Magpie0001

Ok,
1st. Do you know what a Dj actually does?
2nd. Do you consider a Dj a musician?
3rd. Do you know what a turntablist does?
4th. Do you consider a turntablist a musician?
5th. Whats your favourite color?
6th. How many fingers am I holding up?

Thanks y'all.

KWSN

A TURNTABLIST is DEFINETLY a musician. Scratching is a lot harder than people give it credit for. It's even harder to make is sound better. But a party DJ who just plays music and does nothing else? No, that's not a musician, that's an entertainer. There is a difference.

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IC3

A Turntablist not only scratches, But continuously mixes the tracks together to give you a Non stop flow of Beats...You have to have talent to catch beats and keep them in flow together.

I know a few DJ's that spin House, Trance, Jungle, Breaks...And they have talent.

Magpie0001

But are they musicians?

BastardSamurai

For every ten hacks who just crossfades some MP3s, there's a quality musician like DJ Shadow. Like most other things, a lot are pure shite, but there're some exceptional artists out there.

IC3

I think so

cody

Magpie0001

What do you spin?
How long have you been at it?
Why dont you scratch?
Coke or Pepsi?
When did you last cut your toenails?

cody

Magpie0001

Vestax or Technics?
What mixer?
Ever used 3 decks? 4?
Do you remember Altern-8?
What do you want to be when you grow up?
Why am i asking all the Qs?

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cody

Magpie0001

Dude, buy Vestax! Whats wrong with you? What the fuck?
TT - XP??? Who the fuck is Numark? Repeat after me "Ves - tax" good.
Seriously though, I do know what Numark is but really dont bother your ass with that (see above).
Im asking coz Im a turntablist.
OOh yeah, some Q's:

How long have U been at it?
Influences?
Interested in you?
Are you trying to make me laugh?

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cody

As for the Numark vs. Vestax vs. Technics vs. the world thing. I've played on vestax tables a few times and I like them, I've played on 1200's a million times and they're pretty nice too. The tables I have now rank up there with the 1200's torque-wise and they're 3 years old, plus they have a few more features to play with(+/-20, Foward and Reverse at 33, 45, and 78.). But the new Numarks blow away anything I've ever touched. from stop to full speed in less than a 1/4 of a rotation, it reverses on beat, more torque than any other table out there. If you have a Sam Ash or Guitar Center around where you live you should go down and check them out, especially since you're a turntablist. You'd be suprised by the torque they have.

Magpie0001

Sam Ash? or a what? Dude, Im not in the same continent as you. we dont have any Ash Centres here!!

Far as I know Vestax PDX2000 have the most torque on the market today, I could be wrong.
Also:
+/- 60 (more than any TT)
Reverse (on a beat)
Same startup & break - less than a quarter turn.
Variable startup & break.
No Zero pitch dent.
ASTS tonearm (more for scratching)
Feedback reduction - Next time you get infront of a set of these take a look underneath, The thickness of the plastic is fucking mental! & its all one piece (less vibrations) & its high density fangled for your feedback reduction -ness.
Still not convinced?

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dopeman

1st. Do you actually know what a Dj actually does?
A Disc Jockey jockey's disks, and do exactly that.

2nd. Do you consider a Dj a musician?
Yes and no. A musician is one who makes music, but if you consider the mixing of numerous songs mixed together as a giant song (set if you will), then they can be referred to as musicians. Kind of like a composer.

3rd. Do you know what a turntablist does?
Yes. They work the tables like none other. Beat juggling, and scratching is basically what it comes down to. Creative mixing of songs, with scratches, etc. Tricks are fun to watch (one hand under your leg crabbing the cross fader / scratching with the NEEDLE only) but i don't believe they are necessary. Nobody see's your tricks when they listen to your mix.

4th. Do you consider a turntablist a musician?
Definately. Using the tables as an instrument -making sound that is not already embedded into something.

5th. Whats your favourite color?
Blue of sorts.

6th. How many fingers am I holding up?
If you're typing.. maybe one. I tend to not use my right hand pinky. Maybe thats the one.

cody

I found the specs for the two tables, and yes, they are pretty similar, but $100 less I'm gonna have to go with the numarks, unless I could find the vestax tables cheaper on ebay.

Numark TTX-1 Specs (source)
Starting Torque: 2.8 kg/cm
Start Time: 0-33.3RPM in 0.25 secs
Rumble(Vibration) : -79dB Weighted(IEC 98 Weighted)
Speeds: 33.3, 45 &78 RPM
Pitch Range: +/- 8, 10, 20, 50%

Vestax PDX2000 Specs (source)
Starting torque: 2.0kg/cm
Start up time: 0.5 sec (33 1/2rpm)
Rumble: -78dB (IEC 98 WTD)
Speed: 33 1/2 rpm, 45 rpm
Fine pitch: +/-10% (100mmfader)
Ultra pitch: +/-50% (45mm fader)

Like I said, they're both pretty good tables, but Numark has yet to do me wrong. The difference in the majority of the specs is minimal, but the price difference isn't, and thats what gets me.

Magpie0001

You got me.
Convinving numbers.
Kudos, Kudos to you.

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deaby

kid 606 = musician
dj shadow = musician
2 many dj's (soulwax) = musician
DJ Premier = musician
Paul Oakenfold = not a musician

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Magpie0001

Ha - Ha

Atomic Pinkie

i personally enjoy the sounds of Aphex Twin...god of the mix and match

If you don't believe me....Speed Racer, Popcorn, Bucceaplojdfljef(spelling i don't know) bouncing ball...

who do you know could make a damn good song out of a single noise?

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Where dem bitches at?

Magpie0001

Aphex Is a musician, no Q,
He has invented his own instruments! How fucked up is that?
But he naint a Dj or a Turntablist.

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Atomic Pinkie

what is he then...mixer? i dunno, i don't listen to much besides him...cause he's the god of it all in my books, i haven't heard anything better

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Where dem bitches at?

Magpie0001

Methinks he's a musician.
BUCEPHALUS.

Its true though, Richard D James is the fucking king.

apetaster

Do you consider persons who use Bryce to make neat pictures of floating orbs in front of mountainous lakes and lens flares galore artists? I don't, because I can do it.

IMO there are two definitions of DJ - one who creates content by rejiggering others' music or making their own.

The other is a guy who spins CDs at bars, weddings and company functions and believes that "large and in charge" tee shirts are a good idea.

Magpie0001

Hehehe thats great.

zfleebin

Im sorry but I had to get into the technic vestax numark war. Vestax burn out real quick Numark are innovative just like Vestax but neither get their products reliability anywhere near a technic. Technics are the standard and I have only been to a couple parties where they used vestax turntables. Vestax mixers on the other hand are the only way to go. Other than that I think djing is a talent whether you scratch or not but people need to recognize that without scratching or continous chopping you are just "playing other peoples records." Scratching is my form of expression and allows me to play with the rhythm instead of just adding to it. when it really comes down to it though the only real way to take techno to the next level is to make it. Thats why I run the mc505, EMU xl7, JP8000, and rebirth.record spinning is fun but controlling the music takes the party to the next level. and sequencing allows for more room for the scratch while filters screw your head up.

Lebell

eh hem.

Anyway back to the original question, imo, NO.

A musician creates music. A DJ doesn't. They may be a very talented artist, worthy of praise in their own right, but they are not musicians to me. Eric Clapton, Yoyo Ma, Dizzy Gilespie, and Paul Winter, those are musicians.

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zfleebin

Lebel: what do you think of drummers and bassists?

PulpMind

to reiterate a point...
A DJ is not a musician... a DJ plays music. they Jockey Discs... doing it successfully is just as hard, and sometimes harder, than what many musicians / bands do, and that deserves a huge amount of respect that real DJs don't get from the general music community. But they still don't fit the deffinition of "musician."
And although some musicians people might use the moniker (sp?) of "DJ" broadly, they are not truely a DJ, but instead a producer (sometimes aka a turntablist). DJ Shadow, DJ Q-bert, etc are essentially producers, regardless of weather they spend hours editing sounds in the studio, or can create a fresh sound on the fly.

yup.

Lebell

Paul McCartney, Mickey Hart and Tito Fuentes are muscians to me. A person that mixes existing music, no matter how skillfully is not a musician in my mind.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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3x0

1st. YES
2nd. YES
3rd. YES
4th. YES
5th. RED
6th. 21 ?

Ganguro

I'll be glad when the postcount whoring is over



That being said . on to my answer.

After some great thought on the subject, I would say that a DJ is not a musician, but more of a performance artist. That doesnt mean they aren't as talented as some smuck who has a catchy beat in their head and can strum a guitar. Many great "DJ"'s can also play musical instuments, but their preference just happends to be a turntable, or soundboard, or sequencer. Nothing wrong with that.

Magpie0001

Erm, I have been honourably proved wrong in this thread allready (thanks cody!) & I dont wanna start the eternal Dj argument...

But,
Technics could easily be described as fucking vicious well wicked tables, they helped start this Dj'n thing & we should all be eternally greatfull. They have (untill recently) been the undisputed industry standard for Dj's & turntablists alike.
However, as good as they are, they have changed little or none since the original 1200's (over 20 years).

I would expect you to only have bee nto a few parties with Vestax - They're in thier infance compared to Technics, Theres fuckloads more Technics out there coz untill now every club, Dj & party has had Technics.

Vestax & Numark dont get thier products reliability anywhere near Technics for the same reason - They just havent been around long enough!

Me thinks Vestax & Numark have added improvenents/new features to the turntable: higher torque, Waaaay longer pitch +/-, reverse mode, variable break/start, feedback reduction, ASTS tonearm. If you do a side by side test, the Technics dont seem to cut it. D'ya getme?

Mc505 Sweet, Id kill for a Groovebox.
Peace.

zfleebin

Magpie: When you talk of torque I just dont see what significance it has. its like the action on a guitar if you have your skills down it barely effects you. If you use the smallest amount of pressure on the record that you have to you wont really recognize torque much. Now, I will agree the functions are cool on these new tables but I dont believe they sound better(which is all I care about), and the vestax tonearm is only important for Heavy Heavy scratching. Longer pitch sounds useful in a purely mixing environment but the reason that Technic's sticks to the +and- 8 is because of accuracy of the marks and dependability. As for reverse mode I dont think its very useful, try stopping the table and spinning it backwards while watching the redlight that works for the two to three seconds I would use backwards effects. Finally, Ill give you the fact that Vestax are nice but Numark is completely unreliable. Oh and the 505 is great but the XL7 is where its at.

Dire Baka

As a trance addict I have to say that I think DJs who actually create something different are musicians. If you can create something new and great it doesn't matter what you play. How many guitar chords have not been played by someone else? In the long run every musician plays something new with old music be it other songs or instruments.

ok time for me to stop rambling

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zfleebin

Pulpmind I have to disagree with you on a couple points. Sill could you help me with this by defining what a musician is.

phoenix1002

A DJ who simply plays songs at a party or something is not an artist. He or she is an entertainer.

A DJ who scratches, etc on a turntable is a musician. Instrumental musicians often will listen to foreign music to get ideas for their 'new' stuff (think Paul Simon's Graceland). They encorporate other musicians' music into their own and create a new thing. Same with a turntablist. They use other music, then mix and match and scratch etc.. to make their own music.

Just like any other musician, there can be good DJs and bad ones. The good ones are definitely musicians and artists. The bad ones are just...bad. You can't put them all in the same category, which I think some people do, sometimes.

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Magpie0001

If you scratch which I do torque is important. The torque pulls the record back to running speed when I lift mt hand off the record. Also with a high torque table under heavy scratching conditions I know that while Im scrubbing the shit outta the record on top, under my slipmat the platter os still spinning.
Try anything with a pair of belt drives & youll see what I mean.

The Vestax +/-60 is just as accurate and dependable as technics +/-8.

When I first got my Vestax tables I didnt know what to do with the backwards feature but after a bit of sperrimentin It proved to be a neat little feature that adds to a routine.

I dont think the newer tables sound better either, thats not my priority & if it was I would be listening to Cd's or something digital.

As proved above (thanks cody) I dont know shit about the Numarks, so why are they considerd unreliable????

X_cody_X

Give it 5 years and we'll find out how unreliable they really are. Like I said, I've had my Numarks for 3 years and have yet to have a problem. Like magpie0001 said, they haven't been around long enough, wait till people are using them for 8-10 years and then we'll see. Until then I'm going to go play some of my records backward at 78RPMs at a +20 pitch, any 1200 users care to join me

Bob Biter

I agree partly.

If you're not creating something new, but simply playing other people's music, you're not a musician. If you use others' music as a source of inspiration, you're a musician.

A DJ who simply scratches is not really a musician, since he/she is not creating anything (besides the scratch sound). The order of sounds may be modified, but the music still comes from somewhere other than the DJ. True, you might get a new sound, a new way of listening to the song, but much of the basis is still there, so the scratch DJ kinda teeters on the musician/non-musician fence in my book.

Aphex Twin is a musician. Kid Koala teeters.

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