Another "Check out his guitar skills" thread.

[SSJTWIZTA]

all i have to say is:

Holy Shit!

[Craven Morehead]

dude gets on it, doesn't he?

[Derwood]

i've never been that impressed with "shredding". yeah, the guy is skilled, but he also has 18 layers of reverb on his guitar (which nicely covers up for sloppy play). just not my cup of tea

[Martian]

Originally Posted by Derwood

i've never been that impressed with "shredding". yeah, the guy is skilled, but he also has 18 layers of reverb on his guitar (which nicely covers up for sloppy play). just not my cup of tea

Exactly. There's more to good musicianship than playing fast. The shredding in and of itself isn't really that big a deal to me.

He does make good use of pinch harmonics and double stops, though.

[SSJTWIZTA]

well, i wish i could play that well.

Edit:
If you want more skill than shreding, check out my older thread on Drifting.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=120946

[Martian]

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

well, i wish i could play that well.

Clearly this means you need to practice more, then. Nobody picks up a guitar and starts shredding right away and I firmly believe that it's a skill that anyone can learn (I believe this is to be true of music in general, lest the metal guitarists think I'm picking on them). The only thing he has that you don't is hours of practice behind him.

[allaboutmusic]

I agree - speed and precision are simply a function of repetition and acquired muscle memory and dexterity.

[SSJTWIZTA]

Originally Posted by Martian

Clearly this means you need to practice more, then. Nobody picks up a guitar and starts shredding right away and I firmly believe that it's a skill that anyone can learn

your pretty much stating the obvious there. but your right, i do need to practice WAY more.

The thing is, ive been playing guitar for 3-4 years. its just that ive never picked it up and said to myself "you know what CJ, its time to learn how to shred."

maybe today is the day i should learn something new and get some major practice in.

[allaboutmusic]

If you want to be able to really shred, you have to be prepared to spend hours doing boring, repetitive exercises that will improve your control and efficiency. There isn't really much of a way around it unfortunately, and the better you get, the longer it will take to improve further.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

your pretty much stating the obvious there. but your right, i do need to practice WAY more.

The thing is, ive been playing guitar for 3-4 years. its just that ive never picked it up and said to myself "you know what CJ, its time to learn how to shred."

If it's that obvious then why did I have to say it? Wishing you could do that implies that you don't think you can do that. You're creating a barrier between some Brazilian (?) dude who can shred and yourself. Aside from the fact that you don't (to my knowledge, anyway) speak Portuguese he's not doing anything you can't. And really you could do that too if you wanted to, but that's getting a bit too tangential.

You've never learned how to shred. Fair. 3 years isn't really all that long on the instrument, so maybe you just haven't gotten around to it. I've been playing a guitar for twice as long as you have and I still have a lot to learn. Or maybe you haven't attempted to learn precisely because you've created that barrier. You've created this 'amazing guitarist' group and excluded yourself from it, mentally walling yourself off from the very people you aspire to emulate. Maybe.

Or, maybe it's just not your style either. Why do you want to learn to shred? Do you think it would improve your craft? Do you feel a deep passion for the style? Or is it just something that you figure good guitarists should be able to do? I don't know how to do it and I have no intention of learning it. It's not that I'm incapable of it at all, but more that it's just not a technique I'm interested in. It doesn't fit my preferred style and I can't imagine ever using it, plus it just doesn't captivate me. So why would I bother? My time is much better spent learning other techniques that suit me better.

None of this is intended to detract from those who do put the time and effort in. Quite the opposite, really; I recognize how much effort it takes to acquire the ability and I also recognize that for me as a musician the benefit isn't worth the cost. Maybe without even really thinking about it you've come to the same conclusion.

[Plan9]

...but playing a guitar like that makes most white people happy-stupid and makes young girls take their panties off.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by Crompsin

...but playing a guitar like that makes most white people happy-stupid and makes young girls take their panties off.

I have found in the past that playing a guitar any way other than badly makes young girls take their panties off.

[Punk.of.Ages]

Even having an intense lack of talent, but the ability to make something simple sound good will get the girls. That's why I do punk rock.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by Punk.of.Ages

Even having an intense lack of talent, but the ability to make something simple sound good will get the girls. That's why I do punk rock.

I thought it was because you only knew three chords?

[Punk.of.Ages]

Originally Posted by Martian

I thought it was because you only knew three chords?

Three chords, a shit load of distortion to cover my sloppiness, and a big ass mohawk. That's all I need.

A beer would be nice too.

[belezabaub]

If music be the food of love shredding is masterbation. Who is cunt features playing with in the video??? Himself.
No I'm just being a asshole. He's quite talented, really difficult technique to do well. He does it very well. I don't think I could ever do it.

[allaboutmusic]

If you want to use a guitar to get the girls, you really don't need to practice shred... learn to sing a song and accompany yourself, competently, and you're there.

[SSJTWIZTA]

Originally Posted by Punk.of.Ages

Even having an intense lack of talent, but the ability to make something simple sound good will get the girls. That's why I do punk rock.

haha im into the punk thing as well. (as if you couldnt tell by my avatar)

and as for martian. you didnt have to say it. i just thought id be nice and agree, pretty much.

i dont really feel the need to shred at all, all i was getting at was that i need to practice more and maybe get a little more talent.

i just thought id share the thread above because i was impressed..thats all.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

and as for martian. you didnt have to say it. i just thought id be nice and agree, pretty much.

i dont really feel the need to shred at all, all i was getting at was that i need to practice more and maybe get a little more talent.

i just thought id share the thread above because i was impressed..thats all.

There's a distinct possibility I went a little pitbull on you there... I get annoyed by people who treat other people like some kind of demi-god for doing something they don't know how to. Most people just can't figure out how to get out of their own way and they have a habit of bitching about it, especially on the internet. It irritates me. So you'll have to forgive me if I came on a bit strong.

If you play punk you don't need to know how to shred. If you know how to tune your instrument properly, you're a step ahead of most punk guitarists.

And hey, it could always be worse. At least you're not a drummer.

"What do you call a drummer with half a brain?"

"Gifted."

[SSJTWIZTA]

Originally Posted by Martian

There's a distinct possibility I went a little pitbull on you there... I get annoyed by people who treat other people like some kind of demi-god for doing something they don't know how to. Most people just can't figure out how to get out of their own way and they have a habit of bitching about it, especially on the internet. It irritates me. So you'll have to forgive me if I came on a bit strong.

If you play punk you don't need to know how to shred. If you know how to tune your instrument properly, you're a step ahead of most punk guitarists.

And hey, it could always be worse. At least you're not a drummer.

"What do you call a drummer with half a brain?"

"Gifted."

ha! nice one.

man, if you know any good websites where i could find something to improve my abilities, pm me or post it man. it would be greatly appreciated. i mean, the only scales i know are open and the ionian g.

yeah, i know how to tune a guitar. 5-0 5-0 and so on untill you hit the 4-0 on the G.

but seriously, i think the old thread i posted on "drifting" is pretty damn neat. i would love to learn to do that, too bad i dont own an acoustic.

[allaboutmusic]

What's an open scale?

If you want to learn all the scales and chords, learn the CAGED system - it's a great way of understanding how chords and scales fit all over the fingerboard of the guitar. You can apply it to major chords, minor chords, all the different 7, 9, 11, 13 and altered chords too, and fit the scales around them, starting with major and minor pentatonics, chord arpeggios, major and minor scales and working up to modes of the major and minor scales.

Lots of resources on the Net, just do a search.

If you want to expand your chord voicing vocabulary, there's a great video on Youtube describing the Berklee system - I think it's called 1200 chords in 6 minutes or something.

[Punk.of.Ages]

Originally Posted by Martian

If you play punk you don't need to know how to shred. If you know how to tune your instrument properly, you're a step ahead of most punk guitarists.

I have an electric tuner!

[SSJTWIZTA]

heh, im on 56k...but ill still check it out.

caged system huh? let me look that up.

[Punk.of.Ages]

[Martian]

The CAGED system is a method of describing the major chords available in the open position and the scale patterns based on them. The five major chords that can be played in the open position with standard tuning are C, A, G, E and D - hence, CAGED. These chords form the chord shapes, which can be moved up and down the neck in barre chords to play any of the 12 major chords. Therefore, if you know how to play the major scales based on these shapes you can also play any of the 12 major scales.

I'd love to point you to some resources, except that I'm self-taught on guitar in the most literal sense of the term - I picked up a guitar one day and began applying my knowledge of music learned elsewhere to it. I've picked up bits and pieces along the way, but I can't really point you towards any online lessons or tutorials because I've never used any.

A G Ionian scale is just another name for a G Major scale. When you say an 'open scale,' I assume you're referring to an E Major scale (tonic note is the open E string) although really there's a plethora of scales that can be played in open position.

Most of guitar playing is repetition. Good hand technique (both fretting and picking, even though a lot of players seem to forget about their right hand) is primarily learned through practicing. Same goes for hand speed - drilling scales and arpeggios is the best way by far of improving both speed and precision for either hand. Aside from that, playing along to different music gives you a good sense of how to put it all into practice, rather than just practicing all this stuff in a vacuum. Pick your favourite band, grab some tabs and off you go.

Re: the ukulele video, that's pretty damn hardcore. Ever seen what the fret spacing is like on one of those things?

[Fly]

Originally Posted by Martian

And hey, it could always be worse. At least you're not a drummer.

"What do you call a drummer with half a brain?"

"Gifted."

DUDE!!!!!


awww man Martian...........and i thought you were a nice guy.

that's it.........I ain't layin' no drum tracks down for you now buddy.................*fuckin' drummer jokes*



....plus i can't cuz you haven't sent me your stuff yet.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by Fly

DUDE!!!!!


awww man Martian...........and i thought you were a nice guy.

that's it.........I ain't layin' no drum tracks down for you now buddy.................*fuckin' drummer jokes*



....plus i can't cuz you haven't sent me your stuff yet.

Aww, Fly, don't be that way. You know I love ya man, but that drummer joke was just too good not to share.

I'm about to hit the sack, but you can expect my material to be in the our shared folder on MSN by the time you get up tomorrow.

[allaboutmusic]

Originally Posted by Martian

Re: the ukulele video, that's pretty damn hardcore. Ever seen what the fret spacing is like on one of those things?

It's not too bad if you get a tenor (I have two). The concerts are smaller, and the sopranos are tiny!

[pig]

hmmm...chalk me up as another who is less impressed by all the electronic hu-ha. i see someone already put up another youtube vid: for my money, and yes i am biased, but my jaw drops when i see something like this:

[SSJTWIZTA]

Originally Posted by Martian

I assume you're referring to an E Major scale (tonic note is the open E string) although really there's a plethora of scales that can be played in open position.

you would be assuming correctly.

yeah ive been teaching myself from the start as well, just not very well. i need to get on these so called "arpeggios"

[allaboutmusic]

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

you would be assuming correctly.

yeah ive been teaching myself from the start as well, just not very well. i need to get on these so called "arpeggios"

I'd recommend using the CAGED system to do this in all positions. It will seriously make you a much better lead guitar player.

[jth]

While what he's playing seems impressive, I can promise it's not really that big of a deal. Shred players spend a lot of time practicing repeated patterns alone in a room with a drum track, and that's all fine and well, everyone who is a serious instrumentalist has to do that. However I know from experience working as a teacher with people with Shred chops that they lack a lot of fundamental knowledge of what it is even that they are playing and if asked to do anything else with it they are pretty much hopeless.

The Speed is not impressive, the only thing I find impressive about Shred is the right hand technique which ussually is pretty crazy, this guy is sloppy. However he's young and did pretty much nail what he wanted except for the harmonized lines with the pre-recorded tracks you can hear he was not locking up with his over dub. This is a classic thing for Shred cats, they just can't hang playing with other people.

As for speed, it's easy to get speed. I can play faster then this guy and I don't shred, and I don't use distortion to smooth everything out. Then again, I'm a jazz musician where speed is even more sought after then in Shred Rock I would say.

I have several friends who are seriously crazy shredders (who put this guy to shame) and they admit that what they're playing is self indulgant stunt guitar. It is impressive even to a lot of serious musicians when it is really pulled off *ie DragonForce* but the tenacity it takes to truly master the technique is something most people cannot focus on long enough to become the next Satch or whomever in terms of pure chops.

Feeling with Shred Chops, Eric Johnson really is the guy imo

What do you call a drummer who's girlfriend just dumped him?

homeless

[Martian]

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

you would be assuming correctly.

yeah ive been teaching myself from the start as well, just not very well. i need to get on these so called "arpeggios"

Arpeggios are a way of breaking down triads into their fundamental notes. They can be used musically to give a part more movement and melodic content than playing straight chords does. Being essentially a triad picked apart, they're simply the tonic, third, fifth and octave of a given scale.

When you play an E Major scale, how do you do it? 0 2 4 0 2 4? We'll assume that for now, in which case it would look like this:

---------------------
---------------------
---------------------
--------------1-2----
-------0-2-4---------
0-2-4----------------

Which is E F# G# A B C# D# E (the E Major scale). To make a chord out of that we take the first note (the tonic), the third note (the mediant) and the fifth note (the dominant). 1 3 5. In the case of the scale above we can't play the tonic and the mediant simultaneously, because they're on the same string and we tend to play our chords with open voicing anyway. When we play an E Major chord we play it E B E G# B E. G# is the mediant in the scale and is played on the third string, first fret (which is important to know when you get into minor chords, suspended chords and the like).

If we're playing an arpeggio, however, we don't need to play the first and the third note simultaneously anyway. So we'll play an arpeggio as E(tonic) G# B E(octave) B G# E(tonic). In terms of fingering, that looks like this:

--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
--------2-----------
-----2----2---------
0-4---------4-0-----

You can also take it through different octaves if you really want to. A 20 or 22 fret guitar gives us three octaves in E major in standard tuning without modifying any notes (ie, bending). At any rate, we can get into that later. This is your primer on arpeggios.

Does that all make sense?

[allaboutmusic]

If you really want to hear ridiculous shred chops from someone who can really play outrageously complex lines, check out Shawn Lane (RIP). I can't listen to his stuff for too long, but it is impressive. His ballad playing has great feel too.

[SSJTWIZTA]

--------------------------------0-1-3-
-------------------------0-1-3-----
--------------------0-2------------
-------------0-2-3-----------------
-------0-2-3---------------------
0-1-3-----------------------------

thats actually how i play it.

you know, when i started this thread i didnt expect to leard so much..kick ass.

and yes, it actually makes perfect sence. that apregio sounds rather standard, like ive heard it before.

[pig]

correct me if i'm wrong, but that looks like playing the c-form in open position, a-la the CAGED system. in the key of C. move that up, and you go A form, then G, etc. you can do a lot of little tricks inside that/those for dexterity, but i've been slack about it for a while. :P

ok - not moving it up, but rather finding the same notes a few frets up and substituting as necessary.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by pig

correct me if i'm wrong, but that looks like playing the c-form in open position, a-la the CAGED system. in the key of C. move that up, and you go A form, then G, etc. you can do a lot of little tricks inside that/those for dexterity, but i've been slack about it for a while. :P

ok - not moving it up, but rather finding the same notes a few frets up and substituting as necessary.

Indeed, that's in C major. If we want to get really technical it'd be E Phrygian (I think, I have trouble keeping the names of the modes straight sometimes) through two octaves with an added third on top (since you go up to the G). That's if we want to get technical, which I'm not sure we do. The scale outlined in my post is a single octave of E Major (aka E Ionian), since I wanted an easy example. You can get a C Major out of yours by going between two C's (such as 5th string third fret and second string first fret), A Minor (Aeolian) by going between two A's (5th string open and 3rd string second fret), etc.

That's a natural minor, by the way. Melodic and harmonic minors are another discussion.

Also, if you're interested, the notes you're playing there are E F G A B C D E F G A B C D E F G, in that precise order. You start on an E, so it's an E-derived scale and it's Phrygian because everything's natural; you're playing it with no sharps and flats and that makes it Phrygian in E. If you were to start it on the G it'd be Mixolydian, D would be Dorian, etc. Modal stuff gets a bit more complex though and there's a whole whack of scale theory that you have to at least have a basic idea of before you can really understand it, so if the above paragraph doesn't make much sense then don't sweat it.

I'm not familiar enough with the CAGED system to know if any of this was what pig was talking about. I just do my own thing.

[Punk.of.Ages]

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

you know, when i started this thread i didnt expect to leard so much..kick ass.

Yeah, this has turned into a really good thread. I'm learning quite a bit myself.

[pig]

martian: well, in my own words - you're playing all the notes from the c-scale, in the section of the fretboard where you'd be playing the 'c-form' of c. pop up to the 3rd fret or so, pick out the same notes, more or lesss (starting from the g on the top string), and you're going through the a-form/position of c. up to the 5th fret, and you're in the g-form...7th, you're e-form, and around 10th fret you're in d...i.e. c-a-g-e-d. of course, if you start this whole thing on the g-note of the top string, but pick out the notes as though you were in the c-form position, you're playing the c-form of the d-scale. you can pretty much find all the different phrygian/myxlodian/etc within those forms by starting the scales on different positions. granted, it's been years since i actually did it, but i really should start back to that type of practice. hell, i can barely remember this shit anymore..you're tinkling little bells that are rusty rusty rusty. if i recall correctly, there wasi/is another popular fret-board organization approach called the 'zone approach'...i remember a lot of people saying that learning them both and understanding how/why they were different was pretty useful...i never did it. of course.

[percy]

It is something to see people do this but it isn't my ball of wax. Great motivation, talent and patience to become that proficient. Certainly hope he took a moment or two to learn some chords, their inversions and some chord progressions.

At least it sounded as if he was sweeping actual arpeggios rather than sweeping finger exercises that have nothing to do with the chord progression being played over (see youtube for more examples than you care to know).