Anti-Pop-Mega-Rant. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Magpie0001 · 07-05-2003, 04:13 AM

Before we begin I want to thank DERWOOD for the inspiration for this thread. THis was originally a post for his thread:

POLL: What has been the lowest thing the pop music industry has sunk to?
but it turned into a mega-rant & I decided to give it a thread altogether. So go check that out too.

Sorry about the length & the spelling

Pop music makes me so sick that I feel like checking myself into a hospital for major spinal surgery.
Pop music makes me want to get my stomach pumped.
Pop music makes my nose bleed.

The problem with pop is that it is a business. It is created with no creativity.

Artists? they are not artists, they are performers. A happy smiling bouncy sexy package for the mind numbing spirit crushing audible diorreah churned out by men in suits to pollute the minds of young people & pay for the new Lexus.

We all agree that music is an art form. If you tell me you like pop music then as far as Im concerned you dont like music. You might as well say "I prefer to listen to white noise, or sine waves"

& dont try to feed me this "Pop is just short for popular & all musicians want to be popular" line, coz let me tell you fat-head,

Pop music is (deep breath), Easily accesable, simplistic, un-creative, non threatening, purile, disposable, anitcreative, mindless, manufactured, insipid, standardised, undaring, cliche-ridden, tedious shit Shit SHIT.

It is desinged to be non threatening, as to worm its way into your mind, to be the background themesong for your everyday actions.
It is pieced together to be non challenging, so you can do anything & mot be distracted by it, go about your daly business & have jLo, P.Diddy, PuffLo, J.Daddy, diddyLo, LoLo, or DaddyDiddy's tune drill a fucking huge hole in your head.
With the exception of "novelty" tunes pop music has a rhyme & a hook. Instantly recognisable hooks that get people humming in thier heads before they even know theyre doing it. Speech that is understandable & singalongto-able. Dont use big words or the people wont understand. Perhaps make it a little risque, show some skin to get people talking (but heaven forbid the video should get banned from some tv station & create a publicity swell.
Whats that? You hear what Im saying but still you like that tune by Jenny-Daddy? Well of course you do! You have ALL her albums! My goodness! you must be so proud of yourself, you truly are a SUPERFAN!! Allow me to pat you on the back. Youre conditioned to like it,
Did you ever think that there is other NEW music out there that isnt featured on MTV or Top ten video countdown? Ever thought that maybe there exists somewhere music that doesnt have a video?? Yes, really no video to accompany the music! Ok, relax, sit down, have a drink of water. I understand that this info has probably shook the very foundations of your precious CD collection (which you are so very proud of). But how would you find this odd video-less mystery music? Its not on MTV or Chip Cunninghams top 40 countdown??
Allow me to explain, my dilluded amigo.

MUSIC IS NOT PASSIVE!

If you let others decide what you like then you are nothing better than a sheep following a herd. But you like Daddy.J's slick production, fashionable style & easily accessable lyrical content. Its easy to relate to & its Pretty!!
If you found yourself arguing the above, then let me retort with an extended middle finger & a plain ol' "Fuck you!" Ignorance is bliss & you truly are ignorant.

I see this attitude in my own home, I put on some stuff I like while we are all sitting around drinking calimocho's. Ten minutes later whthout so much as a "may I?" someone will reach over cool as a fucking breeze & turn the volume to something rediciulous like 3. Or maybe someone will say "what is this stuff" (not even refering to it as music) can you put on something my friends & I can sing along to? So we can all feel good about liking Lo.D.LoLo's song & be part of this wonderfull little "club" that knows all the lyrics as to reinforce eachothers musical taste, giving & reciving approval & basically having a ball sucking each other off. Arent we great! I often get this one too"Hey Tiernan, do you have that song that goes[[Insert reatarded lyric]]?? NO, I dont, & if i did I would cut my legs off with a rusty spoon out of shame & self loathing, & here, you get the finger too you sheep.

Does anyone wonder why acting & singing pop songs seem to go hand in hand nowadays? Theres J.Lo.Diddy.P singing her song on MTV, stroking her ass & taking a relaxing dip in an oddly shaped swiming pool.
Change the station, OOh lookee! Its D.Daddy.Piddy-Diddy-Lo again! reflecting on what great fun she had on the set of [[insert commercial "BLOCKBUSTER" name]].
Take a look outside, THeres her face on a billboard, listen closely, somewhere in the distance you can hear her NEW single blaring from someones 6th floor apartment.
Well, bugger me! J.Jo.Jolly-dilly must be the most talented human on the planet! But wait, whats this? He face on the front of "Bored Housewife With Low Self Esteem" Magazine talking about her fab new diet & a little featurette about her new cosmetics line.
Well its decided, Dilly.Dally.Wishy-Washy.Lo must be the most amazing person on the planet! How does she find the time to do all this and "compose" such high quality music???
Look in Avril-Lo-daddy's album sleve, what do you find? a lovely airbrushed picture of her, rear end slightly raised pouting sugestively. Turn the page, another lovely picture of her sitting on a bentley, turn the page, well shit on me if it isnt another picture of her. The back of the CD? another one!! Under the CD? You guessed it! Its blatant self promotion. Fat cats learned this a long time ago. If you flood people with various media of a product they will remember. Its advertising 101. Why is George Forman selling a fucking grill? BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHO HE IS! Put Lo.Lo in a movie & you have am hour & a half ad for her album! Along with Interviews about the movie, EXCLUSIVES everywhere. (we love exclusives) sneak peeks! etc etc. so the album sales increase. Money comes in from the box office, magazines, webzines, newspapers, cosmetic companies, Tv shows want thier fucking exclusive interviews & radio stations are crucifying each other to play her song three times an hour & a huge truck of money pulls up to Jilly-Jally's house.
But the most important thing isnt the money, The brand is strenghtened which equals more sales & more money, more tie-ins and so it continues untill i cant turn my head without experiencing some sort of media related to Fuddy-Duddy's brand.

The people who take your money know better than you what you want

So, what the fuck has this to do with music????

If you like pop music you have earned my contempt.

P.s. Dont forget DERWOODS thread: POLL: What has been the lowest thing the pop music industry has sunk to?

bullgoose · 07-05-2003, 04:38 AM

WOW!!! you hit the nail right on the head; "Pop" music is Pablum, it's pretty much a case of people telling you what to like, if you don't like what's popular, there must be something wrong with you. I have NEVER listened to music just because it's popular; it has to have content and originality. It continually amazes me that with all the possibilities that music has to ffer, most people choose the crap over innovation; I guess I'll never get it, I'll just keep on listening on the fringe; that's where music is what it's supposed to be, entertaining and challenging.

Sleepyjack · 07-05-2003, 06:23 AM

well i was just about to post something about all these pop people calling themselves artists when they are merely performers. All you have described is so very true and i fully understand and concur with what you have said.
I think it is extremely to make this distinction of artists and performers. Artists create something, which requires thoughts, ideas, concepts etc while performers act something out, rather mindlessly, at times. There are is generally a conception of artists being creative, clever, thought provoking, challenging etc while performers merely act something out.

another important idea is that music is not a product, but an art. Please keep this in mind at all times. That said, pop music is manufactured like a product (like a can of coke) while other music is created. Again, manufacturing has connations of being factory made and a mindless clear cut process, which is the process of creating pop music. Creating, again, like artist has ideas/concepts etc.

another thing about pop music is the way they measure it. The music is measured by the number of sales, number of hits (ie singles) and like the place on the top 100 chart or whatever. Music is an art and can't be measured. i hate how pop music is justified by sales and thats how they rate an album, not for its own merits.

pop music and other popular brand names (clothes, shoes etc) are in some cases a bit like george orwells ideas in 1984, in that they are reducing your ability to think or express anything for yourself and you are being assimilated into one kind of culture. They limit your thoughts and ideas and you turn into a sheep.

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

i might have more to add later. great thread tho

Pyrate · 07-05-2003, 07:19 AM

Heh, I have been waiting for this with great anticipation, and it was well worth the wait.

Cheers for a great read!

Sleepyjack · 07-05-2003, 07:49 AM

heres a pretty cool scientific experiment. Although i said you shouldn't try to qauntify music before, its an interesting way of scientfically and objectivly showing somehting.
http://www.fadetoblack.com/puppetsofpop/

bullgoose · 07-05-2003, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleepyjack
heres a pretty cool scientific experiment. Although i said you shouldn't try to qauntify music before, its an interesting way of scientfically and objectivly showing somehting.
http://www.fadetoblack.com/puppetsofpop/

EVERYBODY who has been shocked (as I have) by the lack of quality in Pop music should look this over; it gives a real insight into the mental processes of idiots who defend this crap (and there's some REALLY COOL cursing in the replies from the webmasters.) I haven't laughed this hard in years.

Derwood · 07-05-2003, 10:13 AM

As my thread "inspired" this rant, I feel that I should reply.

I agree with most of your points. However the one argument I would make with you is this:

Why the fuck should you care so much what other people listen to?

I mean, my wife listens to Matchbox 20 and other bands I don't much care for, while I listen to a wider variety of music. Do I wish that she could enjoy Radiohead, Sigur Ros or Godspeed You Black Emperor? Sure. But I don't get all pissed off when she tells me how much she likes the new Justin Timberlake single. Why should I care? She is open to some of my music (she's been to several Reverend Horton Heat shows with me), so I don't complain.

So what I'm saying is this: Yes, pop music is a product created to sell the most units it can. But not everyone cares about music as much as you or I do. And not everyone should. I don't hold my own standards of music as the bar that everyone in the world should meet.

Derwood · 07-05-2003, 10:16 AM

And another point:

As insipid those people who "just like what's on the radio" are to me and you, I would have to say that people who make it a huge point to let you know how refined their musical tastes are to be just as annoying.

You see it on this message board all the time. People post topics about "best love songs" or "desert island discs", and you always have those people who post a long list of songs that they know no one else has heard of. Why? Because they think it gives them some sort of clout, that they are somehow better than everyone else. That pisses me off.

bullgoose · 07-05-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Derwood
And another point:

As insipid those people who "just like what's on the radio" are to me and you, I would have to say that people who make it a huge point to let you know how refined their musical tastes are to be just as annoying.

You see it on this message board all the time. People post topics about "best love songs" or "desert island discs", and you always have those people who post a long list of songs that they know no one else has heard of. Why? Because they think it gives them some sort of clout, that they are somehow better than everyone else. That pisses me off.

The bottom line is that music is subjective; likes and dislikes are very personal; that being said, I've noticed that people who use their subjectivity about music to listen and enjoy Pop tend not to be very B-R-I-G-H-T (I spelled it because I wouldn't want to hurt some Pop fans feelings).

brandon11983 · 07-05-2003, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magpie0001
We all agree that music is an art form. If you tell me you like pop music then as far as Im concerned you dont like music. You might as well say "I prefer to listen to white noise, or sine waves"

HA!! I love it!! This is so fucking true it makes my blood boil. Pop music is a crime against nature. Followers should be dismembered, eviscerated, have all the hairs plucked from their bodies one by one, tarred, feathered, burned at the stake, fed to raccoons, and then the raccoons should be fed to bears, and then the bears should be fed to sharks.

Fucking pop culture robot fucks.

shinji · 07-05-2003, 12:14 PM

i like pop music.

it depends on your definition of pop music. unless you define pop music by anything that isn't blues, jazz, classical, world, or folk/tribal/whatnot, then the definition becomes very unclear. what do you consider to be pop music?

your rant is attacking the industry rather than the music itself. safe, but also very unoriginal. we know all this already. besides, it is possible for someone to be in the machine, be successful, and still create good pop music.

what do you listen to? it's very possible that your favorite artists are not completely outside of the system.

dankitti · 07-05-2003, 12:37 PM

and yet, the way it was "explained" to me in the LIZ PHAIR NOOOOOOOOO thread, if liz phair wants to go pop, more power to her. um, ok.

Phaenx · 07-05-2003, 11:41 PM

You make it sound like the rest of the music industry has some sort of artistic message to get across. Maybe they do, but most musicians are also complete retards, so any message they do get across is respectively, retarded. If you want something to impress you, go ask a scholar or some crap to write you a real story.

Music is for sounding good, it doesn't matter if someone else wrote the song for another to play, if you have a problem with that you might as well go rant outside your local symphony hall. Bottom line is if you get a talented musician[s] (I say musician to get your ire up, ho ho) together and give them something to do then someone will probably like it, and thus will buy it, from the businessmen who exploit it. This is how America works, capitalism is good.

Magpie0001 · 07-06-2003, 06:05 AM

Quote:

By Derwood
Why the fuck should you care so much what other people listen to?

My G/F & I also differ greatly in musical tastes. If anyone wants to listen to Lo-Lo thats thier business & If anyone believes that J-Diddy makes creative, thought provoking, cutting edge music then they, also are entitled to thier opinion.

But get this, I listen to that runny poo! Yes, I listen to Lo.Diddy.P.P. too! I have no choice! Its everywhere Its all around me as soon as I take off my headphones. Why should I not rant about something that effects me?

Quote:

By derwood too
But not everyone cares about music as much as you or I do. And not everyone should.

Agreed. But in the minds of the (manipulated) consumers, This diluted caterwauling is the pinacle of modern musical talent.

Quote:

Also by Derwood
As insipid those people who "just like what's on the radio" are to me and you

I think it goes further than "just like whats on the radio" THese people allow the radio to decide thier opinions.
Ask one of these people why, when they turn on the radio It consistently play music they personally like? Are they so In touch that thier musical tastes reflect almost exactly what the DJ chooses? Is it just coincidence??

Quote:

You guessed it, Derwood
You see it on this message board all the time. People post topics about "best love songs" or "desert island discs", and you always have those people who post a long list of songs that they know no one else has heard of. Why?

Because someone started a thread looking for tracks similar to thier tastes. Others want to share.

Quote:

By SHinji
i like pop music.

it depends on your definition of pop music. unless you define pop music by anything that isn't blues, jazz, classical, world, or folk/tribal/whatnot, then the definition becomes very unclear. what do you consider to be pop music?

your rant is attacking the industry rather than the music itself. safe, but also very unoriginal. we know all this already. besides, it is possible for someone to be in the machine, be successful, and still create good pop music.

what do you listen to? it's very possible that your favorite artists are not completely outside of the system.

You are of course, entitled to your opinion, as I am. That said, Did you read my thread?

Quote:

Originally posted by me, in my thread, that you read

Pop music is (deep breath), Easily accesable, simplistic, un-creative, non threatening, purile, disposable, anitcreative, mindless, manufactured, insipid, standardised, undaring, cliche-ridden, tedious shit Shit SHIT.
It is desinged to be non threatening, as to worm its way into your mind, to be the background themesong for your everyday actions.
It is pieced together to be non challenging, so you can do anything & not be distracted by it, go about your daly business & have jLo, P.Diddy, PuffLo, J.Daddy, diddyLo, LoLo, or DaddyDiddy's tune drill a fucking huge hole in your head.
With the exception of "novelty" tunes pop music has a rhyme & a hook. Instantly recognisable hooks that get people humming in thier heads before they even know theyre doing it. Speech that is understandable & singalongto-able. Dont use big words or the people wont understand.

What does it matter what I listen to? Lets just say that its not pop & it's very possible that my favorite artists are completely outside of the system.
Kudos BTW for saying you like pop.

Quote:

By Phaenx
You make it sound like the rest of the music industry has some sort of artistic message to get across. Maybe they do, but most musicians are also complete retards, so any message they do get across is respectively, retarded. If you want something to impress you, go ask a scholar or some crap to write you a real story.

Music is for sounding good, it doesn't matter if someone else wrote the song for another to play, if you have a problem with that you might as well go rant outside your local symphony hall. Bottom line is if you get a talented musician[s] (I say musician to get your ire up, ho ho) together and give them something to do then someone will probably like it, and thus will buy it, from the businessmen who exploit it. This is how America works, capitalism is good.

The rest of the music industry DOES have an artistic message to get across!! WTF!
Musicians are retards? I do not have the words to express my opisition to this shallow statement.
From a pop perspective your "Bottom Line" is skewed. It goes like this:
Businessman is first, He does some market research, surveyes, brainstorming sessions, looks at the market & decides from all the info whats hot & whats not. He then auditions a few sexy young people (not necesarily musicians) that look good & are tripping over themselves to be famous. The businessman employs fashiln consultants, Image consultants, wardrobe specialists, & so on untill he has a marketable product. Publicitys next, get the sexy young thing with her new clothes, opinion, hair & makeup on the front of magazines, on tv etc etc. somewhere along the way the "musician" is brought into a studio and told what to sing. Long after shes gone to do a public appearance or practise her little dance routine the sound engineers & producers are busy transforming her four minute wailing session into a number 1 hit! & so the money rolls in as expected & everyone is happy.

Sleepyjack · 07-06-2003, 08:42 AM

i don't hate people who listen to pop music, nor do i think the rest of the music industry has some artistic message to put across. However i disagree with the practice of some comapanies to push and market music like it is a product rather than for music, and it starts to become all superficial and its all about image and perception.
The music that means anything to you, whatsoever, is the music you're still lisenting to 5-10 years later. You'll find that there are very few pop artists who can influence anyone to do this. However it is all in the eye of the beholder, but i feel that your intentions for listening to it is because you like it and that it somehow resonates with you on any level, be it just the tunes or you get some kind of spiritual awaking or something ( i love it when i get goosebumps or a chill down my spine from listening to some music, you know then that it truly does impact you).
Another reason i don't like some pop music, is that it simplies music to a very basic and shallow level, so then some people are then unwilling to accept anything else. I'll admit that i do listen to some poppy music and like to sing along to the happy chorous that tries to make you feel better about yourself, but ultimately i generally need more challenging music to fully stimulate my tastes and juices.
When it comes to music just try to keep an open mind, i feel that sometimes pop music is kinda like spray painting your third eye black (to paraphrase bill hick, poorly

).
So in summation i feel that pop music tries to simplify music too much and closes you mind to other possibliites, thats generally why i dislike what it's doing.
And please don't measure how good music is by its success, thats a measure of how well accepted and accessible it is. NO one can really measure the quality of music, as it always effects you, generally, on a personal level.

spectre · 07-06-2003, 08:48 AM

Wow, and I thought that I hated pop music.

brandon11983 · 07-06-2003, 10:12 AM

I wrote a paper about this very topic in English 101. Pop/modern music has no soul anymore. They do what they are told to do to collect a fat paycheck and get their faces plastered on lunch boxes. "Music" music is a job to them.

I urge you to turn your back on the Satan-spawned MTV generation of music. Do so and be rewarded with music that is full of life and originality. Now you will begin to see that each artist/band has their own opinions and ideals, and ways of expressing them. Music to these people is their life.

GunslingerCold · 07-06-2003, 12:07 PM

One thing about pop music is that all the bands are replaceable. If n'sync were never put together nobody would notice because there would just be 5 other teens with a multi platinum album. They could always just find another good looking teen and replace any pop muscian out there.

Phaenx · 07-06-2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Magpie0001
The rest of the music industry DOES have an artistic message to get across!! WTF!
Musicians are retards? I do not have the words to express my opisition to this shallow statement.

There are no words other than agreement =). Ever talk with some of these dorks? They're friggin stupid. As I said, they might have some sort of crude message, but it is unfortunately stupid as well.

From a pop perspective your "Bottom Line" is skewed. It goes like this:
Businessman is first, He does some market research, surveyes, brainstorming sessions, looks at the market & decides from all the info whats hot & whats not. He then auditions a few sexy young people (not necesarily musicians) that look good & are tripping over themselves to be famous. The businessman employs fashiln consultants, Image consultants, wardrobe specialists, & so on untill he has a marketable product. Publicitys next, get the sexy young thing with her new clothes, opinion, hair & makeup on the front of magazines, on tv etc etc. somewhere along the way the "musician" is brought into a studio and told what to sing. Long after shes gone to do a public appearance or practise her little dance routine the sound engineers & producers are busy transforming her four minute wailing session into a number 1 hit! & so the money rolls in as expected & everyone is happy.

Money is good, it's how capitalism works, and as we all know, it beats the hell out of communism. Also; So? Said musician had to of sung that song at least once lest she fall to the same fate as milli vanilli, and if you're going to point out that a engineer/producer enhance her music with a computer you may want to consult almost every band whose ever been in a decent recording studio as well. If in the case after this is finished it's good enough to market, people will buy it, and maybe they will like it, which is where the word "subjective" comes in. People aren't attacking your taste in music, you have no ground to stand on when you say yours is better then everyone elses, it's just about as ignorant as saying your race is better then everyone elses.

Magpie0001 · 07-08-2003, 10:10 AM

Phaenx:
I have spoke to some of them! Some of them are my friends. Are you really trying to tell me all musicians ate stupid/dorks?? Really? In my experience some musicians are the most intelligent, open minded, down to earth people Ive met. Some are deranged, passionate, eccentric, almost psychopathic (sp?). Musicians are people just like you amd me, They simply do something artisitc for a living. You cant really expect me to believe that all musicians are morons?

& YEah, Woo-Hoo for capitalism, two thumbs up, but we're not talking politics here. What Im trying to say is that the artistic factor of whats suppoused to be an ART form has been surgically removed/exorcised by the pop music industry. So, whats left?
Lastly: Saying my race is better than any other would be plain fucking stupid. Given the above (that pop music is not creative & contains no actual artistic expression) I believe I am justified in saying that pop = shit. But thats just my opinion, you can listen to it if you want.

SLEEPYJACK: Well said.

07-05-2003, 04:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
Magpie0001 Nobody Loves Me Location: Irish In Madrid	Anti-Pop-Mega-Rant. Before we begin I want to thank DERWOOD for the inspiration for this thread. THis was originally a post for his thread: POLL: What has been the lowest thing the pop music industry has sunk to? but it turned into a mega-rant & I decided to give it a thread altogether. So go check that out too. Sorry about the length & the spelling Pop music makes me so sick that I feel like checking myself into a hospital for major spinal surgery. Pop music makes me want to get my stomach pumped. Pop music makes my nose bleed. The problem with pop is that it is a business. It is created with no creativity. Artists? they are not artists, they are performers. A happy smiling bouncy sexy package for the mind numbing spirit crushing audible diorreah churned out by men in suits to pollute the minds of young people & pay for the new Lexus. We all agree that music is an art form. If you tell me you like pop music then as far as Im concerned you dont like music. You might as well say "I prefer to listen to white noise, or sine waves" & dont try to feed me this "Pop is just short for popular & all musicians want to be popular" line, coz let me tell you fat-head, Pop music is (deep breath), Easily accesable, simplistic, un-creative, non threatening, purile, disposable, anitcreative, mindless, manufactured, insipid, standardised, undaring, cliche-ridden, tedious shit Shit SHIT. It is desinged to be non threatening, as to worm its way into your mind, to be the background themesong for your everyday actions. It is pieced together to be non challenging, so you can do anything & mot be distracted by it, go about your daly business & have jLo, P.Diddy, PuffLo, J.Daddy, diddyLo, LoLo, or DaddyDiddy's tune drill a fucking huge hole in your head. With the exception of "novelty" tunes pop music has a rhyme & a hook. Instantly recognisable hooks that get people humming in thier heads before they even know theyre doing it. Speech that is understandable & singalongto-able. Dont use big words or the people wont understand. Perhaps make it a little risque, show some skin to get people talking (but heaven forbid the video should get banned from some tv station & create a publicity swell. Whats that? You hear what Im saying but still you like that tune by Jenny-Daddy? Well of course you do! You have ALL her albums! My goodness! you must be so proud of yourself, you truly are a SUPERFAN!! Allow me to pat you on the back. Youre conditioned to like it, Did you ever think that there is other NEW music out there that isnt featured on MTV or Top ten video countdown? Ever thought that maybe there exists somewhere music that doesnt have a video?? Yes, really no video to accompany the music! Ok, relax, sit down, have a drink of water. I understand that this info has probably shook the very foundations of your precious CD collection (which you are so very proud of). But how would you find this odd video-less mystery music? Its not on MTV or Chip Cunninghams top 40 countdown?? Allow me to explain, my dilluded amigo. MUSIC IS NOT PASSIVE! If you let others decide what you like then you are nothing better than a sheep following a herd. But you like Daddy.J's slick production, fashionable style & easily accessable lyrical content. Its easy to relate to & its Pretty!! If you found yourself arguing the above, then let me retort with an extended middle finger & a plain ol' "Fuck you!" Ignorance is bliss & you truly are ignorant. I see this attitude in my own home, I put on some stuff I like while we are all sitting around drinking calimocho's. Ten minutes later whthout so much as a "may I?" someone will reach over cool as a fucking breeze & turn the volume to something rediciulous like 3. Or maybe someone will say "what is this stuff" (not even refering to it as music) can you put on something my friends & I can sing along to? So we can all feel good about liking Lo.D.LoLo's song & be part of this wonderfull little "club" that knows all the lyrics as to reinforce eachothers musical taste, giving & reciving approval & basically having a ball sucking each other off. Arent we great! I often get this one too"Hey Tiernan, do you have that song that goes[[Insert reatarded lyric]]?? NO, I dont, & if i did I would cut my legs off with a rusty spoon out of shame & self loathing, & here, you get the finger too you sheep. Does anyone wonder why acting & singing pop songs seem to go hand in hand nowadays? Theres J.Lo.Diddy.P singing her song on MTV, stroking her ass & taking a relaxing dip in an oddly shaped swiming pool. Change the station, OOh lookee! Its D.Daddy.Piddy-Diddy-Lo again! reflecting on what great fun she had on the set of [[insert commercial "BLOCKBUSTER" name]]. Take a look outside, THeres her face on a billboard, listen closely, somewhere in the distance you can hear her NEW single blaring from someones 6th floor apartment. Well, bugger me! J.Jo.Jolly-dilly must be the most talented human on the planet! But wait, whats this? He face on the front of "Bored Housewife With Low Self Esteem" Magazine talking about her fab new diet & a little featurette about her new cosmetics line. Well its decided, Dilly.Dally.Wishy-Washy.Lo must be the most amazing person on the planet! How does she find the time to do all this and "compose" such high quality music??? Look in Avril-Lo-daddy's album sleve, what do you find? a lovely airbrushed picture of her, rear end slightly raised pouting sugestively. Turn the page, another lovely picture of her sitting on a bentley, turn the page, well shit on me if it isnt another picture of her. The back of the CD? another one!! Under the CD? You guessed it! Its blatant self promotion. Fat cats learned this a long time ago. If you flood people with various media of a product they will remember. Its advertising 101. Why is George Forman selling a fucking grill? BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHO HE IS! Put Lo.Lo in a movie & you have am hour & a half ad for her album! Along with Interviews about the movie, EXCLUSIVES everywhere. (we love exclusives) sneak peeks! etc etc. so the album sales increase. Money comes in from the box office, magazines, webzines, newspapers, cosmetic companies, Tv shows want thier fucking exclusive interviews & radio stations are crucifying each other to play her song three times an hour & a huge truck of money pulls up to Jilly-Jally's house. But the most important thing isnt the money, The brand is strenghtened which equals more sales & more money, more tie-ins and so it continues untill i cant turn my head without experiencing some sort of media related to Fuddy-Duddy's brand. The people who take your money know better than you what you want So, what the fuck has this to do with music???? If you like pop music you have earned my contempt. P.s. Dont forget DERWOODS thread: POLL: What has been the lowest thing the pop music industry has sunk to? __________________ Music is my first love & It will be my last. Last edited by Magpie0001; 07-05-2003 at 04:15 AM..

07-05-2003, 04:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
bullgoose Insane Location: Central N.Y.	WOW!!! you hit the nail right on the head; "Pop" music is Pablum, it's pretty much a case of people telling you what to like, if you don't like what's popular, there must be something wrong with you. I have NEVER listened to music just because it's popular; it has to have content and originality. It continually amazes me that with all the possibilities that music has to ffer, most people choose the crap over innovation; I guess I'll never get it, I'll just keep on listening on the fringe; that's where music is what it's supposed to be, entertaining and challenging. __________________ "If I had it to do all over, I'd do it all over you."

07-05-2003, 07:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
Pyrate Psycho Location: London, CorBlimeyLand	Heh, I have been waiting for this with great anticipation, and it was well worth the wait. Cheers for a great read! __________________ ?

07-05-2003, 10:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	As my thread "inspired" this rant, I feel that I should reply. I agree with most of your points. However the one argument I would make with you is this: Why the fuck should you care so much what other people listen to? I mean, my wife listens to Matchbox 20 and other bands I don't much care for, while I listen to a wider variety of music. Do I wish that she could enjoy Radiohead, Sigur Ros or Godspeed You Black Emperor? Sure. But I don't get all pissed off when she tells me how much she likes the new Justin Timberlake single. Why should I care? She is open to some of my music (she's been to several Reverend Horton Heat shows with me), so I don't complain. So what I'm saying is this: Yes, pop music is a product created to sell the most units it can. But not everyone cares about music as much as you or I do. And not everyone should. I don't hold my own standards of music as the bar that everyone in the world should meet. __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel Last edited by Derwood; 07-05-2003 at 10:17 AM..

07-05-2003, 10:16 AM	#8 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	And another point: As insipid those people who "just like what's on the radio" are to me and you, I would have to say that people who make it a huge point to let you know how refined their musical tastes are to be just as annoying. You see it on this message board all the time. People post topics about "best love songs" or "desert island discs", and you always have those people who post a long list of songs that they know no one else has heard of. Why? Because they think it gives them some sort of clout, that they are somehow better than everyone else. That pisses me off. __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

07-05-2003, 06:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	well i was just about to post something about all these pop people calling themselves artists when they are merely performers. All you have described is so very true and i fully understand and concur with what you have said. I think it is extremely to make this distinction of artists and performers. Artists create something, which requires thoughts, ideas, concepts etc while performers act something out, rather mindlessly, at times. There are is generally a conception of artists being creative, clever, thought provoking, challenging etc while performers merely act something out. another important idea is that music is not a product, but an art. Please keep this in mind at all times. That said, pop music is manufactured like a product (like a can of coke) while other music is created. Again, manufacturing has connations of being factory made and a mindless clear cut process, which is the process of creating pop music. Creating, again, like artist has ideas/concepts etc. another thing about pop music is the way they measure it. The music is measured by the number of sales, number of hits (ie singles) and like the place on the top 100 chart or whatever. Music is an art and can't be measured. i hate how pop music is justified by sales and thats how they rate an album, not for its own merits. pop music and other popular brand names (clothes, shoes etc) are in some cases a bit like george orwells ideas in 1984, in that they are reducing your ability to think or express anything for yourself and you are being assimilated into one kind of culture. They limit your thoughts and ideas and you turn into a sheep. War is peace Freedom is slavery Ignorance is strength i might have more to add later. great thread tho

07-05-2003, 07:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	heres a pretty cool scientific experiment. Although i said you shouldn't try to qauntify music before, its an interesting way of scientfically and objectivly showing somehting. http://www.fadetoblack.com/puppetsofpop/

07-05-2003, 12:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
shinji Upright	i like pop music. it depends on your definition of pop music. unless you define pop music by anything that isn't blues, jazz, classical, world, or folk/tribal/whatnot, then the definition becomes very unclear. what do you consider to be pop music? your rant is attacking the industry rather than the music itself. safe, but also very unoriginal. we know all this already. besides, it is possible for someone to be in the machine, be successful, and still create good pop music. what do you listen to? it's very possible that your favorite artists are not completely outside of the system.

07-05-2003, 12:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
dankitti Crazy	and yet, the way it was "explained" to me in the LIZ PHAIR NOOOOOOOOO thread, if liz phair wants to go pop, more power to her. um, ok. __________________ Aw' little girl, there ain't no time To wash yer stinky hand Go 'head 'n' roll over I'm goin' in you again In you again In you again In you again... --Frank appa I Have Been In Yo

07-05-2003, 11:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	You make it sound like the rest of the music industry has some sort of artistic message to get across. Maybe they do, but most musicians are also complete retards, so any message they do get across is respectively, retarded. If you want something to impress you, go ask a scholar or some crap to write you a real story. Music is for sounding good, it doesn't matter if someone else wrote the song for another to play, if you have a problem with that you might as well go rant outside your local symphony hall. Bottom line is if you get a talented musician[s] (I say musician to get your ire up, ho ho) together and give them something to do then someone will probably like it, and thus will buy it, from the businessmen who exploit it. This is how America works, capitalism is good. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-06-2003, 08:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	i don't hate people who listen to pop music, nor do i think the rest of the music industry has some artistic message to put across. However i disagree with the practice of some comapanies to push and market music like it is a product rather than for music, and it starts to become all superficial and its all about image and perception. The music that means anything to you, whatsoever, is the music you're still lisenting to 5-10 years later. You'll find that there are very few pop artists who can influence anyone to do this. However it is all in the eye of the beholder, but i feel that your intentions for listening to it is because you like it and that it somehow resonates with you on any level, be it just the tunes or you get some kind of spiritual awaking or something ( i love it when i get goosebumps or a chill down my spine from listening to some music, you know then that it truly does impact you). Another reason i don't like some pop music, is that it simplies music to a very basic and shallow level, so then some people are then unwilling to accept anything else. I'll admit that i do listen to some poppy music and like to sing along to the happy chorous that tries to make you feel better about yourself, but ultimately i generally need more challenging music to fully stimulate my tastes and juices. When it comes to music just try to keep an open mind, i feel that sometimes pop music is kinda like spray painting your third eye black (to paraphrase bill hick, poorly ). So in summation i feel that pop music tries to simplify music too much and closes you mind to other possibliites, thats generally why i dislike what it's doing. And please don't measure how good music is by its success, thats a measure of how well accepted and accessible it is. NO one can really measure the quality of music, as it always effects you, generally, on a personal level.

07-06-2003, 08:48 AM	#16 (permalink)
spectre Junkie	Wow, and I thought that I hated pop music. __________________ "Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head

07-06-2003, 10:12 AM	#17 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	I wrote a paper about this very topic in English 101. Pop/modern music has no soul anymore. They do what they are told to do to collect a fat paycheck and get their faces plastered on lunch boxes. "Music" music is a job to them. I urge you to turn your back on the Satan-spawned MTV generation of music. Do so and be rewarded with music that is full of life and originality. Now you will begin to see that each artist/band has their own opinions and ideals, and ways of expressing them. Music to these people is their life. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

07-06-2003, 12:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
GunslingerCold Banned Location: IL	One thing about pop music is that all the bands are replaceable. If n'sync were never put together nobody would notice because there would just be 5 other teens with a multi platinum album. They could always just find another good looking teen and replace any pop muscian out there.

07-06-2003, 01:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Originally posted by Magpie0001 The rest of the music industry DOES have an artistic message to get across!! WTF! Musicians are retards? I do not have the words to express my opisition to this shallow statement. There are no words other than agreement =). Ever talk with some of these dorks? They're friggin stupid. As I said, they might have some sort of crude message, but it is unfortunately stupid as well. From a pop perspective your "Bottom Line" is skewed. It goes like this: Businessman is first, He does some market research, surveyes, brainstorming sessions, looks at the market & decides from all the info whats hot & whats not. He then auditions a few sexy young people (not necesarily musicians) that look good & are tripping over themselves to be famous. The businessman employs fashiln consultants, Image consultants, wardrobe specialists, & so on untill he has a marketable product. Publicitys next, get the sexy young thing with her new clothes, opinion, hair & makeup on the front of magazines, on tv etc etc. somewhere along the way the "musician" is brought into a studio and told what to sing. Long after shes gone to do a public appearance or practise her little dance routine the sound engineers & producers are busy transforming her four minute wailing session into a number 1 hit! & so the money rolls in as expected & everyone is happy. Money is good, it's how capitalism works, and as we all know, it beats the hell out of communism. Also; So? Said musician had to of sung that song at least once lest she fall to the same fate as milli vanilli, and if you're going to point out that a engineer/producer enhance her music with a computer you may want to consult almost every band whose ever been in a decent recording studio as well. If in the case after this is finished it's good enough to market, people will buy it, and maybe they will like it, which is where the word "subjective" comes in. People aren't attacking your taste in music, you have no ground to stand on when you say yours is better then everyone elses, it's just about as ignorant as saying your race is better then everyone elses. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-08-2003, 10:10 AM	#20 (permalink)
Magpie0001 Nobody Loves Me Location: Irish In Madrid	Phaenx: I have spoke to some of them! Some of them are my friends. Are you really trying to tell me all musicians ate stupid/dorks?? Really? In my experience some musicians are the most intelligent, open minded, down to earth people Ive met. Some are deranged, passionate, eccentric, almost psychopathic (sp?). Musicians are people just like you amd me, They simply do something artisitc for a living. You cant really expect me to believe that all musicians are morons? & YEah, Woo-Hoo for capitalism, two thumbs up, but we're not talking politics here. What Im trying to say is that the artistic factor of whats suppoused to be an ART form has been surgically removed/exorcised by the pop music industry. So, whats left? Lastly: Saying my race is better than any other would be plain fucking stupid. Given the above (that pop music is not creative & contains no actual artistic expression) I believe I am justified in saying that pop = shit. But thats just my opinion, you can listen to it if you want. SLEEPYJACK: Well said. __________________ Music is my first love & It will be my last.