Is Nirvana Overrated? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

deadbabiesrhot · 07-29-2003, 05:43 PM

Yeah the Pixies and David Bowie were Cobain's main influences, I think. He didn't really do anything original, just used his knack for pop and melody with the tricks of his favorites, and KAPOW we've got a quiet sensation.

mml · 07-29-2003, 07:40 PM

Nevermind is a total classic. I can't say I am a huge fan of the rest of their stuff but they do have an important place in music. They came up at a time when mainstream music was floundering. The 80's techno based music (which I loved and still love) had begun to wear thin and we all needed a kick in the ass. There were a number of bands that were out there doing the same kind of music, if not better (Pixies have been mentioned ), but for whatever reason, Nirvana made it big. Cobain's lyrics are powerful and often moving and the music just rocks. All this being said, I still say they are overrated. If Cobain had not killed himself and been forced to try to live up to his past it is questionable whether or not they would have continued to thrive. We will never know.

One way I like to judge a band is if they influence other bands. As someone said earlier Cobain was influenced by Bowie(pure genius) and the Pixies(one of the most underappreciated bands of the 80's and 90's) so he had good taste. Bands like Velvet Underground(stunningly amazing) and R.E.M.(still my favorite despite the many highs and lows) are so commonly mentioned as major influences that they must be considered "greats" just as the more obvious Beatles, Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac, Doors etc... are. Is Nirvana in that catagory. Time will tell, but I am not so sure.

BulletBob · 07-29-2003, 07:42 PM

Nirvana is VERY overrated. Bleach sucked, Nevermind was great, Incesticide was decent, In Utero was brilliant. I'm a fan of their music but they way kurt cobain is thought of as a god is sickening.

AnUnkind · 07-29-2003, 10:05 PM

I like them and all, but I voted overrated cause I just believe there were other bands who just had more skill and a better sound. When I look back Nirvana seemed kinda lucky to me...

benighted · 07-30-2003, 09:42 AM

i look at this in two viewpoints...one is the impact they had at the time. they helped bring grunge into the mainstream, and i'm sure they have influenced countless bands since. in this sense, i would say definitely not overrated. however, musically...kurt's songwriting...very overrated. while catchy, there really isn't much to the songs themselves. they are some of easiest ones to play, behind green day of course. they certainly have their place in history, but are far from a greatest band.

and yes, soundgarden was better =)

phlox · 07-30-2003, 02:35 PM

They're overrated, but they had that certain je ne sais quoi. Heart Shaped Box is a great song and I love the unplugged album for wallowing in heartbreak on rainy days, preferrebly in the bathtub. Cobain had a reverence and fascination with women and their bodies/reproductive systems that I find interesting and refreshing.

waxeater · 07-30-2003, 10:09 PM

No there not over rated. They were good for their time, and will remain so.

I guess we got the best of them so they will never be bettered for their era.

perripken · 07-30-2003, 10:19 PM

I think that they were a diamond in the rough when Cobain had to make a prophecy of "Brains in my cornflakes". It's too bad, mental illness is a reality! So much energy, too many drugs!

stonecurran · 07-30-2003, 11:29 PM

no nirvana r and will always will be on of the best bands ever

The Hollow · 07-31-2003, 03:29 AM

I also believe they are not/were not over-rated. That said, it'd be very easy to argue otherwise; they were quite simply a band that was greater than the sum of its parts. Just something about their music...it isn't pretentious, it's sincere and genuine, what you see (or hear) is what you get, and somehow that equates to something so much more...take for example the recently released song You Know You're Right; every time I hear it I get chills, Kurt's voice is just so powerful, I dunno...

The Foo Fighters are shit in comparison; Grohl, while talented, sickens me. He just seems to try way to hard to be a frontman. Although their music is enjoyable, it's pretty one dimensional, it's the musical equivalent to a "popcorn action flick".

Basket Case · 08-01-2003, 04:13 PM

Waaaaayyyy overated

guccilvr, I'm sorry to tell you this, but Kurt was just a pussy who wanted attention. Nevermind was a POP record, he made it to get POP stardom. Then when all his hard-core fans abandoned him , he wrote In Utero to get them back. It had nothing to do with music, he just wanted people to like him.

Nirvana's only influance was on other shitty pop-grunge bands like Creed and Nickelback.

In regards to OMFUG's comments, I have to dissagree. I think you have to listen to something a few times to see if you know really like it. I wasn't really into Led Zepplin at first listen, but I'm really starting to get into them now.
-Alot of people didn't like Abbey Road at first listen
-Alot of people loved Milli Vanilli when they came out

punkgrl1984 · 08-01-2003, 05:52 PM

I don't think Nirvana is overrated. I think they are held on a pedistal because of Kurt Cobain's death. Everytime I think to myself that maybe just maybe they are overrated I listen to a song and it gives me goosebumps. I don't think yu could overrate that.

The Hollow · 08-01-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Basket Case
guccilvr, I'm sorry to tell you this, but Kurt was just a pussy who wanted attention. Nevermind was a POP record, he made it to get POP stardom. Then when all his hard-core fans abandoned him , he wrote In Utero to get them back. It had nothing to do with music, he just wanted people to like him.

Nirvana's only influance was on other shitty pop-grunge bands like Creed and Nickelback.

Could you please stop trying to pass off your opinion as a fact? Because unless you can provide proof that Nevermind was written just to "get pop stardom", or that the only bands Nirvana influenced were "shitty pop-grunge bands like Creed and Nickelback", keep your poorly thought out opinions to yourself.

Basket Case · 08-01-2003, 08:04 PM

Whoa, chill Hollow.

I'm not trying to pass off my opinion as anything other than my opinion. Whether you like it or not, I could honestly care less, but from what I can tell, this is a forum about expression and opinion, and I think "keep your poorly thought out opinions to yourself" is a bit of a sore and close-minded approach on your part.

Basket Case · 08-01-2003, 08:18 PM

See, the difference between you and me is that I've got no beef with guccilvr, hell I don't even know know the guy (he's probably a very nice guy, you know?) My comments were not directed towards guccilvr, they were simply a counterpoint to his opinion.

At least I'm actually responding with opinion and reason (despite what you may think of they're quality) instead of just plain out bashing people for theirs.

The Hollow · 08-01-2003, 08:30 PM

Okay, fair enough, but your opinion is pretty narrow. Nevermind was not a contrived record; in hindsight it can be viewed as fairly mainstream but come on, Nirvana were not masterminds who could guage what the mainstream wanted, they just made a record which proved to be incredibly popular. They didn't plan it, and they didn't expect pop stardom. Actually, do you know anything about Nirvana or Kurt at all?

If you want an example of a wanky band that wants attention, look at Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters. He thrives on it...unlike Kurt did.

The Hollow · 08-01-2003, 08:38 PM

Okay then. Explain to me the reasoning behind your opinions, because to me it seemed like a baseless attack on Nirvana...Kurt was a pussy? Yeah, how do you justify that with reason? Sorry, but it just seems like an incredibly ignorant and jaded opinion to me.

And to prevent this from becoming heated, don't think I have some kind of grudge towards you because you dissed Nirvana; I'd argue the same points were you making baseless assumptions about shit like Creed. It's nothing personal, it just irks me when people make statements like "he just wanted people to like him". The only way you could possibly know that is if you knew him personally. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh.

dtheriault · 08-02-2003, 01:56 AM

i would say that most musicians/artists want people to like them. if they didn't they would just perform in their garage and be at one with their art form.

most bands have at least one or two attention whores why do you think some people want to sing and some want to play drums. (although phil collins begs to differ)

i still don't think they are over-rated because no one of any musical merit have nirvana anywhere near there top ten.

they were a very good band worth listening to. that's about it.

The Hollow · 08-02-2003, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtheriault
i would say that most musicians/artists want people to like them. if they didn't they would just perform in their garage and be at one with their art form.

Kurt didn't have a garage. Kurt was homeless.

32v4c · 08-02-2003, 07:02 AM

No way. Not at all. IMHO if he hadn't shot himself they would have ended up 10x bigger. I fully believe they would be the artistic equivalent of a radiohead but with significantly more pop appeal.

I do think his death and the subsequent SUPER hyping and then demise of the seattle seen opened up a lot more subgenres, but they seem a little stupid.

Basket Case · 08-02-2003, 10:38 AM

Man, I'm starting to wonder if you know anything about Nirvana. I have all of there major releases (excluding Muddy Banks and greatest hits), a read a few of his biographies and I've seen more interviews than I can count. One thing that comes up pretty damn often is how he was whipped by Courtney. It's been stated pretty often that Courtney was often the deciding factor in the in In Utero sessions. And that whole thing about stutering his way out of a fight with Axl Rose?

Truth be told, I've never known Nirvana or anyone close to them, but neither have anyone else here. I don't know for a bottom line fact that he made Nevermind just to obtain pop success. I do however know that he made Nevermind after having signed with Geffen and that between that and Bleach his music changed quite a bit. They went from grunge to little melodies played with sloppy distorted instruments. It was music the hard-core guys and the 12 years old teeny-bopper girls could enjoy together.

It was also made quite clear that Kurt wanted to regain his real hardcore fans after Nevermind, which is why he made In Utero the way he did.

I'm not claiming to know everything about Nirvana, but what I do know isn't just guessing. Besides, am I really so wrong about all of this? I really don't care if I am, but if that is the case, why not prove it by countering me with your facts and knowledge instead of just comment about how much you dislike my opinion.

I don't mind being wrong, I'd just like to know why.

View Poll Results: Is Nirvana overrated?
Yes	46	43.81%
No	55	52.38%
Other	4	3.81%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

07-29-2003, 07:40 PM	#42 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	Nevermind is a total classic. I can't say I am a huge fan of the rest of their stuff but they do have an important place in music. They came up at a time when mainstream music was floundering. The 80's techno based music (which I loved and still love) had begun to wear thin and we all needed a kick in the ass. There were a number of bands that were out there doing the same kind of music, if not better (Pixies have been mentioned ), but for whatever reason, Nirvana made it big. Cobain's lyrics are powerful and often moving and the music just rocks. All this being said, I still say they are overrated. If Cobain had not killed himself and been forced to try to live up to his past it is questionable whether or not they would have continued to thrive. We will never know. One way I like to judge a band is if they influence other bands. As someone said earlier Cobain was influenced by Bowie(pure genius) and the Pixies(one of the most underappreciated bands of the 80's and 90's) so he had good taste. Bands like Velvet Underground(stunningly amazing) and R.E.M.(still my favorite despite the many highs and lows) are so commonly mentioned as major influences that they must be considered "greats" just as the more obvious Beatles, Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac, Doors etc... are. Is Nirvana in that catagory. Time will tell, but I am not so sure. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

07-29-2003, 10:05 PM	#44 (permalink)
AnUnkind Crazy Location: INCONUS	I like them and all, but I voted overrated cause I just believe there were other bands who just had more skill and a better sound. When I look back Nirvana seemed kinda lucky to me... __________________ yeah, you SHOULD feel stupid....

07-30-2003, 10:19 PM	#48 (permalink)
perripken Now a registered fossil Location: Home of the shrinking Kodak	I think that they were a diamond in the rough when Cobain had to make a prophecy of "Brains in my cornflakes". It's too bad, mental illness is a reality! So much energy, too many drugs! __________________ And in the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln

08-01-2003, 05:52 PM	#52 (permalink)
punkgrl1984 Tilted	I don't think Nirvana is overrated. I think they are held on a pedistal because of Kurt Cobain's death. Everytime I think to myself that maybe just maybe they are overrated I listen to a song and it gives me goosebumps. I don't think yu could overrate that. __________________ [COLOR=Purple]life's what happens when you are busy making other plans -John Lennon[/COLOR]

07-29-2003, 05:43 PM	#41 (permalink)
deadbabiesrhot Loser Location: Urth	Yeah the Pixies and David Bowie were Cobain's main influences, I think. He didn't really do anything original, just used his knack for pop and melody with the tricks of his favorites, and KAPOW we've got a quiet sensation.

07-29-2003, 07:42 PM	#43 (permalink)
BulletBob Psycho Location: Rupp Arena	Nirvana is VERY overrated. Bleach sucked, Nevermind was great, Incesticide was decent, In Utero was brilliant. I'm a fan of their music but they way kurt cobain is thought of as a god is sickening.

07-30-2003, 09:42 AM	#45 (permalink)
benighted Upright	i look at this in two viewpoints...one is the impact they had at the time. they helped bring grunge into the mainstream, and i'm sure they have influenced countless bands since. in this sense, i would say definitely not overrated. however, musically...kurt's songwriting...very overrated. while catchy, there really isn't much to the songs themselves. they are some of easiest ones to play, behind green day of course. they certainly have their place in history, but are far from a greatest band. and yes, soundgarden was better =)

07-30-2003, 02:35 PM	#46 (permalink)
phlox Tilted	They're overrated, but they had that certain je ne sais quoi. Heart Shaped Box is a great song and I love the unplugged album for wallowing in heartbreak on rainy days, preferrebly in the bathtub. Cobain had a reverence and fascination with women and their bodies/reproductive systems that I find interesting and refreshing.

07-30-2003, 10:09 PM	#47 (permalink)
waxeater Insane Location: Sydney, Australia	No there not over rated. They were good for their time, and will remain so. I guess we got the best of them so they will never be bettered for their era.

07-30-2003, 11:29 PM	#49 (permalink)
stonecurran Crazy Location: australia	no nirvana r and will always will be on of the best bands ever

07-31-2003, 03:29 AM	#50 (permalink)
The Hollow Upright	I also believe they are not/were not over-rated. That said, it'd be very easy to argue otherwise; they were quite simply a band that was greater than the sum of its parts. Just something about their music...it isn't pretentious, it's sincere and genuine, what you see (or hear) is what you get, and somehow that equates to something so much more...take for example the recently released song You Know You're Right; every time I hear it I get chills, Kurt's voice is just so powerful, I dunno... The Foo Fighters are shit in comparison; Grohl, while talented, sickens me. He just seems to try way to hard to be a frontman. Although their music is enjoyable, it's pretty one dimensional, it's the musical equivalent to a "popcorn action flick".

08-01-2003, 04:13 PM	#51 (permalink)
Basket Case Upright	Waaaaayyyy overated guccilvr, I'm sorry to tell you this, but Kurt was just a pussy who wanted attention. Nevermind was a POP record, he made it to get POP stardom. Then when all his hard-core fans abandoned him , he wrote In Utero to get them back. It had nothing to do with music, he just wanted people to like him. Nirvana's only influance was on other shitty pop-grunge bands like Creed and Nickelback. In regards to OMFUG's comments, I have to dissagree. I think you have to listen to something a few times to see if you know really like it. I wasn't really into Led Zepplin at first listen, but I'm really starting to get into them now. -Alot of people didn't like Abbey Road at first listen -Alot of people loved Milli Vanilli when they came out

08-01-2003, 08:04 PM	#54 (permalink)
Basket Case Upright	Whoa, chill Hollow. I'm not trying to pass off my opinion as anything other than my opinion. Whether you like it or not, I could honestly care less, but from what I can tell, this is a forum about expression and opinion, and I think "keep your poorly thought out opinions to yourself" is a bit of a sore and close-minded approach on your part.

08-01-2003, 08:18 PM	#55 (permalink)
Basket Case Upright	See, the difference between you and me is that I've got no beef with guccilvr, hell I don't even know know the guy (he's probably a very nice guy, you know?) My comments were not directed towards guccilvr, they were simply a counterpoint to his opinion. At least I'm actually responding with opinion and reason (despite what you may think of they're quality) instead of just plain out bashing people for theirs.

08-01-2003, 08:30 PM	#56 (permalink)
The Hollow Upright	Okay, fair enough, but your opinion is pretty narrow. Nevermind was not a contrived record; in hindsight it can be viewed as fairly mainstream but come on, Nirvana were not masterminds who could guage what the mainstream wanted, they just made a record which proved to be incredibly popular. They didn't plan it, and they didn't expect pop stardom. Actually, do you know anything about Nirvana or Kurt at all? If you want an example of a wanky band that wants attention, look at Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters. He thrives on it...unlike Kurt did.

08-01-2003, 08:38 PM	#57 (permalink)
The Hollow Upright	Okay then. Explain to me the reasoning behind your opinions, because to me it seemed like a baseless attack on Nirvana...Kurt was a pussy? Yeah, how do you justify that with reason? Sorry, but it just seems like an incredibly ignorant and jaded opinion to me. And to prevent this from becoming heated, don't think I have some kind of grudge towards you because you dissed Nirvana; I'd argue the same points were you making baseless assumptions about shit like Creed. It's nothing personal, it just irks me when people make statements like "he just wanted people to like him". The only way you could possibly know that is if you knew him personally. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh.

08-02-2003, 01:56 AM	#58 (permalink)
dtheriault Psycho Location: maybe utah	i would say that most musicians/artists want people to like them. if they didn't they would just perform in their garage and be at one with their art form. most bands have at least one or two attention whores why do you think some people want to sing and some want to play drums. (although phil collins begs to differ) i still don't think they are over-rated because no one of any musical merit have nirvana anywhere near there top ten. they were a very good band worth listening to. that's about it. __________________ "Remember, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -Homer Unless you are the freakin Highlander, what is the point in learning how to fight with a sword?

08-02-2003, 07:02 AM	#60 (permalink)
32v4c Upright	No way. Not at all. IMHO if he hadn't shot himself they would have ended up 10x bigger. I fully believe they would be the artistic equivalent of a radiohead but with significantly more pop appeal. I do think his death and the subsequent SUPER hyping and then demise of the seattle seen opened up a lot more subgenres, but they seem a little stupid.

08-02-2003, 10:38 AM	#61 (permalink)
Basket Case Upright	Man, I'm starting to wonder if you know anything about Nirvana. I have all of there major releases (excluding Muddy Banks and greatest hits), a read a few of his biographies and I've seen more interviews than I can count. One thing that comes up pretty damn often is how he was whipped by Courtney. It's been stated pretty often that Courtney was often the deciding factor in the in In Utero sessions. And that whole thing about stutering his way out of a fight with Axl Rose? Truth be told, I've never known Nirvana or anyone close to them, but neither have anyone else here. I don't know for a bottom line fact that he made Nevermind just to obtain pop success. I do however know that he made Nevermind after having signed with Geffen and that between that and Bleach his music changed quite a bit. They went from grunge to little melodies played with sloppy distorted instruments. It was music the hard-core guys and the 12 years old teeny-bopper girls could enjoy together. It was also made quite clear that Kurt wanted to regain his real hardcore fans after Nevermind, which is why he made In Utero the way he did. I'm not claiming to know everything about Nirvana, but what I do know isn't just guessing. Besides, am I really so wrong about all of this? I really don't care if I am, but if that is the case, why not prove it by countering me with your facts and knowledge instead of just comment about how much you dislike my opinion. I don't mind being wrong, I'd just like to know why.