Preplexed, and seemingly unexplainable - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

lktknow · 10-13-2007, 11:12 AM

Hello everyone, this is my first post here in this forum, and I registered mainly to get opinions on something that happened, that to me is unexplainable.
I was at a ribbon store in our area, the store is fairly small, but was extremely crowded on this day.
The ribbon is on rolls suspended from the ceiling, and everyone just measures out their own ribbon, and pays up front. The reason I am explaining that, is so you know that the people are in close proximity to one another.
To the left of me there was an older gentleman measuring ribbon, when 3 girls walked by us, one of the girls was pregnant, she looked to be in her 20's. The other two girls were in their early teens.
When they passed the gentleman, he said to the pregnant one, "your little one just said "Hi, my name is Josephine" to me". One of the younger girls said, "Oh my God, that's what your going to name the baby" . The pregnant one looked at the man, and said, "Excuse me"?..he said, "When you passed by me just now, your little one raised her hand, and said "Hi my name is Josephine" . He turned back and started measuring his ribbon again.
The three girls were staring at the man, but then turned and started looking at ribbon. The pregnant ones hands seemed to be shaking as she took the ribbon in them, it sent a chill up my spine. This all happened in a matter of minutes. The pregnant girl was visibly upset, and the three of them turned to leave, but she went to the man, and asked, "Did she say anything else to you?", and he said "no, she just raised her hand to me when you walked past, and said "Hi, my name is Josephine, that's all". and the three girls left.
I have only posted this in one other forum, but the responses I received were not too gratifying. Of course, I don't know what it would take to make a response satisfying, but just wanted a bit more input than what I have received so far.
Most of the results in the other forum went about explaining how this was very logically explainable. Such as the man had seen the three girls at an earlier time and overheard their conversation, and decided to have some fun with them. Which is a perfectly explainable reason for him knowing the information, but if you had of been there, you would have been able to sense, that it was not true. The man and the girls had never laid eyes on one another.
I would like some feedback on what your opinions would be on this situation.
I have been lurking here in the forum a while now, and I would value any and all responses, because from what I have read, you all seem to be, not only intelligent, but also broadminded enough to step outside of the box, and offer your opinions

tecoyah · 10-13-2007, 11:28 AM

You are correct, this cannot be explained....but, that does not mean its not real. Hell, I burned myself last week on flame, and no one fully understands it yet I will tell you right now....it's real.

shesus · 10-13-2007, 11:29 AM

I don't discount anything. We only use a small portion of our mind. The other portion that most people don't use is unknown. Who's to say that this guy doesn't have psychic tendencies? People see auras. People predict the future. People have previous lives that they can recall memories from. Why can't this guy have a greeting from a fetus? It would definitely disturb me to hear that. It's very random.

The cynical part of me was thinking what yo posted about the logical explanation. He may be a lonely, strange old man that overheard a conversation and wanted to have some fun.

People believe what they want to believe. Only he knows for sure what happened.

Ustwo · 10-13-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shesus

I don't discount anything. We only use a small portion of our mind. The other portion that most people don't use is unknown. Who's to say that this guy doesn't have psychic tendencies? People see auras. People predict the future. People have previous lives that they can recall memories from. Why can't this guy have a greeting from a fetus? It would definitely disturb me to hear that. It's very random.

The cynical part of me was thinking what yo posted about the logical explanation. He may be a lonely, strange old man that overheard a conversation and wanted to have some fun.

People believe what they want to believe. Only he knows for sure what happened.

No they don't, but if they did they can go to this website and claim a prize.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

You know, if I ever overhear what someone is going to name their baby, I know how I'm going to have some fun

Quote:

but if you had of been there, you would have been able to sense, that it was not true. The man and the girls had never laid eyes on one another.

Excellent, YOU are psychic too!

albania · 10-13-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shesus

We only use a small portion of our mind. The other portion that most people don't use is unknown.

That's somewhat misleading. We only use a small portion of our mind at any given time. Think of your brain as a garage holding a bunch of tools. Say you're trying to cut a piece of wood. It wouldn't make much sense to use all the tools in your garage at the same time now would it? Same thing with the brain. We use pretty much all of our brain just not all of it at the same time.

To the OP: As for your experience, I don't know how anyone can give you any satisfactory response. There are people who will disagree with your implied conclusion, others who won't. In the end, neither will give you any more insight into the sittuation. It's up to you to make what you will of it.

MSD · 10-13-2007, 02:15 PM

That the overheard them and decided to fuck with them is a lot more believable than the idea that he actually communicated with an in utero child.

ngdawg · 10-13-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

That the overheard them and decided to fuck with them is a lot more believable than the idea that he actually communicated with an in utero child.

I am in agreement here. Normally, I believe in what could be blanketly(new word?) be called 'universal energies', but this guy was just being a putz playing head games.
You'd be surprised what random people will pick up in passing and run with it...

analog · 10-13-2007, 02:25 PM

That's incredible!

You mean to tell me there's a store that just sells ribbons?

But seriously... when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation- and not just reasonable, but downright likely- I will take that over a physically impossible and improbable/unproven psychological phenomenon like telepathy.

fresnelly · 10-13-2007, 06:15 PM

Even accepting that the gentleman is psychic, his exchange with the fetus is way, way out there.

That simple greeting implies the fetus has an understanding of lanuguage, self, gender identity (to accept the mother's girl name choice), social ettiquette, a fully formed outgoing personality, trust in strangers and to top it all off, a psychic connection with the Mother not to mention an ability to recognize and comprehend the external man and his thoughts.

lktknow · 10-13-2007, 11:26 PM

I truly appreciate all the responses. Albania was right when they said no one would be able to give me a satisfactory answer, and I more or less knew that going in, I just wanted honest opinions on what you all would think of the possibility of it truly happening. But in the end, I will have to make of it what I will, like they said.
I liked what Ustwo said about "Excellent, YOU are psychic too", very apropos.
I am also in agreement with the majority of the responses, as far as the guy possibly overhearing the information at an earlier time, even though I "felt" as if they had never laid eyes on one another. I think it was because of the complete nonchalance of the guy who said it, and he resembled nothing like what you would expect a jokester to look like. (course, what does a practical joker look like?) He was a man in his late 50's early 60's, and from my brief encounter , he just seemed rather serene, or?? Right before the three girls came in, he had asked to borrow my pen to write his ribbon lengths down. We didn't speak, I just handed him the pen, and he thanked me, and gave it back when he was done.
When all is said and done about this subject, it seems like fresnelly hit the nail on the head, and it seems a person with any common sense would logic it out the way they explained it, and realize , it just couldn't happen. I think it was analog that said "when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, and not just reasonable but downright likely- I will take that over a physically impossible and improbable/unproven psychological phenomenon like telepathy."
again, thank you for the input.
marlene

Johnny Rotten · 10-14-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shesus

I don't discount anything. We only use a small portion of our mind. The other portion that most people don't use is unknown.

Well, we only use 10-15% of our brain at one time. All of it gets used at one point or another, depending on the stimuli.

It's kind of like the hard drive in your computer. It holds a ton of data, but only a portion of that data needs to be read at a given moment. Unless you're playing a video game or rendering something, the overwhelming majority of the system is idling.

The mind has evolved to make the most efficient use of energy and storage. There aren't any areas that never get used.

DaveOrion · 10-14-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

No they don't, but if they did they can go to this website and claim a prize.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

You know, if I ever overhear what someone is going to name their baby, I know how I'm going to have some fun

Excellent, YOU are psychic too!

I'm surprised you weren't the first in line to debunk another myth. Do you ever get tired of this

....nevermind. You really should live at the skeptics board, your true home.

Simple answer Marrrlee, ESP.

Martian · 10-15-2007, 04:20 AM

There's a reason that most illusionists are confirmed skeptics. Guys like James Randi, Criss Angel and going back to Harry Houdini are all able to do things that, to an uninformed observer seem completely unexplainable. And there's always a rational explanation, even if the observer never knows what it is.

The rational explanations are boring, because they attribute everything to the mundane. They're also always right. Having dabbled in mentalism myself, I've seen that 'how the fuck did you do/know that?; look, and it can be quite powerful (as well as a great way to pick up, but that's beside the point). The technical term for what is most probably going on here is what's referred to as a hot reading. This is in contrast to the much more common cold reading; hot readings are harder to do, because they require some foreknowledge on the mark. All the same, it's not difficult to imagine that this gent overheard this expectant mother speaking with one of her other daughters out on the street and followed them into the store specifically to have a bit of a game and get that reaction.

That said, believe whatever makes you happiest. You're never going to get a complete answer short of tracking the old guy down and that seems a bit extreme.

Ustwo · 10-15-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

Simple answer Marrrlee, ESP.

Yes that is a simple answer

ratbastid · 10-15-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Guys like James Randi, Criss Angel and going back to Harry Houdini are all able to do things that, to an uninformed observer seem completely unexplainable. And there's always a rational explanation, even if the observer never knows what it is.

Criss Angel is now doing a "who's got psy powers" American Idol knockoff show, co-hosting with Uri Geller. For the love of all that is good, PLEASE PLEASE don't utter his name in the same sentence with Randi and Houdini.

This old guy might have the ability to speak to the unborn, but Occam's Razor prefers that he overheard little proto-Josephine's name, or is the uncle of the brother of somebody who works in her OB's office, or something like that.

DaveOrion · 10-15-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

The rational explanations are boring, because they attribute everything to the mundane. They're also always right. Having dabbled in mentalism myself, I've seen that 'how the fuck did you do/know that?; look, and it can be quite powerful (as well as a great way to pick up, but that's beside the point). The technical term for what is most probably going on here is what's referred to as a hot reading. This is in contrast to the much more common cold reading; hot readings are harder to do, because they require some foreknowledge on the mark. All the same, it's not difficult to imagine that this gent overheard this expectant mother speaking with one of her other daughters out on the street and followed them into the store specifically to have a bit of a game and get that reaction.

That said, believe whatever makes you happiest. You're never going to get a complete answer short of tracking the old guy down and that seems a bit extreme.

Hey, the old guy may have overheard something or he may actually have ESP. To say that the mundane boring explanation is always right is completely wrong. It is not always right, there are things that are inexplicable. Once again, just to be clear,Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation tends to be correct, but not always.

ratbastid · 10-15-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation tends to be correct, but not always.

Which is why I said Occam prefers the mundane explanation. I originally wrote "demands", but revised it for the very reason you cite.

Ustwo · 10-15-2007, 01:02 PM

Of course if you can speak to the unborn this will REALLY screw up the pro-abortion crowd

Not only are the unborn thinking humans, they can hold up their hand and even know their name!

Nimetic · 10-15-2007, 02:04 PM

Hmm.

But at the same time... sometimes people are predictable. We were walking along one day and went past some young teenage girls who'd obviously drunk more coffee than was good for them. They were chattering wildly.

I turned to my parter and whispered 'oh my god', in the melodramatic American sitcom fashion.

A half-second later... a loud "Oh... my.... god...." was heard from the girls we'd passed.

So I'd managed to predict their next statement : >

Martian · 10-15-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

Hey, the old guy may have overheard something or he may actually have ESP. To say that the mundane boring explanation is always right is completely wrong. It is not always right, there are things that are inexplicable. Once again, just to be clear,Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation tends to be correct, but not always.

I will amend that then, if you want to be pedantic, and say that in every known instance of seemingly psychic or paranormal activity that has ever been investigated properly using scientific method a rational explanation has been found; in those where no rational explanation exists a proper scientific inquiry was not conducted, despite what those investigating may have claimed or even believed.

And you're correct that the principle of parsimony (popularly known as Occam's Razor) does not ever demand anything. If you read my prior post carefully, you will find that I did not mention said principle at any point, although it certainly is applicable here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by principle of parsimony

In the absence of any other factors, the explanation requiring the least number of assumptions is usually correct

Applying that here, we find that of our two scenarios, the idea that the old duffer obtained his information through an unknown but logically explainable means requires one assumption: that he overheard or otherwise came across this information in some way connected to his young victim. Our second scenario, that the man is psychic, requires several assumptions; it requires us to assume first that the man possesses an ability that has not been shown to exist, despite decades of debate and mountains of research performed by a number of independent organizations, (which is two assumptions in and of itself), that this ability allows the man to communicate with a foetus in utero which, depending on it's stage of development, may not even be capable of independent thought yet and that it somehow allows the man to form a common basis of communication with the foetus through which it may transmit not only ideas, but actual words. It also requires us to assume that the foetus knows what it's mother plans on naming it, which suggests a level of cognitive capability beyond that of an actual newborn infant, whom we must assume is more developed than an as-yet unborn one. In light of this disparity in unknowns, the probability of this being a legitimate instance of psychic ability is vanishingly small; it's possible in the same sense that it's possible that Tom Cruise is an alien. Or less so even, I'd say.

For the record, I did actually debate with myself on whether or not to stick an 'almost' before the criticized 'always.' It was a conscious decision on my part not to do so, because I will not support belief in something that has not been shown to exist. I find it mind-boggling that some individuals will claim that there's no such thing as an Easter bunny but that ESP happens every day, despite the fact that the body of evidence for each is basically identical (all the more telling when one considers that there has never been, to my knowledge, any scientific inquiries into the existence of said lagomorph).

So yes; while I cannot prove that this was not a case of psychic ability, I feel confident in taking it as granted that it was not. Lest this was missed before, I will point out again that I have dabbled in illusionism myself in the past including mentalism. I have previously invoked through perfectly ordinary means a reaction identical to the one described above. These things happen. Psychic powers, according to every shred of evidence we have on the matter, do not.

ratbastid: Just goes to show that maybe I should turn on my television more often; knowing that he would associate with a hack like Geller causes me to lose a great deal of respect for Criss Angel.

ratbastid · 11-01-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Criss Angel is now doing a "who's got psy powers" American Idol knockoff show, co-hosting with Uri Geller. For the love of all that is good, PLEASE PLEASE don't utter his name in the same sentence with Randi and Houdini.

I take this back completely. Observe the following video of the LIVE throwdown that happened on "Phenomenon" last night, when Criss Angel challenged a psy-claiming contender AND Uri Geller to tell him the contents of an envelope from his pocket.

YouTube - Jim Callahan finds Criss Angel an ideological bigot

Martian · 11-01-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I take this back completely. Observe the following video of the LIVE throwdown that happened on "Phenomenon" last night, when Criss Angel challenged a psy-claiming contender AND Uri Geller to tell him the contents of an envelope from his pocket.

I burst out laughing after the 'possession' began. You'd think the all-knowing spirits would be able to convey information without inducing a grand mal seizure.

Also, how is asking someone to prove the abilities they claim to have bigotry in any way, shape or form? Seems like sort of an extreme reaction to me.

ratbastid · 11-01-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I burst out laughing after the 'possession' began. You'd think the all-knowing spirits would be able to convey information without inducing a grand mal seizure.

Also, how is asking someone to prove the abilities they claim to have bigotry in any way, shape or form? Seems like sort of an extreme reaction to me.

Well, it was an obvious deflection, just like the "hypocrite" copy that surrounds that YouTube video. It seems like a bad idea to post a picture of you obviously behaving like a fraudulent jackass, and then point out that others are hypocrites for also being borderline fraudulent jackasses.

Ustwo · 11-01-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I take this back completely. Observe the following video of the LIVE throwdown that happened on "Phenomenon" last night, when Criss Angel challenged a psy-claiming contender AND Uri Geller to tell him the contents of an envelope from his pocket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE45QHIUfiM

Thats hilarious. Ok I feel better now, I heard a promo for that show on wed morning on the radio and a little bit more hope in me died. That intro was so over the top another bit died, then the punchline at the end brought those bits back to life.

Plan9 · 11-01-2007, 06:33 PM

*dons big Jamaican hair wig*

CALL ME NOW!

...

Only ESP we might have consists of "gaydar" and the "bullshit detector."

ottopilot · 11-02-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lktknow

I truly appreciate all the responses. Albania was right when they said no one would be able to give me a satisfactory answer, and I more or less knew that going in, I just wanted honest opinions on what you all would think of the possibility of it truly happening.

If this is a true account, then I'd like to believe it was possible for the man and the unborn child/soul to have communicated (fetus or meat-wad for those who believe the unborn are soulless).

None of us can say with any certainty what happens to us spiritually when we die. I believe similar knowledge is lacking regarding our spiritual and intellectual capability prior to birth. Some believe we possess perfect spiritual innocence and knowledge at birth, and that we gradually lose our ability to utilize this knowledge by environmental, emotional, and social life-experiences.

Another aspect could be that all people are just not created equal. For some that are born with multiple genitalia, there are those who are born with none (did I really say that?)... so shouldn't anomalies in the spectrum of physiological or neurological characteristics allow for the possibility of "psychic" abilities? Could some of us be transmitters and receivers? There are people who have claimed to be able to pick up radio stations in tooth fillings or in subcutaneous implants like a steel plate in their skull. If we aren't aware of the transmissions, or if our mechanism is incompatible with the waveforms and frequencies around us, then why would we assume that communication is taking place? Like in "Horton Hears a Who"

The distractions of the busy ribbon store may seem like an unlikely place for such an exchange to occur. It could have been very disturbing for the mother or anyone not open to such possibilities. The guy may have just been a creep... but I'd like to believe that this story could be true... that such a pure and simple exchange could occur... an innocent soul proudly introducing herself to someone who acknowledges her before entering the new world.

... that was kind of sappy and out there.

DaveOrion · 11-03-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

If this is a true account, then I'd like to believe it was possible for the man and the unborn child/soul to have communicated (fetus or meat-wad for those who believe the unborn are soulless).

None of us can say with any certainty what happens to us spiritually when we die. I believe similar knowledge is lacking regarding our spiritual and intellectual capability prior to birth. Some believe we possess perfect spiritual innocence and knowledge at birth, and that we gradually lose our ability to utilize this knowledge by environmental, emotional, and social life-experiences.

Another aspect could be that all people are just not created equal. For some that are born with multiple genitalia, there are those who are born with none (did I really say that?)... so shouldn't anomalies in the spectrum of physiological or neurological characteristics allow for the possibility of "psychic" abilities? Could some of us be transmitters and receivers? There are people who have claimed to be able to pick up radio stations in tooth fillings or in subcutaneous implants like a steel plate in their skull. If we aren't aware of the transmissions, or if our mechanism is incompatible with the waveforms and frequencies around us, then why would we assume that communication is taking place? Like in "Horton Hears a Who"

The distractions of the busy ribbon store may seem like an unlikely place for such an exchange to occur. It could have been very disturbing for the mother or anyone not open to such possibilities. The guy may have just been a creep... but I'd like to believe that this story could be true... that such a pure and simple exchange could occur... an innocent soul proudly introducing herself to someone who acknowledges her before entering the new world.

... that was kind of sappy and out there.

It may be a bit sappy & out there, but I think it was well said anyway. Most people tend to go along with the crowd, are afraid to be different, & always seem to conform to what society deems as 'normal'. It takes real intestinal fortitude (guts) to say what you really think, especially when that mindset goes against traditional scientific thought.

I still say the simplest explanation is that there was some type of telepathic communication. Occam's Razor and all that........

Ustwo · 11-03-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

I still say the simplest explanation....

ottopilot · 11-05-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

You keep using that word....

that's inconthhheivable!

Martian · 11-05-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

None of us can say with any certainty what happens to us spiritually when we die. I believe similar knowledge is lacking regarding our spiritual and intellectual capability prior to birth. Some believe we possess perfect spiritual innocence and knowledge at birth, and that we gradually lose our ability to utilize this knowledge by environmental, emotional, and social life-experiences.

Some believe the world rides on the back of a giant tortoise. Believing something does not make it true, or even likely.

We can, however, make firm statements regarding the physiological development of new human beings. We know roughly when and how language abilities develop in children. We have a pretty good idea what part of the brain is responsible for this, even. And we know that if that part of the brain is damaged or destroyed (or in the this case, not yet developed) speech is impossible. We also know that newborn children do not possess the cognitive capability to understand such abstract concepts as names and identities. It seems highly unlikely to me that an unborn child should possess abilities and knowledge a newborn does not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

Another aspect could be that all people are just not created equal. For some that are born with multiple genitalia, there are those who are born with none (did I really say that?)... so shouldn't anomalies in the spectrum of physiological or neurological characteristics allow for the possibility of "psychic" abilities? Could some of us be transmitters and receivers? There are people who have claimed to be able to pick up radio stations in tooth fillings or in subcutaneous implants like a steel plate in their skull. If we aren't aware of the transmissions, or if our mechanism is incompatible with the waveforms and frequencies around us, then why would we assume that communication is taking place? Like in "Horton Hears a Who"

Which is all well and good, except that it runs contrary to all the information we have on the subject. It is theoretically possible for tooth fillings to pick up a radio transmission. I've never heard a confirmed case of this anyway, but regardless, the science is there. There is no scientific evidence of psychic abilities, and people have been looking. Numerous studies have been performed; the CIA even did their own investigation on remote viewing that spanned twenty years. In all of this, not only was there no evidence of any such mechanism for communicating, there was also no evidence that anybody actually possessed the abilities claimed.

ottopilot · 11-05-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Some believe the world rides on the back of a giant tortoise. Believing something does not make it true, or even likely.

We can, however, make firm statements regarding the physiological development of new human beings. We know roughly when and how language abilities develop in children. We have a pretty good idea what part of the brain is responsible for this, even. And we know that if that part of the brain is damaged or destroyed (or in the this case, not yet developed) speech is impossible. We also know that newborn children do not possess the cognitive capability to understand such abstract concepts as names and identities. It seems highly unlikely to me that an unborn child should possess abilities and knowledge a newborn does not.

Which is all well and good, except that it runs contrary to all the information we have on the subject. It is theoretically possible for tooth fillings to pick up a radio transmission. I've never heard a confirmed case of this anyway, but regardless, the science is there. There is no scientific evidence of psychic abilities, and people have been looking. Numerous studies have been performed; the CIA even did their own investigation on remote viewing that spanned twenty years. In all of this, not only was there no evidence of any such mechanism for communicating, there was also no evidence that anybody actually possessed the abilities claimed.

All good points, we may want to spend some time discussing quantum theory.

DaveOrion · 11-06-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

In all of this, not only was there no evidence of any such mechanism for communicating, there was also no evidence that anybody actually possessed the abilities claimed.

Oh really???

Quote:

Scientists tend to have a skeptical view of ESP and parapsychology. If a person were to turn on the television at two o'clock in the morning they would be bombarded by commercials for various psychic hotlines. A celebrity whose career probably isn't going as well as they would like usually hosts the commercials. They introduce some eccentric person who is a psychic to the stars. I recently heard one of the more popular ones the psychic friends network has gone out of business. I guess the psychics they have working for them didn't pick up on the future financial problems. There seems to be a lot of room for fraud when it comes to ESP. Because of this people are naturally skeptical. Does this mean that ESP and the researchers investigating this phenomenon arrant doing valid research? Surprisingly there is research indicating that there is something to ESP.
When most people think of parapsychologists researching ESP they automatically think of ESP testing cards. J.B Rhine who is some times refereed to the father of parapsychology created these cards. His career in parapsychology began at Duke University in the late 1920s. Rhine became interested in ESP after hearing Sir Arthur Conan Doyle speak about ESP and spiritualism in the early 1920s. He began having children guess numbers that were stamped on cards. Not getting the results he wanted Rhine asked a college Karl Zener a specialist in perception to design a set of cards that could be easily remembered. The cards consisted of 5 symbols the subjects were to guess which symbol was on the card. They ran four separate experiments. The results were 558 hits out of 1,850 trails. Chance would account for 370 hits making the odds 22 billion -to- one. (Broughton, 66-70)

ESP research was taken even further at the Maimonides medical center in Brooklyn New York. The studies at Maimonides took place in the mid 1960s. The experiments mainly focused on ESP and dreams. The mainmonides lab discounted Rhine's card guessing tests and started a new approach. They preferred a more free approach compared with the forced guessing method of the cards. What they did was have one person sleeping and one person mentally send a picture that was sealed in an envelope. The two people would be separated in two different rooms. The dreamer was hooked up to a polygraph machine. When the dreamer reached the REM state indicating the dreamer had started to dream. When the dreamer entered this state a buzzer would sound in the room were the sender was in. The sender would look at a picture and try to send it to the dreaming person. When the REM state stopped the person who was dreaming would be woken up, asked what they were dreaming about, and recorded. This routine would go on through out the time. They would usually get around four dreams. The nightly dreams would then be sealed up and sent to be transcribed. The transcriptions would then be sent to outside judges who would rank the nightly transcripts against the possible target pictures. The judges did not know which picture had been used in the session. They would rank each transcript according to the similarity to picture. The best rank a picture would get would be a one, indicating a direct hit. One example of this is the man doing the dreaming was dreaming of New Mexico, mountains, clouds, and Pueblo Indians going down into a Mayan-Aztec civilization. The target picture was Zapatistas by Carlos Oscar Romero. The picture was of Mexican Indians marching. There are mountains and clouds in the background. The judges labeled this as a striking hit. (Broughton 89-92)

The researchers also modified the format of the dreamer and sender experiments. They wanted to test precognition in dreams or the ability to perceive future events. For this type of experiment they still had the dreamer go to sleep, hooked up to the polygraph would wake them up after the REM state occurred, and recorded their dreams. Then the following morning a person who had no knowledge of the dreams that were recorded would randomly select a picture. A dramatic example of this was a person was dreaming of a hospital and Doctors in white coats. The doctors in his dream called him Mr. Van Gogh. The target picture was Vincent Van Gogh's Hospital Corridor at Saint Remy. The judges labeled this as a direct hit. (Broughton 95-96)

The dream lab closed in 1978 due to lack of funding. Most of the original members had moved on prior to this. Despite a shaky start producing evidence proving ESP exists they did get some significant findings. They did a statistical analysis of the labs results in 1988. The findings were out of 379 trails there were 233 hits. This shows an accuracy rate of 83.5 %. Chance would have been 50%, making the odds against chance about a quarter of a million to one. (Broughton 97-98)

Out of the research at the Mainmonides a new method of investigating ESP came about. This new method came to be known as the Ganzfelt technique. Ganzfelt comes from the German word that means whole field. One of the reasons Ganzfelt came about was because the research at Miamonaides required the staff and subjects to stay up all night it was fairly expensive. A parapsychologist named Charles Honorton was its creator. Honorton wondered if ESP was a weak sense and deduced the reason it was so prevalent in dreams was due to the fact that external stimuli it markedly reduced. When persons dreaming there focused internally. He though about some eastern religions that used meditation who often linked meditation with ESP. He devised a technique that was similar to sensory depravation and meditation. What they did was to tape Ping-Pong balls that were cut in half to person's eyes. The Ping-Pong balls are fitted to the person's eyes so it's not uncomfortable. This is done to reduce the persons visually input. Then the person puts headphones on and listens to a hiss that is played through them. This is designed to reduce the audio input of the subject. A red light is shined on the person's face so with the Ping Pong balls they will see a pink glow. Then the subject sits back in a reclining chair to minimize tactile input. The person is to let their mind go blank, let images and sensations flow, and say what ever comes to mind. A computer randomly selects a picture in another room. The target picture is then sealed in an envelope with three other pictures. After the person is finished describing what they see, the sealed envelope is brought out to them. The subject is to rank each picture on how close it is to what they perceived. Although this changed when Honorton headed Psychophysical Research Laboratories (PRL) at Princeton University's Forrestal Center research campus. At PRL they would have a computer select a target which could be a picture, a film clip, a cartoon, or even a commercial. The sessions would last about a half-hour when they are done the computer turns on a television in the subject's room and shows the person four target pictures. As with the earlier experiments the subjects rates then compared to the images and sensory information they perceived. (Broughton 105-107)

The most recent studies around ESP actually came from interestingly enough the United States government. The United States government became interested in ESP in the early 1960s. An article in a French magazine called Science and Life called "The Secret of the Nautilus" would start a psychic cold war. The article reported that the US government did a secret test that involved using telepathy to communicate with a submarine submerged under an Arctic ice cap. The story turned out not to be true but the soviets took the article very seriously. The soviets began heavily funding research experiments. By the late 1960s the US government saw how much the soviets were spending began looking into researching ESP them selves. This research came to be known as remote viewing. (Schnabel 90-92)

Remote viewing essentially is a scientific term for clairvoyance. It is defined as the ability of experienced or inexperienced to view, by means of mental processes, remote geographical or technical targets such as roads, buildings, and laboratory apparatus. (Targ and Puthoff ix) Put more simply it could be defined as the ability to perceive remote locations while not being there physically. Remote viewing experiments started in early 1970s at Stanford Research Institute. Interestingly enough, the researchers who were doing the experiments weren't parapsychologists they were physicists. The two men responsible for a new direction in the field of parapsychology were Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff.

Harold Puthoff was teaching at Stanford University's electrical engineering department. He received a Ph.D. from Stanford, had a patent on a laser he invented, and co-authored a book called Fundamentals of Quantum Electronics. He was also very bored with his life. He left Stanford University and joined Stanford Research Institute (SRI). He was hired at SRI to work on a laser project for the government. Most of the money SRI received was through government contracts, although it was still related to Stanford University. After the project Puthoff was working on winded down he decided to peruse one of his own interests ESP research. After checking with his boss he began to look for funding. A friend of his named Bill Church who owned a chicken restaurant chain gave him ten thousand dollars. After this remote viewing research was born.(Schnabel 86-87)

Shortly after Puthoff got some funding a man by the name of Ingo Swann contacted him Swann was an artist and also a psychic. He participated in psychic research at City College of New York and American Society for Psychical Research. Swann claimed that he could influence the temperature of a graphite rod and travel out of his body and view objects hidden in a laboratory. Puthoff flew him out to SRI. (Schnabel 87-88)

Two days after Swann arrived at SRI Puthoff did an interesting experiment. He took Ingo to the physics building at Stanford University. Puthoff wanted to see if Swann could influence the output of an experimental magnetometer. This magnetometer was designed to measure very small magnetic field perturbations. Swann had never tried any thing like this before and said he would try clairvoyantly to see inside the magnetometer. As he did this, the magnetometer input suddenly changed as indicated by the printed read out of the meter. Convinced he had found something significant Puthoff wrote up a small report with the output reading of the magnetometer and sent it to a few government offices. A few weeks later the government let Puthoff know they were interested. The government agency that ended up funding the research at SRI began with the CIA. After seeing an experiment where Swann correctly described the contents of a box the CIA was funding ESP research. The target in the box was a moth. (Schnabel 86-89)

Remote viewing essentially is a scientific term for clairvoyance. It is defined as the ability of experienced or inexperienced to view, by means of mental processes, remote geographical or technical targets such as roads, buildings, and laboratory apparatus. (Targ and Puthoff ix) Put more simply it could be defined as the ability to perceive remote locations while not being there physically. Remote viewing experiments started in early 1970s at Stanford Research Institute. Interestingly enough, the researchers who were doing the experiments weren't parapsychologists they were physicists. The two men responsible for a new direction in the field of parapsychology were Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff.

Harold Puthoff was teaching at Stanford University's electrical engineering department. He received a Ph.D. from Stanford, had a patent on a laser he invented, and co-authored a book called Fundamentals of Quantum Electronics. He was also very bored with his life. He left Stanford University and joined Stanford Research Institute (SRI). He was hired at SRI to work on a laser project for the government. Most of the money SRI received was through government contracts, although it was still related to Stanford University. After the project Puthoff was working on winded down he decided to peruse one of his own interests ESP research. After checking with his boss he began to look for funding. A friend of his named Bill Church who owned a chicken restaurant chain gave him ten thousand dollars. After this remote viewing research was born.(Schnabel 86-87)

Shortly after Puthoff got some funding a man by the name of Ingo Swann contacted him Swann was an artist and also a psychic. He participated in psychic research at City College of New York and American Society for Psychical Research. Swann claimed that he could influence the temperature of a graphite rod and travel out of his body and view objects hidden in a laboratory. Puthoff flew him out to SRI. (Schnabel 87-88)

Two days after Swann arrived at SRI Puthoff did an interesting experiment. He took Ingo to the physics building at Stanford University. Puthoff wanted to see if Swann could influence the output of an experimental magnetometer. This magnetometer was designed to measure very small magnetic field perturbations. Swann had never tried any thing like this before and said he would try clairvoyantly to see inside the magnetometer. As he did this, the magnetometer input suddenly changed as indicated by the printed read out of the meter. Convinced he had found something significant Puthoff wrote up a small report with the output reading of the magnetometer and sent it to a few government offices. A few weeks later the government let Puthoff know they were interested. The government agency that ended up funding the research at SRI began with the CIA. After seeing an experiment where Swann correctly described the contents of a box the CIA was funding ESP research. The target in the box was a moth. (Schnabel 86-89)

Remote viewing first happened as sort of an accident. Shortly after getting the CIA contract Puthoff hired a man named Russell Targ. Like Puthoff Targ was also a laser physicist. Targ created an ESP training machine. The machine consisted of a computer that had light bulbs behind four slides. The computer would randomly light up a slide and the subject using this was to guess which slide would light up. Ingo Swann didn't like this machine. It reminded him of the earlier forced choice work in parapsychology. One day Swann suggested that Puthoff and Targ give him geological coordinates and he would describe what he saw. Puthoff and Targ didn't like this mainly because if Swann did get accurate information skeptics would ague that he had a photographic memory. Ingo would not let this go after threatening to quit Puthoff and Targ finally gave in. After trying this a few times they decided to do some more research in this area after Swann successfully described the coordinates. (Schnabel 98-104) This procedure evolved into the remote viewer or psychic and a monitor in a sound proofed room that was shielded from electromagnetic waves. The monitor's job is to ask questions and talk to and the remote viewer. Neither of them have any idea what the target location is. Then one or two people in another room with roll a die and pick up a manila envelope correlating with the number that was rolled on the die. They would open the envelope and a location is in side it. The people them go to the location for about a half-hour and then come back. The people that do this are called out-bounders. (McMoneagle 44-45)

A dramatic example of remote viewing ability is a man named Pat Price. Pat Price was a police commissioner, vice mayor of Burbank Ca, and was the president of a coal company. Pat called Puthoff and told him that he used his psychic abilities to solve crimes when he was on the police force. (Targ and Puthoff 46) Puttoff got many calls like this a day but on a whim or perhaps intuition he gave Price the coordinates that a friend who was in the military gave him. Price sent Puthoff a five-page report going in to great detail about the place. Price said it was a military installation and even read the names of files that were on a desk and in locked cabinets. Puthoff's friend told him the coordinates were of his college's summer cabin and that price was wrong. A week later Puthoff's friend took his family for a drive in the countryside. A few miles away from his college's cabin was a dirt road and a sign that said government property no tress passing. The following Monday Puthoffs friend asked some one about the base and passed on all the information that Pat Price had perceived. With in a few days military officials were interrogating Puthoffs friend. They wanted to know how he got into the base and why. Not buying his explanation Targ and Puthoff were interrogated too. The military official also knocked on neighbor's doors asking if they were communists. It turns out that Price was correct after all. (Schnabel 108-112)

SRI's ten million military contract was terminated in 1989. The research at SRI produced some exciting results. A statistical analysis showed that of all the research done at SRI. It was based on 154 experiments, consisting of over 26,000 separate trials, conducted over 16 years. The statistical analysis came out to be a billion to one against chance. Although some people suggest the early research methods at SRI had some flaws. (Radin 101)

The current research with ESP has also shown significant results. Particularly the research of a man named Dean Radin. He has been called the Einstein of parapsychology. Radin is director of the conscious research Lab at the University of Arizona. One interesting experiment that was done had a subject sit in a chair about two feet from a color computer monitor. On the persons first two fingers of the left had electrodes are attached to record fluctuations in the skin conductance. On the third finger of the left hand a device is attached to record the heart rate and the amount of blood in the fingertips. The signals from these are then fed into a computer. The subject then rests their left hand on their lap. With their right hand they hold a computer mouse when there ready to begin the subject presses the mouse button. Then the computer selects one target image out of a large group of different images. When this is being done the monitor only shows a blank screen. The images that the computer chooses fall into two categories, calm and emotional. Calm pictures usually consist of nature scenery, cheery people, or a relaxing situation. Emotional pictures are disturbing images such as an autopsy. After five seconds of the blank screen the target photo is shown for three seconds. A blank screen then follows this again for five seconds. After another five-second-rest period the subject is told to press the mouse button and the sequence repeats using a different target image. The subject's physiological responses to the three sequences are measured. The person view forty different pictures one at a time in a single sitting. The study had some fascinating findings, for instance before seeing a calm picture the subjects heart rate would increase a little then it would steadily drop. It was as if the subject knew the picture was going to be relaxing. In comparison too this before the person saw a disturbing picture the participants pre-acted to their own future emotional stress. They also found that the electrodermal activity was much higher before the emotional picture than before the calm pictures. It is important to note that most of the people were not consciously aware what kind of picture was going to come up. This indicates that this phenomenon is a largely unconscious process. (Radin 118-124)

There is now solid evidence that ESP is very much real. If this is the case, we must change the way we think about reality. Most scientists today believe that ESP is impossible because it violates certain natural laws such as time and space. There is however a theory that explains this: the field consciousness theory. This theory has been around for years in which Carl Jung called it the collective unconscious and it has also been referred to as global mind. The basic premise of the field consciousness theory is that mind and matter are radically interconnected. At the Consciousness Research Laboratory, they ran several experiments to test the prediction that mass consciousness can affect matter. One was where they programmed one or more electronic random number generators to generate 400 random bits (zeros and ones) every six seconds (each group of 400 bits is a sample). Essentially it is similar to flipping a coin 400 times and recording heads or tails that resulted. They wanted to take an event that had a large number of people watching or participating. One of these events picked was the 1995 Academy Awards (over one billion people in 120 countries watched this event). They independently kept minute by minute logs of programs and judged whether they thought each noted event was interesting and likely to attract attention of the viewing audience. They also noted if it was uninteresting and likely to bore the audience (Radin, 160-170). The findings of this study were significant. The devices showed that an increase in order over base line measurements occurred (Graff, 204).

Despite almost 30 years of solid research with significant statistical data, the debate over ESP is still on going. Part of the problem is with "main stream" sciences belief systems. The belief system acts as a filter to what people will or will not accept. It is similar to not being able to find an object you are looking for that is right in front of your face. They will not validate ESP research simply because they do not believe in it. Scientific discoveries usually go in three stages: the first being disbelief and conflict Laws of Science; the second being admitting there is weak evidence therefore it is unimportant; and the final stage is acceptance where the main stream accepts that there is credible evidence. ESP research is now in stage two. Science has now admitted that there is weak evidence that supports the ESP phenomena. This however, is not true: ESP has been proven over and over beyond a reasonable doubt. Statistical analysis has proven that there is concrete evidence that ESP does in fact exist. Just because mainstream scientists will not validate it, does not make the evidence less credible or make the scientists correct. As in the 1400s there was a consensus with scientists that the world was flat and anyone who did not subscribe to this theory was ridiculed much like today with ESP research. As scientists slowly realized that this school of thought was false and that the world is in fact round. One day scientists will realize the validity of ESP research.

http://www.viewzone.com/ESP1.html

Hain · 11-24-2007, 03:16 PM

Go see a mentalist perform, I suggest Christopher Carter, whom is not related to the creator of X-Files, as far as I know. With a simple "Hello, how are you tonight?" dialog with an audience member he told them their full name, some important number to their life, a random fact about them, and even poked fun at a question they were immediately thinking! He did this to forty people, never spending more than 30 seconds with a person. I was even part of the show and I fell for a few of his tricks making me say certain words, verbatim to what he had written down previously before the show. This was perfectly logical, perfectly explainable, but in no way made it less fun....

@Ustwo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Not only are the unborn thinking humans, they can hold up their hand and even know their name!

If we are given to believe that there is something as extraordinary as ESP, then there is no reason not to conclude that there is something akin to a soul, essence, or spirit existing beyond our physical extensions (i.e. our bodies, brains, neurons, chemical reactions, etc), allowing the "soul" of this fetus to know what its physical form does not.

[just pointing out the "what if..." I can't even swallow that explanation]

Personally, there is a great deal of stuff I do not know, and most likely will never know. Believing in something similar to transcendentalism, I believe in connection to all things and that our bodies are just extensions of something further reaching. Given that is how I wish the world would be, I still even have to conclude that this was either coincidental or a prank.

EDIT: You're right Dave, can't find the quote...

DaveOrion · 12-07-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augi

This was perfectly logical, perfectly explainable, but in no way made it less fun like DaveMatrix suggests.

Did I suggest that??? I think a direct quote may be in order............

And BTW, comparing what a stage performer does to actual ESP is ludicrous. Most people with an real gift (or curse) never charge anyone, never announce it to the world, and would certainly never allow themselves to be tested under strict laboratory conditions. Most people would prefer not to be a bacteria under someones microscope.

Ustwo · 12-07-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

Did I suggest that??? I think a direct quote may be in order............

And BTW, comparing what a stage performer does to actual ESP is ludicrous. Most people with an real gift (or curse) never charge anyone, never announce it to the world, and would certainly never allow themselves to be tested under strict laboratory conditions. Most people would prefer not to be a bacteria under someones microscope.

Yea THATS the reason. I mean sure, athletes, geniuses, people with genetic defects, people with unique injuries, people with unusual mutations all have allowed themselves to be examined and tested under laboratory conditions, but no, with ESP there comes a dignity that won't allow such demeaning behavior. They would never use their 'gift' for money, or tell anyone beyond a few select people, of course not.

This is such a wonderful excuse. The reason no one tested has ever shown any real ability is those that have a real ability would never allow testing of course!

jewels · 12-07-2007, 11:06 AM

Maybe the gentleman had learned to utilize the 90% of mental capacity (translation: psychic ability) that most people don't exercise. Sure, we use all of our brains (technically speaking), but that doesn't mean we're all geniuses, or tap into every nook and cranny, does it?

As for the giggle at communication with a fetus, some of us believe there's an energy in all of us -- our bodies are merely shells. Perhaps this psychic ability enabled him to communicate with this baby's "essence".

I'd rather believe in possibilities. Hope and positivity turn me on.

DaveOrion · 12-07-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels443

Maybe the gentleman had learned to utilize the 90% of mental capacity (translation: psychic ability) that most people don't exercise. Sure, we use all of our brains (technically speaking), but that doesn't mean we're all geniuses, or tap into every nook and cranny, does it?

As for the giggle at communication with a fetus, some of us believe there's an energy in all of us -- our bodies are merely shells. Perhaps this psychic ability enabled him to communicate with this baby's "essence".

I'd rather believe in possibilities. Hope and positivity turn me on.

A ray of sunshine in an otherwise dead thread. Thank You jewels....

And thanks to Ustwo for another predictable response.....

lktknow · 12-15-2007, 11:51 AM

I had to tell you, I saw an ad in a throw away paper we get that said...Psychics wanted: will train.
I laughed my head off,,, what??
I will try to locate it and post a picture of it.

ring · 12-20-2007, 04:20 PM

They do not breathe as we do.
That is the reason for what has been labeled 'seizures'

The gift is not easily re-constituted on demand,
you may as well command a butterfly to land on your hand.

10-13-2007, 11:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
lktknow Insane Location: here&there	Preplexed, and seemingly unexplainable Hello everyone, this is my first post here in this forum, and I registered mainly to get opinions on something that happened, that to me is unexplainable. I was at a ribbon store in our area, the store is fairly small, but was extremely crowded on this day. The ribbon is on rolls suspended from the ceiling, and everyone just measures out their own ribbon, and pays up front. The reason I am explaining that, is so you know that the people are in close proximity to one another. To the left of me there was an older gentleman measuring ribbon, when 3 girls walked by us, one of the girls was pregnant, she looked to be in her 20's. The other two girls were in their early teens. When they passed the gentleman, he said to the pregnant one, "your little one just said "Hi, my name is Josephine" to me". One of the younger girls said, "Oh my God, that's what your going to name the baby" . The pregnant one looked at the man, and said, "Excuse me"?..he said, "When you passed by me just now, your little one raised her hand, and said "Hi my name is Josephine" . He turned back and started measuring his ribbon again. The three girls were staring at the man, but then turned and started looking at ribbon. The pregnant ones hands seemed to be shaking as she took the ribbon in them, it sent a chill up my spine. This all happened in a matter of minutes. The pregnant girl was visibly upset, and the three of them turned to leave, but she went to the man, and asked, "Did she say anything else to you?", and he said "no, she just raised her hand to me when you walked past, and said "Hi, my name is Josephine, that's all". and the three girls left. I have only posted this in one other forum, but the responses I received were not too gratifying. Of course, I don't know what it would take to make a response satisfying, but just wanted a bit more input than what I have received so far. Most of the results in the other forum went about explaining how this was very logically explainable. Such as the man had seen the three girls at an earlier time and overheard their conversation, and decided to have some fun with them. Which is a perfectly explainable reason for him knowing the information, but if you had of been there, you would have been able to sense, that it was not true. The man and the girls had never laid eyes on one another. I would like some feedback on what your opinions would be on this situation. I have been lurking here in the forum a while now, and I would value any and all responses, because from what I have read, you all seem to be, not only intelligent, but also broadminded enough to step outside of the box, and offer your opinions

10-13-2007, 11:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	You are correct, this cannot be explained....but, that does not mean its not real. Hell, I burned myself last week on flame, and no one fully understands it yet I will tell you right now....it's real. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

10-13-2007, 11:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	I don't discount anything. We only use a small portion of our mind. The other portion that most people don't use is unknown. Who's to say that this guy doesn't have psychic tendencies? People see auras. People predict the future. People have previous lives that they can recall memories from. Why can't this guy have a greeting from a fetus? It would definitely disturb me to hear that. It's very random. The cynical part of me was thinking what yo posted about the logical explanation. He may be a lonely, strange old man that overheard a conversation and wanted to have some fun. People believe what they want to believe. Only he knows for sure what happened. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

10-13-2007, 06:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	Even accepting that the gentleman is psychic, his exchange with the fetus is way, way out there. That simple greeting implies the fetus has an understanding of lanuguage, self, gender identity (to accept the mother's girl name choice), social ettiquette, a fully formed outgoing personality, trust in strangers and to top it all off, a psychic connection with the Mother not to mention an ability to recognize and comprehend the external man and his thoughts. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

10-15-2007, 04:20 AM	#13 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	There's a reason that most illusionists are confirmed skeptics. Guys like James Randi, Criss Angel and going back to Harry Houdini are all able to do things that, to an uninformed observer seem completely unexplainable. And there's always a rational explanation, even if the observer never knows what it is. The rational explanations are boring, because they attribute everything to the mundane. They're also always right. Having dabbled in mentalism myself, I've seen that 'how the fuck did you do/know that?; look, and it can be quite powerful (as well as a great way to pick up, but that's beside the point). The technical term for what is most probably going on here is what's referred to as a hot reading. This is in contrast to the much more common cold reading; hot readings are harder to do, because they require some foreknowledge on the mark. All the same, it's not difficult to imagine that this gent overheard this expectant mother speaking with one of her other daughters out on the street and followed them into the store specifically to have a bit of a game and get that reaction. That said, believe whatever makes you happiest. You're never going to get a complete answer short of tracking the old guy down and that seems a bit extreme. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

10-13-2007, 02:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	That the overheard them and decided to fuck with them is a lot more believable than the idea that he actually communicated with an in utero child.

10-13-2007, 02:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
analog Banned	That's incredible! You mean to tell me there's a store that just sells ribbons? But seriously... when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation- and not just reasonable, but downright likely- I will take that over a physically impossible and improbable/unproven psychological phenomenon like telepathy.

10-13-2007, 11:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
lktknow Insane Location: here&there	I truly appreciate all the responses. Albania was right when they said no one would be able to give me a satisfactory answer, and I more or less knew that going in, I just wanted honest opinions on what you all would think of the possibility of it truly happening. But in the end, I will have to make of it what I will, like they said. I liked what Ustwo said about "Excellent, YOU are psychic too", very apropos. I am also in agreement with the majority of the responses, as far as the guy possibly overhearing the information at an earlier time, even though I "felt" as if they had never laid eyes on one another. I think it was because of the complete nonchalance of the guy who said it, and he resembled nothing like what you would expect a jokester to look like. (course, what does a practical joker look like?) He was a man in his late 50's early 60's, and from my brief encounter , he just seemed rather serene, or?? Right before the three girls came in, he had asked to borrow my pen to write his ribbon lengths down. We didn't speak, I just handed him the pen, and he thanked me, and gave it back when he was done. When all is said and done about this subject, it seems like fresnelly hit the nail on the head, and it seems a person with any common sense would logic it out the way they explained it, and realize , it just couldn't happen. I think it was analog that said "when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, and not just reasonable but downright likely- I will take that over a physically impossible and improbable/unproven psychological phenomenon like telepathy." again, thank you for the input. marlene

10-15-2007, 01:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Of course if you can speak to the unborn this will REALLY screw up the pro-abortion crowd Not only are the unborn thinking humans, they can hold up their hand and even know their name! __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-15-2007, 02:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	Hmm. But at the same time... sometimes people are predictable. We were walking along one day and went past some young teenage girls who'd obviously drunk more coffee than was good for them. They were chattering wildly. I turned to my parter and whispered 'oh my god', in the melodramatic American sitcom fashion. A half-second later... a loud "Oh... my.... god...." was heard from the girls we'd passed. So I'd managed to predict their next statement : >

11-01-2007, 06:33 PM	#25 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	*dons big Jamaican hair wig* CALL ME NOW! ... Only ESP we might have consists of "gaydar" and the "bullshit detector." __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

12-07-2007, 11:06 AM	#36 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	Maybe the gentleman had learned to utilize the 90% of mental capacity (translation: psychic ability) that most people don't exercise. Sure, we use all of our brains (technically speaking), but that doesn't mean we're all geniuses, or tap into every nook and cranny, does it? As for the giggle at communication with a fetus, some of us believe there's an energy in all of us -- our bodies are merely shells. Perhaps this psychic ability enabled him to communicate with this baby's "essence". I'd rather believe in possibilities. Hope and positivity turn me on. Last edited by jewels; 12-07-2007 at 11:13 AM..

12-15-2007, 11:51 AM	#38 (permalink)
lktknow Insane Location: here&there	funny I had to tell you, I saw an ad in a throw away paper we get that said...Psychics wanted: will train. I laughed my head off,,, what?? I will try to locate it and post a picture of it. __________________ Never give up on something that you can’t go a day without thinking about. ~

12-20-2007, 04:20 PM	#39 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	They do not breathe as we do. That is the reason for what has been labeled 'seizures' The gift is not easily re-constituted on demand, you may as well command a butterfly to land on your hand.