ok, with all the metal threads i think i need a clarification

[skinnymofo]

can someone please explain to me the differences between all these different kinds of metal?
metal to me is just really loud and fast hard rock with screaming. am i off in that?
is it the lyrics? how terrible and mean you can make yourself sound that classifys you into the sub genre of the sub genre?
and one final question to those that are into the screaming while growling your voice into something you cant understand. Do you guys tone out the sing...screaming guy and just get into the killer riffs and beats or is it un metal to say, sing along or follow along with the words.
i enjoy some of the stuff but i can never get past the singers its just too annoying to me.

[blitz.fenix]

I'm not really an expert because I myself have trouble distinguishing the different types.

I know that the main categories are:

Black Metal
Death Metal
Thrash Metal
Doom Metal

I don't really like the vocals of most bands in Death Metal but there are some that are tolerable such as Dimmu Borgir and At The Gates.

Now more instrumental type of stuff is Black Metal. I think. Using Dimmu Borgir as an example again it can be classified as Black Metal as well.

Thrash Metal is something like Slayer with really driving fast rythyms.

Doom Metal is really sorrowful and makes you feel emotions. A good example is My Dying Bride and Dargaard(No guitars but ambiance type music made by a metal guy)

Well I hope someone with more knowledge comes here to clear some things up, because when I asked one of my hardcore metal friends she said it was hard to explain as well.

[Suave]

Black metal - dark and instrumental.

Death metal - they really love the whole deep, guttural, I-think-my-larynx-is-destroying-itself kind of singing. Also dark.

Thrash metal - fast, dark metal.

Doom metal - uh, dark and sorrowful?

I personally prefer to avoid any metal that has a prefix, as they all seem to involve the whole "dark" adjective, and in my opinion, could also include "crappy" and "depressing". And it's not like I haven't given it a chance. I've been exposed to TONS of it thanks to some of my highschool friends as well as some of my co-workers.

[K-Wise]

Yeah I can't really get into the guys that scream their lyrics to the point where you can't understand a word they're saying...I like very few bands who do that. Especially the ones who's singers actually have a great tone and quality to their normal singing voice yet feel the need to scream things you can hardly understand. I don't equate screaming your lungs out with grotesque lyrics of a morbid or satanic nature and tuning your guitars so low it's almost no longer musical with my definition of heavy metal...to me heavy is Led Zepplin...heavy is Rush 2112 Overture...shit like that. It's the emotion of your voice and playing that makes it heavy not screaming nasty things and playing as fast as you can....David Gilmour is heavier than any single one of these metal bands even when he's writing spiritual stuff. Some people love it though...to each his own.

Asta!!

[n0nsensical]

Well it's all really subjective, and many an internet flame war has been waged over the genre of a band. It's a fine line between some of them and everyone seems to have their own definition. So with tongue partially in cheek, I will explain what I've come up with.

Death metal bands always have names relating to corpses, body parts, death, etc., like Cannibal Corpse, Cattle Decapitation, Napalm Death...if the name sounds scary and funny at the same time, it's probably a death band. They have the usual screaming unintelligible vocals and a musical focus on being loud.

Doom metal vocals tend to be more raspy than the screaming of death metal. Also characterized by slower rhythms and minor keys. I'm not too familiar specific bands of this genre.

Goth metal is related to doom metal. Often involves anti-Christian lyrics and the other usual things you might associate with goth culture. Tristania and Sins of Thy Beloved can be characterized as goth metal.

Progressive metal is what you get when you take 70s prog rock bands like Rush and Yes and add a generous helping of metal. Usually have very complex songs, multiple time signatures, crazy solos, all that good stuff. Lots of musical virtuosity. Most MTV viewers can't process so much musical ability at once. The vocals are normal singing, and the vocalists tend to have very large ranges focusing on the higher end. Dream Theater is always the archetypical example, Symphony X and Fates Warning are also other examples.

Power metal, you could say, is an evolution of 80s metal bands like Iron Maiden. It usually has infectious melodies, and compared to the dark subjects of death and doom metal, power metal is usually much more cheerful and uplifting. Stratovarius, Hammerfall, Rhapsody, and Sonata Arctica are good examples. Vocals are clean and on the high end like prog metal. Fantasy is common subject matter: Dragons, Kings, and Elves all have their parts in power metal, and these bands are known to make songs about J.R.R. Tolkien books (and even whole albums, like in the case of Blind Guardian's Nightfall in Middle-Earth). It's obscure in North America even for metal, far more popular in Europe and South America, and most of the well-known bands are European.

Melodic death metal is a subgenre also related to power metal, the music usually is (surprise) more melodic and the vocals more intelligible, but still in the "death" style. Examples are In Flames, Opeth, and Children of Bodom. Like power metal, it's more popular in Europe, but it does have its following here.

[Phantom Lord]

Originally Posted by skinnymofo

and one final question to those that are into the screaming while growling your voice into something you cant understand. Do you guys tone out the sing...screaming guy and just get into the killer riffs and beats or is it un metal to say, sing along or follow along with the words.

Is that sarcasm??? a little more of respect will be good.

Originally Posted by Suave

Black metal - dark and instrumental.

Death metal - they really love the whole deep, guttural, I-think-my-larynx-is-destroying-itself kind of singing. Also dark.

Thrash metal - fast, dark metal.

Doom metal - uh, dark and sorrowful?

I personally prefer to avoid any metal that has a prefix, as they all seem to involve the whole "dark" adjective, and in my opinion, could also include "crappy" and "depressing". And it's not like I haven't given it a chance. I've been exposed to TONS of it thanks to some of my highschool friends as well as some of my co-workers.

Death metal I-think-my-larynx-is-destroying-itself kind of singing?

Is that your definition? if u are going to emit one opinion you better get informated first. Have u ever heard Chuck Schuldiner? Angela Gossow? the voice in death metal is only a part of the message of agression that the music try to give.

Thrash metal is the evolution of heavy metal to more rapid riffs and solos, instrumentalism is reached to another level.

Originally Posted by K-Wise

Yeah I can't really get into the guys that scream their lyrics to the point where you can't understand a word they're saying...I like very few bands who do that. Especially the ones who's singers actually have a great tone and quality to their normal singing voice yet feel the need to scream things you can hardly understand. I don't equate screaming your lungs out with grotesque lyrics of a morbid or satanic nature and tuning your guitars so low it's almost no longer musical with my definition of heavy metal...to me heavy is Led Zepplin...heavy is Rush 2112 Overture...shit like that. It's the emotion of your voice and playing that makes it heavy not screaming nasty things and playing as fast as you can....David Gilmour is heavier than any single one of these metal bands even when he's writing spiritual stuff. Some people love it though...to each his own.

Asta!!

I repeat it again, voice in death metal is only a part of the agression message. It seems that you dont hear Dark Tranquility or Death in his last times. They sing far better that the groups that you mention.

Well as you say to each his own.

Originally Posted by n0nsensical

Well it's all really subjective, and many an internet flame war has been waged over the genre of a band. It's a fine line between some of them and everyone seems to have their own definition. So with tongue partially in cheek, I will explain what I've come up with.

Death metal bands always have names relating to corpses, body parts, death, etc., like Cannibal Corpse, Cattle Decapitation, Napalm Death...if the name sounds scary and funny at the same time, it's probably a death band. They have the usual screaming unintelligible vocals and a musical focus on being loud.

Doom metal vocals tend to be more raspy than the screaming of death metal. Also characterized by slower rhythms and minor keys. I'm not too familiar specific bands of this genre.

Goth metal is related to doom metal. Often involves anti-Christian lyrics and the other usual things you might associate with goth culture. Tristania and Sins of Thy Beloved can be characterized as goth metal.

Progressive metal is what you get when you take 70s prog rock bands like Rush and Yes and add a generous helping of metal. Usually have very complex songs, multiple time signatures, crazy solos, all that good stuff. Lots of musical virtuosity. Most MTV viewers can't process so much musical ability at once. The vocals are normal singing, and the vocalists tend to have very large ranges focusing on the higher end. Dream Theater is always the archetypical example, Symphony X and Fates Warning are also other examples.

Power metal, you could say, is an evolution of 80s metal bands like Iron Maiden. It usually has infectious melodies, and compared to the dark subjects of death and doom metal, power metal is usually much more cheerful and uplifting. Stratovarius, Hammerfall, Rhapsody, and Sonata Arctica are good examples. Vocals are clean and on the high end like prog metal. Fantasy is common subject matter: Dragons, Kings, and Elves all have their parts in power metal, and these bands are known to make songs about J.R.R. Tolkien books (and even whole albums, like in the case of Blind Guardian's Nightfall in Middle-Earth). It's obscure in North America even for metal, far more popular in Europe and South America, and most of the well-known bands are European.

Melodic death metal is a subgenre also related to power metal, the music usually is (surprise) more melodic and the vocals more intelligible, but still in the "death" style. Examples are In Flames, Opeth, and Children of Bodom. Like power metal, it's more popular in Europe, but it does have its following here.

Death metal has evolved from grindcore a genre that have a great love for gore. But Groups like death, dark tranquility, atheist, cynic, have lyrics that involve all kind of themes.

Goth metal anti christian??? that is Black Metal, read "Lords of Chaos" for more examples. Tristania is power, and power metal (stratovarius, sonata artica, nightwish, etc.) its no metal (sounds funny i know) And btw Power its evolution not of Iron Maiden but of a legendary band : Helloween.

Melodic Death a subgenre of power???? ..... no comments.
Hammerfall is Speed Heavy metal.

in all matter of cases the only thing i care if its metal or no.

[Pacifier]

Like someone said the geners are often subject of big flame wars
but you can find not too bad list (and more information on some genres) in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres

[Lak]

Originally Posted by n0nsensical

Death metal bands always have names relating to corpses, body parts, death, etc., like Cannibal Corpse, Cattle Decapitation, Napalm Death...if the name sounds scary and funny at the same time, it's probably a death band. They have the usual screaming unintelligible vocals and a musical focus on being loud.

My friends and I have endless fun making up stupid names for (so called) death metal bands. So imagine our mirth when we found Violated Rot, and website featuring a comprehensive list of many death metal bands with some album reviews to boot.
Some of my personal favourites were
- Circle of Dead Children
- Putrid Pile
- Vaginal Carnage

The list goes on and on. I look at them (midst snorting my drink onto my desk) and think these people can't POSSIBLY take themselves seriously.

A few choice tracks from a recent release of on of the more well-known groups, Gorerotted are
"Her limbs wouldn't fit in the fridge"
"Hacked in the back and stuffed in a sack"
and
"Zombie Graveyard Rape Bonanza"

*wipes tears from eyes* I mean seriously, they must be taking the piss. Right?

Right?

[Phantom Lord]

[saut]

I'm not really that much into metal, especially with growled vocals, but Opeth is one of the best bands I've ever heard. The growling and heavy riffs are always contrasted by some nimble acoustic (or melodic electric) sections and incredible clean vocals. For some examples of this, check out the songs Godhead's Lament, Moonlapse Vertigo, and The Drapery Falls. Make sure you listen to the whole thing, though, and with an open ear.

If you like the softer sections of the songs, but hate the hard/growling parts, check out their album, "Damnation," which is comprised entirely of acoustic and melodic songs with no growling.

[Bacchanal]

Originally Posted by Lak

- Circle of Dead Children

Believe it or not, they're actually a really good band, but definitely an acquired taste. Alot of people who like "metal" wouldn't like them, but they're definitely original if nothing else. Plus, the lead singer can do amazing things with his voice.

Getting back on topic, I listen to quite a bit of "metal" from just about every genre, sub-genre, whatever... but I dont bother with labels. If I like it, I honestly couldn't care what genre it's considered. Sorry I didn't offer much help, but I think n0nsensical got it right for the most part.

[K-Wise]

Originally Posted by Phantom Lord

I repeat it again, voice in death metal is only a part of the agression message. It seems that you dont hear Dark Tranquility or Death in his last times. They sing far better that the groups that you mention.

Well as you say to each his own.

Don't take offense...I never singled out any band, gave any names or anything I just described a typical type of band that many people associate with that of "heavy metal" or "metal" so to speak. I didn't name any bands that sound like that cause when I hear them I never even bother to remember their name. Yer kidding yourself if you think there aren't any bands like the ones I'm describing..I know I've heard them. You don't have to scream low, and raspy and go grrr to show aggression...screaming is fine but at least make it understandable. I mean I'd hate to think that these people just can't sing normally and have to scream like that because they can do nothing else...I'm sure thats just not the case. I've never heard the bands you speak of mainly because everytime I try to watch a metal program 90% of it is the guys I'm talking about and I can't listen to it long enough to see if it truely does have any musical qualities. And a lot of these guys don't necessarily sound angry either they sound like they're trying to sound angry but there isn't really any anger in their voice. Hearing Zack De la Rocha screaming "FREEDOM!" now THATS angry...hearing David Gilmour play his guitar solo on "Sorrow" THATS heavy, emotional, and angry. I'm sure the guys you listed can sing much better than the likes of Robert Plant and Geddy Lee...if they don't scream like I described then I'd love to hear them and I'd like to know where I could hear them...I can always appreciate a good voice of any style but most of these guys you can't tell one from the other..and not in an acceptable way. Roger Glover of Deep Purple described it pretty well when he said "I always thought heavy meant playing the same stuff but louder...and then I saw Led Zepplin and it was then I realized heavy is not a sound...heavy is an attitude." No offense...I'm just sure you'd like a reasonable explanation as to why some people like me just don't care for most of it.

Asta!!

[krwlz]

Wether I agree or not, K-wise, that was very well put. Thank you.
I cant stand the unintelligable (sp??) growling into the microphone that a lot of singers do, but hey, its thier music.

That said, I enjoy slayer very very much. I am willing to bet a lot people out there think Tom Araya ought to get grouped into the unintelligable lyrics catagory.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Phantom Lord

Death metal I-think-my-larynx-is-destroying-itself kind of singing?

Is that your definition? if u are going to emit one opinion you better get informated first. Have u ever heard Chuck Schuldiner? Angela Gossow? the voice in death metal is only a part of the message of agression that the music try to give.

Evidently, it is my definition, as that is what I wrote. That's how I know death metal, and until I hear death metal that doesn't have a "singer" using guttural, raspy vocals, I shall continue to define it as such. I don't discuss metal much with anyone, so don't worry about me poisoning anyone's mind. :P

[n0nsensical]

Originally Posted by Phantom Lord

Is that sarcasm??? a little more of respect will be good.



Death metal I-think-my-larynx-is-destroying-itself kind of singing?

Is that your definition? if u are going to emit one opinion you better get informated first. Have u ever heard Chuck Schuldiner? Angela Gossow? the voice in death metal is only a part of the message of agression that the music try to give.

Thrash metal is the evolution of heavy metal to more rapid riffs and solos, instrumentalism is reached to another level.



I repeat it again, voice in death metal is only a part of the agression message. It seems that you dont hear Dark Tranquility or Death in his last times. They sing far better that the groups that you mention.

Well as you say to each his own.



Death metal has evolved from grindcore a genre that have a great love for gore. But Groups like death, dark tranquility, atheist, cynic, have lyrics that involve all kind of themes.

Goth metal anti christian??? that is Black Metal, read "Lords of Chaos" for more examples. Tristania is power, and power metal (stratovarius, sonata artica, nightwish, etc.) its no metal (sounds funny i know) And btw Power its evolution not of Iron Maiden but of a legendary band : Helloween.

Melodic Death a subgenre of power???? ..... no comments.
Hammerfall is Speed Heavy metal.

in all matter of cases the only thing i care if its metal or no.

This is what I mean, people always have different definitions, and anyone else's definitions are automatically wrong to them. For some reason the metal genre elitists always hate power metal too. You can't define the lines between genres so strongly, like "black metal is always anti-christian, but goth metal never is". I didn't say melodic death is a subgenre of power, I said it's related to power. And I think you'd have to be deaf not to hear a relation. I don't see how you get power metal out of Tristania either. I'd say Helloween is an evolution of early Iron Maiden too. I was just using it as an example anyway. If Hammerfall's Glory to the Brave isn't power metal I don't know what is. That really sounds all that different from Stratovarius? I must be listening to something else. I should know better not to get involved in music discussions and particularly not in genre discussions, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

[K-Wise]

I've heard a few who kinda mix & mash among the sub-genre's of metal. Maybe System Of A Down might be a good example..they sing about all kinds of stuff and are still pretty metal to me cept you can't pin them down to one specific type.

Asta!!

[mercury-hg]

firstly, i love metal. secondly, i love melody. i think some of you guys may find these two statements mutually exclusive, but they're not at all.

in many years of talkin about music, i've noticed that lots of people will say "i love this song" or "i love this melody" and then cite lyrics as an example. i've always thought those people were a bit confused. sounds more like they are into the lyrics, not just the melody. if i like a song, i'd like it sung in a different language as well, because i consider a voice first and foremost to be an instrument. more power to you if you like to contemplate the lyrical content of songs, but that's not the reason i listen to music.

metal often moves the main melodic lines of a song from the vocals to guitar. the melody is still there, it just might not be where you expect it. granted, in some songs the melody is buried deeper than in others. in Blood Has Been Shed's "Spirals", there's virtually nothing melodic in the first 3 tracks of the album, but when Howard Jones quits screaming and "sings" in the 4th track, the melody hits HARD because of the juxtaposition with chaos that preceeds it. i feel the growling/screaming/whatever-you-want-to-call-it vocals add percussive and textural elements to a song. yeah, it's not melodic, but it DOES serve a purpose.

[Phantom Lord]

It seems that more of you have dont understand me.
If u are saying that u havent listen so much death metal bands, how can you define death metal???
Maybe for some people screaming and making gutural voice its not agressive but for music it is. You say that Led Zeppelin and other persons are heavy because they put feeling in their songs, u ar right, but remember that feeling is a relative thing to each one. Hear Old Metallica, Death (last days), Helloween, Overkill, (old) Anthrax, Sodom, Overkill. His voices are not gutural but are agressives, u feel the agression, the rage, or whatever its trying to comunnicate to the person is listen.
I dont know what programs of metal have u listen but gutural voice is not the only thing in metal, in early death metal agression was ALL. even now the "old school death metal" is pure agression, they have no great technique and have no raw production. His words say it all "Brutality comes throught simplicity"

And sistem of a down its not metal

[Lak]

Originally Posted by Bacchanal

Believe it or not, they're actually a really good band, but definitely an acquired taste. Alot of people who like "metal" wouldn't like them, but they're definitely original if nothing else. Plus, the lead singer can do amazing things with his voice.

Oh for sure, I'm not saying anything about the musical style, hell I even enjoy a little myself. It just... the names. Awesome.

[krwlz]

Originally Posted by Phantom Lord

It seems that more of you have dont understand me.
If u are saying that u havent listen so much death metal bands, how can you define death metal???
Maybe for some people screaming and making gutural voice its not agressive but for music it is. You say that Led Zeppelin and other persons are heavy because they put feeling in their songs, u ar right, but remember that feeling is a relative thing to each one. Hear Old Metallica, Death (last days), Helloween, Overkill, (old) Anthrax, Sodom, Overkill. His voices are not gutural but are agressives, u feel the agression, the rage, or whatever its trying to comunnicate to the person is listen.
I dont know what programs of metal have u listen but gutural voice is not the only thing in metal, in early death metal agression was ALL. even now the "old school death metal" is pure agression, they have no great technique and have no raw production. His words say it all "Brutality comes throught simplicity"

And sistem of a down its not metal

Haha, Dude get over yourself, your definitions of genres are not mutually exclusive to everyone elses. You can have your opinion, and let other people have theirs at the same time. Even if you disagree!

It is an amazing thing I know, and perhaps difficult to comprehend at first, but it can happen!

Haha, cmon man, we are all friends here!! And we all just want to listen to the music we like!

[Frosstbyte]

Originally Posted by Pacifier

Like someone said the geners are often subject of big flame wars
but you can find not too bad list (and more information on some genres) in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres

Wow. I've found my Christmas list.

Dear Santa,

Click on power metal and buy me the discographies of the listed bands. Thanks!

\m/,

Dan

[Aborted]

Pigeon holing should function only as a vague description aimed at those who may not have heard the music of a particular band, and I don't understand how it degenerated into an excercise in musical muscle flexing. Personally, I couldn't care less if Dark Tranquility "sold out" because they grew out of Black metal, or if Testament's later albums focus more on death metal than thrash, or if Hatebreed aren't "real" hardcore because their punk influences aren't clearly audible, or if Immortal's last album doesn't qualify as black metal because it has production, and I tend to switch off when people start spouting this rubbish as though it were new. It's all been said before, so what makes people think their particular wording will rekindle interest in over-milked, mundane topics?

Music is music, if you like it you like it and if you don't you dont. Why do such simple concepts always conflict? Why is it that when it comes to music, otherwise decent people suddenly start stating their opinions as if they were facts and refuse to listen to anything to the contrary? It's extraordinary and confusing in equal measures.

[Zephyr66]

Originally Posted by Aborted

Music is music, if you like it you like it and if you don't you dont. Why do such simple concepts always conflict? Why is it that when it comes to music, otherwise decent people suddenly start stating their opinions as if they were facts and refuse to listen to anything to the contrary? It's extraordinary and confusing in equal measures.

amen to that

[krwlz]

Originally Posted by Aborted

Pigeon holing should function only as a vague description aimed at those who may not have heard the music of a particular band, and I don't understand how it degenerated into an excercise in musical muscle flexing. Personally, I couldn't care less if Dark Tranquility "sold out" because they grew out of Black metal, or if Testament's later albums focus more on death metal than thrash, or if Hatebreed aren't "real" hardcore because their punk influences aren't clearly audible, or if Immortal's last album doesn't qualify as black metal because it has production, and I tend to switch off when people start spouting this rubbish as though it were new. It's all been said before, so what makes people think their particular wording will rekindle interest in over-milked, mundane topics?

Music is music, if you like it you like it and if you don't you dont. Why do such simple concepts always conflict? Why is it that when it comes to music, otherwise decent people suddenly start stating their opinions as if they were facts and refuse to listen to anything to the contrary? It's extraordinary and confusing in equal measures.

Yea! What he said!
Haha, Thats the idea I was trying to convey I think. I just didnt pull it off nearly as well.

[K-Wise]

And sistem of a down its not metal

Have you listened to all of their albums all the way through? Listen to Sugar and tell me what you think that is cause it sounds like metal to me. I'm a little ignorant to the universal defintions of what constitute the ya know "metal" sound. Their debut self-titled album is full of pretty heavy stuff..comical at times but heavy none the less...anyways you never told me if there was a place I can listen to those guys you mentioned...Eh if I say it's not my thing don't think it's cause I think it's bad cause if I do I'll say so ya know but if I say it's not my thing it's because it's views probably don't agree with my own personal beliefs not that I think it's bad...I think Trent Reznor and Marlyn Manson are both really talented just I don't always agree with their views and it's not really my thing...eh...yeah

Asta!!

[Frosstbyte]

As far as I know, System of a Down is usually grouped in with rapcore or whatever the cool kids are calling the rap/metal synthesis these days. They would be with the likes of Linkin' Park, Korn, Limp Bizkit, etc.

Edit: Wikipedia groups SoaD in "alternative metal" which is an eclectic group containing Tool, Rage and Faith No More. I don't really know how I feel about that, but take it as you will.

[K-Wise]

See thats funny cause they don't rap...at all...I can't think of one song where they have so rap/metal, rapcore is completely wrong..I'll except nu-metal..thats what they called Korn when they came out. "Alternative metal"...yeah I can see that...since it isn't always metal...I suppose ya couldn't get to a closer description without pissing off all the metalheads.

Asta!!

[skinnymofo]

system just need a genre of their own, lets just call it
the awesome genre
unlike most bands now a days and very few in the past, no one will ever sound like them again and thats a cool title to have i think.
and btw thanks for the replies and keeping it suprisingly civil

[K-Wise]

Yeah I definitely gotta agree with you on System..they definitely have their own unique sound...much like Janes Addiction and Red Hot Chilli Peppers and I'll even admitt Linkin Park too ya know no one sounds like any of them at all...I don't think anyone would or should dare try to.

Asta!!

[roderickpsu]

There should be a website dedicated to explaining this...with some audio examples.

[K-Wise]

^ Someones gonna make good money outta that. If it hasn't already happened get a patent for it.

Asta!!