89transam

It would be on a 97 Firebird. The engine has 70k, should I be good for another 50K ?

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choskins

Definitely, the motor is strong enough. It is a workhorse. Of course, the issue is how it was maintained.

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Scorps

I want to know who was the smart guy who said lets put a V6 into an american muscle car

Nimisys

will run forever, and since it has the aluminum intake and not the plastic one, that too will last forever. however your differential pinion seal will not. for some reason the 4th gen f-bodies eat those things like candy.

DEI37

What those guys said. the GM 3800 V6 is an incredible engine. While it has no business in a F-body, you'll still get good fuel mileage, and it'll be fun enough to drive, and reliable.

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Stare At The Sun

Indeed.

89transam

Thats what i figure. I drive a little 4 banger contour right now and would like to get a little more power. Now all I have to do is look at insurance costs..

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DEI37

As far as insurance goes, it'll be more, but it shouldn't bite you too hard as it's a V6. Is it auto or manual?

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89transam

5 speed. I dunno though, fourth gen f bodies are awfully ugly.

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ibis

3.8's are great motors, and for their size their rather powerfull.

With the 5 speed I'd say go for it.

I'm actually considering the same thing.

primal

Compared to what?
GM 3.8L (Camaro,Grand Prix,etc) 200HP
Nissan 3.5L (Altima,Maxima,350Z) 250-287HP
Mazda 3L (6s) 220HP
Honda 3L (Accord) 240HP
Chrysler 2.7L (Sebring) 200HP

I couldn't find a single engine that was bigger than 3.8L with less horsepower. In fact I could only find 3 V-6s with less than 200 Horsepower.

I think the GM 3.8L is built to last. But it is one on the most inefficient engines currently being produced. Even the supercharged version only makes 240-260HP and the cars that use it are not great performers. According to motor trend the Pontiac GTP with the 260HP 3.8L does 0-60 in 6.9 seconds and runs the quarter mile in15 seconds. The Altima with a 245HP 3.5L got 0-60 in 5.9 and a quarter mile time of 14.5

Nimisys

for being an overhead valve engine, its output is not to bad, espiccaly witht he supercharger. as for the cars performance look at the wieght of the car its sitting in. drop it into a fiero and you will not complain.

DEI37

Yup, was just going to point that out. It's lacking variable valve timing, multiple camshafts, multiple intake and exhaust valves...yeah, it does well. It's fuel efficient as well. The Maxima doesn't even manage 30mpg on the highway...the Grand Prix GT/GTP will.

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primal

Ok let's compare cars and consider weight:


Pontiac Supercharged GTP3.8L 260HP 3583lb 0-60 6.9
Nissan Maxima SE 3.5L 260HP 3478lb 0-60 6.5
Honda Accord V-6 3L 240HP 3384lb 0-60 6.5
95'Chevy Camaro 3.8L V-6 200HP ????? 0-60 7.4
95'Nissan Maxima3L V-6 190HP ????? 0-60 6.6

All of those number were taken from Motor Trend. I'm not sure that a camaro v-6 is worth the insurance premium when practacilly every V-6 car on the road is faster with the same or better gas milage.

I couldn't compare it to another overhead valve engine because I don't know of another overhead valve V-6 that is still in production. So that should tell you something. With that being said Overhead valve engines usually have a low-end torque advantage when compared to overhead cam engines of the same displacement. So you would expect 0-60 times to be better for the 3.8L considering that it's bigger and OHV. I just think that this engine is an antique. OHV doesn't have to die just look at the LS1 & LS2 from the corvette. I just think that GM has not made improvements to the 3.8Liter for 15 years.

primal

Let's look at Gas Mileage:
Maxima 3.5L 20City 29Highway
Pontiac Grand Prix GTP 18City 27Highway
Honda Accord V-6 21City 30Highway


I'm not sure why listing all of the things that the 3.8L doesn't have makes it a good engine. I mean it's not a dog or anything, but compared to most engines out there it would end up on the low end of the spectrum. In fact here's a challenge, in Pontiac's GTP comerical they claim that the GTP is the fastest car in it''s class. Name 2 Sports sedans (that you consider to be in the same class as the GTP) that are slower than the GTP in either quarter mile or 0-60 times. Or name any v-6 car with 3 or more liters of displacement that is slower than a car of the same class which uses the GM 3.8L. Let's limit this to cars made from the year 2000 til now.

Scorps

Damn I want the Pontiac...is that the Firebird? or sorry the Firehawk?

primal

The firebird V-6 should be as fast as the camaro I listed before 0-60 in about 7.4 seconds. The supercharged GTP I listed is the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Comp G. The Firehawk was a kickass V-8. It was very fast. A 95 Firehawk does 0-60 in 5.3 Seconds

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Scorps

Oh damn.....I remember getting to drive one of them Grand Prix, hell didn't know it was supercharged until we got it back to the shop and opened the hood!

DEI37

Those fuel mileage numbers are EPA numbers. Real world numbers are actually higher. Most of our Maxima (any year, really, but specifically 2003 & newer) customers DREAM of 28mpg. Especially with an automatic. We hear 26mpg on the highway as high numbers. My old 1987 Olds Delta 88 did better than that. By a fair bit. There are SOME modified supercharged GM 3800 V6 engines out there STILL getting 30+mpg, while making more power. Since those are in the minority, I'll stick with the stock piece where cruising at 67-70mph still nets 31mpg or so on the highway. I've had friends with these cars, so I know the numbers are real

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primal

If you check out this Link you'll see Maxima owners reporting 28-30 on the Highway.
I don't think that looking at gas mileage of the different cars really reflects much about the engines. Becuase Mileage is dependant on so many other variables (Drag, Accessory load, Tire contact patch area, Tire Inflation pressure, Gearing, Quality/content of fuel,etc...).

My biggest problem with the 3.8L is that even supercharged it's a low horsepower engine for it's size. I think that since the GTP is considered a sports sedan that most potential buyers would be interested in performance. I don't think many people will mind giving up 1-2MPG to get 35-55 more HP.It was just announced that VQ 3.5L engine in the 2005 Infiniti G35 coupe will make 295HP . That's without a supercharger. GM's 3.8L is just falling farther behind, it doesn't have the technology to compete. If you look at the non supercharged version compared to the smaller nissan engine then it's a 95HP difference almost 50% more horsepower while still maintaning a nice even torque curve. Personally I'm hoping that the engine from the CTS will replace the 3.8
Also just FYI here is aLINK to Ward's 10 Best engines of 2003. They call the VQ "the best V-6 engine the auto industry's ever seen.".

Also remember that I gave a list of V-6's that are outperforming the 3.8L. I'd like to see a list of current V-6 engines (of any displacement) that the 3.8L outperforms. Anybody? I think you'll find that most of them will be from smaller automakers like Hyundai, Daewoo, Kia, etc. I think that it will be hard to find many <200HP V-6's being built by any of the big American, Japenese, or German Automakers. After all there are a numberof 190-200Hp 4 cylinder engines now.