM

I guess everyone needs a hobby ...

It is prudent to have certain emergency supplies on hand such as sufficient drinking water, candles, flashlights, etc - because we are very dependent on infrastructure which is vulnerable to things like ice storms and hurricanes.

But spending what looks like tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars prepping for the Armegeddon in the case of the OP does seem a little obsessed.

If we get hit by a giant meteor or a few hundred nukes I'm not sure that having a bunch of MREs on hand and reinforcing your basement will be of much value.

Baraka_Guru · 04-08-2008, 07:32 AM

I see myself as willing to integrate with the traditional Inuit culture.

Generally, Canada has a lot of unused land. There must be somewhere for me to go where I can make a living.

Livin' off of the fat of the land!

snowy · 04-08-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I see myself as willing to integrate with the traditional Inuit culture.

Generally, Canada has a lot of unused land. There must be somewhere for me to go where I can make a living.

Livin' off of the fat of the land!

Yeah, Oregon is lucky in that same regard; however, most of our arable land is within spitting distance of Portland, so I would be competing with quite a population for land/resources. Moving outside of the Valley in case of sudden societal collapse isn't really possible, given that most of the rest of Oregon is reliant on irrigation systems for agriculture.

Instead, I've staked out a small side-valley in the Coast Range that's only a moderate bicycle ride from here. I'm going to start collecting seeds for my pantry--my own personal seedbank--so that I'll have something to grow to help me survive. As a sidenote, I always keep a bag of potatoes on hand, not just for eating: potatoes can be turned into seed potatoes if needed. Simply cut up the potato, leaving an eye per piece, and plant the piece eye up.

It's funny, but one of my reasons for thinking so much on this issue and how it would affect me personally is the book The Postman by David Brin (no, not the awful movie), as it takes place in Oregon and even features my town.

Baraka_Guru · 04-08-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

[...]potatoes can be turned into seed potatoes if needed. Simply cut up the potato, leaving an eye per piece, and plant the piece eye up.

*Takes notes*

ASU2003 · 04-08-2008, 02:15 PM

It is fairly hard deciding what to do. It depends a lot on the situation and how other people react.

The basic plans must account for staying in place for long periods of time. But you also have to be ready to be mobile and move far away and live off the land with no power, fuel, and have safety from angry mobs that would take your stuff. You should know basic survival skills and know how to grow food or hunt.

The only other option is for you to be the aggressive alpha dog and steal and take what you need from others. You may want to include this part in your survival planning anyways.

genuinegirly · 04-08-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

What I currently have is:

* enough MREs (meals ready to eat) to feed six people for 4-5 years

* a large supply of drinking water, will invest in a filtration system soon

* a full array of medical supplies
...
Lastly, if your views are a desire not to survive, have you thought about you loved ones and what you would do if they lived but looked toward you to protect them?

Sounds like my grandfather. He moved with my grandmother to the middle of nowhere in Utah, and filled his two basements with stuff he decided he'd most likely need in a major disaster or the collapse of the world as we know it. He was certain it would happen in his lifetime. He was convinced he was doing something wonderful for his children and grandchildren.

Honestly, most everything rotted. It took my relatives several weeks/months to go through it and throw it away when it came time to sell the house.

Having a plan, being prepared for disaster is always a good thing. You'll be plenty prepared. My family always had two months' supply of food. We rotated the food regularly, so I ate more bland canned food than I want to admit in my childhood. It did come in handy for us. Since we had the food set aside, we didn't feel a crunch during the summers when my mom didn't have work.

One thing that my family set up that I do appreciate is a backyard with ~30 fruit trees (mostly dwarf and semi-dwarf), which were planted with seasonality of fruit-bearing in mind. We always had some sort of fresh fruit, no matter the time of the year. We also had chickens, and varying success with a vegetable garden. We also had a massive stockpile of seeds, and the ready skills to sprout even 30+ year old seeds with significant results.

I agree with Manuel Hong:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manuel Hong

The best survival tool is knowledge of the natural world. Supplies run out, go bad or fail. Knowledge and connection to the Earth doesn't go away. Unless the Earth is left crippled beyond hope and the sky turns to blood and the ground to ash...in that case, I'd be relieved to die.
I can make fire, live off the land and I can identify plants for food, medicine and tools. As long as I can find myself in a natural environment, I may be alright...especially in a community. The WATER could be a problem! The way the world is being polluted, that may be the deal-breaker.
Let's hope we all get our shit together soon.

The ability to produce your own food, and the land prepared for such a task, is a far more valuable thing than several hundred dollars' worth of stockpile that will most likely rot before use.

debaser · 04-20-2008, 01:40 PM

“Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.”

I have taken a different view of preparedness. A good rifle and a means of mobility are worth far more to me than a fortress with a stocked larder.

The first step is to get as far away from other people as possible, avoid the chaos. The problem with a fixed site is that is becomes a locus of interest amongst other survivors. It is very hard to keep the details of a project as ambitious as yours a secret, and in the "post-apocalyptic" arithmatic it is far cheaper to take what is yours than it is to prepare myself. My own personal morals prevent me from taking from others, but I realize that I am probably in the minority. So my own philospophy is make a small target, rough it for a while untill things calm down, re-integrate into whatever society re-forms.

Plus, given the choice of eating MREs for 4 years or being vaporized, it's really the flip of a coin...

Cynthetiq · 04-20-2008, 01:51 PM

I live at the tip of the arrow and work somewhere in the mushroom cloud.... If I have the time, I'll put my sunglasses on, otherwise, I'll enjoy the sudden wind and heat flash.

Jetée · 04-20-2008, 02:27 PM

If it should arise, I have my survivial guides handy and in check: The Twilight Zone and the Outer Limits dvds ready to reference every possible doomsday scenario.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Jeez that's a big post.

I have a bomb shelter with enough canned food to last me and another person for about 5 years *can opener breaks*... no, that's not fair. That's not fair at all. There was time now.

snowy · 04-21-2008, 12:37 PM

I'm currently reading The SAS Survival Handbook by John "Lofty" Wiseman. Supposedly I will learn "how to survive in the wild, in any climate, on land or at sea." I'm looking forward to getting to practice some of these skills this summer whilst I'm out and about. It's been very interesting and informative so far. It includes a great deal about plants and foraging, which is extremely practical.

ASU2003 · 04-21-2008, 03:07 PM

You should watch 'Into The Wild'. It isn't as informative as Survivorman or Man vs. Wild, but the ending shows that it isn't as easy as one might think.

Tully Mars · 04-21-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

I'm currently reading The SAS Survival Handbook by John "Lofty" Wiseman. Supposedly I will learn "how to survive in the wild, in any climate, on land or at sea." I'm looking forward to getting to practice some of these skills this summer whilst I'm out and about. It's been very interesting and informative so far. It includes a great deal about plants and foraging, which is extremely practical.

One of the top things on my list when thinking about surviving in the great unknown finding water is at or near the top. Being an Oregonian this should be easy for you. Now go start a fire with your glasses.

Willravel · 04-21-2008, 05:12 PM

Tully, desalination isn't too difficult. Convert it to steam via heat, simple carbon filter, enjoy.

Tully Mars · 04-21-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Tully, desalination isn't too difficult. Convert it to steam via heat, simple carbon filter, enjoy.

I lived in western Oregon for 40 years, off and on, trust me when I say I can find water without the need of any steam. And yes I'm talking about clean, salt free, fresh water- 365 days a year. It's one of the only pluses to living somewhere where it rains 200 days a year. Ok, Portland's like 155 or something but the coast is well over 200 most years.

Eastern, esp. south eastern, Oregon might require a little more work. But I'm willing to take on that challenge too, sans steam.

snowy · 04-21-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

One of the top things on my list when thinking about surviving in the great unknown finding water is at or near the top. Being an Oregonian this should be easy for you. Now go start a fire with your glasses.

I should seriously try that. I bet I could do it with my left lens.

Tully Mars · 04-21-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

I should seriously try that. I bet I could do it with my left lens.

Dry cedar bark, and or needles, and I'll bet you could use either. Of course for the very same reason waters not likely to be too much of an issue- dry's a little more work. Find them in the tree. It shields the dead material that falls off, so check the nooks and cranny's of the lower branches. Or if you're prepared- whip out that swiss army and start shaving the dead branches, inside will be dry as bone.

03-11-2008, 07:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	To me, it is all about (the cost of preparing for the event in question) divided by (the probability of the event occurring). In my opinion, that number is too large to be worth my time. I don't play the lottery for the same reason. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

03-11-2008, 07:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I certainly would feel terrible about having a SO die because I wasn't prepared with the correct medicines, as would I feel terrible about being so woefully unprepared. If I had the money to spare, I would certainly build a facility just like this. But I too agree with Redlemon. Cost / Likelihood. I own a gun because I think that the liklihood of a home invasion robbery or aggravated assault are high enough that it justifies the cost in money, and (potential) cost in life to a would-be assailant. I just don't find it likely enough that something this catastrophic will happen in my lifetime to justify taking money away from my more realistic, tangible, and short-term goals. If I found myself much richer or the world less stable, I'd be in your shoes very quickly, and I do envy your planning. One question that always plagues my mind, though, when I consider these "end of the world survival" scenarios is women. You've got the food, the shelter, the protection and medicine to potentially last months. But what are you going to do for your more .. animalistic.. needs? Furthermore, should you be the last surviving "group" of humans, would you be prepared to begin the species again? Also, what are you going to do offset cave insanity and boredom? Are you stocking books, games, etc? __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

03-11-2008, 10:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	Why would anybody want to live through the apocalypse? The world is already fucked by then. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

03-11-2008, 06:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Jeez, and I thought I was overly concerned... I've been working, as time and money allow, on establishing a pantry. Given that I'm a poor college student, this is largely limited to canned and dry goods. At the high point, I probably had about six months of food. It's dwindling again, as we're moving in four months, and I don't want to have to haul my pantry to the next place. I'd say I have about two months of food at this point. It'll take me a couple months to rebuild the pantry after relocating, but that's acceptable. I also live with two Eagle scouts who have plenty of backpacking and survival experience between the two of them. They also have a lot of survival gear. For me, my more immediate concern is loss of power due to a windstorm than a nuclear catastrophe, and so I have planned towards that end. But I do hedge my bets with my pantry. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

03-11-2008, 10:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Edit: post deleted, sorry. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 12-02-2008 at 10:05 PM..

03-11-2008, 09:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Jeez that's a big post. I have a bomb shelter with enough canned food to last me and another person for about 5 years can opener breaks... no, that's not fair. That's not fair at all. There was time now.

03-14-2008, 07:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I don't have much stocked up. I have the guns and ammo to hunt the overgrown deer population around here for years, and I live close enough to water that I can get water for a while, too. One thing to consider with MREs it that the caloric density is not as high as some other long-shelf-life foods, so if you have to get up and go, they'll take up more space than alternatives. "Two one-megaton atomic bombs explode over New York City" from The Nuclear Winter by Carl Sagan, right?

03-14-2008, 09:45 AM	#14 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	I live in an area steeped in Mayan culture. According to many the Maya have an end date built into their calendar. That date is December 21st, 2012 at 11:11 GMT. On the Mayan calendar known as the "long count" that date is presented by 13.0.0.0.0. For years it was believed that the Mayas believed this would be the end of the world as currently known. Recent studies and digs have revealed this is not at an accurate interpretation of 13.0.0.0.0. More likely it is simply that's when the calendar starts over, much like your cars odometer. I have a few survival items I keep at the ready. I have no firearms as they are illegal here. I do have my compound hunting bow and a spear gun. I have a few cases of MRE's and basic items like water, gas, cooking fuel, tent, stove, lanterns, a chainsaw, lots of rope and a trauma bag of medical supplies. I keep these items in my cargo hitch box (it plugs into my towing hitch on my truck.) Do I keep these items ready because I fear the end is near? No. Basically I have them with me because I drove across vast amounts of lonely desert to get here. I keep them ready because the landscape here is flat for miles and my house is less then a 100 yards to the beach. After getting here I mapped out on my GPS what I think will be the quickest route to higher ground, taking into account that I assume most major roads will be jammed. Basically I feel my main safety concern is from a possible tsunami, or more likely, a hurricane that raises the sea level dramatically. Many people have forecast the end of times. So far, thankfully, all have been mistaken. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

03-19-2008, 03:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
Manuel Hong Addict Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states	The best survival tool is knowledge of the natural world. Supplies run out, go bad or fail. Knowledge and connection to the Earth doesn't go away. Unless the Earth is left crippled beyond hope and the sky turns to blood and the ground to ash...in that case, I'd be relieved to die. I can make fire, live off the land and I can identify plants for food, medicine and tools. As long as I can find myself in a natural environment, I may be alright...especially in a community. The WATER could be a problem! The way the world is being polluted, that may be the deal-breaker. Let's hope we all get our shit together soon. __________________ Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

03-26-2008, 06:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
RetroGunslinger eats puppies and shits rainbows Location: An Area of Space Occupied by a Population, SC, USA	There's only one apocalypse I'm preparing for, and that's the zombie apocalypse. __________________ It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay. M.B. Keene

03-27-2008, 01:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	What good are precious metals? If I have stocked up on food and essentials why do I need precious metals? __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

03-30-2008, 07:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	if the bomb drops, i hope it hits my house. i don't want to try to survive a nuclear holocaust

03-31-2008, 03:59 PM	#23 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Here are the disasters I worry about and what ideas I have about what I would do. 1. Nuclear war a. City I live in hit (I die) -Easy way to go b. More than 25 cities in US hit, but not mine (Jericho scenario) -Have to work with neighbors to sequester supplies and start farming. Maybe fight a war against other countries. c. One or two cities hit, but not mine -Worry about radioactive fallout for two weeks if down wind. Have to stay indoors and flood bath tub with drinking water immediately for a two week supply. Live off food I have in my house, but may have to fight the crowds to pick up enough for two weeks. Have to seal up home, and use air filters. May have to evacuate to somewhere else if one of the three near-by towns was hit. May have to fight a war against another country, or figure out if it was done to incite a crusade against the muslims. d. EMP in upper atmosphere taking out all electronics (book Lights Out scenario) http://survivalmonkey.com/SF%20books...ut-Current.pdf http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/ (pretty cool website for this topic, cool name too) -This would be bad. Nobody would die at first, but most computers and cars wouldn't work. Supplies wouldn't get transported, the power gird would be shot, and things just would be a mess. I would imagine, I'd have to go to work for the power company, that is if they could get enough transformers. Otherwise it would be farm labor since farm machinery doesn't work. Then again, there is nothing left that uses power. This would be the tough one. Lots of unknown variables in what other people would do. I'm sure I could survive with basic rations, but I could see life sucking for 3-5 years. 2. Biological virus - This one is the worse. No one is safe (or at least knows they are safe), but virus X, that takes 2-6 weeks for symptoms to show up, spread by air, and kills 95-99% of people that it infects in a slow painful death is bad. I sometimes do the whole survivorman thing and go away from civilization for a while, and I always imagine this happened while I was gone. I'm not sure what I would do. But I would probably have to survive on my own. 3. Asteroid - Would have to stay indoors and seal up house. Would have to get lots of canned food and supplies to last if farmers can not grow enough crops due to decreased sunlight amounts. It would be about the same as a super-volcano erupting and putting a lot of ash into the air. 4. Environmental a. Drought (world-wide) -Causes problems when people die from not getting enough water. I would go up to Michigan and live with the parents. I could see the states that surround the great lakes imposing restrictions on water and people dying from lack of food. b. Coastal Flood (global warming) -It wouldn't effect my home directly, but the 1-2 billion homeless people worldwide may cause problems. I am more concerned about air pollution than CO2 levels however. I would miss the beaches, but I don't think it would impact my life very much. 5. Civil War I don't see this happening here anymore, people don't have time to protest, let alone plan out attacks. 6. Massive currency collapse This is one I fear. Nobody dies at first, but the only people who can live comfortably are people who can pay 10x what they currently do for things. Crimes go up through the roof and are irrational. I can handle the prices, I can't handle the poor guy who whats to kill me for my bicycle (I am saving money on gas). If people learned how to live a debt-free, non-consumerist lifestyle, this wouldn't be too bad, but it is the random crime aspect that is the problem. I forgot, 7. Evil robot uprising - it won't happen anytime soon, but I can't discount it from happening. We know robots can be programmed to kill humans, and there is money being spent on making them more autonomous. It is only a matter of time... Ha Ha, just kidding...I hope...I know how to make a short range EMP burst...but they probably already thought of that... Last edited by ASU2003; 03-31-2008 at 07:52 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

04-08-2008, 07:19 AM	#25 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	I guess everyone needs a hobby ... It is prudent to have certain emergency supplies on hand such as sufficient drinking water, candles, flashlights, etc - because we are very dependent on infrastructure which is vulnerable to things like ice storms and hurricanes. But spending what looks like tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars prepping for the Armegeddon in the case of the OP does seem a little obsessed. If we get hit by a giant meteor or a few hundred nukes I'm not sure that having a bunch of MREs on hand and reinforcing your basement will be of much value. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

04-08-2008, 07:32 AM	#26 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I see myself as willing to integrate with the traditional Inuit culture. Generally, Canada has a lot of unused land. There must be somewhere for me to go where I can make a living. Livin' off of the fat of the land! __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

04-08-2008, 02:15 PM	#29 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	It is fairly hard deciding what to do. It depends a lot on the situation and how other people react. The basic plans must account for staying in place for long periods of time. But you also have to be ready to be mobile and move far away and live off the land with no power, fuel, and have safety from angry mobs that would take your stuff. You should know basic survival skills and know how to grow food or hunt. The only other option is for you to be the aggressive alpha dog and steal and take what you need from others. You may want to include this part in your survival planning anyways.

04-20-2008, 01:40 PM	#31 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	“Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.” I have taken a different view of preparedness. A good rifle and a means of mobility are worth far more to me than a fortress with a stocked larder. The first step is to get as far away from other people as possible, avoid the chaos. The problem with a fixed site is that is becomes a locus of interest amongst other survivors. It is very hard to keep the details of a project as ambitious as yours a secret, and in the "post-apocalyptic" arithmatic it is far cheaper to take what is yours than it is to prepare myself. My own personal morals prevent me from taking from others, but I realize that I am probably in the minority. So my own philospophy is make a small target, rough it for a while untill things calm down, re-integrate into whatever society re-forms. Plus, given the choice of eating MREs for 4 years or being vaporized, it's really the flip of a coin... __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

04-20-2008, 01:51 PM	#32 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I live at the tip of the arrow and work somewhere in the mushroom cloud.... If I have the time, I'll put my sunglasses on, otherwise, I'll enjoy the sudden wind and heat flash. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

04-21-2008, 12:37 PM	#34 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I'm currently reading The SAS Survival Handbook by John "Lofty" Wiseman. Supposedly I will learn "how to survive in the wild, in any climate, on land or at sea." I'm looking forward to getting to practice some of these skills this summer whilst I'm out and about. It's been very interesting and informative so far. It includes a great deal about plants and foraging, which is extremely practical. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

04-21-2008, 03:07 PM	#35 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	You should watch 'Into The Wild'. It isn't as informative as Survivorman or Man vs. Wild, but the ending shows that it isn't as easy as one might think.

04-21-2008, 05:12 PM	#37 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Tully, desalination isn't too difficult. Convert it to steam via heat, simple carbon filter, enjoy.