Tex

In the market for a car in the sub 15k range...I've narrowed it down to the '01-'03 VW Golf's and '01-'04 Honda Civic's.

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

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Stare At The Sun

Well Tex;

What are you looking for, speed, looks, reliability, creature comforts?

Give us some more info!

BoCo

Civic.

I have a '95 hatchback that still runs like new. It has 215/40-17s on it along with Koni adjustable shocks and I can't break the tires loose in a corner even when I try something stupid.

Also: 40mpg!

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krwlz

Just bought a brand new civic man, I love it. Go civic.

silent_jay

I like both cars equally, but are you talking about a 2 or 4 door Golf, or a 2 or 4 door Civic?I like the 2 door Golfs better than the 4 doors and I like the 4 door Civics better than the 2 doors. Many of my friends have had Honda's and they all love them. So either way you will be getting a good quality car Civic or Golf.

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forseti-6

I have never owned a golf, but I have owned a Jetta and a Civic. I must say, I never had any problems with the Civic. The Jetta? Tons. I couldn't imagine the Golf's maintenance being all that different with the Jetta.

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madsenj37

Have you looked at the mazda 3s (previously known as the protege)? They are solid cars, I drive them a lot for my work.

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brandon11983

I vote for the Golf. German cars rock, they're built very solidly. The 2 dr GTI is a blast to drive too.

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SiphonX

civic is a great value... but the golf performs better and is a lot safer. it's up to you, both are great cars.

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yakimushi

I've driven both Civic and Golf, I'd have to say that a Golf with a VR6 is killer fun to drive.

The Civic wasn't bad either... but my vote would stay with the Golf if it had a VR6.

floydthebarber

As much as I dislike both of your choices, I'd go with the Golf...only because it has a cool name.

The only reason I dislike them is everybody and their dog has one.

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powerclown

Depends whats important to you in a car...Hondas are proven to run forever, though, and do it cheaply...

twilightfoix

i'd say the golf

phathom

The golf. I got a 92 Passat. 203k+ miles on it and its still running like new. A couple problems with it here and there but with any car at 200k+ miles what do you expect? German cars are solid, Passats are the only car still made in Germany though by VW so they are made better, everything else got switched over to Mexico so they arent being made as well anymore. One thing though get a manual not automatic transmission. Automatic transmissions on VWs are way problematic.

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wrongfullyaccuzd

You know, it's really easy to get sick of people saying stuff like this. I had a similar question once and am actually still going through the process on deciding and all I heard was negative responses like "Everyone has them, especially Civics, therefore I don't like them and shame on you for getting such a common car." The fact is some people don't know enough about cars to get an old fix-me-up, and more importantly, some people don't have enough money or simply don't want to spend so much as to avoid getting an more "uncommon" car. Civics are good solid cars, who cares if they're in abundance, it's for a reason.
The point is, lay off statements like this. If someone starts a thread asking for advice, make a point to give positive advice for the question at hand, and use what they give you, or don't say anything. Saying you dislike both options is not constructive for them or anyone.

Now, to answer the question.
I'd go with the Civic, Tex. I've heard from a couple friends with VWs that they have some maintenance problems. Not very serious, but compare that to Civics that have virtually none. Based on Honda reputation I would say go with the Civic. I like the new coupes, but do you? I agree with Stare, you should tell us more about what you're looking for.

shakran

Civic will be easier to work on as well. I was looking at the engine of a Jetta yesterday. The intake manifold goes over the valve cover, then curves down and back into the head. The spark plugs are underneath that curve. So if you wanna change the spark plugs, you get to disassemble the intake manifold. Stupid, stupid design.

powerclown

So true! It seems almost like every single part on Hondas is designed to be easily accessible and worked on by a layman with a normal set of tools. Ive had 4 Hondas, and they were so easy to work on. Ive put in headers, added sway bars, shocks/springs, radios, steering wheels, speakers. Everything was a piece of cake with the factory shop manuals, which are also works of art in their simplicity and thoroughness. For comparison Ive worked on Jeeps and a '95 Z28 and its like theyre purposely making things needlessly complicated. The illustrations are confusing and garbled, and it takes 5 pages to explain the same thing it takes one page in a Honda manual.

Great point shakran.

jujueye

Golf. The Jetta cannot even be compared, as they are made in Mexico and are amazingly problematic. The Golf is built in Germany, and has a better history. I also think the Golf is far more fun to drive than the Civic by a long shot.

shakran

it's the same people designing the engine for both cars.

VW's are notoriously more problematic than Hondas.

As for fun to drive, that depends on the driver. And the year of the Civic. I'll pit a 91 Civic Si up against a Golf (any year) in the twisties any day of the week.

Stare At The Sun

Gotta love when the original poster still has not responded yet....

pocon1

I have heard that the VW engines are as reliable as Hondas, but they tend to have problems with the electrical system. Things like window motors not working and such. Not deal breakers, but some annoying issues nonetheless

shakran

you've heard right. The engines themselves are fairly solid - it's working on them that's a royal bitch. My philosophy is that an engine (not counting exotics and specialized sports cars here) is pretty much junk as far as I'm concerned if I can't get to the routine maintenance items easilly. If I have to spend 45 minutes taking an intake manifold apart just so I can change the damn spark plugs, I'm gonna be pissed. Plus there's the issue of now you have to buy a new gasket every time you change the plug wires. Pointless.

Electrical is another story. They are prone to electrical problems, which can be a boatload of fun to diagnose and repair.

Tex

I'm still here. Just taking in everyone's opinions. Basically, the order of importance for me goes like this....

Looks > Performance > Cost

I've heard german cars are excellent, and that's the main reason I'm considering the Golf. Right now, however, I'm leaning towards the civic...

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powerclown

This is just my opinion, but I think both companies have superior engineers and automobile engineering, but in different price ranges. It would be hard to say one is *better* than the other. Volkswagen obviously, a massive, massive company, Honda likewise. I believe Honda/Acura is second to none in its attention to detail, ergonomically (interior) and mechanically. Even though theyre not into building high-end automobiles, the cars they do build are usually the best in the class or near so.

But you mentioned your order of importance. Looks are subjective, you either like the civic or the golf its a personal choice. Performance is a little more objective, you can look at numbers, and same with cost. I also think that because Honda doesnt have a high end car, it can build its range (low-mid price) of cars (Civics, Accords, Minivans etc..) to a very high standard. I wouldnt say the same about Volkswagens. I also wouldn't consider a Golf to be an example of 'fine German engineering' in the same way a Mercedes, Audi or Porsche would. You gotta shell out the big bucks to experience that sort of thing.

Stare At The Sun

Well, if you are looking into honda, why not consider getting a Prelude, it has great looks, real good performance, and is a honda, so will be a good car.

Check em out man...

shakran

Oh I dunno, i'd say the TL qualifies as a high-end sedan, and the NSX certainly is a high end sportscar.

Some would argue that the TSX is a budget high end sedan as well.

vapusforever

German cars ALL THE WAY, go with a golf or gti!!!

m0j0

golf is a better looking car and more fun but civic is cheaper to maintain.

stingc

I've never driven a VW, but if you want "German engineering," you might as well get an older Mercedes. My Benz is 18 years old, and it drives far better than any Civic could hope to. If you want to drive a car forever and never worry about it, buy the Honda. If you want to enjoy driving, then forget it. You can get some very nice cars for $15k.

shakran

Depends on what you want in a car. That 18 year old Benz of yours isn't gonna be a sporty little street legal go-kart like a civic can be. If you like cruising it's fine, but if you're into snappy handling, the Benz isn't exactly the best choice.

forseti-6

That's exactly my experience with my jetta. In the *almost* 2 years I've owned my jetta, I have had the infamous "window" problem, some emissions sensor, and some sensor that tells me the RPMs all broken. All except the RPM sensor were rather harmless. The RPM sensor was extremely problematic because I have an automatic. The car didn't know how many RPMs it was going, so it would never go out of first. If I manually shifted it to second, it would drop right back down to first. To make matters worse, some damage was incurred on my way to the shop to have it checked out. APPARENTLY the engine was redlining the whole way. Wasn't a pretty site (or smell).

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powerclown

The TL is probably the best car in its price range, but I wouldn't call it a high-end sedan by any stretch.

Aren't the high end sedans BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, Lexus, Jaguars, etc..??? I would categorize high-end sedans starting at $50,000.

In the auto industry, $35,000 for any car puts it in the mid-range category.

stingc

Sure, a Benz isn't a sportscar, but it does handle very nicely (not quick, but precise, controllable, and with high grip). Get a BMW if you want a sporty feel, or an actual sports car if you really want performance. Sorry, but I don't like civics. They feel like cheap toys to drive. Maybe you could mod one to be ok, but you could mod anything enough if you wanted.

Atomic Pinkie

I had the windows and the o2 sensor

that was on my 1999.5 Jetta

My new 2003 Jetta GLI has been flawless thus far

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whoizzy

GOLF GTI, NO QUESTION! A stock Honda Civic Si has between 160-170Hp a GTI has between 180-200+Hp, plus if you get a 1.8T you car will respond better to modifications because of the turbo. Or if you supercharge a VR6, the outcome would be an embarassment to any Honda enthusiast.

shakran

if you supercharge a D16A6 (91 Honda civic/crx motor) you'll be pretty damn fast too.

I always hate people that say "this car will kill that other car if you modify the hell out of it and the other car is stock."

Well. . Duh! Take your supercharged VR6 and run it against some guy with a 88-91 CRX who has a supercharged B18-C5 in there (it's been done) and you'll have your ass handed to you.

Point is, it doesn't sound like the original poster wants to have to put a lot of time and effort into the car. He probably doesn't want to have to install and tweak a supercharger.

supafly

I'd go for the golf. Their parts are less expensive (in europe).

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Scorps

Take them both for test drives and make sure you go on the freeway, give them the touchier test.

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merkerguitars

I'll second anything Shakran says about a VW product....one of my best friends is a certified VW mechanic...hey says they suck to work on. I believe it's the passat where you have to pull the engine to change the o2 sensor

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floonine

Civic '92, 140k miles, still runnin like a champ.

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